User Panel
Posted: 10/26/2014 2:49:27 PM EDT
My ALICE medium and I have been to hell and back. I grew up on ALICE and have tried several things to replace it but came back. It's got a Down East Frame and improved kidney strap and harness. It has seen hundreds of miles rucking for fitness and back packing.
BUT It is long in the tooth, the bag has seen better days. It's also a little limited in size (always dealt with this, if you can't fit it in an ALICE medium for a Southeast weekend outing you don't need it.) However I'm starting to camp with my son for Weblos and I end up carrying more shit, between kid size rucks and the fact that his sleeping bag does not compress well. I'm pretty committed to surplus stuff, as it holds up the best but need something larger and more modular. It will do backpacking trips with buddies, scouting and family camping. I looked at a MOLLE pack at the local surplus store and did not like the framing at all, It had some weird Y harness for the shoulder straps. Plus it was huge. The link below has a different style I think, which looks like another Down East frame. Price is always an issue so that's a bonus. Opinions Requested |
|
[#1]
Couldn't you just use a Large ALICE bag with the frame you have? If so, that would probably be the most cost effective option.
|
|
[#2]
Quoted:
Couldn't you just use a Large ALICE bag with the frame you have? If so, that would probably be the most cost effective option. View Quote I have a large ALICE already, just looking at choices. This has a couple of advantages; load lifters, PALS webbing for modularity, IR refelctivity etc. |
|
[#3]
That appears to be the standard issue MOLLE pack. I call it pack because it doesn't deserve the term ruck. A ruck is something you can adjust to fit relatively comfortably and wear for hours on end. The MOLLE sucks. I was never able to adjust it to be as comfortable as a med ALICE without frame. It's heavy and for as big/unwieldy as it is, you can't seem to pack much in it. I tried everything and the shoulder straps never fit right so the pack seemed to sit far off of my back and wobbled.
I would rather carry a large ALICE than a MOLLE. |
|
[#4]
What you have linked is a late-issue MOLLE II pack, with integral sleeping bag compartment at the bottom. Well-made, and good kit if that is what you want. I have a couple of them. Shown without the large Sustainment Pouches usually attached to the upper sides of the pack body, and which add a good deal of ready-access volume. I advise looking around for best value. www.old grouch.com is a site supporter, and usually has good prices and fair descriptions.
The linked pack has a load-bearing waistbelt, and since it is in UCP (grey) camo, I believe that the shoulder straps and frame are armor-friendly. If you take the small amount of time and effort to set the ensemble up properly, it will carry far more weight, far more comfortably than any ALICE pack ever could. If you look here:http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_10/214382_ALICE_Gear_Setups.html&page=9 you will see, with a very good pictorial, how to upgrade any framed ALICE pack. I will say, for certain, that such upgraded ALICE packs blows away issued models. Like night and day. BTDT If your ALICE pack is trashed, then buy a MOLLE II, and dye the grey, UCP pack the color you choose. See my thread in this forum. Easily and cheaply done. Just dyed some Interceptor side armor pouches today. If your ALICE pack has some life in it still, then buy a MOLLE waist belt, and MOLLE shoulder straps as well as a Modular Sleeping System Carrier, which straps underneath any ALICE pack, and holds most fairly large sleeping bags.t Info how to do all this in linked thread. The other alternative, assuming your ALICE pack is junk, is to take your existing ALICE frame and after buying a couple of ALICE cargo carrier shelves and some straps, to mod it with MOLLE stuff as described above, and use it as a ammo and 5-gallon can hauler. The modern plastic frames don't accept cargo shelves, and so aren't adaptable to cargo haulers, whereas the ALICE frames, with MOLLE upgrades are just fine. Then buy the pack that is best for you. |
|
[#5]
I have been using British infantry Bergens for just over a year now and love them. They are really adjustable from something like 45 liters to 120 liters and carry well.
|
|
[#6]
I too found myself in a similar situation. Camping with the kids is great, but they simply cannot carry the requisite gear. Also, I know with my kids, I make sure they have as many comfort items as possible. It's better to make sure they enjoy camping at first before you start paring down gear to the minimums.
