Comfort and quality. That's it. No big secret.

A condor will probably hold your plates. But if it's miserable to wear are you going to wear it?

A good design which is comfortable and secure costs more than "this will work". It also will last longer and stand up better to wear and abuse.

Don’t let your dreams be dreams

I appreciate the feedback. Seriously. Just hard to pay that much for something I may never use unless some sort of civil war breaks out.

If you're not going to train with it, this stuff isn't going to help you a lot. Those steel plates are going to be 19 pounds of suck, before you add anything to the carrier. Do you think your family members are going to move very fast with an additional 20 pounds strapped to their torso?

My advice would be to get level II vests for anyone who doesn't have the inclination to train and practice with the gear. It's about as unencumbering as affordable body armor gets and it'll actually be used if things get weird. No, it won't help against rifles but neither will 20 pounds of scrap steel in the closet.

That's the thing. My family doesn't shoot or train and neither do I, to be honest. I know steel weighs a lot but if Civil war breaks out, a heavy carrier would seem to be the least of their worries. I'd think we'd hunkering down anyway. Guess i just thought something to protect them just in case would be good. Maybe not. Not arguing, just struggling. Thanks for the advice! Appreciate it!

Why buy a $2000 70" TV when a $200 50" TV would do just fine?

I'd go soft armor. You might actually wear it and civil war is improbable.

Heavy shit sucks, you never wear it, you never train in it. Ask me how I know

Solid advice. Thank you, sir!

Typically I buy middle.

@Caniac_Nation

Then perhaps you should consider a LBX plate carrier. LBT owns LBX. LBX is their value brand. I own a couple LBTs and have handled a LBX and can say the quality appears to be there.

London Bridge Trading:

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London Bridge X:

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Yeah I chose my gear for the same reasons.

I'm a small guy so ever Oz counts. Try finding small plates and a carrier. Not a lot of available choices out there.

The 3810's and the Javlin Concepts carrier is about as light as it gets without need to break two piggy banks to do it.

Thanks. That X would be in my price range. Based on the advice above, I've been sold on getting soft armor for the fam. Haven't decided on me yet. I'd probably get much more use out of concealable soft armor. Unless a war breaks out, I'd never wear a plate carrier.

Triple tall, single midlength, and a double gap 1911 inbound. Need to know what all this Esstac love is about. Replacing a Ten Speed shingle and some belt Tacos.

@Caniac_Nation

Find some pics of soft armor on this site. I'll wait...

Carriers don't just hold plates, they hold tools, comms, resupply, sustenance, etc.

As for the "I'd never wear a PC, unless Civil War" argument... Take Katrina for example. That wasn't a Civil War. If Feds/Mil were unavailable and you were tasked with patrolling your neighborhood against looters in a crisis/emergency would you have taken your PC or left it in the closet since we weren't in a "Civil War". Soft armour is SHTF to most normal people. If you're going to do SHTF, do it right. Get a plate carrier. If 2020 has showed us anything, it is that anything can happen.

QFT

If he's not going to spend enough to do it right and get a set of plates light enough to actually use on a regular basis, he's better off with the soft vest.

It's true that most people these days buy plate carriers with a bunch of MOLLE on them. Most people also don't train or practice with what they have and buy stuff because it's cool. Not knocking that, free country and all and cool stuff is cool. Having the ability to protect against the handgun and shotgun threats which are statistically a lot more common to encounter in a lower profile way is useful, though. This guy recently did a good overview of a very affordable NIJ listed concealment carrier that he can wear without screwing himself over too much or being extremely obvious. I'm going to go out on a limb and argue that it's much more likely you might have to patronize a Walmart in a bad part of town under duress than you would have to patrol your neighborhood. I tried to find a happy medium between the two and ended up with a slick low profile soft armor carrier that fits full sized torso plates if desired. It's not nearly as concealable as an undershirt carrier, I need a shell jacket over it to avoid printing very obviously. But it's scalable and does both jobs acceptably. It's likely out of Caniac's budget, though.

There are many quality options between 100 to 200, I can understand a +200 setup before the 40-80 bucks In pouches and placards can feel unreasonable for sitting in the closet or the occasional larp.

