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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2012 10:43:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Hawk...excellent thread. Really have learned a lot here.
Two questions for you:
Thanks for your time on this... |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2012 7:35:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
You have trees, bushes, and other plant life. It will work fine.  I'd like to see how it works all year round, through the changes in color with the plant life. how about some pics with say a multicam pack or chest rig, ect, to see how/if they can work together. I'm sure not everyone wants to reinvest all sorts of money into yet another camo collection 
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Posted: 4/2/2012 8:30:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By ivox:
Hawk...excellent thread. Really have learned a lot here. Two questions for you:
Thanks for your time on this... 1. Friend of mine and also Predator BDU 2. Yes, these are Proppers Battle Rip material and it is a 65/35 Poly Cotton material. |
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Posted: 4/2/2012 8:31:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By BB868:
Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
You have trees, bushes, and other plant life. It will work fine. I'd like to see how it works all year round, through the changes in color with the plant life. how about some pics with say a multicam pack or chest rig, ect, to see how/if they can work together. I'm sure not everyone wants to reinvest all sorts of money into yet another camo collection Cleared out all my Multicam gear and such a couple of years ago. I have one full set of BDU's left and I think I have one chest rig left. Let me see what I can do with it. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2012 10:20:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Haven't been in this thread in years; Hawkeye, hope you're well man. We haven't kept up.
Question for you though, any idea where to find the SKD stuff other than SKD? I have a set of their BDU's and they fit me better than any other. I wanted to get a couple more pair in some solid colors for 3 Gun and they're currently sold out at SKD. |
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Posted: 4/3/2012 9:06:00 AM EDT
[#6]
As far as I know, SKD is the only place to get their BDU's.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2012 11:43:06 PM EDT
[#7]
The A-TACS FG looks great in hand. Being in the desert it is hard to not have a preference for the AU, especially since it will only get some use up north for a little hunting. I am sure those outside the South West will be loving it since most people have the Green around.
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Posted: 4/5/2012 5:38:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Some hide and seek....A-TACS FG.
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USA
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Posted: 4/5/2012 9:53:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dreiwhit]
[#9]
Originally Posted By ivox:
Hawk...excellent thread. Really have learned a lot here. +1 This thread had been very informative and enlightening. Information and pictures posted here has shown me that the camo I was leaning toward would not have been the best choice for my area. BTW, anyone have any pictures of OD & woodland gear being worn over MARPAT style camo? |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 4/6/2012 12:20:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: wsix]
[#10]
In that one pic, your morale patches expose you.
I'm loving some FG. That prone sunlight pic is only fucked by the brim of the hat. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2012 1:43:02 AM EDT
[#11]
have you ever tried out SURPAT?
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Posted: 4/11/2012 8:16:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Been wanting to try it out for some time now, just havent ever gotten around to ordering any. Only place I know of to get the real thing is from SRVV in Russia.
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Posted: 4/11/2012 1:02:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: RUSMILITARY sometimes have stock, but otherwise, they are ordering it from SRVV themselves, and you still have the extra wait.Been wanting to try it out for some time now, just havent ever gotten around to ordering any. Only place I know of to get the real thing is from SRVV in Russia. |
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:13:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Great thread!
