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Posted: 8/20/2011 8:48:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2011 8:49:36 AM EST by CSAKing]
whats up guys, ive kind of gotten the shotgun bug latley and have built 2 870's. Now I want to make a first line/war belt to go where if my shotgun was my primary. I know Im going to have your run of the mill 1st line things (I.E. med pouch, pistol mag pouches, safariland 6004, ect ect) but what I need some help deciding is what should I do for shotgun ammo on the belt? im thinking 1 or 2 california competition works holders probably at 11 or 10 oclock and mabey something that would hold shells vertical at 1 or 2 oclock and mabey a dumpouch with shells in it. Just wondering what yalls thoughts were for this. Gimmie some ideas and im going to try and order some stuff this week and post up some pics

EDIT: o yea and all this will be going on a hsgi sure grip padded belt
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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 10:31:07 AM EST
I have two Eagle Industries shotgun pouches....one 12 round and one 24 round....they have molle attachments for a belt or pack...made in the US...etc.
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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 11:51:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2011 11:53:01 AM EST by blt-2-drg]
Stick some industrial strength velcro on the side of your receiver and pick up a bunch of these Esstac shotgun cards. They fit in AR-15 mag pouches so the sky is the limit as far as how and where you want to carry them. If you dont want to put them in pouches you can also pick up a Maxpedition Fugly which attaches to any PALS webbing on a belt or chest rig and has velcro on the opposite side to stick the shotgun cards to. It will hold 3 of them.

I've been using them for about a year on 3 shotguns and still going strong.
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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 11:58:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By blt-2-drg:
Stick some industrial strength velcro on the side of your receiver and pick up a bunch of these Esstac shotgun cards. They fit in AR-15 mag pouches so the sky is the limit as far as how and where you want to carry them. If you dont want to put them in pouches you can also pick up a Maxpedition Fugly which attaches to any PALS webbing on a belt or chest rig and has velcro on the opposite side to stick the shotgun cards to. It will hold 3 of them.

I've been using them for about a year on 3 shotguns and still going strong.


how much remove and replace is the receiver velcro side seeing? I'd be interested to see/hear how the soft side of the velcro holds up after use
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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 2:59:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2011 3:20:57 PM EST by CSAKing]
im intersted in the esstac shotgun cards does anyone have any pictures of their setup for these

I also like these tactical tailor 6rnd shotgun panel

and also i was thinking of mabey a hsgi dump pouch full of shells at mabey 9oclock
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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 3:23:49 PM EST
Esstac shotgun cards in HSGI TACOs on an Eagle/SKD MOLLE chest rig:

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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 3:28:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By TR0N_0010:
Esstac shotgun cards in HSGI TACOs on an Eagle/SKD MOLLE chest rig:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6187/6063274425_eed8c56456_b.jpg


Sexy.
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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 5:36:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2011 5:38:55 PM EST by blt-2-drg]
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
Originally Posted By blt-2-drg:
Stick some industrial strength velcro on the side of your receiver and pick up a bunch of these Esstac shotgun cards. They fit in AR-15 mag pouches so the sky is the limit as far as how and where you want to carry them. If you dont want to put them in pouches you can also pick up a Maxpedition Fugly which attaches to any PALS webbing on a belt or chest rig and has velcro on the opposite side to stick the shotgun cards to. It will hold 3 of them.

I've been using them for about a year on 3 shotguns and still going strong.


how much remove and replace is the receiver velcro side seeing? I'd be interested to see/hear how the soft side of the velcro holds up after use


I honestly couldnt tell you how many times its been on and off.

I use to race r/c cars years ago and used this same velcro to hold battery packs and receivers down in the car for quick changes. I used the soft velcro in the chassis and would replace battery packs in and out atleast 12 times per week. The velcro was in there for as much as 1 year and this was a 6 C cell battery pack in a car traveling speeds up to about 40-45mph on an oval track.

One of mine.