Off the top of my head the ferro concepts slickster is very popular for around 155 if you can find one. Various velocity systems light weight options are around the 140-180 range depending on deals. Grey ghost gear just had a 45 percent sale bringing their minimalist down to 70 bucks or so and that is regularly available for 120 bucks

Lbx 300 for under 100

If you don't mind the color

Good points as well there is some cheap 3a stuff out there from botach that maybe be an option depending on how you feel about it.

The Midwest offering is already so affordable that it doesn't seem worth it to roll the dice on chinese manufacturing reliability.

I recently built a concealable plate carrier that is about 10 pounds without mags.  BFG Plateminus v3, Hesco L210 plates.  I added a triple mag slab, an admin pouch and a tq holder.  Easily concealable under a sweatshirt, jacket or even a loose short sleeve button up. Not sure what else I’d want as a civvie, especially with a battle belt as well.

https://i.imgur.com/TqOnPTt.jpg

Can someone push me in the right direction?

Should I keep waiting for a JPC 2.0 to come in stock somewhere? Or just go ahead and order the ESSTAC Daeodon ASS?  

Looking for ranger green

Get that ass

On one hand, if the day ever comes that you seriously want to be wearing a PC, you'll obviously be glad to have a better PC.

On the other hand, the cheap plate carrier that you actually have is better than the expensive plate carrier that you didn't buy at all because you couldn't justify the expense.

Also take a peek at LBX. Sister company to LBT. You can get a pretty close copy of the LBT 6094 (LBX 0300. No kangaroo pocket on the front flap and no pockets in the cummerbund) for under $200. US made materials assembled overseas (not chyna).

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The exposed velcro is a turn off for me.

I outfitted my family with the LBX 0300’s from eBay (link above) and the LAPG level 4 plates.  Three sets cost me just over $700.  They are sitting in a storage box that I hope I never have to pull out and use for them.  But if need be, they are comfortable and relatively light weight as far as plates are concerned.

Another vote for ASS

Same

@cap6888

That’s a good price on eBay! I’m not too fond of the color, but hell, if I’m wearing one, I’m not going to give a shit about fashion. Lol. Odd on the sizing though. M/L? The LBX website has M or L..hope its not a knockoff.

I’m looking to spend $1k or under for a family of 4. You get the front/back/side plates for 3 sets at $700? And the weight was not bad? I have a 11 and 16 year old.

Just got my Multicam Velocity LEPC in from Double tap surplus, Ordered on Tuesday, so very fast shipping +1 to them. Fitted at the moment with Botach 10x12 level 4s, over all the plate bags are well sized and would probably fit everything is this size range and of course Medium Sapis. If anything I would add some foam to the bottom of my plates so they are a bit more secure. Unfortunately the cummerbund is the non divided versions so if I keep this over my ordered Esstac ASS then I might look to upgrade to a tube equipped cummerbund with some kind of elastic pockets (maybe Beez systems) although being a basement larper its not a high priority for me, but besides that the elastic cummerbund is nice and I do like it more than some other carriers I have borrowed without elastic.

I'll post a bunch of photos here since there isn't much out there on the web detailing that whole carrier but first impressions are positive and I feel its very solid option for a modular modern carrier from a very reputable manufacturer especially at the 20 percent discount



Good
-Overall very good construction
-3D mesh
-Quite low profile overall
-Alot of built in features for the size and price point such as the admin and kangaroo pouch.
-Pretty comfortable built in shoulder padding(the slip on elastic covers have some foam on the underside.
-Quite comfortable for a minimalist rig, I guess its base of the APC shows.

Meh
-Semi small width between the shoulder straps for your head, I had heard this being a compliant for some on velocity systems/mayflower gear compared to Crye and other rigs. I did not have any real problem getting off and on but I would have to take any external ear pro off before taking off the carrier.
-Perhaps slightly large plate bag with extra room side to side and top to bottom for a 10x12 plate, I wonder how a taller but narrower SAPI would fit.

