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Posted: 7/27/2015 7:43:36 PM EDT
I have just a short and simple (maybe dumb)question?

As I look through some of the gear pic threads, I see quite a few open top Kydex type holsters. Whether they are the light bearing type or just non-weapon light mounted holsters, I am wondering how they hold up during running and gunning, rough use etc. as far as retention?

It seems to me that they would not retain your weapon very well in a tactical environment, except for on the range etc.


Link Posted: 7/27/2015 7:59:45 PM EDT
[#1]
You might be seeing the Ssfariland ALS which is a retention via manual release that is hard to see when a pistol is in it.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 8:09:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You might be seeing the Ssfariland ALS which is a retention via manual release that is hard to see when a pistol is in it.
View Quote


I have one of those. I was talking about the other's.

If you have looked through the gear porn, and warbelt threads over the years you will see allot of open top kydex there not at all like any ALS/SLS type holsters.

I am wondering how they might keep the pistol from being juggled out or simply falling out while running,crawling, ect.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 8:58:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Some are better than others.  It can depend on how they're made, how much retention is molded into the kydex, or if it is adjustable.  Also some pistols lend themselves to being better for it (larger, thicker trigger guard makes for more positive retention).



However, a holster with some form of active retention will always be more secure.  Ultimately I guess it comes down to what is more important to the user; speed of use vs. security of retention.



If my rig were built with a "go to war" mentality, I'd want the extra retention.  If it were geared more towards range or competition use, I'd opt for speed.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 9:30:24 PM EDT
[#4]
The IWB holster I like has adjustable retention.

There is an rubber washer/o-ring between the kydex where it is screwed together in front of the trigger guard.

It  works really well.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 9:59:27 PM EDT
[#5]
My kydex holster has retention on th trigger guard and is adjustable.  Being a holster for my pistol with a weapon light it has enough retention I don't worry about it. It has to be pulled straight up and out or it will get jammed up, easy for me to draw, but someone walking behind me trying to grab it would be difficult. But riding an atv or dirt bike and falling off I could see the gun getting ripped out possibly.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 10:23:28 PM EDT
[#6]
I run a Raven Concealment Phantom OWB light compatible kydex holster for my EDC. I can run and gun with it no problem.

As for attaching it to a war belt, low crawling, rolling around and what not,  I'd expect a lost secondary weapon.
I use a Safariland SLS for that purpose.

Also if you turn the Raven upside down, your handgun is going to go crashing out on to the deck.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 10:25:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for the insight everybody, was thinking of trying an open top one for my 1911 with TLR-1 since Safariland doesn't make an ALS for those. They do make the hooded SLS, but I like keeping everything the same for muscle memory, and the ALS is pretty much an open top except for the pull back thumb lever.

I do remember reading somewhere a while back the the ALS for the 5" M&P 45 with TLR-1 might fit a 1911 with tlr-1? I know safariland will not recommend it because of liability reasons so no sense in asking them. I believe a member here used one for his sig 1911 with tlr-1 in an ALS for an M&P 45 with no problems.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 11:48:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Kydex holsters are form fitted to the weapon and retention or not, the pistol "snaps" in and IME are typically relatively difficult to withdraw; they don't just slip in and out.
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 7:25:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I run a Raven Concealment Phantom OWB light compatible kydex holster for my EDC. I can run and gun with it no problem.

As for attaching it to a war belt, low crawling, rolling around and what not,  I'd expect a lost secondary weapon.
I use a Safariland SLS for that purpose.

Also if you turn the Raven upside down, your handgun is going to go crashing out on to the deck.
View Quote



If you turn your raven upside down with no belt tension it might go crashing to the deck.
If you turn your raven upside down with belt belt tension it should stay put. If it doesn't then you should send it in for an adjustment.

Link Posted: 7/28/2015 9:19:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Generally, for a "tactical holster" you want some type of active retention. Because in "tactical" situations, someone else paid for that firearm and there will be hell to pay if you lose it. This is true for open carry as well. Even my RCS holsters don't have good enough retention for me to deploy with one, as they are easy to dislodge climbing in and out of a vehicle with all your crap on, going over a wall, etc. The great part about ALS, is you now have an open top holster with almost none of the performance hit normally associated with active retention.