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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 5:36:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By TR0N_0010:
Esstac shotgun cards in HSGI TACOs on an Eagle/SKD MOLLE chest rig:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6187/6063274425_eed8c56456_b.jpg


will they not fit all the way in a taco or do you just have them pulled out some for the picture
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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 6:33:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By TR0N_0010:
Esstac shotgun cards in HSGI TACOs on an Eagle/SKD MOLLE chest rig:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6187/6063274425_eed8c56456_b.jpg


How timely. I just ordered a shitload of shotgun belts to cut up into shotshell cards that will be going into HSGI tacos. Glad to see that'll work with no issues.
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Link Posted: 8/20/2011 8:34:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By CSAKing:
Originally Posted By TR0N_0010:
Esstac shotgun cards in HSGI TACOs on an Eagle/SKD MOLLE chest rig:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6187/6063274425_eed8c56456_b.jpg


will they not fit all the way in a taco or do you just have them pulled out some for the picture



The cards are roughly the same length as an AR mag, so they stick out of the TACO even when they are fully inserted (that's what she said).
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Link Posted: 8/21/2011 4:18:47 AM EST
Ireally like the cards so I will deffinetly be doing some of thoes. Anyone have any pics of some of their gear with some cali. competition works shell caddys on them?
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Link Posted: 8/21/2011 4:25:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2011 5:24:03 AM EST by mixcj]
Not nearly as high speed, or bad ass as tron's get up but then again I have come to expect nothing less..Anyway not really what you're asking for but maybe worth a peek. This is a second line set up with the shot gun as primary.

Edited for spelling and made the link hot.
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Link Posted: 8/21/2011 7:46:02 AM EST
I agree that there is a place for the shotgun, for me at least, in the mix. 3-gun, HD, or SHTF, I like the ability of the shotgun to deliver different loads with minimal transition time. A little while ago, I started looking for a way to work a shotgun loadout in with my existing AR-15 and pistol magazine carrier rig. After trying a few different set-ups, I found that the shotgun cards were the way to go, for me at least. There are two companies, IMHO, making good cards out there.

The first is ESSTAC,

ESSTAC

the second is JONES TACTICAL.

Jones Tactical


There are some differences between the two, but I have found both to be high quality, although not very cheap. I ended up going with the ESSTAC because it carried 7 instead of 6 per card.

The ESSTAC cards:



My normal AR-15/pistol rig:




I use the ESSTAC triple shingle pouch w/kiwis on the back, and Maxpedition double rifle pouch on the front. I really like using the cards with the Kiwi inserts because they fit into the "notch" at the bottom of the Kiwis. This provides a very secure hold, yet a good pull on the cord at the top of the card will bring them right up.

Rig with ESSTAC cards:





On the front of the Maxpedition double pouch, I cut down a velcro Blackhawk patch panel and used the small Maxpedition ties to secure it:



When I am ready to reload, the cards stick right to the front of the mag pouch with a good hold.:



We all have to find what works for us. Hope this might have brought up some options for you.

CT
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Link Posted: 8/21/2011 2:13:16 PM EST
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Link Posted: 8/21/2011 2:37:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2011 2:38:32 PM EST by TR0N_0010]
[... The Esstac cards are seven shells, so even if I run dry (generally not a good idea, I admit, but it happens) I will be stuck with cards with one shell still in them. You see the problem. Now one has to rip off the card with one shell still in it, and stash somewhere. Sure, one could feed shell as they go, but that introduces problems also...


For the card I keep on the gun that sits next to my bed, I have five 00 in the gun, five 00 and 2 slugs on the side. Each of the cards in the pouches have six 00 shells and 1 slug which equates to 6 + 1 reload with a slug change out option.

As for stashing the unused slug/card, if you use a dump pouch or a cargo pocket for rifle/pistol mags, this shouldn't be much different.

I'll admit that I have little trigger time with my shotgun, and only recently built the set up I have in order to remedy my lack of proficiency with my primary HD weapon. So I'm sure that once I start getting some more rounds down range with this set up, things will change.

I recently bought a box of 25 Dummy Shells from Brownell's and have been doing some extensive dry fire practice with this set up, and I recommend that anyone looking into a similar rig do the same thing. Dry fire practice builds incredible muscle memory and is a great/cheap way to work out some functional kinks in your gear before you get to the range/competition/HD scenario.
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Link Posted: 8/21/2011 3:25:20 PM EST
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Link Posted: 8/21/2011 4:39:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By raf:
I like the concept, and the personal innovation some have shown here.

That said, I have some issues with the cards.

First off, I use a Remmy 870 with a 20" barrel that has rifle sights and replaceable chokes. That barrel constrains me to a +3 choate ammo extender, thus giving a max SG capacity of six shells, assuming it is run dry.