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I am totally new to armor. I'd never touched plates until I caught Hesco 4401s in stock and ordered them. Carrier is a $50 Blackhawk and I already had the crappy mag pouches. I like the setup I think and will upgrade as I can. I ordered a Crye JPC, not sure I'll get it. I have a G19 and mag on my belt.

If you’re buying quality plates, you should expect to spend at minimum about $600/set, plus about $250 for a carrier.

The weight of what you’d be able to afford would probably get your family members killed because they will not be able to move quickly. If you are not going to train with the armor, which you have noted previously in the thread, it is dead weight that will more likely get you killed than save your life. If you can’t afford ~$850 per set of armor and carrier, then don’t bother.

Got it. So no armor is better than soft armor / hard armor at less than $250/set. Lol. Ok.

Yes, yes it is. Get properly good at shooting, moving, and communicating before you worry about armor.

Look... I'm basically in your same spot. Wife and two kids ages 8 and 10.

I would take the $1K and build out a good PC with decent plates. In most situations, my family can take cover while I try my best with equipment actually designed for real fighting while being mobile. Throwing PCs on my wife and kids won't magically turn them into wound proof, alert and competent actors. In a firefight, they most likely would be scared shitless, looking for cover and staying there for better or worse. It is my job to do what little I can to ensure their safety and given the $1000 budget, I think one PC set up correctly vs. four anchor weights is the most sound option.

I'm not a door-kicker so I am open to any logical counterpoints.

Edit:

After getting the PC set up, I would work on getting those back back plates for the wife and kids. Maybe each one of them gets a SHTF backpack with some essentials and an armor plate inside. After that, work toward getting the 16 year old into a solid PC.

Lots of wisdom here. Closely mirrors some experiences I've had.

I tried doing this with some weaker family members. In drills, people are incredibly slow to get carriers on. After that, even the 2.1 pound polyethylene plates were a bit much for people not used to wearing a pair of mostly flat things on their torsos. It didn't slow them down very much, but it didn't work very well. Meanwhile, because I gave up my nice plates I was using 8.6 pound Highcom 4S17ms. My carrier ended up being about 28 pounds, and was miserable even though I'd done training with it. Suffice it to say we were a soup sandwich and it was completely untenable for anything resembling an emergency situation. No realistic contingency plan would involve that ridiculous scramble. If it's not an exigent circumstance, there's time for people who shouldn't be fighting to be taking cover and concealing themselves. Torso plates make everything worse without practice. I've significantly modified my armor setup since this, and practiced with it much more regularly.

Soft armor was considerably better for untrained people, only marginally impeded mobility but is a heat cas risk in Summer or more extreme climates. They also seemed to figure out putting them on quicker, probably because you can't whack yourself in the head with the hard plate. You can just throw on a vest and even forget to attach the bund straps. Doesn't impede sitting in vehicles either, and is a lot lower profile.

I think most of us here aren't assaulters and aren't doing DA. Realistic home defense isn't it. If you're planning on clearing your house when the alarm goes off because you have body armor, that's a really stupid idea. Even the fantasy "patrolling your neighborhood" scenario isn't that either, it's more like pulling security. SHTF/WROL is an entirely reasonable thing to be worried about now more than ever and I think all responsible men should be getting serious about being trained, mentally fit, and prepared to protect their families and if necessary/possible defend their communities. I feel like it would save people a lot of time, effort, and wasted money on gear that'll end up sitting in a closet unused if we could deep dive a bit more on the reasons why you want certain things and want to avoid others. I'm lucky that I didn't have to start buying this stuff in the middle of all this mess, and I imagine it's pretty shitty trying to do it right now.

I agree with your logic.

I got PC's w L4 plates for my sons. My DILs and grandkids aren't going to be in a firefight directly but my sons will stand between them and the bad guys.

I have considered this. Thanks.

All this stuff about “training.” I’ve previously trained Krav Maga but not tactical stuff. Not trying to hijack the thread, but out of curiosity, how are you doing training in a carrier? Are you traveling and taking classes from operators to learn how to clear rooms, quick mag change, and kick in doors?

If I showed up at the range at my shooting club in a carrier, I’d look and feel like a wannabe operator tool box.