Not sure what your price range is, but Kelty has a great line of packs that can be had for realist key inexpensive prices. REI (if you have one locally) is another great source. Especially when they have their "garage sales". Trust me, once you delve into the newer world of packs that have great suspensions and comfortable waist straps, it's hard to go back to the tried and true Alice. Alice is like a great ex girlfriend. She was the best thing around at the time, but there is something newer and better. But I would mind humping Alice one more time. |
|
[#7]
Quoted:
I have a large ALICE already, just looking at choices. This has a couple of advantages; load lifters, PALS webbing for modularity, IR refelctivity etc. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Couldn't you just use a Large ALICE bag with the frame you have? If so, that would probably be the most cost effective option. I have a large ALICE already, just looking at choices. This has a couple of advantages; load lifters, PALS webbing for modularity, IR refelctivity etc. My bad. I thought you mentioned a Medium, but after re-reading your first post I see I made an assumption Wait, you did mention Medium in the topic. In any case...good luck with your search. |
|
[#8]
Quoted:
My bad. I thought you mentioned a Medium, but after re-reading your first post I see I made an assumption Wait, you did mention Medium in the topic. In any case...good luck with your search. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Couldn't you just use a Large ALICE bag with the frame you have? If so, that would probably be the most cost effective option. I have a large ALICE already, just looking at choices. This has a couple of advantages; load lifters, PALS webbing for modularity, IR refelctivity etc. My bad. I thought you mentioned a Medium, but after re-reading your first post I see I made an assumption Wait, you did mention Medium in the topic. In any case...good luck with your search. I do use a medium now, but I'm trying to decide if the MOLLE II is worth it over just putting my large ALICE on my down east frame |
|
[#9]
Quoted:
I do use a medium now, but I'm trying to decide if the MOLLE II is worth it over just putting my large ALICE on my down east frame View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Couldn't you just use a Large ALICE bag with the frame you have? If so, that would probably be the most cost effective option. I have a large ALICE already, just looking at choices. This has a couple of advantages; load lifters, PALS webbing for modularity, IR refelctivity etc. My bad. I thought you mentioned a Medium, but after re-reading your first post I see I made an assumption Wait, you did mention Medium in the topic. In any case...good luck with your search. I do use a medium now, but I'm trying to decide if the MOLLE II is worth it over just putting my large ALICE on my down east frame OP, I have a large ALICE ruck & frame. I took the MOLLE II shoulder straps & waist belt & attached them to the ALICE frame. What a difference it makes. I have done some long rucks in the CA National Guard ( Infantry ) with it. Awesome! It's my main BOB if the SHTF really happens. Cheap also. I think I got the MOLLE II plastic frame ( I used the ALICE frame not the MOLLE II plastic frame ) shoulder straps & waist belt for under $30.00. Simple to set-up also. You could do the same with the medium ALICE ruck. The only draw back is, that you really can't change out the frame, straps & waist belt as easily as with the ALICE frame, straps & kidney belt. Once you get the MOLLE II set-up on the pack, its almost a done deal. But if you do it right, you won't want / need to change it. |
|
[#10]
Take that large ALICE, send it to Tactical Tailor and get the goodies put on that will suit you best.
I hate rucking with anything else. |
|
[#11]
I hate the issued MOLLE ruck with the passion of a thousand burning suns. It's good at carrying a lot of crap and being uncomfortable...that's about it. Now that I've been issued other rucks, it never gets used. A large ALICE with upgraded straps is a far better ruck, send it off to Tactical Tailor for MOLLE panels if that's what you want added or get the 5 pocket upgrade done.
|
|
[#12]
To the guys saying the Molle ruck is a PITA to carry, you attribute that to the frame, right?
