Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Posted: 6/25/2015 3:48:40 PM EDT
I Googled this and found lots of archived arfcom threads, so am hopping for June 2015 updated info ...

Requirements (yes, it's a hierarchy):
1. Level III stand-alone
2. Actually certified to a real standard
3. As light as possible
4. As cheap as possible
* Prefer (not required) multi-curve or sculpted or athletic cut (when the fk did buying armor become like a custom suit??) because it makes sense this would facilitate greater movement. Perhaps irrelevant?

Assumptions Understandings (yes, my head may be completely up my a ...):
1. there's an inverse relationship between cost and weight - so if it's cheap, it's heavy or if it's light it's expensive
2. there are variables in sizing which are just silly - so it's possible to want 10x12 and find ranges (of odd increments like 0.12) of less than or more than 10x12 by 1.5" which the plate vendor claims will still fit in a 10x12 PC
3. there are unclear variables in shape - standard, sapi, esapi, shooters, swimmers, as well as actual measurements (both US and metric) with limited commonality

Usage: train like I fight so I can ...

My request:
Actual product recommendations would be ideal. Also feel free to correct my assumptions understandings if they are inaccurate, but please include which solution you would select instead

TIA
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 6:05:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Here's my recommendation. Security Pro USA Plates

They're Level 3 Multi-hit, triple curve, Ceramic plates rated to stop the below rounds. The Polyethelyne/Dyneema plates that are coming out are very lightweight but do not stop M855/SS109 rounds and can be damaged from excessive heat exposure (such as sitting in your car). I'd stay away from steel, Ceramic plates are not as fragile as some suggest and can stop M193 rounds whereas some AR500 plates cannot. Plus, the cost of ceramic plates has dropped and they're reasonably priced.

These plates are 4.4lbs for a medium, stop all common calibers, and are stand alone (Didn't see "stand alone" on the site, but I spoke to a rep of the company)

Rifle M-1 7.62 x 63 mm - JSP 2780 847
Rifle SVD, Dragunov 7.62 x 54R - LPS 2300 701
Rifle SVD, Dragunov 7.62 x 54R - L 2840 865
Rifle FN FAL 7.62 x 51 mm - M80* 2780 847
Rifle AK-47, M, SKS 7.62 x 39mm - Mild Steel Core 2380 725
Rifle AK-47, M, SKS 7.62 x 39 mm - Ball 2380 725
Rifle M-16/AR-15 5.56 x 45 mm -M855/SS109 3117 950
Rifle M-16/AR-15 5.56 x 45 mm - M193 3150 960

I'm all for a better suggestion but I haven't been able to find a lighter plate that stops both M193 and M855/SS109.

Goodluck,  Bighunter27
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 6:08:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Pick one: lightest weight possible or cheapest possible. You can't have both.

Does it need to stop M855 or is that optional?
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 7:07:18 PM EDT
[#3]
@bighunter27: good stuff! Thx

@ layer60: thx for confirming the weight-price thing. Weight is more important than price.

M855 - REALLY good question. I consider penetrator/steel core to be closer to AP than not closer to AP, so I figure I'd need LVL IV to defeat M855/SS1098/AP etc - no?  Secondly, what's the probability I run into M855/SS109 in CONUS?
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 10:05:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
M855 - REALLY good question. I consider penetrator/steel core to be closer to AP than not closer to AP, so I figure I'd need LVL IV to defeat M855/SS1098/AP etc - no? You don't need Level IV to stop M855.  The steel insert in M855 is not as hard as what you would find in actual AP rounds, and thus is not considered AP and available to the public. Here's a Link that explains M855. Level IV indicates the armor will stop 1 rd of .30 caliber AP which is a rare round, but will most likely stop lower threats. Level III indicates the armor will stop 6rds of .308 FMJ, and will likely stop lesser rounds. I chose III+ (+ is not an official rating, just a selling point, usually to indicate it will stop M855 but always double check with the manufacturer) because I don't need the extra weight or cost of a level IV.


Secondly, what's the probability I run into M855/SS109 in CONUS?  The likelyhood of facing M855/SS109 in the CONUS is decent. M855 is commercially and surplus available, and is likely a more sought after round since the ATF mentioned banning them (no longer a direct concern). If M855 was not a substantial risk, I'd consider Dyneema under the premise I don't subject my armor to high temperatures such as inside a car in Texas heat.

View Quote


Hope this helps.

Bighunter27
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 10:22:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Here are a few more plates.

