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AL, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2008 12:25:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: calicojack]
So there are quite a few choices out there when it comes to med pouches (IFAK/BOK). So let's discuss them a tad. I'll start with this:
I've had a ctd clamshell style in the past. At the time it road at about 4 o'clock on my plate carrier. Both the plate carrier and the pouch have both been sold since. Here's a short list of most of the kit i have been able to find. HSGI Bleeder Pouch Paraclete Quad Fold Medical Pouch Paraclete SOF Individual Aid Pouch Eagle Medical Pouch ATS Small Medical Pouch ATS Large Medical Pouch TAG Medical Pouch TAG Folding Medical Pouch Endom Bomb Tactical Tailor Zippered Utility Pouch (will discuss after listing) Tactical Tailor Medic Pouch Spec-ops Brand Medical Pouch John Willis's Tear Off Ifak So as you can tell there are three main styles that the various Vendors produce. The Clamshell style, Such as the Eagle Medical pouch; The quad fold, such as the paraclete; and a half zip such as the TT Zipper utility and the hsgi bleeder. As an arm chair commando the only downside to most of these, that i can tell, is that they must stay attached to your rig. with the exception of very few. and unfortunatly the colors on the few tear offs is usually limited to OD, Coyote or acu. Tactical Tailor makes a tear off adapter for the ones that don't tear off. Again, you have limited availability of colors, and your adding more thickness to your kit. Adding this you now have two rows of malice clips attached to your kit, plus the thickness of adapter. So. Those of you who have actually had to use your ifaks, or have had to carry them on an actual op (ie: leo or .mil) please chime in here. Tell us what style you prefer and why. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2008 12:07:41 PM EDT
[#1]
i'd like to hear(read that is) what people have to say about this too. i'm still fiddling with where to put mine and what to put in it and i know that part of its personal preferance and what you practice with, but any and all input helps.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2008 1:31:33 PM EDT
[#2]
see i'm leaning towards a tear off. or some sort of quad fold insert for say an saw pouch. ATS has their clamshell insert but it's for more a nagelene bottle pouch. I've got two places to put mine. either on my chest rig (preferred i think) or on my up coming molle belt purchase. I had my old clamshell on at about 4 o'clock position on my old plate carrier, but the downside to that was that it wasn't readily available to me, so i could use it on myself. it would have required a buddy to treat me.
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Posted: 6/28/2008 2:39:06 PM EDT
[#3]
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AL, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2008 4:19:05 PM EDT
[#4]
hrm. all their descriptions read the same. with the exception of the very last line.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2008 4:24:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JohnWillis]
[#5]
We make them in almost every color. We also have old school woodland, 6 color choc chip desert, and ranger green. We dont make those three colors in any number but do have the materials. We make 200 of these pouches a month right now and will be upping that to 500 as soon as we complete the move to Camden TN. TRG Usually has all the colors. Blk, od, Khaki, CB, Folaige, ACU, And ocasioanly Multicam. TRG stocks many items and if they show them on the site they are in stock. http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=58&sort=2a&page=1 Over 80% of the time I see a thread with a guy talking about long wait times its usually not even a customer. Its some one repeating what he "heard" or Read" John Willis www.SOEtacticalgear.com |
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Posted: 6/28/2008 4:47:21 PM EDT
[#6]
How I run my IFAK/BOK (actually my second, to use on others):
 1. Maxpedition M1 Waistpack 2. 3 Pairs Nitrile Gloves (they live in the front zippered pouch of the M1) 3. EMT Shears (tucked behind M1, through the MOLLE loops) 4. AAA LED flashlight 5. Tetra 1-way valve* 6. 14 Ga. Angiocath* 7. USGI O.D. mylar casualty blanket 8. Wallyworld Poncho (Blaze/Safety Orange) 9. H&H TK4 Tourniquet 10. Izzy Bandage & Bloodstopper Gauze (vacuum sealed together) 11. 28 Fr. NPA* 12. 80mm Guedel Airway* 13. H&H compressed gauze This is run on a drop-leg platform/shingle where it ends up at 10:00. IOW, I can get to the contents when kneeling (both or one knee), with a slight roll if prone, or while supine. The Maxpedition is way higher profile than I'd like when loaded, and eventually I'll end up with one of John's pouches, but the point is that with the pouch on a panel as posted above, you can get to the contents with either hand in a variety of positions. *shrugs* It works in theory and in the limited number GSW scenario drills we've run at the range with the medics. *Get some training, and let's keep the "but you don't have an NREMT cert" conversation for a different thread. 