I've never used a Molle, seems to sit closer to the body, which in theory would result in a more stable load. Why does it suck compared to the Alice? Less rigid? I've rucked a large Alice with the standard straps- less than fun. But a medium with good straps? No sweat (or at least, less) |
|
[#13]
Well. I just changed the large ALICE to the good frame. Passed on the MOLLE due to yall's stellar reviews. It's pleanty big enough, I just would have liked some PALS on the outside, especially on the belt. I'd like to put my G19 in there for the upcoming scout trips.
|
|
[#14]
I know you already decided but I read all comments and didn't want to feel left out.
I have this rucksack. Ruck I like this pack, ti's huge and easy to overload if your not careful. It's a outstanding winter pack. Downside, it's heavy. The pack is made out of a heavy material but its solid as a tank. I didn't pay near this much for it. Bought my son and I both one, ( different sellers ) for about $120 /130, something like that. No frames. I thought about the Downeast frame and like to have the Mystery Ranch NICE frame but can't bring myself to cut lose the money for that one. Anyway, just putting my 2 cents out there. |
|
[#15]
Not to get off topic or hijack the thread but those of you that have had the 5 pocket combo and fasted buckle package done to your Alice pack how do you like it?
|
|
[#16]
Quoted:
I know you already decided but I read all comments and didn't want to feel left out. I have this rucksack. Ruck I like this pack, ti's huge and easy to overload if your not careful. It's a outstanding winter pack. Downside, it's heavy. The pack is made out of a heavy material but its solid as a tank. I didn't pay near this much for it. Bought my son and I both one, ( different sellers ) for about $120 /130, something like that. No frames. I thought about the Downeast frame and like to have the Mystery Ranch NICE frame but can't bring myself to cut lose the money for that one. Anyway, just putting my 2 cents out there. View Quote Looks like Medium Alice with the Tactical Tailor upgrades. Since we all agree that the ALICE is damned near bomb proof, here's what I think would be a winner: A Hellcatted Large Alice with with all exterior pouches removed and replaced with PALS panels. Frame could be either a 1606AC or ALICE with the Molle suspension. That way you could tailor it with Molle pouches as needed. |
|
[#17]
Quoted:
Not to get off topic or hijack the thread but those of you that have had the 5 pocket combo and fasted buckle package done to your Alice pack how do you like it? View Quote Anyone with the requisite number of field-expedient, QR, single-adjust side-release buckles can install them onto any ALICE pack and save some money. Just use a couple pairs of pliers to bend the existing metal buckle back and forth till it fatigues and snaps, then remove it. Install the slotted (field expedient/stationary) portion of the buckle in the void formerly occupied by the old metal buckle, and install the adjustable portion on the loose webbing strap. Actually, the ALICE pack isn't all that well-made. The internal edges of the fabric need to be bound with sewn-on tape so that they don't fray and unravel, causing a seam blow-out. The pack cloth isn't thick/durable, and various portions need to have the stitching reinforced. Suppose you have a GTG Large ALICE pack, along with metal frame, kidney pad, and GI shoulder straps. If you sent it off to TT to have the stitching augmented, edges of fabric taped, buckles installed, snow collar added, and full-length PALS side panels installed, as well as postage, that runs into money. Add to that the necessity of adding MOLLE waist belt and shoulder straps and Mod sleeping system carrier. In the end, it is almost certainly cheaper, and a lot less hassle to simply buy a MOLLE II pack with sustainment pouches, and spend maybe $10 on dye to color it the way you want. YMMV |
|
[#18]
Quoted:
Anyone with the requisite number of field-expedient, QR, single-adjust side-release buckles can install them onto any ALICE pack and save some money. Just use a couple pairs of pliers to bend the existing metal buckle back and forth till it fatigues and snaps, then remove it. Install the slotted (field expedient/stationary) portion of the buckle in the void formerly occupied by the old metal buckle, and install the adjustable portion on the loose webbing strap. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Not to get off topic or hijack the thread but those of you that have had the 5 pocket combo and fasted buckle package done to your Alice pack how do you like it? Anyone with the requisite number of field-expedient, QR, single-adjust side-release buckles can install them onto any ALICE pack and save some money. Just use a couple pairs of pliers to bend the existing metal buckle back and forth till it fatigues and snaps, then remove it. Install the slotted (field expedient/stationary) portion of the buckle in the void formerly occupied by the old metal buckle, and install the adjustable portion on the loose webbing strap. Good call but I'm also interested in getting the extra pockets put on my pack |