Velocity Systems 7.62x39 (API-BZ) ICW Hard Armor Plate
Cool plate, lightweight, and thin but is an ICW plate (In Conjunction With) and is expensive. Once you add soft armor you'll be spending about $1,250 per side or $2,500 in front/rear armor alone, plus the soft armor increases the weight to near the weight of the Security Pro Plates I mentioned earlier.

Midwest Armor has some good plates at good prices, but they're a little heavier. Follow the link to look at options including material and level of protection.
The Proguard III+ is heavier but only $350. They also offer the Proguard IV at only $180, but these plates are 8lbs each, which adds up after you include ammo/medical/coms/etc.

Bulletproofme.com is also a great source of knowledge and sells various hard and soft armor types.

Bighunter27
Link Posted: 6/25/2015 10:48:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Grey Ghost Gear has three different Level IIIs and a Level IV. Check the specs for threat level protection. Pretty good prices. All certified and a proven company.

Look at the products offered by Appalachian Training. Stand up company. Just tell them what you need and they will point you in the right direction even if it isn't something they carry.

Personally, I want M855 protection. You can buy it at every gun show in the country so there is a pretty good chance of encountering it.
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 8:49:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 10:08:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here are a few more plates.

Velocity Systems 7.62x39 (API-BZ) ICW Hard Armor Plate
Cool plate, lightweight, and thin but is an ICW plate (In Conjunction With) and is expensive. Once you add soft armor you'll be spending about $1,250 per side or $2,500 in front/rear armor alone, plus the soft armor increases the weight to near the weight of the Security Pro Plates I mentioned earlier.

Midwest Armor has some good plates at good prices, but they're a little heavier. Follow the link to look at options including material and level of protection.
The Proguard III+ is heavier but only $350. They also offer the Proguard IV at only $180, but these plates are 8lbs each, which adds up after you include ammo/medical/coms/etc.

Bulletproofme.com is also a great source of knowledge and sells various hard and soft armor types.

Bighunter27
View Quote


These are good recommendations. If the lightest weight possible is your thing, look at the Venture FM3 by Midwest. AFAIK, it's the lightest certified level III plate in the world at 2.2 pounds.
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 11:19:44 AM EDT
[#9]
Thx to all for the replies.

A certified LVL III @ 2.2lbs sounded TG2BT, so I appreciate the confirmation.


Two Follow-up questions:

1. I've read that ceramic plates might develop hairline cracks which require an x-ray to identify? So we're gonna ask guys to step into harm's way and tell them they must run, rump, roll, swim, be in outside temperature extremes but oh-by-the-way, you can't field inspect the kit we require you to wear unless you have a portable x-ray machine - wtf?!? Or am I applying common person thinking to something I don't fully understand?

2. A cpl days ago I would have bought the Venture FM3 on sight - but comments from bighunter27 have festered ... what say ye with experience about the likelihood of encountering M855 in CONUS?
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 7:16:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thx to all for the replies.

A certified LVL III @ 2.2lbs sounded TG2BT, so I appreciate the confirmation.


Two Follow-up questions:

1. I've read that ceramic plates might develop hairline cracks which require an x-ray to identify? So we're gonna ask guys to step into harm's way and tell them they must run, rump, roll, swim, be in outside temperature extremes but oh-by-the-way, you can't field inspect the kit we require you to wear unless you have a portable x-ray machine - wtf?!? Or am I applying common person thinking to something I don't fully understand?

2. A cpl days ago I would have bought the Venture FM3 on sight - but comments from bighunter27 have festered ... what say ye with experience about the likelihood of encountering M855 in CONUS?
View Quote


1) yes, they can develop hairline cracks. In my 10 plus years dealing with ceramic plates in the military the only ones that cracked were one dropped from shoulder distances or higher. Casual 1 foot falls didn't do anything. They are obviously very hard so not prone to breakage. If they flex or you hear anything like sand moving, then its cracked. For x-raying, I travel occasionally out of a very small airport. So I get there early and go through security with my plates in my carry on. I ask them to x-ray the plates separately and let me know if they see any lines or spider webs. Each time they've done so without hesitation. The only question they ask is why. I explain that they can get cracks that only a x-ray can see.

2) As I said in my above post. M855 is sold at every gunshow. I'd say the chance of encountering it is fairly good. Personally, I want a plate that stops M193 and M855, even if it is a heavier.
Link Posted: 6/26/2015 7:33:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Thx tanker. I missed your comment about gun shows. And I clearly don't get out enuf ...
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 7:17:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Bump for more info from other members.
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 8:21:59 AM EDT
[#13]
bump

btw, I thought I saw a couple links to proxy thru a work firewall? Also, I can't find the link to the 'Members' section ... lil help?
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top