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Posted: 4/13/2014 7:10:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I was wondering how often Midwest has sales on there site and what people thought of the GUARDIAN IV NIJ05 plates. Thanks. I have no personal experience with them but they are a great low budget option for ceramic armor. Not the lightest and they tend to spall of fragments but will stop a lot of types of rounds. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 7:15:03 PM EDT
[#2]
My only concern is the number of rounds before failure though.
I am leaning towards it though but I have heard that it can only take a handful of rounds. Would go AR500 but I hear 5.56 can go through it. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 7:39:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My only concern is the number of rounds before failure though. I am leaning towards it though but I have heard that it can only take a handful of rounds. Would go AR500 but I hear 5.56 can go through it. If someone is able to put more than one round on you at a time chances are you are going to be shot in the arms, legs, and head effectively taking you out of the fight. The main concern able the guardian plate is how durable it is to every-day abuse. 5.56 won't zip right through steel unless it is specifically made to be armor piercing. It will stop m855 and m193 as evidenced by many videos of steel plate testing. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 8:20:39 PM EDT
[#4]
I have a set of their MASS III plates. I love the plates. I forget if it took Midwest Armor 1 month or 2 months to ship them after I ordered. Anyway, it did take a little while. I've never seen them have a sale, though I think there is a discount code on "Mr.GunsandGear"'s YouTube channel/video he did of the ceramic plates.
For the price, I'm also thinking of picking up a set of the Guardian ceramic plates also just to keep around. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 5:27:32 AM EDT
[#5]
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If someone is able to put more than one round on you at a time chances are you are going to be shot in the arms, legs, and head effectively taking you out of the fight. The main concern able the guardian plate is how durable it is to every-day abuse. 5.56 won't zip right through steel unless it is specifically made to be armor piercing. It will stop m855 and m193 as evidenced by many videos of steel plate testing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My only concern is the number of rounds before failure though. I am leaning towards it though but I have heard that it can only take a handful of rounds. Would go AR500 but I hear 5.56 can go through it. If someone is able to put more than one round on you at a time chances are you are going to be shot in the arms, legs, and head effectively taking you out of the fight. The main concern able the guardian plate is how durable it is to every-day abuse. 5.56 won't zip right through steel unless it is specifically made to be armor piercing. It will stop m855 and m193 as evidenced by many videos of steel plate testing. Good points and all true. What does it for me is the weight at 7 pounds is 3lbs lighter per plate than the 10 pound AR500 armor I had from The Target Man. 6 pounds is a lot of weight. Also The multi curve option with ceramic is awesome, single curve sucks. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:52:22 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If someone is able to put more than one round on you at a time chances are you are going to be shot in the arms, legs, and head effectively taking you out of the fight. The main concern able the guardian plate is how durable it is to every-day abuse. 5.56 won't zip right through steel unless it is specifically made to be armor piercing. It will stop m855 and m193 as evidenced by many videos of steel plate testing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My only concern is the number of rounds before failure though. I am leaning towards it though but I have heard that it can only take a handful of rounds. Would go AR500 but I hear 5.56 can go through it. If someone is able to put more than one round on you at a time chances are you are going to be shot in the arms, legs, and head effectively taking you out of the fight. The main concern able the guardian plate is how durable it is to every-day abuse. 5.56 won't zip right through steel unless it is specifically made to be armor piercing. It will stop m855 and m193 as evidenced by many videos of steel plate testing. yes and no. m193 WILL/CAN zip right through most ar500 lvl3 plates and we did it repeatedly. m855 was stopped every time. know the ratings and what your buying. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:30:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes and no. m193 WILL/CAN zip right through most ar500 lvl3 plates and we did it repeatedly. m855 was stopped every time. know the ratings and what your buying. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My only concern is the number of rounds before failure though. I am leaning towards it though but I have heard that it can only take a handful of rounds. Would go AR500 but I hear 5.56 can go through it. If someone is able to put more than one round on you at a time chances are you are going to be shot in the arms, legs, and head effectively taking you out of the fight. The main concern able the guardian plate is how durable it is to every-day abuse. 5.56 won't zip right through steel unless it is specifically made to be armor piercing. It will stop m855 and m193 as evidenced by many videos of steel plate testing. yes and no. m193 WILL/CAN zip right through most ar500 lvl3 plates and we did it repeatedly. m855 was stopped every time. know the ratings and what your buying. At what range? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:38:06 AM EDT
[#8]
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At what range? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My only concern is the number of rounds before failure though. I am leaning towards it though but I have heard that it can only take a handful of rounds. Would go AR500 but I hear 5.56 can go through it. If someone is able to put more than one round on you at a time chances are you are going to be shot in the arms, legs, and head effectively taking you out of the fight. The main concern able the guardian plate is how durable it is to every-day abuse. 5.56 won't zip right through steel unless it is specifically made to be armor piercing. It will stop m855 and m193 as evidenced by many videos of steel plate testing. yes and no. m193 WILL/CAN zip right through most ar500 lvl3 plates and we did it repeatedly. m855 was stopped every time. know the ratings and what your buying. At what range? inside 100 was consistent with almost 80% cutting through the steel. inside 50 was 100%. this was m-193 on our kevlar wrapped ar500 lvl3 steel plates. lvl3 is NOT rated for m-193 so none of it was a surprise. the fact it stopped any of it was a testament to the quality of the plates in general. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 11:09:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
inside 100 was consistent with almost 80% cutting through the steel. inside 50 was 100%. this was m-193 on our kevlar wrapped ar500 lvl3 steel plates. lvl3 is NOT rated for m-193 so none of it was a surprise. the fact it stopped any of it was a testament to the quality of the plates in general. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My only concern is the number of rounds before failure though. I am leaning towards it though but I have heard that it can only take a handful of rounds. Would go AR500 but I hear 5.56 can go through it. If someone is able to put more than one round on you at a time chances are you are going to be shot in the arms, legs, and head effectively taking you out of the fight. The main concern able the guardian plate is how durable it is to every-day abuse. 5.56 won't zip right through steel unless it is specifically made to be armor piercing. It will stop m855 and m193 as evidenced by many videos of steel plate testing. yes and no. m193 WILL/CAN zip right through most ar500 lvl3 plates and we did it repeatedly. m855 was stopped every time. know the ratings and what your buying. At what range? inside 100 was consistent with almost 80% cutting through the steel. inside 50 was 100%. this was m-193 on our kevlar wrapped ar500 lvl3 steel plates. lvl3 is NOT rated for m-193 so none of it was a surprise. the fact it stopped any of it was a testament to the quality of the plates in general. TBS, what length of barrel were you shooting the M193 from? I shot an ar500 plate with M193 from both a 16" and 20" barrel. The M193 zipped right through with the 20" but stopped all rounds from the 16". This was at about 30 yards. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:00:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TBS, what length of barrel were you shooting the M193 from? I shot an ar500 plate with M193 from both a 16" and 20" barrel. The M193 zipped right through with the 20" but stopped all rounds from the 16". This was at about 30 yards. 16" on all of them. lvl3 plates are NOT rated to stop m193. the velocity is simply to high for it. in many cases it "might" stop it, but it is not reliable and not expected to do so. that is why 193 is specifically listed on lvl4 specifications. we were shooting federal xm-193. i use the lvl3 targetman coated plates and carry them on duty. i am comfortable enough with them to know that they will stop 90% of the threats i face in a worst case scenario. if i encounter the guy in that 10% bracket, i figured i could just as likely get shot in the face. i am personally ok with that fact. YMMV. True AP ammo is not that common with avg street turd. my only point here is when it comes to armor, do your homework and KNOW what your getting. don't expect a lvl3 plate to protect beyond it's designed capabilities. in many cases they will, but never expect them to. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:39:05 PM EDT
[#11]
so the Guardians stop a few of the m193?