I have been searching for some replacement BDU pants, and this thread has helped a lot. I have been wearing a pair of tiger stripe BDU pants for many years when I go hunting. They are now faded and have a hole in the crotch. Time to retire these pants and get something new. I have had several pairs of regular hunting pants in Real-tree and Mossy-Oak, but they wear out quickly. I am torn between the A-TACS FG, and German Flecktarn pants. Is there a good place to order Flecktarn pants OP? I can only find used pants online, so maybe they are mostly unavailable in the U.S.. Also, I know it's a free country to wear whatever you like, so long as you are not faking military service, but a buddy of mine loves wearing ACU color pants around for everyday comfort. He gets all kinds of civilians coming up to him wanting to thank him for his service. I am sure that would be very annoying/bothersome for a regular joe. Not to mention I am also a civilian, and sometimes I am out hunting on a military base, I would feel poserish wearing ACU or Multicam pants around soldiers on a base. One time, even just wearing my faded Tiger stripe pants tucked into my boots for ticks, a guy thought I was military from a distance. I like the way ATACS and Flecktarn blend in, as well as they are not ACUs, Multi-Cam, or MARPAT. |
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Posted: 4/17/2012 12:14:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Great thread! I have been searching for some replacement BDU pants, and this thread has helped a lot. I have been wearing a pair of tiger stripe BDU pants for many years when I go hunting. They are now faded and have a hole in the crotch. Time to retire these pants and get something new. I have had several pairs of regular hunting pants in Real-tree and Mossy-Oak, but they wear out quickly. I am torn between the A-TACS FG, and German Flecktarn pants. Is there a good place to order Flecktarn pants OP? I can only find used pants online, so maybe they are mostly unavailable in the U.S.. Also, I know it's a free country to wear whatever you like, so long as you are not faking military service, but a buddy of mine loves wearing ACU color pants around for everyday comfort. He gets all kinds of civilians coming up to him wanting to thank him for his service. I am sure that would be very annoying/bothersome for a regular joe. Not to mention I am also a civilian, and sometimes I am out hunting on a military base, I would feel poserish wearing ACU or Multicam pants around soldiers on a base. One time, even just wearing my faded Tiger stripe pants tucked into my boots for ticks, a guy thought I was military from a distance. I like the way ATACS and Flecktarn blend in, as well as they are not ACUs, Multi-Cam, or MARPAT. I havent found any place here in the US to get new Flec pants at. Only used. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2012 6:50:52 PM EDT
[#16]
I posted this in a new thread and then I remembered this one.
I need to clear up NV, NIR, IR issues with ACU patterns and materials. I understand that when buying Multicam the preferred version is the 50/50 NYCO with regards to NV, NIR and IR issues, wash with non brightening detergents, etc. I know that black under NV lights up pretty well. What are the preferred materials with other newer patterns such as desert digital (commercial, not MARPAT), or A-TACS, etc. or is it really not an issue? Is it more color based, material/dye based or both? In regards to these issues, is there much difference between Propper & Tru Spec? |
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Posted: 4/30/2012 8:52:47 PM EDT
[#17]
To my knowledge, polyester blends arent NIR compliant. Only NYCO blends are. I'm not an expert on those aspects though.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2012 1:42:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: Non-compliant NIR (Near InfraRed) Clothing and Gear : IsTo my knowledge, polyester blends arent NIR compliant. Only NYCO blends are. I'm not an expert on those aspects though. this a concern for anyone here when it comes to buying clothing, backpacks, tents, pouches etc? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2012 2:06:00 PM EDT
[#19]
I am torn between the A-TACS FG, and German Flecktarn pants. Is there a good place to order Flecktarn pants OP? I can only find used pants online, so maybe they are mostly unavailable in the U.S..
The only place i've found that has new Flecktarn clothing is a vendor on Amazon.com. His Fleck is new, and he has it in larger sizes. I suspect these are made for the paint ball guys, so I'm not sure of the quality or the durability. I like Fleck myself and have thought about ordering a set. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2012 6:39:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By OlKev: For those interested in such things, just received this note from the A-TACS folks:Originally Posted By Hawkeye: Non-compliant NIR (Near InfraRed) Clothing and Gear : Isthis a concern for anyone here when it comes to buying clothing, backpacks,tents, pouches etc?To my knowledge, polyester blends arent NIR compliant. Only NYCO blends are. I'm not an expert on those aspects though. A-TACS AU and A-TACS FG are NIR "compatible". A-TACS AU is NIR Compatible to Desert Marpat. You cannot claim (as some wrongfully do) "NIR compliancy" unless you have received an NIR compliancy form the US Military. The US Military will not issue compliancy if they are not purchasing your Pattern / fabric. Therefore there is nothing to comply to. A-TACS FG is NIR compatible to Multicam, because NIR specs have been issued to Multicam just as NIR specs have been issued to Desert Marpat. That make sense? The only thing to NIR, is that the ink used to print the pattern, has to fall within certain wavelengths on the spectrum. The inks used to print A-TACS AU and A-TACS FG do fall within that spectrum for Desert Marpat and Multicam but still cannot be called "NIR compliant", only compatible. |
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Posted: 5/1/2012 8:28:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Well, there you go. Good info.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2012 12:34:27 PM EDT
[#22]
NIR technology has more to do with whether the fabric is more effective at absorbing near-infrared wavelengths rather than reflecting them. NIR-compliance does consider the wavelength of the colors but also has to do with the process of applying those colors to the fabric. At Propper, we have NIR-compliant garments made of many different fabrics (50/50 NYCO twill and ripstop, fire-resistant Defender M, 100% cotton, Nomex, Gore-Tex laminates, etc.), all of which are NIR-compliant in certain patterns. They meet military specification because these fabrics are vat-dyed, instead of being pigment-printed.
