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Posted: 11/28/2016 7:09:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Side plates equal a decent amount of added weight and restricted movement (and expense if your armor isn't being issued to you) for not a lot of added armor. Cool guys in the .mil who can get away with it rarely wear them; regular guys who aren't in the military see what cool guys do and copy them.
That's my take; guys smarter than me will probably be along shortly. |
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Posted: 11/28/2016 8:19:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I've got level 4 side plates in my issued vest. Level 3 steel plates front & rear.
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Posted: 11/28/2016 8:33:51 PM EDT
[#3]
I train a lot with armor, even easy jogs with the hound(see avatar). Side plates add just enough weight to make me feel slow.
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Posted: 11/28/2016 8:43:08 PM EDT
[#4]
No side plates for me. Front and back plates already retain too much heat. Side plates would be fucking miserable.
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Posted: 11/28/2016 10:24:01 PM EDT
[#5]
I do, first in a JPC, then an AVS. But 6x6s not the monster 7x8s.
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Posted: 11/28/2016 10:27:00 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No side plates for me. Front and back plates already retain too much heat. Side plates would be fucking miserable. Er. I've ridden a bicycle in Iraq w/ full kit on. Just had to move the side plates up a notch. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/28/2016 10:43:22 PM EDT
[#7]
I run the soft armor side plates from Crye precision in both of my JPCs. Issued swimmer cut plates for the front and back.
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Posted: 11/29/2016 10:19:42 AM EDT
[#8]
This is just my $0.02 but most civilians tend to copy whatever the military is doing, in particular the run fast high speed operational operators like Seals, Rangers, etc... These guys tend to wear plate carriers, with just front and back plates and avoid wearing side plates and soft armor as it adds too much weight for them to be highly mobile doing things such as jumping out of planes, swimming, etc... These guys also usually have the element of surprise when in combat, they strike and are long gone before the enemy realizes what happened. Very different than the infantry grunt who is told to dig a hole and defend a position and may be taking fire from multiple attackers at multiple different angles and locations and dealing with things like artillery fire.
Personally my SHTF gear includes soft armor and side plates. My reasoning is that 97% of shootings (FBI Statistic) in the US are committed with pistols, so I want as much soft armor as possible. The plates are just there for the off chance someone is sporting a rifle. Side plates do add a lot of weight, but Im not likely going to be on the offensive, nor will I be running up the desert mountains of Afghanistan in 100+ degree heat. In the extremely unlikely event Ill need body armor It will probably be a bump in the night, defending myself against the crack head who is trying to steal my DVD collection. There are no places to take cover in a home, the only thing between you and the criminals bullet is what armor you wear so I want as much of it as possible. If I ever think the weight is too much it takes all of 10 seconds to remove them from my carrier. IMO, people should look less to navy seals for inspiration for civilian body armor setup and more towards SWAT, and those who regularly deal with shootout in the narrow hallways and confided spaces of a single family residential home, because this is the most likely scenario a civilian will encounter. |
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Posted: 11/29/2016 11:16:36 AM EDT
[#9]
I don't, should you probably, but it's added weight. No side plates equals more ammo.
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Posted: 11/29/2016 11:28:22 AM EDT
[#10]
I don't wear them. I didn't wear them in Afghanistan either. I did have them in Iraq, but I didn't get any say in the matter then.
I don't like the extra weight. |
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Posted: 11/29/2016 12:02:50 PM EDT
[#11]
I don't wear them now, and didn't wear them in Iraq. Less weight=more better.
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Posted: 11/29/2016 2:20:38 PM EDT
[#12]
I've considered side plates, but I keep thinking of the weight. Having said that, for me it would be for a SHTF scenario, defending the home front. I am not an operator, nor pretend to be. For me it's about what works best for me and what I think could happen. As one poster mentioned, it takes no time to remove them so part of me is saying, "I'd rather have it and not need it then not have it and need it".
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Posted: 11/29/2016 4:36:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Side plates equal a decent amount of added weight and restricted movement (and expense if your armor isn't being issued to you) for not a lot of added armor. Cool guys in the .mil who can get away with it rarely wear them; regular guys who aren't in the military see what cool guys do and copy them. That's my take; guys smarter than me will probably be along shortly. My Level IV 6x6 plates are like 0.7lbs. They aren't really "restrictive" being that small. |
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Posted: 11/29/2016 7:13:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Personally, I like side plates, at least for my use. My armor is usually going to get used in more of a SWAT entry team manner (as another poster here alluded to), I.E. for clearing my house, business, etc. I'm not going to be doing 20 mile ruck marches wearing my armor, and if I do have to do something like that it's easy to just slip my side plates out and leave them wherever if I don't need them. I prefer to look at my armor not as being permanently fixed the way it is forever, but as being scalabe to the situation. If I need less armor/weight, I remove armor. If I need more protection, I add armor. Simple.