How durable are they for every day abuse? I don't plan on dropping them or at lest very hard  I do like how the AR500 steel is more durable though.
I'm really thinking of getting them and maybe some soft armor from AR500.com |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 1:01:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so the Guardians stop a few of the m193? How durable are they for every day abuse? I don't plan on dropping them or at lest very hard I do like how the AR500 steel is more durable though.
I'm really thinking of getting them and maybe some soft armor from AR500.com there is a thread on m4carbine that lists and reviews lots of different armors. The midwest was good at stopping rounds, but the major complaint was that even from general use cracking was occuring |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 1:47:21 PM EDT
[#13]
my comments were on the steel ar500 plates. no clue on those. ceramic is great but if your banging them around everyday you need to be careful with them.
NO lvl3 plate should be expected to to stop m193. if those are IV rated they should be fine. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:18:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Their products are top notch and I had a great experience dealing with them.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:21:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
there is a thread on m4carbine that lists and reviews lots of different armors. The midwest was good at stopping rounds, but the major complaint was that even from general use cracking was occuring Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
so the Guardians stop a few of the m193? How durable are they for every day abuse? I don't plan on dropping them or at lest very hard I do like how the AR500 steel is more durable though.
I'm really thinking of getting them and maybe some soft armor from AR500.com there is a thread on m4carbine that lists and reviews lots of different armors. The midwest was good at stopping rounds, but the major complaint was that even from general use cracking was occuring Link? Level IV ceramics are usually 0.4-0.5" thick. The above makes it sound like they were crumbling in someone's fingers. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:33:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Link? Level IV ceramics are usually 0.4-0.5" thick. The above makes it sound like they were crumbling in someone's fingers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so the Guardians stop a few of the m193? How durable are they for every day abuse? I don't plan on dropping them or at lest very hard I do like how the AR500 steel is more durable though.
I'm really thinking of getting them and maybe some soft armor from AR500.com there is a thread on m4carbine that lists and reviews lots of different armors. The midwest was good at stopping rounds, but the major complaint was that even from general use cracking was occuring Link? Level IV ceramics are usually 0.4-0.5" thick. The above makes it sound like they were crumbling in someone's fingers. Google it |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:00:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
my comments were on the steel ar500 plates. no clue on those. ceramic is great but if your banging them around everyday you need to be careful with them. NO lvl3 plate should be expected to to stop m193. if those are IV rated they should be fine. I thought the m193 was lower on the scale then the m855 green tip, Sorry if I'm wrong its late here and about to hit the sack. There is a lot of people I know that has 5.56 I don't know if there carrying and since the Mindwest Guardian is a level four plate it should stop them to a limited number of hits. Thanks for the help so far guys. Also I searched m4carbine and didn't come up with the link. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:31:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the m193 was lower on the scale then the m855 green tip, Sorry if I'm wrong its late here and about to hit the sack. There is a lot of people I know that has 5.56 I don't know if there carrying and since the Mindwest Guardian is a level four plate it should stop them to a limited number of hits. Thanks for the help so far guys. Also I searched m4carbine and didn't come up with the link. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
my comments were on the steel ar500 plates. no clue on those. ceramic is great but if your banging them around everyday you need to be careful with them. NO lvl3 plate should be expected to to stop m193. if those are IV rated they should be fine. I thought the m193 was lower on the scale then the m855 green tip, Sorry if I'm wrong its late here and about to hit the sack. There is a lot of people I know that has 5.56 I don't know if there carrying and since the Mindwest Guardian is a level four plate it should stop them to a limited number of hits. Thanks for the help so far guys. Also I searched m4carbine and didn't come up with the link. Neither did I. I suspect it does not exist. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:37:55 PM EDT
[#19]
I use the guardian lvl IV plates at work. They are made by highcomm and are NIJ tested/certified. That was a requirement for me. No steel plates are certified or tested to NIJ standards.