Certain vat-dyed fabrics and processes are more effective than others at NIR-compliance. That is because the dye is being absorbed by the fabric at a cellular level, instead of having a pigment being bound to the fiber. Vat-dyeing is a more expensive and time-consuming process. Pigment-printed 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop is a lower-cost fabric which is not NIR-compliant. That's why our MultiCam VS products (for example) use 65/35 Poly/Cotton as they are not used by the military. They are optimized for the visual spectrum (hence the VS) as law enforcement agencies using them don't have a need for NIR-compliance and are often limited in budgets. The military uses milspec MultiCam in our 50/50 NYCO ACUs and headwear, Defender M FR ACUs and FR Combat Shirts and Trousers. Those are NIR-compliant since they are all vat-dyed according to NIR wavelength specifications. The reason why Propper has not manufactured a "NIR-compliant" version of products in A-TACS AU or A-TACS FG is because NIR compliance is (as stated previously) a military specification. Since the military does not use either version of A-TACS, they have not determined the color wavelengths standards for either A-TACS pattern. As a result, no product in either A-TACS pattern can be considered NIR-compliant. |
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Posted: 5/2/2012 4:30:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quick question,
this type of coat/jacket http://www.predatorbdu.com/products/A-TACS-Army-Combat-Uniform-Coat-65-35-Poly-Cotton-Ripstop-Mil-Spec-F5459.html , would this be comfortable to wear in weather up to 50-60 degrees? Or are these meant for colder weather? I was thinking 'light jacket'. |
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Posted: 5/2/2012 8:27:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Quick question, this type of coat/jacket http://www.predatorbdu.com/products/A-TACS-Army-Combat-Uniform-Coat-65-35-Poly-Cotton-Ripstop-Mil-Spec-F5459.html , would this be comfortable to wear in weather up to 50-60 degrees? Or are these meant for colder weather? I was thinking 'light jacket'. Think more along the lines of ACU uniform top and you are going to be spot on. At work, especially on days we are going to be out in the field or on the range, I won't wear my ABU's (not in an AD status and I hate the Airman Burned Up uniform with every fiber of my being) and since we are working on an Army Guard base, I won't wear ACUs either and I tend to try to avoid Multi-cams because some of the students that are deploying from the RTC sometimes wear them and as an instructor, I try to stand out from them so ATACS-AU and ATACS-FG are two of my favorites although I also wear older style BDUs to include woodland, 3 and 6 color desert cammies as well. ATACS though is probably the best pattern I have found out here to blend in with the local area. Now if you are looking for an excellent jacket in ATACS, look into the SORD smock. They are NOT cheap (mine was around $250) but the workmanship and attention to detail is OUTSTANDING!!! The day you run out of pockets with this jacket is the day you are carrying WAY too much crap with you! The other thing that is great about them is that they are cut large. Comes to colder months, I have no problem wearing a fleece or even a Level-7 jacket underneath for added warmth yet still keeping that excellent ATACS pattern in the dead Wyoming grasslands.