Range commando use? Doesn't really matter.
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 5:05:31 PM EDT
[#11]
I have a custom IWB, open top holster for my Kahr.  It seems pretty snug and unlikely to fall out.  However it would be covered under most circumstances.
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 6:43:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Generally, for a "tactical holster" you want some type of active retention. Because in "tactical" situations, someone else paid for that firearm and there will be hell to pay if you lose it. This is true for open carry as well. Even my RCS holsters don't have good enough retention for me to deploy with one, as they are easy to dislodge climbing in and out of a vehicle with all your crap on, going over a wall, etc. The great part about ALS, is you now have an open top holster with almost none of the performance hit normally associated with active retention.

Range commando use? Doesn't really matter.
View Quote


Well said.
I will be sticking with my ALS holster's
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 7:08:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Bravo and Raven holsters retain fine. The newer Bravos are tight as hell.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 4:42:22 AM EDT
[#14]
If you're just using it for range/competition then it really doesn't matter. Very unlikely that the pistol will get pulled out the holster and not a huge deal if it does.

If you're going to be deploying with it, hiking, even hunting then I would suggest that active retention is essential. All of those carry a much greater possibility of taking a fall and a fall or slide down a slope is the most likely scenario for getting a pistol pulled out of a holster. Also, much more difficult to find it again if that does happen.

Quoted:
Thanks for the insight everybody, was thinking of trying an open top one for my 1911 with TLR-1 since Safariland doesn't make an ALS for those. They do make the hooded SLS, but I like keeping everything the same for muscle memory, and the ALS is pretty much an open top except for the pull back thumb lever.
View Quote

I would definitely suggest considering the SLS instead for a 1911. The ALS holsters for pistols with manual safeties have a smaller, shrouded lever that is harder to operate. I also find that the ALS which requires a downwards motion to disengage makes me slower to get onto the safety than the SLS with it's upwards motion. YMMV
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 7:38:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Might want to check out T Rex Arms Titan. It's a kydex holster with a safariland SLS hood on it. All the benefits of kydex, and all the benefits of a full size duty holster. I have two, they've replaced my 6004s completely.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 8:56:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Might want to check out T Rex Arms Titan. It's a kydex holster with a safariland SLS hood on it. All the benefits of kydex, and all the benefits of a full size duty holster. I have two, they've replaced my 6004s completely.
View Quote

You got me all excited there and then let me down.... They look great but they don't offer them for the 1911.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 12:00:04 PM EDT
[#17]
I guess I'm a bit old school and still prefer a thumb break as my secondary retention. I think it's a good cross to have the security of it plus the ability to have some retention when reholstering.  It's an easy add on to most my ex holsters too.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 2:16:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I guess I'm a bit old school and still prefer a thumb break as my secondary retention. I think it's a good cross to have the security of it plus the ability to have some retention when reholstering.  It's an easy add on to most my ex holsters too.
View Quote

Thumb breaks have fallen out of favour because of guns like the Glock and M&P - the thumb break strap can get into the trigger guard and cause the gun to discharge as you holster. This is not possible with a hood.

But I agree!
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 3:46:23 PM EDT
[#19]
I run some open top kydex/polymer type holsters on the range sometimes however, they all either have a thumb or index finger release of some sort.  I prefer this because IME of getting in and out of vehicles it is pretty easy to snag your pistol grip on something pulling it up enough to break the retention when getting in that you may not initially notice sometimes resulting in your pistol falling out then or when you get out.  My concealed carry holster is leather and open top FWIW and works great however, it is concealed under a shirt or jacket and isn't exposed to get hung up on something. YMMV.  ETA content.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 10:30:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I have just a short and simple (maybe dumb)question?

As I look through some of the gear pic threads, I see quite a few open top Kydex type holsters. Whether they are the light bearing type or just non-weapon light mounted holsters, I am wondering how they hold up during running and gunning, rough use etc. as far as retention?

It seems to me that they would not retain your weapon very well in a tactical environment, except for on the range etc.


View Quote

They work fantastically if they are well made. I use mine for EDC and anything involving civvie clothes. I've taken it to some beer shoots and have yet to encounter a retention problem. I've tried, and short of hanging upside down, I've yet to jostle it loose. Also note, mine has a screw to adjust tension, so once I gave that a quarter turn, it doesn't fall out at that angle either.

