Level 3+ - AR15.COM

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Posted: 9/2/2014 8:52:45 PM EDT

Is anyone running these over level IV, I don't ever see myself getting shot at with AP rounds, I'm a civilian and just want a carrier for classes which I love to do, but I'm starting to take level 2 classes and a lot of instructors recommend a carrier. I have ar500 right now but it's heavy and just want lighter plates.

Posted: 9/2/2014 9:13:56 PM EDT

[#1]

in my mind lvl 4 is only a little extra wight and cost and is worth the peace of mind knowing my plates can stop everything a .50 bmg round

Posted: 9/2/2014 9:26:12 PM EDT

[#2]

All the level 3+ I've found have been under 4 pounds, really looking hard at the spartan plates

Posted: 9/2/2014 11:40:52 PM EDT

[#3]

Finding a decent set of poly plates that fit a pig PC....ugh

Posted: 9/3/2014 11:00:57 AM EDT

[#4]

Only a few posts in and this thread is already filled with misinformation.

In cases where the "+" designator is meant to indicate that the plate stops M855 Green Tip, I do not know of any III+ plates that are under 4 pounds. Some are under 5 pounds but no stand-alone that I have encountered is below 4 pounds in a 10"x12" or ESAPI Medium.

Level 4 plates do not stop .50 BMG. Even if they did, you would still be DRT, so it's irrelevant.

When talking about weight, with a difference between III+ to IV of approx. 1.5 lbs to as much as 3.5 lbs pounds per plate, that is not a small amount. Think of it this way: 1.5 lbs each means 3.0 pounds for a set. On a 30 pound carrier rig, that's ten percent less weight. Ask anyone who has BTDT and they will tell you that 1.5 lbs per plate is a very big difference indeed.

Posted: 9/3/2014 11:24:58 AM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Only a few posts in and this thread is already filled with misinformation.

In cases where the "+" designator is meant to indicate that the plate stops M855 Green Tip, I do not know of any III+ plates that are under 4 pounds. Some are under 5 pounds but no stand-alone that I have encountered is below 4 pounds in a 10"x12" or ESAPI Medium.

Level 4 plates do not stop .50 BMG. Even if they did, you would still be DRT, so it's irrelevant.

When talking about weight, with a difference between III+ to IV of approx. 1.5 lbs to as much as 3.5 lbs pounds per plate, that is not a small amount. Think of it this way: 1.5 lbs each means 3.0 pounds for a set. On a 30 pound carrier rig, that's ten percent less weight. Ask anyone who has BTDT and they will tell you that 1.5 lbs per plate is a very big difference indeed.

View Quote

I found these at 3.9 pounds http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html
and these which are not rated + but they stopped green tip in videos I've seen https://www.thetargetman.com/product/level-iii-uhmwpe-spartan-body-armor-formed-for-comfort/

Posted: 9/3/2014 1:16:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

I found these at 3.9 pounds http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html
and these which are not rated + but they stopped green tip in videos I've seen https://www.thetargetman.com/product/level-iii-uhmwpe-spartan-body-armor-formed-for-comfort/

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Only a few posts in and this thread is already filled with misinformation.

In cases where the "+" designator is meant to indicate that the plate stops M855 Green Tip, I do not know of any III+ plates that are under 4 pounds. Some are under 5 pounds but no stand-alone that I have encountered is below 4 pounds in a 10"x12" or ESAPI Medium.

Level 4 plates do not stop .50 BMG. Even if they did, you would still be DRT, so it's irrelevant.

When talking about weight, with a difference between III+ to IV of approx. 1.5 lbs to as much as 3.5 lbs pounds per plate, that is not a small amount. Think of it this way: 1.5 lbs each means 3.0 pounds for a set. On a 30 pound carrier rig, that's ten percent less weight. Ask anyone who has BTDT and they will tell you that 1.5 lbs per plate is a very big difference indeed.

I found these at 3.9 pounds http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html
and these which are not rated + but they stopped green tip in videos I've seen https://www.thetargetman.com/product/level-iii-uhmwpe-spartan-body-armor-formed-for-comfort/

For the first link provided, that is not a certified plate (and I'm aware that the "+" designation is not part of NIJ protocols). Also, from the site: "As a leader in Carbon Nano Tube technology" ... I stopped reading right there. They are not a leader in carbon nanotube technology, nor do they state that the plate actually contains any sort of carbon nanotube technology (hint: it doesn't).

Also, stating that the plate includes Silicon Dioxide is somewhat... odd, and here's why. Silicon Dioxide is mostly worthless as armor. It is used as part of the process for making Silicon Carbide, which is the least commonly used and most fragile of the three ceramic strike face varieties: silicon carbide, alumina oxide, and boron carbide (with two variants of the boron carbide - chemically sintered and hot pressed).

In short, they use a bunch of words but don't seem to understand what they actually mean when it comes to the process engineering involved for making armor. I would therefore not trust any claims made about that plate and would take it a step further, to say that I wouldn't trust a company that spews such crap.

As for the Spartan PE plate, you have not seen a video of M855 stopped by that plate. It will not stop it. The end. No discussion. Period. Nope. Won't.

For pure PE plates to even have the slightest chance of stopping Green Tip, they need to be approximately 11.5" thick, at a minimum, or a PSF of roughly thirty one pounds.

To people in general, please don't spread misinformation about body armor unless you are certain of the facts. Folks trust their lives to this stuff.

