I already have a set of AR500 plates and have decided the weight just isn't feasible in a shtf type scenario. So I have been looking into lighter weight level 3's I am really interested in the Armour Wear because I am satisfied by the ballistic protection it provides-namely green tip 855 and 7.62 However I have a couple questions regarding the integrity of this/similar plate in non ballistic but strenuous circumstances.


How would this type of plate hold up to being submerged in water or left in the heat,-would this degrade the plate somehow?


Also does anyone know how fragile they are-do they just break if you were to trip and fall?

I think the only problem with the water would be mildew or something growing in/on the foam and fabric parts. So if it gets wet, expose to direct sunlight and ensure it's dried properly. For swimming, HDPE plates are normally used. It should not be possible for it to reach harmful temperatures inside a vehicle. The main thing that damages plates is dropping them, especially on the corners. They develop microscopic cracks first. As far as cracking one you were holding, you'd have to drop one onto cement, sling one like a frisbee into your MRAP, or if wearing your armor carrier, probably take a fall bad enough that you'd need medical attention. The best way to verify plate integrity is X-ray.

Any reviews on the above linked plates?  

Ive got a set of  Spartan AR500 level 3 plates currently.  At around 9 lbs. per plate, Ive also decided that these are to heavy for extended usage.

I would want a lot more information on their plates than they give, especially since they are throwing out a lot of buzz words in their marketing that have nothing to do with the plates they are showing based on the specs they give.  Add to that there is no such thing as "silicone dioxide" unless they have found a way of using a hand moisturizer to make plates out of.  Not exactly knocking their product, just make sure you get the full story and there are a lot of industry partners here you can buy from with confidence.

I've seen tests where they stopped a bunch of rounds-especially 855. James Jaeger is pushing this brand on YouTube-it doesn't look like bad stuff-but I could be wrong, since I am relatively new to the armor game. Is there another light weight plate (3-4lbs) that stops 855 that stands up to water and heat that is in the 400-500 range for a pair that are industry partners? What does that mean anyway "industry partner" is that like a sponsor or something?


Also as far as hdpe goes-the one I was looking at from spartan won't stop 855 :/,  I don't have any sort of maritime use in mind-I just am looking for a plate that would stand up in the event of needing to use it in a rugged environment.

Do you guys have any reccomend actions for a plate that would fit what I'm looking for? Does the armour wear one not look legit?

Thanks for all the feedback

Thank you for the info-that was very descriptive-I've always heard that they are fragile but never a threshold...I was under the impression that going prone could even cause it to break. And the water info out my mind to ease as well

I'm in the same boat as you I've been really looking hard at these plates, I just want something lightweight that stops 855 to run with in classes and these so far are at the top of my list.  At 4 pounds and the few videos I've seen of these plates getting shot I can't find a better deal.

Yeah I was pretty sold on them balistally speaking-they stop everything I'm really concerned with-I was just wondering about durability. Now I'm second guessing myself based on what oversteer said.:/

I look at it like this also I'm just a civilian that likes to train and take classes so the most it would have to stop is one, if shtf really happened I like you have ar500 also.

For sure, but if it ever did hit, I'd want my plates to become my edc-30 pounds in plates detracts from being able to wear them everywhere. I mean it's doable but I'm pretty sure my ar500 carrier weighs 40-50 lbs loaded up. I can't imagine maneuvering effectively in that. So I'd like to find something that's rugged and light :)

Ceramic plates are not fragile like people think, they are very tough. The only way they will break is if you throw them across the room onto a concrete floor or they are shot. Xray is the 100% sure way of knowing they dont have cracks but honestly no one does this, i dont even know where you would send them for this service, hell i dont even think the US gov scans their pates. As long as they dont make noise or bend when you attempt to flex them they are fine.

Im sure i will stir up a hornets nest saying this but the people who post on these forums saying ceramic plates suck and not to trust your life with them either have some stake in a company that sells a competing style of plate or are trying to justify to themselves why they went with heavy a$$ steel plates.

I understand not everyone can drop $1,000+ dollars on top of the line ceramic plates, especially if you dont use them for your job and are just prepping for the SHTF kind of stuff, and thats fine. But they need to stop making claims that steel plates are better than ceramic as its just not true.

Oh, and plates that are multi hit capable is for those who live in a mad maxx dream world. Ceramic is test for 3 shots, most decent ceramic plates can take 5-10, if i ever take that many rounds to the chest i am surely dead as i probably have been shot in each on of my limbs, head and areas of my torso not covered by my plate. And if after all of those wounds i was somehow still alive, chances are i couldnt freaking move and would be begging them to end my misery.

The irony is that I work at an X-ray place and could potentially get that done free-but I would never take a chance of anybody finding out about this kind of stuff.

I'm not sure if the armour  wear plates I'm looking at are actually ceramic-would the  plate most likely hold up the same way?

COMPOSITE: PE, Silicone Dioxide, and EIP Foam with miltuff finish

PE = Polyethylene = Plastic
Weight is 3.9 lb
Width is 1"

So no its not made of ceramic.