I don't however use it in a combat setting. At that point, particularly if CQB is likely to be involved I will go with a holster with some sort of retention. My go-to of choice for my gunbelt is a 5.11 Thumbdrive (which is actually made by BladeTech) with no hood. Hoods are gay, snag the front sight when you're drawing, and only cops seem to be worried enough about some shithead grabbing their gun, and defeating the retention systems to think they're a good idea.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:19:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



If you turn your raven upside down with no belt tension it might go crashing to the deck.
If you turn your raven upside down with belt belt tension it should stay put. If it doesn't then you should send it in for an adjustment.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I run a Raven Concealment Phantom OWB light compatible kydex holster for my EDC. I can run and gun with it no problem.

As for attaching it to a war belt, low crawling, rolling around and what not,  I'd expect a lost secondary weapon.
I use a Safariland SLS for that purpose.

Also if you turn the Raven upside down, your handgun is going to go crashing out on to the deck.



If you turn your raven upside down with no belt tension it might go crashing to the deck.
If you turn your raven upside down with belt belt tension it should stay put. If it doesn't then you should send it in for an adjustment.




When I first received it, it was nice and tight and the pistol snapped in smartly. It's actually loosy goosey as all hell now.
MY P226R bounces in and out of my holster slightly if I run up a flight of stairs (while skipping steps) or jumping.
But that's the nature of Kydex in my experience, as it tends to stretch out and loosen and eventually break over time. Not the fault
of Raven thenselves.

Kydex also breaks easily when flexed repeatedly. I think I've broken over 3
dozen Comp-Tac mag and flashlight carriers. No joke.

But what to do? I don't like leather holsters.

I have thought about taking a heat gun to the Raven to tighten it back up a bit.
Ive done it with the Comptac stuff with positive results, but am a bit hesitant to heat up the Raven.
Anybody reheat/reform their EDC kydex holster?

Raven Phantom EDC:


Kydex Comtac mag/light carriers that stretch out and break over and over and over again:
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 11:44:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Tension adjustment screw
(K-Rounds In N Out Reversible IWB/OWB Holster Right Handed, Glock 19)





Link Posted: 7/30/2015 7:17:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



When I first received it, it was nice and tight and the pistol snapped in smartly. It's actually loosy goosey as all hell now.
MY P226R bounces in and out of my holster slightly if I run up a flight of stairs (while skipping steps) or jumping.
But that's the nature of Kydex in my experience, as it tends to stretch out and loosen and eventually break over time. Not the fault
of Raven thenselves.

Kydex also breaks easily when flexed repeatedly. I think I've broken over 3
dozen Comp-Tac mag and flashlight carriers. No joke.

But what to do? I don't like leather holsters.

I have thought about taking a heat gun to the Raven to tighten it back up a bit.
Ive done it with the Comptac stuff with positive results, but am a bit hesitant to heat up the Raven.
Anybody reheat/reform their EDC kydex holster?

Raven Phantom EDC:
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IronBalaclava/media/DSC01955_zpss9btbi1w.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/IronBalaclava/DSC01955_zpss9btbi1w.jpg</a>

Kydex Comtac mag/light carriers that stretch out and break over and over and over again:
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IronBalaclava/media/DSC01964_zpsvobcgixj.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/IronBalaclava/DSC01964_zpsvobcgixj.jpg</a>
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I run a Raven Concealment Phantom OWB light compatible kydex holster for my EDC. I can run and gun with it no problem.

As for attaching it to a war belt, low crawling, rolling around and what not,  I'd expect a lost secondary weapon.
I use a Safariland SLS for that purpose.

Also if you turn the Raven upside down, your handgun is going to go crashing out on to the deck.



If you turn your raven upside down with no belt tension it might go crashing to the deck.
If you turn your raven upside down with belt belt tension it should stay put. If it doesn't then you should send it in for an adjustment.




When I first received it, it was nice and tight and the pistol snapped in smartly. It's actually loosy goosey as all hell now.
MY P226R bounces in and out of my holster slightly if I run up a flight of stairs (while skipping steps) or jumping.
But that's the nature of Kydex in my experience, as it tends to stretch out and loosen and eventually break over time. Not the fault
of Raven thenselves.