Posted: 9/3/2014 4:09:50 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

For the first link provided, that is not a certified plate (and I'm aware that the "+" designation is not part of NIJ protocols). Also, from the site: "As a leader in Carbon Nano Tube technology" ... I stopped reading right there. They are not a leader in carbon nanotube technology, nor do they state that the plate actually contains any sort of carbon nanotube technology (hint: it doesn't).

Also, stating that the plate includes Silicon Dioxide is somewhat... odd, and here's why. Silicon Dioxide is mostly worthless as armor. It is used as part of the process for making Silicon Carbide, which is the least commonly used and most fragile of the three ceramic strike face varieties: silicon carbide, alumina oxide, and boron carbide (with two variants of the boron carbide - chemically sintered and hot pressed).

In short, they use a bunch of words but don't seem to understand what they actually mean when it comes to the process engineering involved for making armor. I would therefore not trust any claims made about that plate and would take it a step further, to say that I wouldn't trust a company that spews such crap.

As for the Spartan PE plate, you have not seen a video of M855 stopped by that plate. It will not stop it. The end. No discussion. Period. Nope. Won't.

For pure PE plates to even have the slightest chance of stopping Green Tip, they need to be approximately 11.5" thick, at a minimum, or a PSF of roughly thirty one pounds.

To people in general, please don't spread misinformation about body armor unless you are certain of the facts. Folks trust their lives to this stuff.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Only a few posts in and this thread is already filled with misinformation.

In cases where the "+" designator is meant to indicate that the plate stops M855 Green Tip, I do not know of any III+ plates that are under 4 pounds. Some are under 5 pounds but no stand-alone that I have encountered is below 4 pounds in a 10"x12" or ESAPI Medium.

Level 4 plates do not stop .50 BMG. Even if they did, you would still be DRT, so it's irrelevant.

When talking about weight, with a difference between III+ to IV of approx. 1.5 lbs to as much as 3.5 lbs pounds per plate, that is not a small amount. Think of it this way: 1.5 lbs each means 3.0 pounds for a set. On a 30 pound carrier rig, that's ten percent less weight. Ask anyone who has BTDT and they will tell you that 1.5 lbs per plate is a very big difference indeed.

I found these at 3.9 pounds http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html
and these which are not rated + but they stopped green tip in videos I've seen https://www.thetargetman.com/product/level-iii-uhmwpe-spartan-body-armor-formed-for-comfort/

For the first link provided, that is not a certified plate (and I'm aware that the "+" designation is not part of NIJ protocols). Also, from the site: "As a leader in Carbon Nano Tube technology" ... I stopped reading right there. They are not a leader in carbon nanotube technology, nor do they state that the plate actually contains any sort of carbon nanotube technology (hint: it doesn't).

Also, stating that the plate includes Silicon Dioxide is somewhat... odd, and here's why. Silicon Dioxide is mostly worthless as armor. It is used as part of the process for making Silicon Carbide, which is the least commonly used and most fragile of the three ceramic strike face varieties: silicon carbide, alumina oxide, and boron carbide (with two variants of the boron carbide - chemically sintered and hot pressed).

In short, they use a bunch of words but don't seem to understand what they actually mean when it comes to the process engineering involved for making armor. I would therefore not trust any claims made about that plate and would take it a step further, to say that I wouldn't trust a company that spews such crap.

As for the Spartan PE plate, you have not seen a video of M855 stopped by that plate. It will not stop it. The end. No discussion. Period. Nope. Won't.

For pure PE plates to even have the slightest chance of stopping Green Tip, they need to be approximately 11.5" thick, at a minimum, or a PSF of roughly thirty one pounds.

To people in general, please don't spread misinformation about body armor unless you are certain of the facts. Folks trust their lives to this stuff.

So you would not buy either one of these plates I take it, I'm just trying to get some direction in light weight armor that I can run courses with if anyone can give me some ideas besides the expensive dkx armor.

Posted: 9/3/2014 4:41:29 PM EDT

[#8]

I went through the same thought process for the same
reason. I ended up with the IV plates,
the reason being that even though you are thinking only for a class, green tips
are very common for people taking classes and so… Twelve pounds seems like a lot even when you
are picking up the vest with the plates but if you get one with the triple
curve front and single curve back plus a super light weight carrier like the
JPC by Crye , they actually feel pretty light once you have them on and tight
against your body.

Posted: 9/3/2014 6:49:48 PM EDT

[#9]

I just recently bought a set of Hardwire level III+ plates off of ArmsUnlimited.com. I really like them so far. They're single curved, shooter's cut, and only weigh 4.25 pounds per plate, they have an NIJ cert (go on Hardwire's website, they list the warranty and the ballistics testing letter), and they're $189 a pop. Pretty good deal imho.

Posted: 9/3/2014 11:23:56 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

So you would not buy either one of these plates I take it, I'm just trying to get some direction in light weight armor that I can run courses with if anyone can give me some ideas besides the expensive dkx armor.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Only a few posts in and this thread is already filled with misinformation.

In cases where the "+" designator is meant to indicate that the plate stops M855 Green Tip, I do not know of any III+ plates that are under 4 pounds. Some are under 5 pounds but no stand-alone that I have encountered is below 4 pounds in a 10"x12" or ESAPI Medium.

Level 4 plates do not stop .50 BMG. Even if they did, you would still be DRT, so it's irrelevant.

When talking about weight, with a difference between III+ to IV of approx. 1.5 lbs to as much as 3.5 lbs pounds per plate, that is not a small amount. Think of it this way: 1.5 lbs each means 3.0 pounds for a set. On a 30 pound carrier rig, that's ten percent less weight. Ask anyone who has BTDT and they will tell you that 1.5 lbs per plate is a very big difference indeed.