Thats my non-professional take on it, anyway. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 12:30:35 AM EDT
[#15]
odds of getting shot in the side are minimal especially with the arms, the front and back plates protect
the most vulnerable and vital parts of the body. it is more profitable to be more mobil and quicker then have side protection IMO |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 12:53:33 AM EDT
[#16]
I have them, but I don't wear them. They live in my IOTV, which I never wear either. My plate carrier has some IIIa side coverage.
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Posted: 11/30/2016 9:18:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My Level IV 6x6 plates are like 0.7lbs. They aren't really "restrictive" being that small. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Side plates equal a decent amount of added weight and restricted movement (and expense if your armor isn't being issued to you) for not a lot of added armor. Cool guys in the .mil who can get away with it rarely wear them; regular guys who aren't in the military see what cool guys do and copy them. That's my take; guys smarter than me will probably be along shortly. My Level IV 6x6 plates are like 0.7lbs. They aren't really "restrictive" being that small. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 10:29:15 AM EDT
[#18]
I have soft plates.
They're handgun rated. Not heavy enough to be annoying. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 10:36:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you do in your armor? Genuinely asking. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Side plates equal a decent amount of added weight and restricted movement (and expense if your armor isn't being issued to you) for not a lot of added armor. Cool guys in the .mil who can get away with it rarely wear them; regular guys who aren't in the military see what cool guys do and copy them. That's my take; guys smarter than me will probably be along shortly. My Level IV 6x6 plates are like 0.7lbs. They aren't really "restrictive" being that small. Internet commando, but I pull them out (and this will sound stupid) when cleaning or doing laundry around the house so I can feel what it is like moving around, bending over, lifting things, etc. Taken it to the range a few times, no problem shouldering after I got used to it. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 11:28:47 AM EDT
[#20]
That actually makes great sense. People think dry-firing is stupid too, but it's excellent practice. When I setup my PC I spent a lot of time in my living room making sure I could reach everything easily, and put it back.
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Posted: 11/30/2016 12:02:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Internet commando, but I pull them out (and this will sound stupid) when cleaning or doing laundry around the house so I can feel what it is like moving around, bending over, lifting things, etc. Taken it to the range a few times, no problem shouldering after I got used to it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Side plates equal a decent amount of added weight and restricted movement (and expense if your armor isn't being issued to you) for not a lot of added armor. Cool guys in the .mil who can get away with it rarely wear them; regular guys who aren't in the military see what cool guys do and copy them. That's my take; guys smarter than me will probably be along shortly. My Level IV 6x6 plates are like 0.7lbs. They aren't really "restrictive" being that small. Internet commando, but I pull them out (and this will sound stupid) when cleaning or doing laundry around the house so I can feel what it is like moving around, bending over, lifting things, etc. Taken it to the range a few times, no problem shouldering after I got used to it. I do the same. Also go for jogs and flay fetch with the dog. Its a nice way to get used to your gear without going tot he range or taking a class. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 4:14:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Internet commando, but I pull them out (and this will sound stupid) when cleaning or doing laundry around the house so I can feel what it is like moving around, bending over, lifting things, etc. Taken it to the range a few times, no problem shouldering after I got used to it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Side plates equal a decent amount of added weight and restricted movement (and expense if your armor isn't being issued to you) for not a lot of added armor. Cool guys in the .mil who can get away with it rarely wear them; regular guys who aren't in the military see what cool guys do and copy them. That's my take; guys smarter than me will probably be along shortly. My Level IV 6x6 plates are like 0.7lbs. They aren't really "restrictive" being that small. Internet commando, but I pull them out (and this will sound stupid) when cleaning or doing laundry around the house so I can feel what it is like moving around, bending over, lifting things, etc. Taken it to the range a few times, no problem shouldering after I got used to it. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 5:26:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
odds of getting shot in the side are minimal especially with the arms, the front and back plates protect the most vulnerable and vital parts of the body. it is more profitable to be more mobil and quicker then have side protection IMO Kind of, but not really. Most people on this forum are used to looking at the anatomical diagrams posted showing where armor should cover. If you see the body from the side you quickly learn any hit from the side will likely penetrate multiple organs, but a front shot usually only gets one. Are you less likely to be shot in the side? I don't know, but the repercussions are greater. This is from someone who wouldn't normally wear side armor, but I understand the implications. |
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Posted: 11/30/2016 10:27:29 PM EDT
[#24]
The side plates in my plate carrier attatch to the inside of the cummerbund via velcro, so I flip flop on wearing them.