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Posted: 5/2/2012 9:27:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By uniformguy:
NIR technology has more to do with whether the fabric is more effective at absorbing near-infrared wavelengths rather than reflecting them. NIR-compliance does consider the wavelength of the colors but also has to do with the process of applying those colors to the fabric. At Propper, we have NIR-compliant garments made of many different fabrics (50/50 NYCO twill and ripstop, fire-resistant Defender M, 100% cotton, Nomex, Gore-Tex laminates, etc.), all of which are NIR-compliant in certain patterns. They meet military specification because these fabrics are vat-dyed, instead of being pigment-printed. Certain vat-dyed fabrics and processes are more effective than others at NIR-compliance. That is because the dye is being absorbed by the fabric at a cellular level, instead of having a pigment being bound to the fiber. Vat-dyeing is a more expensive and time-consuming process. Pigment-printed 65/35 poly/cotton ripstop is a lower-cost fabric which is not NIR-compliant. That's why our MultiCam VS products (for example) use 65/35 Poly/Cotton as they are not used by the military. They are optimized for the visual spectrum (hence the VS) as law enforcement agencies using them don't have a need for NIR-compliance and are often limited in budgets. The military uses milspec MultiCam in our 50/50 NYCO ACUs and headwear, Defender M FR ACUs and FR Combat Shirts and Trousers. Those are NIR-compliant since they are all vat-dyed according to NIR wavelength specifications. The reason why Propper has not manufactured a "NIR-compliant" version of products in A-TACS AU or A-TACS FG is because NIR compliance is (as stated previously) a military specification. Since the military does not use either version of A-TACS, they have not determined the color wavelengths standards for either A-TACS pattern. As a result, no product in either A-TACS pattern can be considered NIR-compliant. Thanks! I was hoping you'd chime in. |
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Posted: 5/2/2012 9:34:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By kingoftheroad:
Quick question, this type of coat/jacket http://www.predatorbdu.com/products/A-TACS-Army-Combat-Uniform-Coat-65-35-Poly-Cotton-Ripstop-Mil-Spec-F5459.html , would this be comfortable to wear in weather up to 50-60 degrees? Or are these meant for colder weather? I was thinking 'light jacket'. They are fine up to quite a bit higher than that. They are just a standard ACU style top. |
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Posted: 5/12/2012 3:25:44 PM EDT
[#27]
A-TACS AU.......
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2012 3:44:02 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm kinda surprised the AU works that well in that environment.
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Posted: 5/12/2012 4:37:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Doesnt surprise me at all. There is this significantly mistaken notion, that tans, browns, etc... are only good in arid areas.
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Posted: 5/16/2012 7:41:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Multicam
Central Texas  |
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Posted: 5/16/2012 8:33:31 AM EDT
[#31]
Unless you have on a black belt................where the hell are you?
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Posted: 5/17/2012 12:25:14 AM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By Gopher: Unless you have on a black belt................where the hell are you? Dead center in the photo, 10m from the camera  |
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Posted: 5/17/2012 8:23:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Damn!
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Posted: 5/17/2012 5:28:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By Gopher:
Damn! |
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USA
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Posted: 5/17/2012 9:53:49 PM EDT
[#35]
I found you thanks to your hands. Multicam works great
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Posted: 5/22/2012 7:29:43 PM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 5/31/2012 7:02:57 PM EDT
[#37]
I received a nice box of goodies from the German Sabre De company today. Now I can be the most tacticool Limey mall ninja! I have to say, the build quality and features on these is amazing. So many damned pockets!  'Special Forces' Smock Gen 3 in Pencott Greenzone: 'Special Forces' Shirt Gen 2 Pencott Greenzone:  'Sniper Hose' Pencott Greenzone Front (1st) and back (2nd) images. The pockets are on the back of the trousers, as they are meant for shooters laying prone:   |
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USA
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Posted: 5/31/2012 7:05:45 PM EDT
[#38]
That would definitely be great camo for most of Northern Europe. You'd disappear in Sweden wearing that Pencott.
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USA
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Posted: 5/31/2012 9:55:34 PM EDT
[#39]
nice, got a link for sabre de ?
how was it dealing with them ? did you have to wait to get the gear delivered ? |
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Posted: 5/31/2012 10:48:22 PM EDT
[#40]
do you have any pics of it while outside?
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Posted: 6/1/2012 4:25:46 AM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By ImpacTT: I'll leave the link 'cold' so as not to rustle any feathers, as they aren't an industry partner. http://www.sabre-shop.de/nice, got a link for sabre de ? how was it dealing with them ? did you have to wait to get the gear delivered ? Some things to bear in mind: The website is in German, although they say that they have a US/UK English site coming soon. They only accept PayPal or direct bank transfers (credit cards and debit cards are not trusted as much it seems). The wait for my gear was not that long at all (probably 5 days), but then Germany to the UK isn't quite the same as Germany to the USA. Originally Posted By Shawnmt6601: I haven't had the chance to make proper use of it myself, but I do have some photos that other people have posted, in similar terrain/vegetation to my area:do you have any pics of it while outside? .      |
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USA
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Posted: 6/1/2012 9:46:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ImpacTT]
[#42]
that looks very effective..