I found these at 3.9 pounds http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html
and these which are not rated + but they stopped green tip in videos I've seen https://www.thetargetman.com/product/level-iii-uhmwpe-spartan-body-armor-formed-for-comfort/

For the first link provided, that is not a certified plate (and I'm aware that the "+" designation is not part of NIJ protocols). Also, from the site: "As a leader in Carbon Nano Tube technology" ... I stopped reading right there. They are not a leader in carbon nanotube technology, nor do they state that the plate actually contains any sort of carbon nanotube technology (hint: it doesn't).

Also, stating that the plate includes Silicon Dioxide is somewhat... odd, and here's why. Silicon Dioxide is mostly worthless as armor. It is used as part of the process for making Silicon Carbide, which is the least commonly used and most fragile of the three ceramic strike face varieties: silicon carbide, alumina oxide, and boron carbide (with two variants of the boron carbide - chemically sintered and hot pressed).

In short, they use a bunch of words but don't seem to understand what they actually mean when it comes to the process engineering involved for making armor. I would therefore not trust any claims made about that plate and would take it a step further, to say that I wouldn't trust a company that spews such crap.

As for the Spartan PE plate, you have not seen a video of M855 stopped by that plate. It will not stop it. The end. No discussion. Period. Nope. Won't.

For pure PE plates to even have the slightest chance of stopping Green Tip, they need to be approximately 11.5" thick, at a minimum, or a PSF of roughly thirty one pounds.

To people in general, please don't spread misinformation about body armor unless you are certain of the facts. Folks trust their lives to this stuff.

So you would not buy either one of these plates I take it, I'm just trying to get some direction in light weight armor that I can run courses with if anyone can give me some ideas besides the expensive dkx armor.

No, I would not buy those or DKX plates and I want to be clear that I'm just trying to provide some insight. You should definitely do plenty of research.

Posted: 9/6/2014 9:20:28 AM EDT

[#11]

I think I've decided on these http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html I just watched a vid of Yeager testing the plates from 7 yards, they put them thru they're paces and they held up. Like I said I'm a civilian and these would just be used for classes.

Posted: 9/13/2014 8:30:39 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I just recently bought a set of Hardwire level III+ plates off of ArmsUnlimited.com. I really like them so far. They're single curved, shooter's cut, and only weigh 4.25 pounds per plate, they have an NIJ cert (go on Hardwire's website, they list the warranty and the ballistics testing letter), and they're $189 a pop. Pretty good deal imho.

View Quote

I would want to know why they're testing those to the shield standard 0108.01 and not the typical plate standard .05/.06.

I have never seen that before and I sell armor for a living.

Seems very weird... I personally wouldn't trust those plates. Not at that standard and price.

Posted: 9/13/2014 10:36:11 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
I just recently bought a set of Hardwire level III+ plates off of ArmsUnlimited.com. I really like them so far. They're single curved, shooter's cut, and only weigh 4.25 pounds per plate, they have an NIJ cert (go on Hardwire's website, they list the warranty and the ballistics testing letter), and they're $189 a pop. Pretty good deal imho.

View Quote

Could you send a link to the plate you are referring? I believe you bought the trauma plate-which I inquired about to them directly-it is NOT rated as a stand alone to nij specs for BODY ARMOR it is a shield rating or something like that-so in essence it may stop the round but it may be 5 inches into you.

"No, our trauma plate cannot be used as a standalone body armor plate. Our
trauma plate is meant as an inexpesive add one which stops the same threats
but did not go through the full NIJ certification. If you need a standalone
plate, get the standard plate (HWOC12SC) which is very similar but fully
certified."

Posted: 9/13/2014 11:06:11 AM EDT

[#14]

Tag... Been looking for something lighter than the Midwest level IV plates....

Posted: 9/14/2014 6:52:46 AM EDT

[#15]

Tag.

Didn't James Yeager get one of those Armor-Wear lvl 4 plates to fail on the second hit after saying (direct quote from his previous video) "They're all multi-hit." ? The contradiction doesn't inspire confidence, though the price/weight looks attractive.

Posted: 9/14/2014 9:44:57 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Tag.

Didn't James Yeager get one of those Armor-Wear lvl 4 plates to fail on the second hit after saying (direct quote from his previous video) "They're all multi-hit." ? The contradiction doesn't inspire confidence, though the price/weight looks attractive.

View Quote

Yeah he got it to fail by putting a 7n6 round in the same hole as a 5.56 round, someone correct if I'm wrong but I think the multi-hit testing requires that shots are place an inch apart.

Posted: 9/14/2014 1:40:55 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

Yeah he got it to fail by putting a 7n6 round in the same hole as a 5.56 round, someone correct if I'm wrong but I think the multi-hit testing requires that shots are place an inch apart.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Tag.

Didn't James Yeager get one of those Armor-Wear lvl 4 plates to fail on the second hit after saying (direct quote from his previous video) "They're all multi-hit." ? The contradiction doesn't inspire confidence, though the price/weight looks attractive.

Yeah he got it to fail by putting a 7n6 round in the same hole as a 5.56 round, someone correct if I'm wrong but I think the multi-hit testing requires that shots are place an inch apart.

I was actually thinking of the 30-06 test against a level 4 plate. Different video, and they hits looked 2-3" apart.
ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chRQAw3fZpk

Posted: 9/14/2014 4:57:32 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

Could you send a link to the plate you are referring? I believe you bought the trauma plate-which I inquired about to them directly-it is NOT rated as a stand alone to nij specs for BODY ARMOR it is a shield rating or something like that-so in essence it may stop the round but it may be 5 inches into you.

