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User Panel
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2007 3:39:41 PM EDT
[#1]
This is a good question. I really don't have the answer. But I do know this. In jungle/tropical areas where the temperatures often reach 100 degrees or more and the humidity is off the charts, excessive gear will cause as many casualties as the enemy's bullets. That said, we now have armor capable of stopping rifle rounds. It would seem a difficult choice not to use it. But I also recall that many units in Vietnam left behind their flak jackets when they went "outside the wire" because the weight and increased heat in an already stiffling environment kicked their asses. I dunno what choice the US military would make in such a situation. I do think if we find ourselves in a jungle war again, we may see 100% cotton ripstop type jungle fatigues issued again in place of the ACU pattern and material. But I suspect that they would stick with the body armor required right now. And while it will do a good job stopping bullets, it would create a lot of heat exhaustion and heat stroke worries, as well as severely slowing down units on the move. If I were given the choice in what I'd operate in when it came to a tropical jungle environment, it would be wearing Vietnam type jungle fatigues made of 100% cotton ripstop, jungle boots and some sort of ALICE or MOLLE belt setup. I'd also believe in going as light as possible, leaving behind a lot of the creature comforts while focusing on packing lots of ammo and water. In such heat, one doesn't eat all that much anyway, but you sure as hell drink lots of water. By doing so, I'd definately be increasing my risk to take a bullet or a piece of shrapnel to a vital area, but I'd definately be reducing the weight I carried significantly, allowing me to move faster, with fewer stops, with less heat stress and in some cases better stealth. |
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Posted: 5/2/2007 5:23:12 PM EDT
[#2]
I sold all my Gear before moveing to SWFL
It sat most of the time collecting dust! My friends and I would use it while camping and playing army  Now I wished I kept it |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2007 3:28:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: arrrrgh15]
[#3]
Yes, good question. I can imagine that once you get your first casualty that was not wearing all the armor, politicians would be raising holy hell. Temperature wise, I'd imagine that iraq and the jungle are similar, but as was pointed out above, the humidity would be quite a bit different. With the armor I would imagine a lot of heat casualties. I had the fortune of training at Ft. Stewart in the summer years ago and saw a few guys (mostly combat engineers working during the day) flown out because of heat strokes. They were not acclimated. Most of the stuff we did was at night, and in swamp water, so the heat wasn't as bad. But during the day it was oppressive. Perhaps in the jungle environment you'll be trading the armor since you would likely have better concealment. Right now if a soldier steps out in the open he's...out in the open, where anybody can take a crack at him. In the jungle, it might be a little different. So what are the guys in the hotter, more humid locations wearing now (Georgia, Hawaii, etc.)? My guess is, they'd get issued what they get issued and they'd just have to suck it up and drive on. I'd be interested in finding out if anybody has the answer. ETA: DRINK WATER!!!! |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2007 1:23:01 AM EDT
[#4]
This thread needed one more bump.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2007 12:57:42 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm glad I found this thread. I'm working on my ALICE setup now. Was wondering about making my own internal frame for the ALICE pack. I was thinking about cutting and molding a sheet of plastic for the back and sides. Anyone ever done this or worked with plastic? Thanks.
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Posted: 5/18/2007 1:34:24 PM EDT
[#6]
I've seen pictures of SF guys working in the Phillipines and they're all using old duece (LC2) gear and no armor.
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Posted: 5/18/2007 1:36:35 PM EDT
[#7]
There's no internal pocket for a frame, like there is in the Eagle A-III (and other) packs. For that ruck, an improved external frame is the way to go. Unfortunately, a good frame is worth 10X that of the ALICE pack. Get the USGI frame and improve the wasit pad and straps and you'll be good to go. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 5/19/2007 11:54:41 PM EDT
[#8]
They aren't going out on combat ops either. |
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Posted: 5/20/2007 12:06:56 AM EDT
[#9]
 
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USA
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Posted: 5/20/2007 1:02:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: q3131]
[#10]
For those of you stuck in the past, FMCO makes awesome ALICE pouches in many colors.
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Posted: 5/20/2007 1:40:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Will USGI work with my Canuck gear? Ours sort of had plastic tabs you fitted into the holes ont he belt, then velcro strapping overtop to hold secure...