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OK, USA
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Posted: 6/28/2008 5:02:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Maguzi308]
[#7]
Here's a couple kit's
blackwater ........... recce gear................TT..............Army IFAK  blackwater ........... recce gear.............Army IFAK..............TT  I have a few more will post later. Battlelab OD pouch Emdom Fatty OD Recce Large IFAK has this "Tactical Tailor makes a tear off adapter for the ones that don't tear off". |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 12:54:03 AM EDT
[#8]
OST. Please ID the various brands for us. |
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Posted: 6/29/2008 7:36:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Not_so_Clever]
[#9]
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AL, USA
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Posted: 7/3/2008 6:42:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: calicojack]
[#10]
paging eggrolly:
you wanna make me a quad fold tear off med pouch? |
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Posted: 7/3/2008 11:27:58 PM EDT
[#11]
The extra "thickness" added by using a tear off adapter is negligible to me, it is not like you are adding an inch of extra thickness. So I feel any extra thickness is offset by the utility of the adapter.
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Posted: 7/4/2008 12:30:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#12]
Just to clarify, but the HSGI Bleeder/Blowout is not a clamshell zip. Think more along the lines of an M4 mag pouch-sized pocket - 3x3x7. You have to pull everything out to get to the bottom items. I managed to fit a VOK in there, but had to remove it from the outer package. One other VOK had lost the vacuum seal on the H bandage, and there was absolutely no way to fit that one in. No problem - that kit just rides in my range bag.
For all that, however, I'm still pretty happy with it. For a compact pouch that holds the essentials, it's fine. Sitting on an HSGI Popper, it's a slick little setup. Just don't expect to put a mobile hospital in there. I haven't had to use my kit, nor am I .mil or LEO. I do, however, have more than a passing familiarity with needing to access emergency medical supplies in a hurry. Hope this helps. Here are lousy cell phone pics of the pouch on a Popper:  
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LA, USA
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Posted: 7/4/2008 1:59:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Neez]
[#13]
While in Iraq I had a Blackhawk strike medical (Early version) I didn't like the interior harldy any retention and wasn't Large enough for The izzy dressing scissors gloves and a couple of other things. I liked The emdom though. |
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Posted: 7/4/2008 11:14:25 AM EDT
[#14]
I've had difficulty in the past with my older attached medical kit while doing range duty and on warrant services. You don't realize it's a pain in the ass to access, until the time comes.
When I saw that OSOE was making a tear off unit, I jumped it in foliage as it came closet to my RG gear. There's no turning back now for sheer convenience. I wear mine at the 6 o'clock position on my LE-CIRAS which allows for either hand to access it and keeps me "slim" for doorways and staircases. It's more than large enough for my (or my team mates) immediate medical needs and small enough not to be a "butt pack". When it comes time for use, I can kneel with it, pass it off to another officer or carry into the E.R. to re-stock it without looking like I'm going to war. Detachable is the only way to go for my needs. Now, of course, I see that John will make a RG kit. I can hear the money train leaving the station now! |
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Posted: 7/4/2008 9:57:28 PM EDT
[#15]
My favorite is the ATS IFAK pouch.
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Posted: 7/8/2008 12:34:57 AM EDT
[#16]
I've got the BDS one found here
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Posted: 7/8/2008 1:34:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Both the ATS small and large medic pouches are tear-off with extra retention, and come in a multitude of colors (RG, Coyote, Black, MC)
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Posted: 7/8/2008 6:08:27 AM EDT
[#18]
That ATS low pro medical insert combined with a nalgene sized pouch looks like it's just what the doctor ordered for the SKD chest rig that is so popular right now. I've been looking for a solution like that ever since I got the rig.