"No, our trauma plate cannot be used as a standalone body armor plate. Our
trauma plate is meant as an inexpesive add one which stops the same threats
but did not go through the full NIJ certification. If you need a standalone
plate, get the standard plate (HWOC12SC) which is very similar but fully
certified."

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I just recently bought a set of Hardwire level III+ plates off of ArmsUnlimited.com. I really like them so far. They're single curved, shooter's cut, and only weigh 4.25 pounds per plate, they have an NIJ cert (go on Hardwire's website, they list the warranty and the ballistics testing letter), and they're $189 a pop. Pretty good deal imho.

Could you send a link to the plate you are referring? I believe you bought the trauma plate-which I inquired about to them directly-it is NOT rated as a stand alone to nij specs for BODY ARMOR it is a shield rating or something like that-so in essence it may stop the round but it may be 5 inches into you.

"No, our trauma plate cannot be used as a standalone body armor plate. Our
trauma plate is meant as an inexpesive add one which stops the same threats
but did not go through the full NIJ certification. If you need a standalone
plate, get the standard plate (HWOC12SC) which is very similar but fully
certified."

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Hardwire-10x12-Lightweight-Level-3-Ballistic-Plate-p/1012l3-bp.htm
It specifically says "Level III+" on the back. I'll pull them out tonight and check them out. I might have goofed, and if so I'll be pissed.

ETA: I looked at the link that I used to get them, and I guess it does say trauma plate, but they're advertised under "Lightweight ballistic plates." I feel like a total moron. The description fails to explain anything at all. So it's not "false advertising," it's just a good way to get morons like me to believe that I had actually bought standalone armor plates when in reality I didn't.

. If I put soft armor underneath it, will it help? Or do nothing at all?

Posted: 9/14/2014 5:34:30 PM EDT

[#19]

You guys should go to Highcom when they have a sale and get squared away.

Posted: 9/14/2014 5:45:44 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
You guys should go to Highcom when they have a sale and get squared away.

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They had a really good labor day sale going for a while there.

Posted: 9/15/2014 10:44:36 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

I would want to know why they're testing those to the shield standard 0108.01 and not the typical plate standard .05/.06.

I have never seen that before and I sell armor for a living.

Seems very weird... I personally wouldn't trust those plates. Not at that standard and price.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I just recently bought a set of Hardwire level III+ plates off of ArmsUnlimited.com. I really like them so far. They're single curved, shooter's cut, and only weigh 4.25 pounds per plate, they have an NIJ cert (go on Hardwire's website, they list the warranty and the ballistics testing letter), and they're $189 a pop. Pretty good deal imho.

I would want to know why they're testing those to the shield standard 0108.01 and not the typical plate standard .05/.06.

I have never seen that before and I sell armor for a living.

Seems very weird... I personally wouldn't trust those plates. Not at that standard and price.

I can tell you why: because they would not pass the NIJ0101.06 standard.

The 08 standard is merely "stops a bullet", while the 06 standard is "stops six bullets, with the first two having blunt force trauma / backface deformation of less than 44MM".

That's a massive difference in performance standards.

[ETA] And anyone who lists a plate as level III+ and then later calls it a trauma plate should not be in the industry. I quite literally hope that they - and everyone like them - go out of business.

Posted: 9/15/2014 10:50:30 AM EDT

[#22]

So, in this thread...

1) people ask for advice on armor
2) post links to armor, asking if it's any good
3) get advised against buying the linked armor
4) buy the armor anyway, because "Yeager and shit"
5) complain when they discover that the plates turn out to actually be crap

If you don't think there are people here who can offer good advice, why ask or come here at all? Why not just buy whatever Yeager recommends?

Posted: 9/15/2014 10:54:49 AM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
So, in this thread...

1) people ask for advice on armor
2) post links to armor, asking if it's any good
3) get advised against buying the linked armor
4) buy the armor anyway, because "Yeager and shit"
5) complain when they discover that the plates turn out to actually be crap

If you don't think there are people here who can offer good advice, why ask at all? Why not just buy whatever Yeager recommends?

View Quote

Uhh...no. I already had the plates. I wasn't asking whether or not I should get them. I think you might be confusing me with OP.

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:08:11 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
You guys should go to Highcom when they have a sale and get squared away.

View Quote

Agreed. I was quite impressed with their plates.

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:11:58 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

Uhh...no. I already had the plates. I wasn't asking whether or not I should get them. I think you might be confusing me with OP.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
So, in this thread...

1) people ask for advice on armor
2) post links to armor, asking if it's any good
3) get advised against buying the linked armor
4) buy the armor anyway, because "Yeager and shit"
5) complain when they discover that the plates turn out to actually be crap

If you don't think there are people here who can offer good advice, why ask at all? Why not just buy whatever Yeager recommends?

Uhh...no. I already had the plates. I wasn't asking whether or not I should get them. I think you might be confusing me with OP.

Although a bit of a generalization, it was meant more about the OP's train of thought.

"Are these plates any good?"
"No."
"Great! I'll get some."

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:12:17 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

[b]Quoted:
Could you send a link to the plate you are referring? I believe you bought the trauma plate-which I inquired about to them directly-it is NOT rated as a stand alone to nij specs for BODY ARMOR it is a shield rating or something like that-so in essence it may stop the round but it may be 5 inches into you
ETA: I looked at the link that I used to get them, and I guess it does say trauma plate, but they're advertised under "Lightweight ballistic plates." I feel like a total moron. The description fails to explain anything at all. So it's not "false advertising," it's just a good way to get morons like me to believe that I had actually bought standalone armor plates when in reality I didn't.