|
[#19]
Quoted:
Good call but I'm also interested in getting the extra pockets put on my pack View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not to get off topic or hijack the thread but those of you that have had the 5 pocket combo and fasted buckle package done to your Alice pack how do you like it? Anyone with the requisite number of field-expedient, QR, single-adjust side-release buckles can install them onto any ALICE pack and save some money. Just use a couple pairs of pliers to bend the existing metal buckle back and forth till it fatigues and snaps, then remove it. Install the slotted (field expedient/stationary) portion of the buckle in the void formerly occupied by the old metal buckle, and install the adjustable portion on the loose webbing strap. Good call but I'm also interested in getting the extra pockets put on my pack Might be better off foregoing the 5-pocket set-up, and instead of that, getting the full PALS panels on the sides of the pack. I don't know if the 5-pocket rig is compatible with the two full PALS panels. If not, I would think the two full PALS panels a much more versatile set-up. Call and ask. What I suggest for TT-supplied ALICE mods to the Large ALICE pack are the Storm Flap, the extra stitching reinforcement, the buckle kit, and the two full PALS side panels. If you call and ask them, they will tape the internal fabric edges for $25 or so. That will give you a pretty good, strong, and versatile ALICE. Upgrading the Waist Belt and Shoulder Straps with MOLLE units, and adding a Mod sleep System carrier is up to you, but pretty much a must, IMHO. Again, YMMV. |
|
[#20]
Quoted: Not to get off topic or hijack the thread but those of you that have had the 5 pocket combo and fasted buckle package done to your Alice pack how do you like it? View Quote Fastex buckles make getting into and out of the pack a lot easier. You can also add them to the 3 exterior pockets which makes them a lot more useful IMHO. As for the 5 pocket combo, the only pocket I really like in it is the one above the main exterior pocket, the ones on either side of it were just an odd size to me and a MOLLE panel there would have been more useful. My old ruck which I sold to a buddy had a "3 pocket combo"(pockets right above the 3 already on the ruck) and full MOLLE panels on the side. I found it to be more useful than the guys who had the 5 pocket combo. Also have the storm flap installed, the stitching re-enforced, and have the seams taped like RAF mentioned. Skip the carry handle, you can make one out of a 550 cord cobra stitch and tie it onto the top of the frame. The claymore pocket is good for some and not so good for others. I liked having it but there were times where I had to empty it out. I'm not exactly sure what RAF's talking about with adding a sleeping system carrier. I did that on a MED ALICE to get some extra room, but on a LG I can only see it hanging down and annoying the shit out of me on long movements. I've never had an issue fitting everything I need into a LG ALICE and tipping the scales in excess of 100lbs. If you're overflowing one you probably need to re-evaluate what it is you're carrying. I'll also rock the boat by saying I don't see the MOLLE belt and straps to be the wonder upgrade that some believe them to be. Tried it and ended up going back to my original ALICE straps. If you're gonna drop the coin might as well get the upgraded ones. FWIW if you're thinking about modding your ALICE add up the cost of everything you want done and see how different it is from getting a MALICE Ver2. It may be worth the price difference to upgrade to a more durable material
|
|
[#21]
Quoted:
Might be better off foregoing the 5-pocket set-up, and instead of that, getting the full PALS panels on the sides of the pack. I don't know if the 5-pocket rig is compatible with the two full PALS panels. If not, I would think the two full PALS panels a much more versatile set-up. Call and ask. What I suggest for TT-supplied ALICE mods to the Large ALICE pack are the Storm Flap, the extra stitching reinforcement, the buckle kit, and the two full PALS side panels. If you call and ask them, they will tape the internal fabric edges for $25 or so. That will give you a pretty good, strong, and versatile ALICE. Upgrading the Waist Belt and Shoulder Straps with MOLLE units, and adding a Mod sleep System carrier is up to you, but pretty much a must, IMHO. Again, YMMV. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not to get off topic or hijack the thread but those of you that have had the 5 pocket combo and fasted buckle package done to your Alice pack how do you like it? Anyone with the requisite number of field-expedient, QR, single-adjust side-release buckles can install them onto any ALICE pack and save some money. Just use a couple pairs of pliers to bend the existing metal buckle back and forth till it fatigues and snaps, then remove it. Install the slotted (field expedient/stationary) portion of the buckle in the void formerly occupied by the old metal buckle, and install the adjustable portion on the loose webbing strap. Good call but I'm also interested in getting the extra pockets put on my pack Might be better off foregoing the 5-pocket set-up, and instead of that, getting the full PALS panels on the sides of the pack. I don't know if the 5-pocket rig is compatible with the two full PALS panels. If not, I would think the two full PALS panels a much more versatile set-up. Call and ask. What I suggest for TT-supplied ALICE mods to the Large ALICE pack are the Storm Flap, the extra stitching reinforcement, the buckle kit, and the two full PALS side panels. If you call and ask them, they will tape the internal fabric edges for $25 or so. That will give you a pretty good, strong, and versatile ALICE. Upgrading the Waist Belt and Shoulder Straps with MOLLE units, and adding a Mod sleep System carrier is up to you, but pretty much a must, IMHO. Again, YMMV. Have you used a ruck with a sleep system carrier hanging down? I did for a field exercise and decided never again after that. ETA: It was on a MOLLE II, not an ALICE. |
|
[#22]
Quoted:
Have you used a ruck with a sleep system carrier hanging down? I did for a field exercise and decided never again after that. ETA: It was on a MOLLE II, not an ALICE. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not to get off topic or hijack the thread but those of you that have had the 5 pocket combo and fasted buckle package done to your Alice pack how do you like it? Anyone with the requisite number of field-expedient, QR, single-adjust side-release buckles can install them onto any ALICE pack and save some money. Just use a couple pairs of pliers to bend the existing metal buckle back and forth till it fatigues and snaps, then remove it. Install the slotted (field expedient/stationary) portion of the buckle in the void formerly occupied by the old metal buckle, and install the adjustable portion on the loose webbing strap. Good call but I'm also interested in getting the extra pockets put on my pack Might be better off foregoing the 5-pocket set-up, and instead of that, getting the full PALS panels on the sides of the pack. I don't know if the 5-pocket rig is compatible with the two full PALS panels. If not, I would think the two full PALS panels a much more versatile set-up. Call and ask. What I suggest for TT-supplied ALICE mods to the Large ALICE pack are the Storm Flap, the extra stitching reinforcement, the buckle kit, and the two full PALS side panels. If you call and ask them, they will tape the internal fabric edges for $25 or so. That will give you a pretty good, strong, and versatile ALICE. Upgrading the Waist Belt and Shoulder Straps with MOLLE units, and adding a Mod sleep System carrier is up to you, but pretty much a must, IMHO. Again, YMMV. Have you used a ruck with a sleep system carrier hanging down? I did for a field exercise and decided never again after that. ETA: It was on a MOLLE II, not an ALICE. That does make a bit of a difference. Don't need a MSS carrier on the bottom of any MOLLE pack rig.. |
|
[#23]
Quoted:
Well. I just changed the large ALICE to the good frame. Passed on the MOLLE due to yall's stellar reviews. It's pleanty big enough, I just would have liked some PALS on the outside, especially on the belt. I'd like to put my G19 in there for the upcoming scout trips. View Quote You can use the MOLLE II hip belt on the Down East Inc. frame with a large ALICE. Big improvement over the ALICE belt and has PALS webbing. You can also use the Marine Corps FILBE belt on that frame as well. You can find them both on eBay for cheap. |