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Posted: 6/2/2012 4:46:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By ImpacTT: that looks very effective.. It seems to be most effective in mossy areas, and lush grassland. I mean, while it's not going to work everywhere, even within my very green locale , but in the parts it does work, it works scarily well. It does such a good job of blurring out shapes and outlines, that I have to actually really look to see the pockets and flaps and stuff on the jacket and trousers. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 8/3/2012 4:05:26 PM EDT
[#44]
I have some Atac FG shots here in the jungle.
7 Yards 
Zoomed @ 7yds. 
15 yds 
Z@15yd 
25 yds 
Z@25 
I'm going to say the pattern is not great in silhouette. It's really great behind even slight concealment. In all those pics, if I was wearing , say, black; you would be able to see my entire outline. You can see through that brush. |
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Posted: 8/23/2012 9:28:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hawkeye]
[#45]
So far, this year has been an awesome year for new camo patterns. Tru-Spec has continued the trend, by bringing out their new All Terrain Tiger pattern. I just got a set in to check out and wanted to give some initial thoughts. Tru-Spec did these under their TRU line. I've been a fan of their solid Coyote TRU's for some time now, so I had high expectations for these.
Some years back, I was running Tru-Spec's older Desert Tiger Stripe BDU's. I really liked the pattern and colors, but wished that it had a bit more brown in it, and came in something other than the 100% cotton that it was. The All Terrain Tiger is exactly what I used to wish for. Now, my current favorite is Propper's A-TAC FG BDU's, so thats what my basis for comparison of these will be from. In departure from most of their other TRU offerings, instead of being 65/35 Poly/Cotton ripstop, these are 50/50 NYCO ripstop. I'm a big fan of 50/50 NYCO, so thats a plus for these right out of the gate. The stitching and construction appear to be very well done. Thats another area where Tru-Spec has come a LONG way from where they were just 8 years or so ago. The colors in the pattern appear to be quite well done as well. The primary being a very good coyote brownish color, with the other colors being various browns and tans. On the surface, I think it will work quite well in the field. I plan on getting some pics of video of that up soon, so we'll see how well it does or doesnt work. My initial thoughts are that this should be a very effctive, and very versatile pattern. Below are some pics alone and also along side Multicam, A-TACS AU, and A-TACS FG. I've heard a few people say that the ATT looks like multicam, but it doesnt look at all like multicam. Both the pattern and colors used are quite different. My only two druthers at the moment, are with the boonie hat and the combat shirt. I'd like to see a slightly narrower brim on the boonie ( the the wider one on it will provide very good sun protection) as well as a slightly stiffer brim. On the combat shirt, I'd like to see a darker body color that the tan used. Maybe something along the lines of the base coyote brown color in the pattern itself. A patterned based, such as the Propper A-TACS combat shirts have, would be even better. I'll try to offer some more thoughts after I get a little use in with them, and hope to get some video and such done in the next few days as well. 
Combat shirt, front and back. 
Propper A-TACS FG and Tru-Spec ATT combat shirts. 
Multicam, ATT, A-TACS AU, A-TACS FG 
Multicam, ATT 
ATT, A-TACS AU 
ATT, A-TACS FG 
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Posted: 8/24/2012 5:26:51 PM EDT
[#46]
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USA
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Posted: 8/24/2012 6:17:09 PM EDT
[#47]
nice pics .thanks.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2012 6:41:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Multicam + Ghillie and Burlap, no natural vegetation.
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Posted: 8/24/2012 9:46:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT9.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT10.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT11.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT12.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT13.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT14.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT15.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT16.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Hawkeye1/Gear/UW%20Gear/ATT17.jpg It seems to look a lot like multicam from a distance to me could you tell if it did better then multica? |
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Posted: 8/24/2012 10:29:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hawkeye]
[#50]
Here, yes. Better than Multicam. Its has a lot more brown in it than multicam does. Now, that does not mean that Multicam doesnt work, or doesnt work here mind you.
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