Are they the same? I am looking at a plate and it is a plate but it says 3+. Are 3+ really just level 3?

3+ is supposed to stop m855 green tip.

Is 3+ the same as AR500?

3a is soft armor designation, 3+ is being used by AR500 Armor currently for some of their hard armor and maybe some other similar groups.

No.

"3+" is meaningless. The NIJ defines only levels III and IV for hard armor. Those are defined, testable, standards which qualified professional laboratories will certify certain armor to meet. M855 is not a threat which either level III or IV calls for testing against.

"3+" or "III+" has no standard definition. The origin of the term can only be called marketing.  

Those same laboratories that certify compliance with published NIJ standards will test for threats outside the definition of those standards, and certify certain armor products for those "special threats." If legitimate armor companies want to certify level III plates for M855, they can have a lab test against that threat in compliance with NIJ testing protocols and receive a special threat certification. Until then, just assume they are blowing smoke up your ass.

Ok you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the way armor is rated.
The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) is responsible for testing and certifying body armor in the US
Their ratings go I, IIa, II, IIIa, III, and IV.

IIIa is the highest rating for soft armor. It is rated SPECIFICALLY for .44 mag and 9mm subgun (higher velocity than pistol rounds)

III is hard armor, SPECIFICALLY to stop 7.62x51 M80

That doesn't mean it will stop, say 62 grain 5.56. It might, but it's not certified for that. Thus some manufacturers call their armor III+, their own made-up name for armor designed (but not always certified busy the NIJ) to stop 5.56.

lvl 3 armor is not rated to stop 5.56. AR500 lvl 3 will stop m855 but not m193 at close range. Lvl 3+ is AR500 new armor. It will stop m193 at close range.



5.56 Punches Through Level III Body Armor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYkEMhPsO8



7.62 NATO vs Level III Armor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPUJvxfeOfU



AR500 Level III+ Armor vs M193 5.56

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfA3Qv9JjBA



If you're going to buy steel get lvl 3+ armor.

thanks for posting this

Not exactly sure what you are saying with the first line in bold but the second line is false.

III ICW? Don't know why he would specifically use AR500 though.

Let me explain it:
Lvl 3 armor is NOT Rate to STOP 5.56. Are we clear about this?
AR500 lvl 3 steel armor shown by 10mm video  stopped M855 steel core at close range.
AR500 lvl 3 steel armor shown by 10mm video DID NOT STOP M193 at close range.
AR500 decided to give 10mm their new lvl 3+ armor for testing.
10mm did the test.
In his video AR500 lvl 3+ armor stopped M193 at close range. The bullet was traveling 3341fps when it impacted the plate. You will not get that kind of velocity with a 20" inch barrel or shorter.  



 



Visual proof of AR500 lvl 3+ plate preventing penetration from M193 at close. What else do you want? If you have problems with his videos bring it up with him. Send him a PM or post it on one of his armor plate testing threads.
 

I specifically used AR500 because 10mm a member of this board test armor plates. Most of his testing in recent videos are around AR500 steel plates. AR500 as far as I know is the only one that makes lvl 3 steel armor design to defeat M193.
10mm is currently testing 22-250 against armor plate which I recommended in past threads. I am looking forward to seeing if 22-250 will defeat lvl 4 ceramic plate at close range.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1741422_AR500_Level_III__Body_Armor_vs_22_250.html&page=1
 

I was also wondering how this became a thread about AR500. Your post made it sound, from the wording, as though AR500 was specifically III+, as if there were no other options. There are plenty of options in the III+ range and nearly all of them are superior to steel.

I get sick of every armor thread turning into a discussion about gong targets. Also, I would like to see the video you reference. Does someone have a link?

Amen.
I kind of wish the ar500 steel makers would stop applying NIJ ratings to their plates when most of them aren't even NIJ tested. It muddies the waters and we get shit-shows like this.
Btw, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like some people assume all ar500 steel armor is equivalent to III- this is patently false. The steel targets that these plates are derived from carry no rating whatsoever. They could stop .30-06 AP, or .22 could penetrate. Way too many variables with steel.


The testing being referenced is on YouTube, by member 10mm. Good videos, no BS. The name is 'The Wound Channel'  - just search for that and you'll find all his videos.  (can't link on my phone, sorry)

Level 3 cert armor only rated to stop 7.62NATO. They are not rated to stop 5.56. I am impressed by AR500 armor because their plate defeat m855 which it was not rated for. I recommend AR500.com lvl 3+ armor because I have visual proof from an independent tester it will defeat m193 rounds at close range.
Do you know what even more impressive? AR500 3+ plate armor is able to defeat 7.62NATO AP round at it weakest point (the armor edges). 4 7.62NATO AP rounds hit the edge of the armor at 5 yards and did not penetrate. No trace of structural damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB1uq1T9SHg
Link? The links is in my previous post you replied too. Here it is again.
5.56 Punches Through Level III Body Armor




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYkEMhPsO8
7.62 NATO vs Level III Armor




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPUJvxfeOfU
AR500 Level III+ Armor vs M193 5.56




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfA3Qv9JjBA
Here is 10mm wound channel.



https://www.youtube.com/user/wjpurnell/videos
If you mean 10mm Arfcom general posts. Here some of them.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1703245_If_You_Own_or_Want_Body_Armor_You_Might_Want_To_Watch_This_Video.html
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1711656__ARCHIVED_THREAD____5_56_xm193_vs_Level_III_Body_Armor___25_Yards.html&page=1
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1741422_AR500_Level_III__Body_Armor_vs_22_250.html&page=1
 

They did this because the NIJ have no rating between lvl 3 and 4. 5.56 is one of the most common round in the world yet the only armor level rated to stop 5.56 is lvl 4. When you buy a lvl 3 armor there is no guaranteed it will stop 5.56. In fact you should not expect lvl 3 to stop 5.56.  Lvl 3+ rating was created to show buyers their armor will defeat one of the most common round in the world.