. If I put soft armor underneath it, will it help? Or do nothing at all?

View Quote

Absolutely bad advertising, coupled by poor and lacking sources of information-especially the NIJ standard for ballistic shields being referenced to give the appearance of the normal standard. To hardwires credit they were quick and honest when I inquired, but botach, the place i first saw these was selling them in a carrier as a stand alone-something clearly giving the impression of being stand alone. I'm sorry for that man-from my corresponce with them I believe you can use it as an "under the table in conjunction" plate to up your protection to 3+ But without official NIJ paperwork but I am NOT sure.

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:23:03 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
So, in this thread...

1) people ask for advice on armor
2) post links to armor, asking if it's any good
3) get advised against buying the linked armor
4) buy the armor anyway, because "Yeager and shit"
5) complain when they discover that the plates turn out to actually be crap

If you don't think there are people here who can offer good advice, why ask or come here at all? Why not just buy whatever Yeager recommends?

View Quote

Asking questions to see if anyone has these plates I would think is a legit question, the only person that's giving advise against these plates is you.
I have seen no proof yet that these plates are crap plates, just some people saying what they think at least they have 2 videos out with these plates stopping steel core ammo. Which goes back to my original question of a light weight plate that stops green tip just to run in classes I'm not an operator or pretend to be one on the internet

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:34:53 AM EDT

[#28]

[Edit] Never mind. I'm out. Anyone who buys from that company deserves what they get.

[Edit2] And if you're looking for Chinese plates, they carry those too! Right here.

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:37:43 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
[Edit] Never mind. I'm out. Anyone who buys from that company deserves what they get.

View Quote

Which company

Posted: 9/15/2014 1:14:04 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
[Edit] Never mind. I'm out. Anyone who buys from that company deserves what they get.

[Edit2] And if you're looking for Chinese plates, they carry those too! Right here.

View Quote

They say those are made in Florida, do you have any evidence to support what you are saying? I'm genuinely curious as I was looking at their 3+ plate but I am kinda in that too good to be true alert mode

Posted: 9/15/2014 2:51:19 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

They say those are made in Florida, do you have any evidence to support what you are saying? I'm genuinely curious as I was looking at their 3+ plate but I am kinda in that too good to be true alert mode

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
[Edit] Never mind. I'm out. Anyone who buys from that company deserves what they get.

[Edit2] And if you're looking for Chinese plates, they carry those too! Right here.

They say those are made in Florida, do you have any evidence to support what you are saying? I'm genuinely curious as I was looking at their 3+ plate but I am kinda in that too good to be true alert mode

I sent an email to the company asking for they're nij test procedures and lab reports I'll see if they get back with me. I'm curious and I'm not going to bad mouth and assume I'm trying to get as much info on these plates as possible.

Posted: 9/15/2014 7:13:04 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Hardwire-10x12-Lightweight-Level-3-Ballistic-Plate-p/1012l3-bp.htm
It specifically says "Level III+" on the back. I'll pull them out tonight and check them out. I might have goofed, and if so I'll be pissed.

ETA: I looked at the link that I used to get them, and I guess it does say trauma plate, but they're advertised under "Lightweight ballistic plates." I feel like a total moron. The description fails to explain anything at all. So it's not "false advertising," it's just a good way to get morons like me to believe that I had actually bought standalone armor plates when in reality I didn't.

. If I put soft armor underneath it, will it help? Or do nothing at all?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I just recently bought a set of Hardwire level III+ plates off of ArmsUnlimited.com. I really like them so far. They're single curved, shooter's cut, and only weigh 4.25 pounds per plate, they have an NIJ cert (go on Hardwire's website, they list the warranty and the ballistics testing letter), and they're $189 a pop. Pretty good deal imho.

Could you send a link to the plate you are referring? I believe you bought the trauma plate-which I inquired about to them directly-it is NOT rated as a stand alone to nij specs for BODY ARMOR it is a shield rating or something like that-so in essence it may stop the round but it may be 5 inches into you.

"No, our trauma plate cannot be used as a standalone body armor plate. Our
trauma plate is meant as an inexpesive add one which stops the same threats
but did not go through the full NIJ certification. If you need a standalone
plate, get the standard plate (HWOC12SC) which is very similar but fully
certified."

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Hardwire-10x12-Lightweight-Level-3-Ballistic-Plate-p/1012l3-bp.htm
It specifically says "Level III+" on the back. I'll pull them out tonight and check them out. I might have goofed, and if so I'll be pissed.

ETA: I looked at the link that I used to get them, and I guess it does say trauma plate, but they're advertised under "Lightweight ballistic plates." I feel like a total moron. The description fails to explain anything at all. So it's not "false advertising," it's just a good way to get morons like me to believe that I had actually bought standalone armor plates when in reality I didn't.

. If I put soft armor underneath it, will it help? Or do nothing at all?

Its not ALL bad. now you know. better than thinking you were safe and were not when it mattered

Posted: 9/15/2014 11:47:38 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

Its not ALL bad. now you know. better than thinking you were safe and were not when it mattered

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I just recently bought a set of Hardwire level III+ plates off of ArmsUnlimited.com. I really like them so far. They're single curved, shooter's cut, and only weigh 4.25 pounds per plate, they have an NIJ cert (go on Hardwire's website, they list the warranty and the ballistics testing letter), and they're $189 a pop. Pretty good deal imho.