If im ridiculously heavy carrying a lot of extra shit, I pull them off. If I think I can spare the weight, i'll leave them on. I try to wear them as much as I can but they are at the top of the list of things to pull based on my loadout. The M320 stock is actually 1st.. 
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Posted: 11/30/2016 10:32:37 PM EDT
[#25]
we were issued the new plate carrier system in 08? the one you pull the cord and it falls apart for medics.. we were issued side plates but I didnt use them, way to heavy
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Posted: 12/3/2016 6:25:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Deployed now and they are in my PC. I'd prefer not to wear them but we have to. For whatever reason my leadership is big on that. We can do and wear whatever we want as long as we are wearing side plates. I honestly don't mind them though, they sit high enough that they are out of the way and I don't lose a ton of mobility with them.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:31:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Had a discussion re: side plates at work tonight. Like I said earlier I'm the thread, I have them in both my plate carrier and in my armor carrier. For what I do, we wear armor carriers for most entries. My side plates are personal purchase. I think side plates are more important than the DAPs we are required to wear on most entries. Again, it's your call what you wear, but the 6x6 plates are very manageable.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 4:48:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had a discussion re: side plates at work tonight. Like I said earlier I'm the thread, I have them in both my plate carrier and in my armor carrier. For what I do, we wear armor carriers for most entries. My side plates are personal purchase. I think side plates are more important than the DAPs we are required to wear on most entries. Again, it's your call what you wear, but the 6x6 plates are very manageable. I agree about the damn DAPs, we are required to wear then on entries as well and it's fucking retarded. We don't have side plates on our armor carriers, but I'd much rather trade the DAPs for them any day of the week. I have side plates in my plate carrier I keep in the front of my patrol car, and they aren't bad at all. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 7:28:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree about the damn DAPs, we are required to wear then on entries as well and it's fucking retarded. We don't have side plates on our armor carriers, but I'd much rather trade the DAPs for them any day of the week. I have side plates in my plate carrier I keep in the front of my patrol car, and they aren't bad at all. Eh, we had a female killed a few years ago. Shot at a side angle. Went in the shoulder/arm opening area of the vest. DAP may have stopped it. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:01:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Thanks guys.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:30:27 PM EDT
[#31]
I have the LTC 6” x 6” PE Side Plates from SKD Tactical.
They weigh just 1 lb. each (Rated to 7.62 NATO (single round hit). I don't notice the extra weight. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 11:27:22 PM EDT
[#32]
I think DAPS are more important than side plates. If I'm adding armor, I would add DAPS first. Stats show that shooters expose their head, hands/arms (to produce their weapon), and upper torso the most. Those are the parts that are shot the most. If you take a side torso hit, most likely it'll come from a threat you didn't realize was there (which is certainly common in a war zone), less often encountered stateside. If you're wearing armor stateside, usually you know where the threat is concentrated. Same for structure entry.
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Posted: 12/5/2016 1:50:13 AM EDT
[#33]
I have soft side panels. Don't use them though.
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Posted: 12/5/2016 10:30:08 AM EDT
[#34]
I wore soft armor panels in the cummerbund while I was deployed, but no side plates. I prefer to be fast and flexible (and not as god-awfully hot). The only time I would consider wearing them would be if I was being tasked as a vehicle gunner so that I wouldn't have to be humping a ruck and other associated equipment. Now that I'm an NCO the chances of that happening are slim.
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Posted: 12/5/2016 12:25:41 PM EDT
[#35]
as a platoon leader in an elite chairborne commando unit, i'll say i dont run side plates.