It not the industry fault. It the fault of useless government.



 

The level of derp around steel body armor is alarming.

"AR500" is a type of steel used for multiple applications, only one of which is body armor. The 500 refers to the Brinell Hardness Number (BHN). AR 500 steel is a material used by MULTIPLE MANUFACTURERS of body armor, and is not specific to the company and site sponsor called AR500 Armor. The level III (3) products from the VENDOR AR500 Armor are made of AR500 steel of a particular thickness and (usually) spall coating, but basically identical products made of AR500 STEEL are available from other companies such as The Target Man/Spartan Armor.

MULTIPLE MANUFACTURERS of AR500 steel body armor products have now released products that are referred to as "Level 3+" plates by the manufacturers, but as others have explained that is not an actually certified NIJ rating. Rather these are plates tested against specific velocities that these same manufacturer's Level III products do not stop, generally meaning high velocity 5.56 rounds like M193. These "Level 3+" products are NOT AR500 steel, but rather AR550 or higher steels. Notice the higher BHN designation meaning a harder steel. That's how they are able to stop higher velocity threats. These products are rated up to certain projectile velocities, because for steel armor the velocity of the projectile is the major factor for penetration, and not projectile size or even necessarily "armor piercing" designations.

This does NOT mean that "Level 3+" steel body armor products will reliably stop all 5.56 threats. Again, the velocity is the critical factor. Lighter weight 5.56 rounds that travel at higher velocity, or those which are fired from longer barreled weapons which subsequently increases muzzle velocity, can exceed the velocity rating certified by the armor manufacturer. These products have been tested by independent labs for specific velocities, and not necessarily specific rounds like with NIJ certifications.

Do not take this post as 100% truth or fact - do your own research.

Eh? Velocity makes a SAPI thats multi hit and can stop 7.62 and 5.56 only weighs 4 lbs I believe.

No. Shit.

It gives me indigestion sometimes, especially on days like this when I have had too much coffee.

People looking for real armor and real information on forums now get drowned out by the signal-to-noise ratio when the Lemming Bandwagon overturns and they all start gibbering their ignorance on how steel is so super awesome.

Maybe it's just that simpler folks can actually wrap their heads around a hunk of steel coated with a liner, rather than comprehend the complexities of composite armor materials, so they think they can contribute to the conversation without all the prerequisites of reading and testing. That would explain why any time the word "armor" is posted on a forum anywhere on the internet, thousands of Steel Lemmings descend on the thread and start taking a giant shit. Or maybe I'm just an elitist asshole when it comes to armor. Could go either way.

All those years and dollars that I spent researching and compiling knowledge on ballistic properties of materials... wasted. If only I had figured out the riddle of steel back then.

Oh, that's right. I did! The riddle goes something like this:

What's made of steel and sucks for armor? Steel!

Other questions that folks might want the answer to (I'm just trying to help, here):

What defies physics and goes on a diet whenever it's sold as armor? Steel!

What's magical and turns everyone into an armor expert? Steel!

What's brown and sticky? A stick.



You're welcome.

It's an ICW plate but yes.

Lvl        




What I posted have nothing to do with SAPI or velocity. The only NIJ rating that stop 5.56 is lvl 4 armor. It's not an opinion it's a fact. NIJ rating lvl 3 is not rated to stop 5.56 even if the armor design to stop 5.56. NIJ refused to make a new rating for armor capable of stopping 5.56. When you buy lvl 3 armor there is NO guaranteed it will stop 5.56. NIJ lvl rating only stop up to M80 7.62NATO round.



If you read some of the comments on 10mm thread a lot of people believe lvl 3 provide protection to 5.56 because it can stop 7.62NATO. Thats IMO is a fatal assumption. Lvl 3+ is created by the armor industry to prevent these type of confusion.

Going loco on steel plates, I see.





 

No, but the people who promote them as a good choice for armor do make me Loco, as you put it. Especially since said promotion is usually filled with misinformation.

But what do I know?

True. The VS PBZ is ICW. 4 lbs. for each plate, a pound each for the backers.

My BFG PLATEMinus, TQ Now! with CAT, Ten Speed with three loaded PMags, and the armor weigh in at 12.5 lbs. Expensive, but worth it.

Layer: You don't know shit about armor and steel body armor is literally the best thing since sliced bread. Excellent summation, and I'm with ya on those points.

it's an ICW it stops 5.56 with kevlar backing boss

You definitely know more about armor than me, and probably most others on this forum, but I tend to disagree about steel just plain sucking. It's not the best option, but it does make sense for some, assuming the purchaser understands some key traits of the armor and other non-steel armor to make an informed decision. That's generally something the masses suck at though, which makes for a bit of a dangerous situation.

You're not wrong. I know I take it a little too far with my steel-hate but I would note that it's not really so much about the steel as it is about the misinformation and hype surrounding it.

If a person selects steel with a truly comprehensive understanding of it's strengths and weaknesses and they're happy with it, great! But far too many people make shady or outright false assertions about it. That's where my aneurysms come from.

When someone asks a question like "What armor should I get?", far too many people jump in and say "Get steel!" without even bothering to ask what the requirements are.