Could you send a link to the plate you are referring? I believe you bought the trauma plate-which I inquired about to them directly-it is NOT rated as a stand alone to nij specs for BODY ARMOR it is a shield rating or something like that-so in essence it may stop the round but it may be 5 inches into you.

"No, our trauma plate cannot be used as a standalone body armor plate. Our
trauma plate is meant as an inexpesive add one which stops the same threats
but did not go through the full NIJ certification. If you need a standalone
plate, get the standard plate (HWOC12SC) which is very similar but fully
certified."

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Hardwire-10x12-Lightweight-Level-3-Ballistic-Plate-p/1012l3-bp.htm
It specifically says "Level III+" on the back. I'll pull them out tonight and check them out. I might have goofed, and if so I'll be pissed.

ETA: I looked at the link that I used to get them, and I guess it does say trauma plate, but they're advertised under "Lightweight ballistic plates." I feel like a total moron. The description fails to explain anything at all. So it's not "false advertising," it's just a good way to get morons like me to believe that I had actually bought standalone armor plates when in reality I didn't.

. If I put soft armor underneath it, will it help? Or do nothing at all?

Its not ALL bad. now you know. better than thinking you were safe and were not when it mattered

That's true, but it doesn't solve my problem. If I can put some level IIIa backers behind those plates to bring up their threat level then it'll be ok, but if not, then I'm not sure what there is to be done.

Posted: 9/16/2014 10:08:42 PM EDT

[#34]

OK, I have heard what you guys have to say now I have some questions. I currently have my eye one three different plates all about the same price, weight and capability. They all appear to be more above board and within the reasonability standard as far as size, weight and price. They are Spartan Armor's 3+ plate, Grey Ghost Gear's 3+ and Renegade's 3+ plate. Have any of you heard anything positive or negative about these?

http://www.shellbacktactical.com/road-block-level-iv-plus-plates-1.aspx

http://www.greyghostgear.com/grey-ghost-plates/grey-ghost-level-iii-stand-alone-front-back-plates

https://www.thetargetman.com/product/level-iii-spartan-armor-defeats-m855-avanced-ceramiccomposite

I have received an in depth answer to all my questions as well as a ballistic report from Renegade, but don't know much about their company. I have emailed Grey Ghost but have yet to receive a reply and I have yet to contact Spartan about their plate.

Any info would be appreciated.

Also, if you know of any plates that fall into this category that would be a better option then please let me know.

Posted: 9/17/2014 12:04:35 AM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
OK, I have heard what you guys have to say now I have some questions. I currently have my eye one three different plates all about the same price, weight and capability. They all appear to be more above board and within the reasonability standard as far as size, weight and price. They are Spartan Armor's 3+ plate, Grey Ghost Gear's 3+ and Renegade's 3+ plate. Have any of you heard anything positive or negative about these?

http://www.shellbacktactical.com/road-block-level-iv-plus-plates-1.aspx

http://www.greyghostgear.com/grey-ghost-plates/grey-ghost-level-iii-stand-alone-front-back-plates

https://www.thetargetman.com/product/level-iii-spartan-armor-defeats-m855-avanced-ceramiccomposite

I have received an in depth answer to all my questions as well as a ballistic report from Renegade, but don't know much about their company. I have emailed Grey Ghost but have yet to receive a reply and I have yet to contact Spartan about their plate.

Any info would be appreciated.

Also, if you know of any plates that fall into this category that would be a better option then please let me know.

View Quote

I emailed armour wear and they explained their process and even offered a factory tour if I was ever in the florida area seems like stand up guys to me and out of the three plates you listed theres claim to be lighter than all of those and slightly cheaper, they also have a couple of videos up on youtube. http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html

Posted: 9/17/2014 2:43:37 AM EDT

[#36]

Layer60 seems like a troll, case in point, his first post says he stops reading at the first portion of the sentence because of his vast knowledge of a company he does not work for...or if he did, he had a bad experience and got let-go/quit. There are several videos put forth by Armour-wear of the plates taking rounds and holding up where as the ACTUAL Chinese plate they take apart is a bunch of shingles stacked together and isn't even the size it claims/advertises to be. Kind of like the other arfcom member that got screwed on the supposedly stand alone plates.

Now why do I say all this? Drum roll and big reveal, I have the level 3+ plates and my review is up on their website Armour Wear for those exact plates. I in no way claim that I have industry experience so I don't stand to profit. PLEASE PUT UP A VIDEO PROVING THE COMPANY WRONG! If you don't want to or don't think you need to, that is fine, but understand it devalues your opinion as you continue to spout constant negativity. Plenty of places advertise 3+ plates, but not all of them put up videos of them getting shot. I standby behind the plates and have them currently in my kdh gen 1 plate carrier with soft armor in, regardless of the stand alone rating. I do this to account for trauma with the plates.

I'm sorry if this pissing contest is further fueled by my post, but seriously, this is the best compromise of mobility vs protection and anyone who says otherwise is not taking into account different body structures/gear being used/climate/terrain/etc. I rocked an interceptor vest for 2 years of drills in marine corps infantry reserves unit 2/23...too cumbersome and lots of coverage making you feel like a turtle

ARMOUR-WEAR IS NOT THE BEST, BUT THEY ARE GOOD (Tour their factory if need be (God knows I'd like to), but I am not going to knock a product, discredit it, and pick apart what little I read of their description because I think I know best in the face of the videos)

Posted: 9/17/2014 7:13:51 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

I emailed armour wear and they explained their process and even offered a factory tour if I was ever in the florida area seems like stand up guys to me and out of the three plates you listed theres claim to be lighter than all of those and slightly cheaper, they also have a couple of videos up on youtube. http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html

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When was this? I emailed them multiple times a week ago and have yet to receive an answer. It seems fishy that they are a pound lighter than the rest of these yet half the cost, that coupled by the skepticism means I'm currently not willing to risk my life with them until I get sufficient proof that they have good stuff, could you post your email from them? I really really want their stuff to be legit as it would save me 500 and 2lbs on my loadout but right now up skeptical.