Good job to whomever thought that piece of gear up. Can't wait to try it out. |
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Posted: 7/8/2008 1:34:02 PM EDT
[#19]
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2008 4:03:36 PM EDT
[#20]
I use an Eagle med pouch on my rig. It has withstood two rigourous week-long courses with no problems (multiple mouting and dismounting from cramped, POS rusty and shot-up cars).
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Posted: 7/26/2008 11:52:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Anybody have any luck ordering from BDS Tactical? I emailed them a few months ago about a Multicam Buttpack but never received a response.
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Posted: 7/27/2008 3:00:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SectorClear]
[#22]
I prefer non medical specific pouches for blowout kits. The med pouches are usually too restrictive in placement and room for the gear that I like to have in a kit.
For my guys I took thier USGI IFAKs tossed them and bought up some Spec Ops GP pouches. Here's the packing list: 1- Israeli bandage 2- H&H Kerlix 1- Quick Clot guaze 1- 4" Ace wrap 2- CAT 2-SOF-T 2- Hyfin Chest Seals 2- 14G 3" Catheters 2- 28 Fr NPA 1- Saline lock set 1- foil blanket 1- 3" tape 1- trauma shears 1- BM seatbelt cutter 2- IR Chem   We can go pretty far with interventions with this kit and not have to bust out the CLS bag. Obviously if you are a civilian and are not certified to the proper NREMT level to attempt some of the interventions listed, then you should not use the stuff, simple. All my guys are CLS+ trained. The most high speed pouch or neato class VIII won't do you any good unless you are trained. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2008 3:02:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JohnWillis]
[#23]
Stoner63A----
Several of their dealers have sought us out and say they are out of business. Phone calls are not returned and they have had to cherge of credit cards to get refunded. Their butt pack is a not so good copy of ours. http://www.originalsoegear.com/butt.html John Willis www.SOEtacticalgear.com Here are some post from a google search for bds tactical. Before doing business read a few of these: Here is a great one. http://couragewithoutfear.typepad.com/courage_without_fear/2006/01/this_company_su.html http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/463106881/m/3931025843?r=4141098073#4141098073 http://www.airsoftcore.com/forum/index.php?s=9476726c6dce57f8ffc05242105feb67&showtopic=49634&pid=482186&st=0&#entry482186 http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=196614 http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=10&t=245291 http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=10&t=245969 http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/463106881/m/7851014982?r=5051075192#5051075192 http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/463106881/m/5421073893?r=2531093893#2531093893 http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/463106881/m/7261076392?r=4811013492#4811013492 http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/463106881/m/7341046904?r=6921083114#6921083114 http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/463106881/m/2311006273/p/1 http://getoffthex.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/463106881/m/5891059404?r=5891059404#5891059404 |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 3:26:35 AM EDT
[#24]
Dont really agree with this. I think it is acceptable to have items in a BOK that you are untrained on for the cases where you are taken out of the fight and a person with higher levels of training arrie in order to render aid. They may be able to make use of the gear while you cant. |
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Posted: 7/27/2008 8:15:18 AM EDT
[#25]
Didn't say you shouldn't have it, just that you shouldn't use it. Hopefully when you buy it you know what you are buying and somewhat how it works. The problem is when joe blow does a needle thoracotomy on a person and bisects an intercostal artery. |
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Posted: 8/1/2008 2:00:48 PM EDT
[#26]
good post
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/16/2008 1:27:51 PM EDT
[#27]
well i got what i thought were esstac mini-med talls off the EE. they aren't the esstac as far as i can tell. no label and they don't look the same. but they are the same dimension. 6"x3.5x2.5.