The Esstac cards are seven shells, so even if I run dry (generally not a good idea, I admit, but it happens) I will be stuck with cards with one shell still in them. You see the problem. Now one has to rip off the card with one shell still in it, and stash somewhere. Sure, one could feed shell as they go, but that introduces problems also.

Note that most SG panels and pouches are set up for 12-shell capicity, generally 6+6 in the pouch/panel. There is a reason for that, I think; the reason being that a lot of SG users, under extreme stress, run the gun dry. Again, not good at all, but these things happen. I'm talking real world, not the range/competition event where the course-of-fire is much more defined, and stress is less than life-or-death.

My other issue with the cards in open-topped pouches is that the SG shells are not at all shielded from the elements, be they Ice, rain, mud, or whatever. Recall that, unlike Milspec rifle ammo, SG shells seldom have primers that are waterproofed, let alone the throat of the ctg. Perhaps this is not a big deal on the range, but in a life-or-death situation, having one's SG ammo exposed to freezing rain/mud/dust might not be altogether a good idea. YMMV.

I'm certainly no expert shotgunner, and I do not begin to claim to have found the Holy Grail of ammo pouches for shotguns. OTOH, even given my relative inexperience, I can foresee some problems beore they happen.


I run a 870 with a 21" barrel and extension. I also have Mesa side saddles which work in conjunction with the cards. Sometimes, they can be a good place to put a loose shell or two.

Other than the first round on the top, I don't think the SG shells have that much more exposure to the elements than a pouch with a flap, and I have certainly found shells on cards less complicated to access, but then again I believe in the KISS principle.

BTW, The cards can also have "issues" with fouled loop velcro, and time related elasticity issues, if not properly maintianed.....

A wise instructor always keeps reminding me that "All dogs have fleas", the key is to avoid the ticks.....

I am no expert shotgunner, but am always looking for the next best mousetrap......then take it out and try to break it...

CT
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Link Posted: 8/21/2011 6:06:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Clastac:
I agree that there is a place for the shotgun, for me at least, in the mix. 3-gun, HD, or SHTF, I like the ability of the shotgun to deliver different loads with minimal transition time. A little while ago, I started looking for a way to work a shotgun loadout in with my existing AR-15 and pistol magazine carrier rig. ......
There are some differences between the two, but I have found both to be high quality, although not very cheap.
CT


Bravo sir.
That's the only hurdle I'm running into; how to attach loop velcro to the outside of my AR mag pouches to double-up on shotgun cards. There's always sticky-backed velcro, but I'm wondering how well it will hold up over the long run. Great idea re-purposing the patch panel. wish i had something like that lying around. Any ideas for a cost-effective substitute?

My plan is to make my own cards on the cheap. $15 a pop for the esstac cards is just a bit too much for me to stomach, since i know i'd have to put at least $150 into just cards alone to get a worthwhile setup running. I have some ideas bouncing around in my head, and I plan on posting them after i've got the ball rolling to add to the brainstorm we've got going here.

Raf, the appeal of these shotgun cards is, like you say, it's integration into an existing AR-based rig. I couldn't stomach the various "rows of elastic loops" that were already out there. Just didn't seem smart.
The shotgun does provide a unique challenge of how to keep it constantly stoked, and that's very wise noting that the popular esstac cards have 7 shells, when most shotguns on average seem to hold 5+1. Maybe a solution is to run the shotgun cards in conjunction with a dump pouch filled with loose shells? when you rip off the old card you can grab a few "loosies" to top off the mag tube without going into a new card? I've never taken a shotgun class, but I know that the trick to using a shotgun is in the reloading, not the shooting. The dreaded crossroads of a hardware problem ( limited mag capacity, single loading shells) and a software problem (keeping track of and organizing your ammo)
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Link Posted: 8/23/2011 6:53:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2011 6:56:53 AM EST by TrackSol]
Originally Posted By raf:
I like the concept, and the personal innovation some have shown here.

That said, I have some issues with the cards.

First off, I use a Remmy 870 with a 20" barrel that has rifle sights and replaceable chokes. That barrel constrains me to a +3 choate ammo extender, thus giving a max SG capacity of six shells, assuming it is run dry.

