- Joined 2003
- Posts 9978
- Location UZB
Posted: 10/7/2011 7:50:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/7/2011 12:08:33 PM EST by daemon734]
|Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By Blacktide:
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
I have the TT operator removeable pack and the kifaru E&E. The TT pack sits real low on your vest because the mounting attachments are at the top of the pack, as opposed to the sides like the E&E. I would say the ares pack is the easiest to attach/detach yourself, a teammate had one.
When you are wearing body armor with a decent weighted pack on you pretty much lose the use of your arms in about an hour.
All of these packs are pretty awesome at relieving cut off circulation at the shoulders while doing long movements with body armor on. SORD makes a decent one also.
Another benefit is the ability to clip these packs on to rucksacks and carry both. I used the clip on packs as demo bags carrying my explosives and clipped them to my armor, but needed to be able to clip them to my ruck comfortable to get where I was going first.
I was given the tactical tailor pack but bought the kifaru because it is much better IMO, it sits higher, the weight is distributed better, and it clips onto your pack a lot tighter.
Tactical tailor operator:
I don't understand why a pack with shoulder straps worn over armor carrier would cut off circulation ot one's arms vs. the same-weight pacl attached directly to the armor carrier.
As a matter of simple physics, the slender shoulder straps of a pack, riding on top of the armor carrier, should have their weight/pressure distributed by the shoulder portions of the armor carrier.
If the pack's shoulder straps should slide off the armor carrier, then I can see a problem developing. OTOH, sternum straps, adjusted properly should avoid such a problem.
Maybe I am missing something, and perhaps you can educate me.
When a ruck sack is properly tightened, the shoulder straps run under the arms, not just over the armor. I can't describe it if you haven't experienced it, but it sucks.
I'm not trying to dog you, but trying to understand. I've worn my 3-day pack, over Interceptor armor plarform, for a day's worth of hiking with minor discomfort. I think the use of the sternum strap essential in maintaining user comfort, and failure to use it is asking for big trouble.
For that matter, I've worn MOLLE GI and CFP-90 heavy packs over same platform, and have not encountered arm numbness. Again, use of a tight sternum strap seems to make a big difference. Your thoughts?
We aren't talking IBA's here. An IBA is good for a small pack because it has a lot of material going wide at the shoulders. smaller backback straps can ride on this. This also makes it hard to carry trucks with wide straps because you now have to carry all that weight over your armor. I wore plate carriers the whole time I used clip-on packs, which are very narrow at the chest and are only about as wide as the plate.
The physics is the same, of course the weight stays the exact same. This difference is in placement. Small packs often have no sternum strap, and they tend to slide off of the armor (or in the case of plate carriers, never be on your armor to begin with) and pin directly into your brachial artery where your chest and shoulder meet. Clipping it to the back of your carrier places the weight all on the carrier's top straps, which pushes down on on your collarbone and trapezius, which if you have a decently strong back, will cause you a lot less trouble. In Afghanistan you tend to be moving uphill quite a bit, which has you inadvertently moving your arms around quite a bit, making it almost impossible to keep those straps from digging in as deep as possible. Often your kit will not allow you to use a sternum strap if you have on as well.
A 3-day pack usually has larger straps, which makes it a little harder to slide off and dig into your arms, but at the same time if you dont have a 3-day bag's worth of stuff to carry out then it will all just collect in the bottom, which is equally bad. A 3-day pack will not ride on the armor at all with a plate carrier because of the difference in width. At best it will be half-on half-off, and will still cut off your circulation.
I also need a full range of motion of my arms for my job, for rope pulls, probing, etc, and its hard to get that with tightened straps from a bag catching your arms.
My drill sergeant had done three tours as combat arms, had a scar down the length of his face, and was no-shit bi-polar. That's how they are supposed to be.