Let me tell you, they are as small if not smaller than the hsgi bleeder pouch. I was able to squeeze in 1 isreali bandage, 1 CAT, and one small package of quickclot into it. and let me tell you, there IS NOT much more room for anything else. MAYBE a Nasal Airway. After mounting them I did realize that i don't have much more real estate for anything much bigger. I was originally going to go with the ats small pouch. Gotta look into how many channels it takes up. if i can get it on like two or three it'll be good to go. if not, i might have to look into something else. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 8/17/2008 9:09:34 PM EDT
[#28]
well these are Esstac mini-med's ( tall and long )
 and they are small. I think the only reason they are 'med' pouches ( at least the tall one ) is that it opens up all the way. I just use them for GP/utility pouches. the 'long' works great on the waist belt for backpacks. |
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Posted: 9/2/2008 1:30:24 PM EDT
[#29]
So I stopped by Old Grouches Surplus in Clyde NC this past weekend to talk with Garand_Shooter.
While was there I bought some IFAK's. I threw one in my Mini EOD pouch from HSGI. I need to find a little bit bigger pouch, but the IFAK's were a good price @ $50.00 I'm gonna add a couple more Items and I'll have a complete one that would normally cost $100+. I'm also gonna pick up one of their First responder kits after I go through BLET. CXS |
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Posted: 9/3/2008 12:52:12 PM EDT
[#30]
I'm a BOK Newbie. Have no clue what's good, what's not, etc...
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KY, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2008 11:42:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Stephen Hilliard came up with that. |
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Posted: 9/7/2008 3:43:00 PM EDT
[#32]
I run an Original SOE tear-off IFAK with retention strap on my MWRL. This is the perfect med kit. Well organized and bomb proof!
I've got another rig set up with an OSOE 6x6 utility pouch to hold a VOK. |
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Posted: 9/14/2008 12:12:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Backstop]
[#33]
Hiya goose (at least I think I know you)
I'm using an ATS small medical tear off pouch now. Tourniquet, Quickclot sponge, 2 Israeli bandages, a few small bandages, and scissors.  I found the OSOE one just a little too big. But there is no denying goose's comments; OSOE gear is top shelf. |
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Posted: 9/16/2008 2:56:24 AM EDT
[#34]
When we do specail details our when go out for warrants, we can run into all kinds of shit. not just the worst case such as gun shots or knife wounds, but sometimes its just the small stuff that gets ya. Getting cut hopping a wall or haveing to run around in a backyard full of junk chaseing someone. Had one fellow get cut up on glass afte taking out a window during a search warrant.
We keep a large med-kit in the patrol car for the serious SHTF type stuff and hold on till EMS arrives, but there have been times when a small cut is still a pain in the ass but cant leave to get away. I rigged up this little critter that I run as a drop leg style platform that I run on my support side. Handy, in the sense it can clip on to anybelt with a Velcro loop so anyone can carry it, any time and with the buckles, it can be taken off and given to another. Also, the whole med bag comes out so anyone can walk up and grab if I am busy. Simple stuff, nothing to advanced, but just enough to take care of bumps, bruises and nasty cuts and keep someone in the game for the day. Its a generic MOLLE leg platform with a ammo pouch. I happened to have an old first aid kit that fit into perfectly. And the subdued 1st Aid patch, I guess case things are really bad.    |
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Posted: 10/1/2008 8:34:57 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 10/1/2008 9:08:18 PM EDT
[#36]
  CXS |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2008 9:32:20 PM EDT
[#37]
x is that the kit you got from garand?
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Posted: 10/1/2008 9:36:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Backstop]
[#38]
Custom,
What are you planning on doing with those 3.25 and 5.25 caths? Just curious. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2008 9:57:13 PM EDT
[#39]
i would imagine the cats would be for whomever is working on him to be able to push fluids....
don't forget the idea behind the ifak is; when you go down and are out of the fight, for your buddies to be able to work on you to either a) stop the bleeding until you can get further treatment, or to get you back into the fight. they aren't really designed for you to work on yourself. |
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Posted: 10/1/2008 10:02:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Backstop]
[#40]
Yeah, I can understand that.