XM-193 is one if the most common rounds used. If your armor won't stop it then why deal with the extra weight at all? Just stick with III-A soft armor Ymmv, Rob |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:45:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither did I. I suspect it does not exist. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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my comments were on the steel ar500 plates. no clue on those. ceramic is great but if your banging them around everyday you need to be careful with them. NO lvl3 plate should be expected to to stop m193. if those are IV rated they should be fine. I thought the m193 was lower on the scale then the m855 green tip, Sorry if I'm wrong its late here and about to hit the sack. There is a lot of people I know that has 5.56 I don't know if there carrying and since the Mindwest Guardian is a level four plate it should stop them to a limited number of hits. Thanks for the help so far guys. Also I searched m4carbine and didn't come up with the link. Neither did I. I suspect it does not exist. I found the review, the same review, posted on several sites. It says the Guardian IV is a good plate. Here. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:02:01 PM EDT
[#21]
actually m193 isn't that common in the wild except for those with some education on ammo. i see MUCH more 55gr wolf and such than actual m193 spec ammunition.
855 has less penetration capability than 193. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:22:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the m193 was lower on the scale then the m855 green tip, Sorry if I'm wrong its late here and about to hit the sack. There is a lot of people I know that has 5.56 I don't know if there carrying and since the Mindwest Guardian is a level four plate it should stop them to a limited number of hits. Thanks for the help so far guys. Also I searched m4carbine and didn't come up with the link. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
my comments were on the steel ar500 plates. no clue on those. ceramic is great but if your banging them around everyday you need to be careful with them. NO lvl3 plate should be expected to to stop m193. if those are IV rated they should be fine. I thought the m193 was lower on the scale then the m855 green tip, Sorry if I'm wrong its late here and about to hit the sack. There is a lot of people I know that has 5.56 I don't know if there carrying and since the Mindwest Guardian is a level four plate it should stop them to a limited number of hits. Thanks for the help so far guys. Also I searched m4carbine and didn't come up with the link. I went back and read the thread. My mistake it was about the TAP Gamma plates |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:24:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
actually m193 isn't that common in the wild except for those with some education on ammo. i see MUCH more 55gr wolf and such than actual m193 spec ammunition. 855 has less penetration capability than 193. Would you say that M855 is more common than M193? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:40:06 PM EDT
[#24]
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Would you say that M855 is more common than M193? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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actually m193 isn't that common in the wild except for those with some education on ammo. i see MUCH more 55gr wolf and such than actual m193 spec ammunition. 855 has less penetration capability than 193. Would you say that M855 is more common than M193? down here a good bit more common, but even still i have yet to see any real quality ammo in a rifle in the hands of a shit head i was concerned might use it. there isn't a lot of "surplus" or milspec ammo on the shelves around here and most thugs aren't buying ammo at AIM or copes. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 5:31:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Suspect ammo is usually wolf/Tula so far here too. But friendly fire and accidents happen and I know what we and other local agencies carry
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Posted: 4/15/2014 6:05:57 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Suspect ammo is usually wolf/Tula so far here too. But friendly fire and accidents happen and I know what we and other local agencies carry .around here it's most sp for le ammo. thats easier to stop than wolf
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Posted: 4/16/2014 12:23:50 PM EDT
[#27]
So were would be a good place to get the Midwest Guardian plates with Multi-curve feature, I noticed the ones I was looking at getting were only single curve. I don't have a CCL or any LE credentials.
All ells fails I'll get the ones I was looking at. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 1:29:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Appalachian Training has the guardian iv in multicurve.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 3:40:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Except I'm not LE or Mil and have no CCW yet...so I cant get them there.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 3:46:00 PM EDT
[#30]
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Except I'm not LE or Mil and have no CCW yet...so I cant get them there. Not required for Midwest Armor Purchase |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 3:55:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Except I'm not LE or Mil and have no CCW yet...so I cant get them there. Not required for Midwest Armor Purchase I just read that. and planning on ordering a pair in a few weeks after my vacation 
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