Lvl 3 10x12 ceramic plates should be about 1/2" thick and weigh about 5 lbs

Also, the last time i checked there are no PE or Steel plates on the market that can stop lvl 4 rounds, to do that you need ceramic.

A simple summary of your options.

Ceramic
Pro: light weight, can stop AP rounds
Con: expensive, can break (if handled like and idiot)

Polymer
Pro: very light weight (some float in water), multi hit capable (not necessary IMO), durable
Con: expensive, can only stop ball ammo, heat and some chemical can degrade the armor

Steel:
Pro: dirt cheap, multi hit capable (not necessary IMO), durable
Con: very heavy, can only stop ball ammo

if you just need a plate for SHTF and are on a budget AR500 works fine. Its heavy yes but for the couple times a year you war it and the slim chance you actually need armor it will get the job done. However, if you have money burning a hole in your pocket feel free to buy whatever you want.

i personally have a setup as good as if not better than most front lines soldiers yet i spend my days working in a cubicle. But hey i make good money and this is my hobby, some people fix up classic cars, ride motorcycle or buy the latest video games. i enjoy going to the range and being a one man militia. I usually end up spending more time answering questions about my gear than i do shooting but half of the fun is getting to interact with people and see their excitement when they get to shoot a machine gun or put on my gear.

Don't take this the wrong way-but if it stops the rounds, why does it need to be heavier? What is lacking in that extra 1-2 lbs? Is there something that inherently make this impossible? Or is this just healthy skepticism?

Spartikis said that the plate should be 5 lbs-meaning that the one I am looking at is deficient in some way. My question was that if I've seen videos of it stopping 855, shouln't I be in the clear? Or is there another component to it I am missing? Is it possible that they just advanced plate technology?

Not to answer for him, but I think this is where he is coming from:

A sub 5lb Level III "+" (not a real rating but for arguments sake we agree it most always applies to M855 and M193 in addition to Level III) from the leaders in the industry are at or above 5lb.  UHMWPE alone in armor size packages will not stop M855, it requires another (heavier) component.  Maybe steel, maybe ceramic.  

Please don't take this as disparaging the plates in question, but when you compare to others on the market and the technology that exists from leaders in the industry you will find that 5lb for that capability is pretty standard.  And the plate that is the newest in that class (FM3+) is just a hair under 5lb in a 10x12.  

Recommend you get the NIJ test data from them, they state they have available on request.  While they are not NIJ certified, if they are tested to standard it will be from one of the few US labs used to do the testing.

I wasn't saying there is anything wrong with those plates, I was just clarifying they were not made of ceramic because they only weigh 3.9 lbs. i know even the lighter top of the line lvl 3 ceramic plates weigh about 5 lbs and the lower quality ones are heavier.  the plates you are looking at are made of polymer, which is very light and are good plates.

Also as previously stated the "+" rating isn't a real rating but a made up rating usually indicating the plates can stop m855 which actually isn't a requirement of the nij lvl 3 testing.

Ok cool, I think I misread the way you worded the weight thing. Sorry for the mixup.

So basically I'm very interested in these plates-I realize they won't stop everything, but I've seen videos stopping 855 and several other calibers, and I feel that for the weight it's worth it.

I have emailed them for a copy of the lab report and several other questions about the plate durability-is there any reason you guys can think of that I should not pursue these plates?

It seems to me they're ok for what you have in mind.  Particularly if they send you the test results supporting their claim.

So far I have heard nothing from them-I've sent a couple emails over the past week or so. I'm thinking about calling but it's kind of hard to talk armor on the phone in the accounting department-maybe on a lunch break or something lol

PE, Silicone Dioxide, and EIP Foam with miltuff finish

I would pass.
There are thinner, standalone level fours that are close to the same weight and price. and you know
what you are getting with that. this, i say not since this is being questioned.

PE = polyethylene
Silicone dioxide = silica
EIP = expanding injected polyurethane foam

as stated someplace else in this thread (sorry forgot who) PE doesn't stop M855 so Si02 is supposed to do that.
the EIP, cant say exactly how that's being used but its not stopping anything.

I'm no expert here so..... thats what I would do.

I have not seen level 4 at that weight and price anywhere if so could you post a link, I would think if someone had them at that price and weight everyone would run those for armor.

I tried on my entire ar500 loadout today (spartan ar500) there was 30lb in plates, and another 20+ between the gun and the mags. I am a 6'4 240lb avid weightlifter/bodybuilder-I would like to think I am a fairly strong person-yet I can honestly say that there is no way I could carry that for any length of time longer than to repel off an invading force for say maybe an hour-it would just be too much weight, not to say I couldn't lift the weight, but I would simply not be able to move with any sort of speed or agility.

I absolutely love the idea of a level four plate, however the plates are still in that 8lb range-a weight savings I see as negligible despite how much I see then touted as "lightweight"-perhaps some level four exists out there that is 5-6 lbs, but that also comes with a $3,000 price tag. All this being said, I simply am not interested in any plate over 6lbs and am only mildly interested until it's in that 4~ or less range. I have 500-1000-preferably less to part with for a pair that fits this criteria.