But unless I'm reading that wrong, one of those caths is 5.25 inches. What's he shooting for, a sub-clavian? I've started a metric boatload of IVs, and I really wouldn't even care to try and use one of those on an arm, leg, etc. Also, a 14 is kinda big for extremities. It can be done, and I've done it. But if the pt is in any kind of distress - hypovolemia, circ shock, etc - it may be tough. Regardless, I'm just curious. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2008 10:06:22 PM EDT
[#41]
ah. sorry. misunderstood your question.
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Posted: 10/1/2008 10:08:05 PM EDT
[#42]
No worries, calico.
 I probably didn't chose my words very well...I'm tired. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 12:21:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Custom-X_Sponjah]
[#43]
Not my kit.. I ganked the pics out of the thread linked above my post..
I do not have any catheters in my Med Kit. I probably will be adding more Items after some formal medical training, but as of now its just a standard IFAK no Caths.. I think I read something about chest decompression during TENSION PNEUMOTHORAX... But again.. I have no Idea... CXS |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 6:29:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Cool.
I was just curious. |
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Posted: 10/2/2008 9:45:35 AM EDT
[#45]
This is the answer (that no one likes to talk about). For those who are going to cry about it,  here's the disclaimer:DO NOT perform invasive procedures that are above your training, certification, and/or expertise. The caths in my kit are for qualified medics to use on me should the necessity arise. If you want to needle chests, go to med school. |
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Posted: 10/3/2008 3:12:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#46]
Tension pneumo is usual reason folks carry them. Longer catheters allow penetration through thicker layers of tissue. If you have a 3.25" catheter going through 3 inches of fat & muscle, that only leaves 1/4" of catheter to do its job.
I have also used a 14g catheter through the cricothyroid membrane to do emergency jet ventilation. It's not great, but gives more oxygen than a completely collapsed airway. You can hopefully provide enough O2 until the airway obstruction is cleared, a retrograde intubation (wire through the catheter up into the mouth) is performed, or you do a formal cricothyrotomy (again, can use the catheter as a conduit for guidewires found in some kits). Realize that things are very dire when it comes to this point, as you are using a last-ditch technique to provide oxygen or the patient will die. That's a fairly advanced usage, and I absolutely DO NOT recommend attempting it without specialized training. The saline lock set pictured above looks like it includes an 18g catheter. That's really what I consider to be a minimum for trauma, but is better than nothing when trying to find collapsing veins in a patient leaking blood onto the ground. Running blood cells through smaller (e.g. 20g) runs a risk of mechanically destroying the cells, especially if infused at a higher rate. An extra 14g cath could be a lifesaver, allowing rapid infusion of fluid & blood products on arrival to a receiving facility. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/3/2008 9:32:22 AM EDT
[#47]
+1. This is the truth
You got to stop the bleeding first before worrying about replacing fluids. |
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Posted: 10/3/2008 1:36:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FMD]
[#48]
...not to mention the efficacy of permissive hypotension, but that's a thread for a different forum.
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Posted: 10/3/2008 8:30:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Azygos]
[#49]
I'm not disagreeing with either of your statements, since they relate to initial stabilization prior to the time they come through my OR door. My points were more directed at those who carry IV sets and actually plan to start an IV in the field. I'm just saying that if you're going to put in an IV anyway, err on the side of a larger catheter. That's more of an end-user comment from the guy that actually has to replace the fluid & blood once the victim makes it to the operating room. If a trauma patient has huge veins and you stick a 20g in his antecub, IMHO that's a waste of prime real estate. Chances are good that I or one of the trauma guys would stick a 9fr Cordis in anyway, but sometimes you need all the IV access you can get. FWIW, I like the VOK and don't carry IV access supplies unless planning to be far away from EMS. That decision is based on expected response time as well as the good points you both mentioned. FWIW, I'll be taking the ATLS class later this year from the newest edition of the manual. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, they say about hemorrhage control prior to the traditional ABCDEs in the PHTLS setting. I know in the past that their doctrine has lagged a little behind lessons learned from modern combat & emphasized airway first. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2008 8:10:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hemopneumothorax]
[#50]
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