|
[#24]
Quoted:
I have been using British infantry Bergens for just over a year now and love them. They are really adjustable from something like 45 liters to 120 liters and carry well. View Quote I went this route as well. I happened upon one and promptly ditched my medium ALICE. I like the zip off side pockets and the internal frame stays. The Bergen itself is a heavy pack as I believe it is made from 1000 denier cordura, but it is built like a tank. Mine has the names of 3 or 4 previous owners on it(3rd Para),and it is still going strong. |
|
[#25]
Quoted:
Well. I just changed the large ALICE to the good frame. Passed on the MOLLE due to yall's stellar reviews. It's pleanty big enough, I just would have liked some PALS on the outside, especially on the belt. I'd like to put my G19 in there for the upcoming scout trips. View Quote What's the good frame? Kinda cryptic. |
|
[#26]
Quoted:
What's the good frame? Kinda cryptic. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Well. I just changed the large ALICE to the good frame. Passed on the MOLLE due to yall's stellar reviews. It's pleanty big enough, I just would have liked some PALS on the outside, especially on the belt. I'd like to put my G19 in there for the upcoming scout trips. What's the good frame? Kinda cryptic. I've got a Down East ALICE frame. It's like the the second sentence of the OP. I've also got Tactical Tailor improved straps and Kidney pad, so most of the Helcat modifications are moot, except I might end up replacing the kidney pad with the MOLLE, just for the PALs. I would really like to be able to carry a small pouch on the waste belt for my G19 for the upcoming scout trips. Edit Down East ALICE frame |
|
[#27]
Quoted:
I've got a Down East ALICE frame. It's like the the second sentence of the OP. I've also got Tactical Tailor improved straps and Kidney pad, so most of the Helcat modifications are moot, except I might end up replacing the kidney pad with the MOLLE, just for the PALs. I would really like to be able to carry a small pouch on the waste belt for my G19 for the upcoming scout trips. Edit Down East ALICE frame View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well. I just changed the large ALICE to the good frame. Passed on the MOLLE due to yall's stellar reviews. It's pleanty big enough, I just would have liked some PALS on the outside, especially on the belt. I'd like to put my G19 in there for the upcoming scout trips. What's the good frame? Kinda cryptic. I've got a Down East ALICE frame. It's like the the second sentence of the OP. I've also got Tactical Tailor improved straps and Kidney pad, so most of the Helcat modifications are moot, except I might end up replacing the kidney pad with the MOLLE, just for the PALs. I would really like to be able to carry a small pouch on the waste belt for my G19 for the upcoming scout trips. Edit Down East ALICE frame The DE ABN frame will fit all ALICE packs, and will accept the MOLLE shoulder straps and waist belt. In fact, it's expressly designed to do so. Easier to install MOLLE shoulder straps and waist belt than the ALICE counterparts. Dunno much about the TT shoulder straps. Look like the late-issue, very nice ALICE shoulder straps, which came with integral sternum strap. The ONLY shoulder straps for old-style Med ALICE packs w/o frame, but framed packs with MOLLE components are so much more comfortable, why bother? I suspect the later ALICE shoulder straps were made without consideration of body armor, and likewise with the TT shoulder straps. I do know that the MOLLE shoulder straps come in two flavors. First issue was the usual, straight straps, and later issue was the "Enhanced", curved shoulder straps, which were designed to work in conjunction with body armor. Take yer pick. Older non-armor-friendly versions are more likely to be in Woodland or desert camo, but NOT always so. ACU versions are always enhanced (curved), but easily dyed. Once you substitute the MOLLE load-bearing waist belt for the ALICE kidney pad, you will think you have gone to heaven. Hump on the belt DOWN. No comparison. Like night and day, since the waist belt is designed to take a lot of the weight of the pack off the user's shoulders. The MOLLE shoulder straps have some features that allow the user to vary the amount of weight taken by the belt Vs. the shoulders and the frame is set up for this. Called load-lifter straps. See REI pack fitting vids to see how this is a GOOD thing. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.