I would love any info you have one anything that would fit what I am looking for, but I'm guessing it will most likely be go with a level 4 or settle with a lightweight Plastic plate and deal with lack of 855.

Yeah, Im still looking at these as well.  Im not as fit as you either.  My set up will be used for work stuff, which means that I'll probably be sitting around in this stuff for several hours at a time.....I cant imagine being ready to go after having 25+ lbs of plates alone.  

The only thing that bothers me about these are the potential lack of stopping M855.  I have several thousand rounds of the stuff laying around.  The old adage is to wear enough protection to stop what you carry.

Please post links of plates that are better, within this basic price range, and within the basic weight range of these plates.

Thanks.

I posted about these before - twice actually. It's "impressive" how often they keep coming up.

I won't go through the whole thing again but suffice it to say, the terminology used on that page, along with some of the claims, is a steaming pile of bullshit.

I just read through the thread in which you posted.  Thanks for the information.   I've decided to stay away from these at least.

I am very curious about this.. Are you talking about the Highcomm plates?

Quoted:
OK, I have heard what you guys have to say now I have some questions. I currently have my eye one three different plates all about the same price, weight and capability. They all appear to be more above board and within the reasonability standard as far as size, weight and price. They are Spartan Armor's 3+ plate, Grey Ghost Gear's 3+ and Renegade's 3+ plate. Have any of you heard anything positive or negative about these?

http://www.shellbacktactical.com/road-block-level-iv-plus-plates-1.aspx

http://www.greyghostgear.com/grey-ghost-plates/grey-ghost-level-iii-stand-alone-front-back-plates

https://www.thetargetman.com/product/level-iii-spartan-armor-defeats-m855-avanced-ceramiccomposite



I have received an in depth answer to all my questions as well as a NIJ ballistic report from Renegade, but don't know much about their company. I have emailed Grey Ghost but have yet to receive a reply and I have yet to contact Spartan about their plate.

Any info would be appreciated.

Also, if you know of any plates that fall into this category that would be a better option then please let me know.

So I have been emailing Renegade Armor and I am really interested in their level 3+ plate-Shellback Tactical has it on their website.
and I have received a copy of the NIJ lab report " />
" />

They were exceedingly helpful in helping me ascertain all of the information that I requested for the plate.
I further investigated on the NIJ listing page http://www.nij.gov/topics/technology/body-armor/Pages/compliant-ballistic-armor.aspx and found that Renegade has many different NIJ listed plates.

I also came across what looked like a city purchase order for Renegade Armor vests.

My question is, do they look like they are legit?/Has anybody here heard anything about them?

http://www.renegade-armor.com/product_p/470-15-40-01-0.htm  sadly they only sell direct to LEOs so the price is substantially higher than on their website.

That NIJ site that you are trying to link looks wonky in my browser.  Google JUSTNET and CPL to get to the main CPL listing site.  
When you get there, you can filter out results.  Use the filter to show only level III armor. Look at the Model Designation that Renegade Armor is listing.  






Now look at the rest of the list and look for the same numbers.  
You'll notice that there are many companies with that same number/model name listed.  What that means is that the original builder of the plate, the one that went through the certification process is building the plates for different listees.












OEM builds with different distributors/resellers/manufactures names on the label. The model numbers listed for Renegade Armor look real similar to the LTC numbering scheme. The weird part is that TenCate is showing on the NIJ test reports.  The CPL listed plates hint toward LTC, but you are being provided test reports for TenCate plates.





Ask for a compliance letter for the model that they are saying is NIJ 0101.06 certified to make sure.  When we add additional listees with NIJ for OEM manufacturing we get a compliance letter for that specific brand/label. They should have one available.
CHRIS

 
 
 
 
 
 

So if I can get the letter, then it's legit?

Also, I have just received an email from Grey Ghost Gear with there plate info and I would be about equally happy with either of these plates- however I have not received a lab report from Grey Ghost, but they are listed on that website as 3600 or 3610, I cant tell for sure because they both show as level 3 since there is no NIJ 3+. I noticed that this as well is listed for other manufacturers-I went to look at the websites of the other companies with 3600 and 3610's and I couldn't find any with a similar plate, but I was unsuccessful.

That being said would you recommend the same thing for both of them-asking for a compliance letter? What exactly does that letter prove?

For the specific manufacturer that I was referencing in my post, I would ask for a compliance letter.  The information provided doesn't jive.  If it is NIJ 0101.06 certified it will be on the CPL.  It will also have a compliance letter.  Verify.
The last part. That is up to you.  We handle many agency contracts and one of the first steps for each bid is to provide a compliance letter.  It proves that our armor has met the NIJ standards and that we have agreed to their requirements to be listed.
As an individual buying armor, if the company states that their product is certified, I would ask for proof.  If they can't provide the proof then I'd move on.





I'm also aware that sales staff and e-commerce guys will "upsale" their products without proper technical guidance.   Some of these companies may not be intentionally trying to mislead you.





Verify.  All legit companies expect it.
CHRIS