Posted: 9/17/2014 11:29:01 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Layer60 seems like a troll, case in point, his first post says he stops reading at the first portion of the sentence because of his vast knowledge of a company he does not work for...or if he did, he had a bad experience and got let-go/quit. There are several videos put forth by Armour-wear of the plates taking rounds and holding up where as the ACTUAL Chinese plate they take apart is a bunch of shingles stacked together and isn't even the size it claims/advertises to be. Kind of like the other arfcom member that got screwed on the supposedly stand alone plates.

Now why do I say all this? Drum roll and big reveal, I have the level 3+ plates and my review is up on their website Armour Wear for those exact plates. I in no way claim that I have industry experience so I don't stand to profit. PLEASE PUT UP A VIDEO PROVING THE COMPANY WRONG! If you don't want to or don't think you need to, that is fine, but understand it devalues your opinion as you continue to spout constant negativity. Plenty of places advertise 3+ plates, but not all of them put up videos of them getting shot. I standby behind the plates and have them currently in my kdh gen 1 plate carrier with soft armor in, regardless of the stand alone rating. I do this to account for trauma with the plates.

I'm sorry if this pissing contest is further fueled by my post, but seriously, this is the best compromise of mobility vs protection and anyone who says otherwise is not taking into account different body structures/gear being used/climate/terrain/etc. I rocked an interceptor vest for 2 years of drills in marine corps infantry reserves unit 2/23...too cumbersome and lots of coverage making you feel like a turtle

ARMOUR-WEAR IS NOT THE BEST, BUT THEY ARE GOOD (Tour their factory if need be (God knows I'd like to), but I am not going to knock a product, discredit it, and pick apart what little I read of their description because I think I know best in the face of the videos)

View Quote

I'd be sure of who you are bad mouthing before you post comments like that. Layer60 works in the industry and his opinion is well respected around here.
Many times he has give unpopular advice but I can't think of a single time he has given bad advice. Like it or not he honestly is trying to help you and others.

Posted: 9/17/2014 12:16:30 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'd be sure of who you are bad mouthing before you post comments like that. Layer60 works in the industry and his opinion is well respected around here.
Many times he has give unpopular advice but I can't think of a single time he has given bad advice. Like it or not he honestly is trying to help you and others.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Layer60 seems like a troll, case in point, his first post says he stops reading at the first portion of the sentence because of his vast knowledge of a company he does not work for...or if he did, he had a bad experience and got let-go/quit. There are several videos put forth by Armour-wear of the plates taking rounds and holding up where as the ACTUAL Chinese plate they take apart is a bunch of shingles stacked together and isn't even the size it claims/advertises to be. Kind of like the other arfcom member that got screwed on the supposedly stand alone plates.

Now why do I say all this? Drum roll and big reveal, I have the level 3+ plates and my review is up on their website Armour Wear for those exact plates. I in no way claim that I have industry experience so I don't stand to profit. PLEASE PUT UP A VIDEO PROVING THE COMPANY WRONG! If you don't want to or don't think you need to, that is fine, but understand it devalues your opinion as you continue to spout constant negativity. Plenty of places advertise 3+ plates, but not all of them put up videos of them getting shot. I standby behind the plates and have them currently in my kdh gen 1 plate carrier with soft armor in, regardless of the stand alone rating. I do this to account for trauma with the plates.

I'm sorry if this pissing contest is further fueled by my post, but seriously, this is the best compromise of mobility vs protection and anyone who says otherwise is not taking into account different body structures/gear being used/climate/terrain/etc. I rocked an interceptor vest for 2 years of drills in marine corps infantry reserves unit 2/23...too cumbersome and lots of coverage making you feel like a turtle

ARMOUR-WEAR IS NOT THE BEST, BUT THEY ARE GOOD (Tour their factory if need be (God knows I'd like to), but I am not going to knock a product, discredit it, and pick apart what little I read of their description because I think I know best in the face of the videos)

I'd be sure of who you are bad mouthing before you post comments like that. Layer60 works in the industry and his opinion is well respected around here.
Many times he has give unpopular advice but I can't think of a single time he has given bad advice. Like it or not he honestly is trying to help you and others.

Yes he is. Well said.

Posted: 9/17/2014 2:36:12 PM EDT

[#40]

Layer60 may work in the industry, that doesn't make him SEEM like a troll. Layer60 may very well have superior knowledge than all or any of us when it comes to body armor, that does not make him SEEM like a troll. I'm using the first sentence, first portion of what I wrote to clarify what I am talking about as an example of how he conveyed his thoughts. He is very dismissive and did not even read all of what they wrote due to his first hand experience and explains it as Armour-wear doesn't know what they are talking about. He did not go in depth or be analytical to compare his plates vs armour-wear. He did not upload a video providing demonstration of why he believed what he believed. He calls the plates Chinese when Armour-Wear rips apart a Chinese plate and shows you the shingles.

What I am really getting at here is that his presentation of info is what I am calling out. If he is an industry member of producing body armor, fine. If he is an industry LEADER (how he is coming across due to his attitude in MY EYES), then he would showcase why he believes what he does. Otherwise, it's just the same thing as Yaeger saying 1911 sucks. Layer60 is entitled to his opinion as that's freedom of speech just as I am entitled to mine.