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Posted: 12/6/2016 5:18:06 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree about the damn DAPs, we are required to wear then on entries as well and it's fucking retarded. We don't have side plates on our armor carriers, but I'd much rather trade the DAPs for them any day of the week. I have side plates in my plate carrier I keep in the front of my patrol car, and they aren't bad at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Had a discussion re: side plates at work tonight. Like I said earlier I'm the thread, I have them in both my plate carrier and in my armor carrier. For what I do, we wear armor carriers for most entries. My side plates are personal purchase. I think side plates are more important than the DAPs we are required to wear on most entries. Again, it's your call what you wear, but the 6x6 plates are very manageable. I agree about the damn DAPs, we are required to wear then on entries as well and it's fucking retarded. We don't have side plates on our armor carriers, but I'd much rather trade the DAPs for them any day of the week. I have side plates in my plate carrier I keep in the front of my patrol car, and they aren't bad at all. I assume you're speaking of the soft Kevlar shoulder wrap design when referring to DAPs? You could try a hard armor substitute instead, provided your department will allow it. I find they are less obstructive than their soft armor counterparts. HASP I have a set, and they are good to go, so long as you secure them properly to your shoulder straps. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 11:20:03 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I assume you're speaking of the soft Kevlar shoulder wrap design when referring to DAPs? You could try a hard armor substitute instead, provided your department will allow it. I find they are less obstructive than their soft armor counterparts. HASP I have a set, and they are good to go, so long as you secure them properly to your shoulder straps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Had a discussion re: side plates at work tonight. Like I said earlier I'm the thread, I have them in both my plate carrier and in my armor carrier. For what I do, we wear armor carriers for most entries. My side plates are personal purchase. I think side plates are more important than the DAPs we are required to wear on most entries. Again, it's your call what you wear, but the 6x6 plates are very manageable. I agree about the damn DAPs, we are required to wear then on entries as well and it's fucking retarded. We don't have side plates on our armor carriers, but I'd much rather trade the DAPs for them any day of the week. I have side plates in my plate carrier I keep in the front of my patrol car, and they aren't bad at all. I assume you're speaking of the soft Kevlar shoulder wrap design when referring to DAPs? You could try a hard armor substitute instead, provided your department will allow it. I find they are less obstructive than their soft armor counterparts. HASP I have a set, and they are good to go, so long as you secure them properly to your shoulder straps. I would pick up a set of those but it just seems like it would take a long time to attached those or any DAPs/shoulder armor. When it comes to home defense (which is the most likely use for body armor as a civilian) you only have a precious few seconds to toss on a vest and grab a firearm when you hear the window break or the alarm go off. Messing around with shoulder armor probably isnt the best use of your time. |
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Posted: 12/6/2016 1:17:23 PM EDT
[#38]
No, I would think something like the old IBA would be ideal for home defense.
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Posted: 12/17/2016 4:33:43 PM EDT
[#39]
I have 10"x6" IIIa soft armor in the cummerbunds of my PIG PC.
My primary threat would be from a long range rifle so I run level IV ceramics backed by IIIA backers front and rear. When I'm wearing the PC I'm usually standing or sitting around in the middle of the desert running FLIR, so unseen threats at my sides or rear are very unlikely but I like the added protection from ricochets or spall. I do deal with heat but since I'm not rucking very much or very far it's tolerable. |
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Posted: 12/21/2016 3:51:13 AM EDT
[#40]
When I was issued armor for work (DOD contract pilot), we were issued level IIIa soft and III plates. We were not issued side plates, but the soft armor did wrap around the sides. We were technically required to wear both, but most didn't after a while due to weight and mobility concerns. Later hires were issued two sets of armor, one through the company I worked for, the other was issued at CRC by the military. Those did get a set of side plates.
I initially wore both, then cut down the soft armor to fit a different carrier (issued cut was too large, way to big). Eventually I ditched the soft armor altogether (pistols weren't a common threat). I considered adding 1 side plate to put on my side that faced the outside of the aircraft. Never got around to it. Others ditched the hard armor, or only wore front. Some only wore soft armor. To me, if you are in a job where you have accepted the fact that you may be shot at, you are accepting some level of risk. It's up to you to decide to what level you are going to mitigate that risk. |
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Posted: 12/30/2016 3:22:10 PM EDT
[#41]
I wear the thin, sand/peach colored MSAP 6x6 plates, and don't find them to be terribly objectionable when adjusted correctly, so I wear them most of the time.