Yes. Handful of various classes every year, supplemented by running similar drills and more with other people from those same classes on a more regular basis.

I guess I need to research and find something appropriate for a slightly overweight 47 year old father of two.

Yeah. Classes, 2-gun/USPSA, range trips. Not "operator" classes, but doing gun and fighting stuff with the gear. It makes most things harder and changes how you do other things. You won't know what changes unless you try it. The thing is, don't take a basic class the first time with the battle rattle. It'll waste your time and maybe the other students' time, and that won't make you popular. You need a baseline of fitness and marksmanship first. Dry practice and workouts in gear are useful.

If you care about how you look, you miss a lot in life. I certainly used to get a lot of shit from some of the guys... until this year. A lot of stuff is changing out here, and I think we're in a little bit of a different world. It was already pretty normal for a middle American man to own an AR-15, now it's not that uncommon to shoot regularly and maybe own a good belt or a PC. Also, you would be surprised how little people notice their surroundings. I've accidentally gone into grocery stores in mud-caked Cryes and I might as well have been invisible. Nobody cared, nobody seemed to notice that much. Either my county's weirder than I think or Multicam was also designed for use inside Walmarts

If you get weird looks in a plate carrier at the range, its probably not a cool enough range to allow you to do worthwhile training anyway.

Adding armor adds complexity to gun fighting.  It adds weight, which means you need to be stronger and more physically fit in a cardiovascular sense to be able to move in it.  It traps heat, which will make you uncomfortable.  It adds bulk which changes how you mount and shoot a rifle, which means you need to practice shooting in it.  Doing all of this together is even better.

The vast majority of shooters never leave a bench.  They sit down, put their rifle in a front rest and maybe use a rear bag, shoot a 3-5 round group at 50 yards, and go home smiling thinking they're the modern Alvin York.  The reality is you need to be able to shoot off-hand, kneeling, and prone, as well as from a variety of supported positions between standing and prone.  You need to be able to sprint from cover to cover, get into a steady position quickly, and then apply the fundamentals of the shot process quickly and effectively to hit your target.  You also need to be able to manipulate your weapon for mag changes and malfunction drills from all these positions and in this gear.

If you can't do this at your range there are other ways around it.  Go out for a run in your gear.  This will shake out getting it adjusted so you can breathe but it isn't floppy.  It'll let you know really quick if its too heavy or if your stuff isn't attached well.  I'd mix it up between sprints and distance runs; start short and slow if you aren't already a runner.  Practice dry fire at home in your gear.  Dry fire from every position you can think of: standing, kneeling, prone, use your coffee table/couch/counter top/vehicle as a form of simulated cover/support to shoot off of.  Practice your reloads and weapons manipulation while you're at it.

Going out innawoods to shoot is the best because there aren't nosy ROs or fudds to gawk or complain about you.  At the range do drills that involve sprints and shooting.  Start at the target, run 50 m, turn and drop to kneeling, shoot the target.  Change mag and do it again to shoot from the 100 m line.  Then run back and do it again from the 50 m line again.  If you want any kind of crazy work-out/shooting combos, Pat McNamara is your guy.

Also seek out 2 gun and 3 gun matches in your area and wear the armor to those.  They probably won't be quite as physical as you can make your own training, but will put you on the clock for shooting, moving, and manipulating your weapon in armor.

And at the very least working out and shooting in one

If you plan on holding out in your house with family during a civil war, save body armor for last. What you need to do is invest in your fort to make it as siege proof as possible. Heavy doors and locks, heavy window panels, exterior and interior fire systems, a fireproof safe room with breathing apparatus (or a bunker), and enough food and water for several days.

Thank you! I am in a hunt club with a shooting range in the woods where I can practice drills.

All that won't do you much good if you don't train in tactics, communication, and logistics with at least a core fire team size group. I think a 3 fire team squad would be ideal.

I hate spell check.

I live on Skid Row with felons and vagabonds, not likely to form a fire team. Drinking team, hell yes, but fire team? They wouldn't understand the question. I am most likely to be on my own until we can bug our, IF we can.