I actually am here to learn and not here to call him a douchnozzle nor do I think he is one. No, I actually am wanting to hear what he has to say in a comparison, not conjecture AGAIN, IF I CAN TAKE AWAY SOMETHING AND LEARN, AWESOME. IF someone wants to bad mouth products without providing any analysis, I question all of them, whether it be on a forum or a review on a product. It's the same thing as saying "2 OUT OF 5 STARs review for a product IT'S THE BEST THING EVER. ITS BETTER THAN THIS THIS THIS, BUT THIS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BRANDED PRODUCT I LIKE MORE with no explanation as to why and that's the end of the review. It doesn't come across as informative, it comes across as prideful. AGAIN, here to learn

Posted: 9/17/2014 3:38:20 PM EDT

[#41]

Rather than infer that someone is a Duuchenozzel why don't you ask the question you specifically want an answer to? (such as: Why do you believe plate X is made in China?)
I get that you're new around here and all but this topic has been covered, recovered and covered again.

Ar15.com recommends buying from a reputable dealer such as:
http://store.appalachiantraining.com/mobile/Category.aspx?id=1875
http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Rifle_Protection.shtml
http://highcomsecurity.com

Just know that if you are too proud to listen, ask questions or follow someone else's recommendation that you may end up with level 3+ trauma plates or 10 lb plates that are supposed to weigh 7.5 lbs.
It's your body that armor is protecting so no one else is really going to care what you do, just please don't encourage others to buy stuff that is not reputable.

Posted: 9/18/2014 2:10:51 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:[/b]
Rather than infer that someone is a Duuchenozzel why don't you ask the question you specifically want an answer to? (such as: Why do you believe plate X is made in China?)
Ar15.com recommends buying from a reputable dealer such as:
http://store.appalachiantraining.com
http://www.bulletproofme.com
http://highcomsecurity.com

"I actually am here to learn and not here to call him a douchnozzle nor do I think he is one." Had some trouble with reading that sentence I see, look I won't post anymore after this (probably where you will stop reading is right here) because obviously this is getting no where and my words aren't being read anyhow and being taken out of context from how I originally intended them to be.

Reputable is debatable when you can't answer any of why he thinks what he does. All you have is he is in the industry. If you want to jump to his rescue to defend his opinion, fine that is alright with me, but if someone wants to "cheap-out" when there are videos demonstrating the capabilities and differences between their plates as opposed to all of the websites you listed, don't be surprised if they go the cheaper route that is actually backed by videos put out by the actual company selling the plates. The only company you listed that had an actual firearms test vid on youtube was highcom security for SOFT PANELS. Armour-wear actually puts out several videos of the plates being shot. Sure they stand to profit, but so does all of those websites you listed that are backed by ar15.com (the whole reason they are probably backed in the first place).

I actually had problems in dealing with Armour-wear. They are far from perfect and are a new business. THEY ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL, BUT THEY ARE NOT AS BAD AS YOU PUT THEM OUT TO BE. That is all.

Posted: 9/18/2014 7:30:09 AM EDT

[#43]

Lol

Posted: 9/18/2014 2:46:38 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

"I actually am here to learn and not here to call him a douchnozzle nor do I think he is one." Had some trouble with reading that sentence I see, look I won't post anymore after this (probably where you will stop reading is right here) because obviously this is getting no where and my words aren't being read anyhow and being taken out of context from how I originally intended them to be.

Reputable is debatable when you can't answer any of why he thinks what he does. All you have is he is in the industry. If you want to jump to his rescue to defend his opinion, fine that is alright with me, but if someone wants to "cheap-out" when there are videos demonstrating the capabilities and differences between their plates as opposed to all of the websites you listed, don't be surprised if they go the cheaper route that is actually backed by videos put out by the actual company selling the plates. The only company you listed that had an actual firearms test vid on youtube was highcom security for SOFT PANELS. Armour-wear actually puts out several videos of the plates being shot. Sure they stand to profit, but so does all of those websites you listed that are backed by ar15.com (the whole reason they are probably backed in the first place).

I actually had problems in dealing with Armour-wear. They are far from perfect and are a new business. THEY ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL, BUT THEY ARE NOT AS BAD AS YOU PUT THEM OUT TO BE. That is all.

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I tend to agree with what you are saying, by being in the industry I am happy to lend an ear to gain from his knowledge, but am also aware he had a stake in convincing me that they are bad so I look to his. I would be more than happy to listen, I'd just like a little more info on why they're bad. I mean this in the most respectful way possible.

Posted: 9/18/2014 6:52:58 PM EDT

[#45]

To be clear, I am retired from the industry. I have nothing to gain or lose by your choices; only you do.

Posted: 9/18/2014 7:57:38 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:

To be clear, I am retired from the industry. I have nothing to gain or lose by your choices; only you do.

View Quote

CHRIS

Posted: 9/18/2014 8:23:11 PM EDT

[#47]

If you read Layer60's 2nd post in this thread he gives his reasons for not recommending the armor-wear plates. Some of their marketing doesn't even make sense in context, which could be as simple as the person making the website is not knowledgeable about armor and used the wrong words. Not trying to start a fight, but he did seem to answer the questions some are asking.

Posted: 9/23/2014 1:23:15 PM EDT

[#48]

By all means please ignore any and all advice from people who actually base their opinion on real world training and experience to justify buying an inferior product to save a few $$$.

Stay Safe,
Rob

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