The Esstac cards are seven shells, so even if I run dry (generally not a good idea, I admit, but it happens) I will be stuck with cards with one shell still in them. You see the problem. Now one has to rip off the card with one shell still in it, and stash somewhere. Sure, one could feed shell as they go, but that introduces problems also.


Raf,

The ESSTAC card hold 7 and the Jones Tactical card holds 6.

I don't know much about SG's but are you limited to 6 total or 6+1? If it's 6+1 you could still use the ESSTAC cards and always load one in the chamber and then top up the magazine. If it's 6 total (5+1) then you could use the Jones Tactical cards which hold 6 shells.

Originally Posted By Clastac:
After trying a few different set-ups, I found that the shotgun cards were the way to go, for me at least. There are two companies, IMHO, making good cards out there.

The first is ESSTAC,

ESSTAC,

the second is JONES TACTICAL.

Jones Tactical

There are some differences between the two, but I have found both to be high quality, although not very cheap. I ended up going with the ESSTAC because it carried 7 instead of 6 per card.


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Link Posted: 8/23/2011 11:07:43 AM EST
I have two of these on my first line belt. Granted its normally used for 3 gun matches, but the ease of reloading the carrier and the speed with which you can reload your gun is greatly increased with these. Not really tactical, but highly functional.
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Link Posted: 8/23/2011 12:51:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2011 1:03:41 PM EST by raf]
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Link Posted: 8/24/2011 8:24:14 AM EST
I've got a 870 that I use for 3-gun matches and keep in the closet for HD. I've got a Choate, I think, side saddle on it that holds six rounds, and a gun show buttstock cuff that holds five rounds. And the buttstock is a speed feed stock, so with everything I've got 7+1, +6, +5, and +4 all on the gun :) It gets a little heavy. http://gallery.gandalf23.com/v/gunz/gunpics/remington870.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=2 It's got an 18.5 inch barrel, so the magazine extension sticks out a little :)

No pics, sorry, but at previous matches I've used a Blackhawk STRIKE SAW pouch which has a snap in thing with a slit in it that lets you reach into the pouch and get shells out, but keeps them inside and not flying around as you run. there do not seem to be pictures of it on Blackhawk's site, but I found this via google: http://www.polimil.co.uk/acatalog/37CL28MC.png. I added a shoulder strap to it and it works. But not great.

Recently I, too, wanted to add something that would hold shotgun shells to my existing AR15 rig, so I looked around and got some of the Esstac cards. I have not yet removed the side saddle from my 870, so I haven't really tried them out yet, but they seem a good idea. I use surplus USGI two mag woodland camo AR15 pouches on my 3 gun rig, so the cards will be protected from the mud and whatnot at the matches. I'm not sure how well the velcro will hold out, especially the piece on the shotgun. I imagine it'll get full of dirt and debris rather quickly, but I am not sure.

I also ordered a few of the Original SOE 12 gauge pull out trays. http://originalsoegear.com/12tray.html I figured I could use them with the existing setup, and there is no velcro to worry about. The trays hold 16 rounds of 12 gauge each and fit into the USGI woodland camo two mag pouches. The idea is that you tie it with 550 cord to the drain hole then pull the tray out of the pouch, reload from one side, then filp it over to reload from the other when you need that. The 550 cord keeps it from getting lost and keeps it in position, sorta. This seems to work out great, which is why I have not tried out the cards. I gave them to my brother in law to use on my 1100 which he has borrowed.

The trays are kinda expensive at $25 a pop, but could be easily made. I ordered about $30 worth of stuff from ParaGear to make a bunch. IIRC I bought some three inch wide webbing, and some 1.5 inch wide elastic, and some thread. It's still sitting around in the box, as my wife got rid of her sewing machine when we got married since she never used it, so they've not yet been assembled into trays, but one of these days I'll get motivated and take the stuff to my aunts and use her sewing machine. Although I just traded for a Saiga 12 gauge, so I may need to change to something entirely different. :)

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Link Posted: 8/24/2011 9:36:41 AM EST
I just got an idea. How about taking one of those shell caddys that the 3gunners use and afixing it into a pouch that has a cover. That way the shells can be protected from the elements when stowed but when you need them you open the pouch and grab your 4 or 6 shells out of the caddy.

Off to patent office.....
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Link Posted: 8/24/2011 2:03:43 PM EST
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