When adjusted incorrectly, they can dig into your ribs or your hips (or both) and be extremely painful and uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time. I'm not a huge fan of the big, thick 7x8 ESBI plates, though, those extra dimensions and thickness pretty much kill it for me, and I'd probably rather wear no side plates than to wear ESBIs, though again, I've been using the MSAPs instead for a while now. FWIW, I agree with many who are basically saying that more people should wear them than do, and that includes most military personnel--but this is very much dependent on mission (or "mission"). ~Augee |
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Posted: 1/1/2017 11:36:45 AM EDT
[#42]
I bought a set of the 6x6's back when I originally set up my rig. I use them... never.
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Posted: 1/1/2017 12:09:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
odds of getting shot in the side are minimal especially with the arms, the front and back plates protect the most vulnerable and vital parts of the body. it is more profitable to be more mobil and quicker then have side protection IMO I read the Army AAR that led to side plates being issued. 25% of KIA in Iraq and Afghanistan were the result of hits to the side of the torso where there was no SAPI coverage |
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Posted: 1/1/2017 12:32:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think DAPS are more important than side plates. If I'm adding armor, I would add DAPS first. Stats show that shooters expose their head, hands/arms (to produce their weapon), and upper torso the most. Those are the parts that are shot the most. If you take a side torso hit, most likely it'll come from a threat you didn't realize was there (which is certainly common in a war zone), less often encountered stateside. If you're wearing armor stateside, usually you know where the threat is concentrated. Same for structure entry. DAPs stop frag and (maybe) pistol rounds. Side plates stop rifle rounds. I don't recall the stats, but extremity hits from pistol rounds have a ridiculously high survival rate. A bisecting shot from a rifle, not so much. I'm not saying you shouldn't wear your DAPs for LE entries, I'm just saying if I had to pick one, I'd go side plates. Most LE teams place too much focus on defensive capabilities (ballistic shields, throat protectors, neck protectors, nut flaps, DAPs, ballistic shin guards) and not enough focus on shooting & tactics. Armor is like airbags and seat belts. They won't protect you from bad driving, and armor won't protect you from bad tactics. |
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Posted: 1/1/2017 12:50:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most LE teams place too much focus on defensive capabilities (ballistic shields, throat protectors, neck protectors, nut flaps, DAPs, ballistic shin guards) and not enough focus on shooting & tactics. {MEME} Training Day "BOOM!" {/MEME} Well put. |
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Posted: 1/1/2017 1:33:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The side plates in my plate carrier attatch to the inside of the cummerbund via velcro, so I flip flop on wearing them. If im ridiculously heavy carrying a lot of extra shit, I pull them off. If I think I can spare the weight, i'll leave them on. I try to wear them as much as I can but they are at the top of the list of things to pull based on my loadout. The M320 stock is actually 1st.. http://i.imgur.com/8v7Tdjd.jpg I would just mount the M320 to my M4, that seem to mitigate some of the recoil as well (from what I remember, been out for a few years now)... Anyway, I have to say the more armor you have, the better off you will probably be. That is of course, assuming you (as a civilian or LEO) need the armor for home defense, driving in a vehicle, or conducting some kind of direct action (raiding a building full of criminals) where you have a way to drive/get-transported to the location then back out... For all those weenies saying the weight is an issue, well they are 100% correct. Their is no way in hell I would 'bug out' in full armor, potentially having to ruck for miles and miles. I have separate kits like belt/chest-rig/assault-pack I can use for carrying bare necessities while leaving more cumbersome stuff at home (or ditching it if I really had to). Again weight is always a consideration, you don't want to weigh an additional 50lbs and you don't even have water/MREs added to your 'bug out' or ruck kit yet. All that considered, I look at 'SWAT' or other military/law-enforcement response units that deal with terrorists/criminals taking over buildings or finite locations. They tend to put heavy/cumbersome armor on, because the dangers involved in that job. Of course they also don't (at least usually or want to) walk 5, 10, 50 miles to get to these places, they tend to DRIVE. So wearing all that heavy crap makes all the sense in the world, and if you have time to put that crap on in a 'home defense' situation, then I say go for it. But also train with it, understand your limitations with such kit. TLDR: Armor good: Home defense, in a vehicle/transport, conducting a direct raid on a hostile building/location Armor bad: Rucking, 'bugging out', LRRP, climbing up/down hills/mountains, basically anything that involves moving on your mk. 1 left and right legs for long distances (or really difficult terrain)... |
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Posted: 1/1/2017 2:30:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Soft side armor only because I got a smoking deal on it. Otherwise no way I'd run level IV side plates since it's just a SHTF thing for me.
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