Kydex also breaks easily when flexed repeatedly. I think I've broken over 3
dozen Comp-Tac mag and flashlight carriers. No joke.

But what to do? I don't like leather holsters.

I have thought about taking a heat gun to the Raven to tighten it back up a bit.
Ive done it with the Comptac stuff with positive results, but am a bit hesitant to heat up the Raven.
Anybody reheat/reform their EDC kydex holster?

Raven Phantom EDC:
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IronBalaclava/media/DSC01955_zpss9btbi1w.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/IronBalaclava/DSC01955_zpss9btbi1w.jpg</a>

Kydex Comtac mag/light carriers that stretch out and break over and over and over again:
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IronBalaclava/media/DSC01964_zpsvobcgixj.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/IronBalaclava/DSC01964_zpsvobcgixj.jpg</a>



Send it in for adjustment.  If they can't bring it back to spec you will get a brand new one.

There is a reason those comptac carriers break, the minimal design is nice and looks good but it has some serious structural flaws.
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 9:38:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Thumb breaks have fallen out of favour because of guns like the Glock and M&P - the thumb break strap can get into the trigger guard and cause the gun to discharge as you holster. This is not possible with a hood.

But I agree!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess I'm a bit old school and still prefer a thumb break as my secondary retention. I think it's a good cross to have the security of it plus the ability to have some retention when reholstering.  It's an easy add on to most my ex holsters too.

Thumb breaks have fallen out of favour because of guns like the Glock and M&P - the thumb break strap can get into the trigger guard and cause the gun to discharge as you holster. This is not possible with a hood.

But I agree!


You are right.  I only have the strap portion of the thumb breaks attached with one screw, so after I break it, it falls forward.  That way during reholstering, the gun slides in the holster, then you rotate the thumb break strap back up and over.  No worries about the strap going into the trigger guard.  I borrowed the concept from an old Safariland duty holster I used to have.
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 12:26:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Send it in for adjustment.  If they can't bring it back to spec you will get a brand new one.

There is a reason those comptac carriers break, the minimal design is nice and looks good but it has some serious structural flaws.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I run a Raven Concealment Phantom OWB light compatible kydex holster for my EDC. I can run and gun with it no problem.

As for attaching it to a war belt, low crawling, rolling around and what not,  I'd expect a lost secondary weapon.
I use a Safariland SLS for that purpose.

Also if you turn the Raven upside down, your handgun is going to go crashing out on to the deck.



If you turn your raven upside down with no belt tension it might go crashing to the deck.
If you turn your raven upside down with belt belt tension it should stay put. If it doesn't then you should send it in for an adjustment.




When I first received it, it was nice and tight and the pistol snapped in smartly. It's actually loosy goosey as all hell now.
MY P226R bounces in and out of my holster slightly if I run up a flight of stairs (while skipping steps) or jumping.
But that's the nature of Kydex in my experience, as it tends to stretch out and loosen and eventually break over time. Not the fault
of Raven thenselves.

Kydex also breaks easily when flexed repeatedly. I think I've broken over 3
dozen Comp-Tac mag and flashlight carriers. No joke.

But what to do? I don't like leather holsters.

I have thought about taking a heat gun to the Raven to tighten it back up a bit.
Ive done it with the Comptac stuff with positive results, but am a bit hesitant to heat up the Raven.
Anybody reheat/reform their EDC kydex holster?

Raven Phantom EDC:
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IronBalaclava/media/DSC01955_zpss9btbi1w.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/IronBalaclava/DSC01955_zpss9btbi1w.jpg</a>

Kydex Comtac mag/light carriers that stretch out and break over and over and over again:
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/IronBalaclava/media/DSC01964_zpsvobcgixj.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/IronBalaclava/DSC01964_zpsvobcgixj.jpg</a>



Send it in for adjustment.  If they can't bring it back to spec you will get a brand new one.

There is a reason those comptac carriers break, the minimal design is nice and looks good but it has some serious structural flaws.



Yeah,
but it took months to get from Raven, and I'm looking for a more "immediate" solution.

As for the CompTac stuff, It's all one piece Kydex, so the part that folds over the belt WILL eventually break. I'm yet to find an equally low profile
design as the Comptac carriers, hence the reason I keep going back. Plus I get 'em cheap at work.

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