How rough is it to slap a pack on overtop of the suspenders? I like the suspenders for day jogs, but have just ordered a full Molle pack for 3 day + hunting adventures, and would prefer to be able to wear both to base camp. oh and any suggestions for better puches? My main puiches are bren gun mag opouches..... I live in Canada, and that is what was common when I built this rig 
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/20/2007 8:16:31 PM EDT
[#12]
+1 for FMCO! I buy all my stuff from them. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2007 12:34:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Charging_Handle]
[#13]
Damn! They have a pouch for nearly anything you can dream up! Lots of odd stuff included such as M-1 Garand en bloc clip pouches and SKS stripper clip pouches, AK mag pouches for 30 rounders and 75 round drums! They even have a 6 mag pouch for M1 Carbine 30 rounders! FMCO freakin' rocks! Thank you so much for that link. I cannot believe I haven't located them before now. BTW, will the short MALICE clips fit these pouches properly if I removed the ALICE clips? I would like to be able to attach those pouches to a regular duty belt as opposed to a web belt, because I like the way the duty belt resists sagging and twisting under heavier loads. But ALICE clip pouches just don't fit right over the much thicker duty belt. Or, I suppose one could do away with the clips completely and tie them on with a generous amount of 550 cord? Doesn't a lot of people do that to begin with? |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2007 1:06:07 AM EDT
[#14]
550 cord or zip ties are popular and work very well. They are also lighter and quieter. |
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Posted: 5/21/2007 1:29:20 AM EDT
[#15]
and don't stick in your side as much |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2007 1:46:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Thanks guys. I hadn't considered the zip ties, but I bet those would kick major ass. They are tough as nails and should allow for a very tight cinch. I'll have to attach some pouches using both 550 cord and the zip ties to see which I like best then go from there.
I think I will order myself a bunch of various pouches from that FMCO website and fix up a variety of rigs. One could actually set up several capable rigs using the old belt and suspenders route and still end up spending less money than on many single dedicated rig setups. Granted, I do prefer OD colored duty belts such as those from Tactical Tailor and the Blackhawk or TAG suspenders that wrap around the belt as opposed to the hook/eyelet connection of genuine ALICE gear. But that's still relatively inexpensive, about $20 for the belt and about $30 for the suspenders. Pouches are cheap and plentiful. With that, you can end up with an affordable, sturdy, rigid and comfortable setup that you can haul an assload of gear with. And it won't melt you in Summer heat by trapping all your body heat inside a vest or a plate carrier. BTW, this thread has really turned into a great guide in "how-to" when it comes to this stuff. It's very interesting how many people prefer to stick to ALICE or similar gear setups when the MOLLE stuff is all the rage right now. But it truly is simple, functional and manageable gear that works. I suppose that's why this thread is well into it's 3rd page and headed for many more. |
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Posted: 5/21/2007 8:30:01 AM EDT
[#17]
These looked like patrol pictures (villages, mountains, etc.), not garrison. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 5:07:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Ok I will clarify. They are on training missions but are legally restricted from actual combat so that's why they aren't wearing body armor in the field. If they were executing DA missions over there I'm sure they would be wearing armor. Back to topic at hand, this is a great thread and while plate carriers have a role and are required for military serving in Iraq or A-stan, the LBE and LCE offer great alternatives with various customizing options for other scenarios. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 7:37:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Nice setup.....makes me rethink my whole MOLLE setup...
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Posted: 5/22/2007 8:23:03 AM EDT
[#20]
good thread.
bump for more pics. |
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Posted: 5/22/2007 9:34:13 AM EDT
[#21]
I'm thinking some of you fellas' must be rather . . . how should I say it . . . portly?
 I've got a 36" waist - and there's NO WAY I could get all that stuff on my web/pistol belt!  Anybody know if there are drop-leg rigs available with pistol mag carriers/pouches on them? Getting my 2X2 pistol pouches off my belt MIGHT be a solution - freeing up (much needed), space for a butt-pack. (Plus, having my K-bar on my suspender makes getting out a pistol mag a real challange, too! I DO like having the knife there, tho.) Thanks. |
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Posted: 5/22/2007 10:39:54 AM EDT
[#22]
oh, the good ol days of light figtin with the LCE...
 The best use for any ALICE gear, ever 
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 4:04:54 PM EDT
[#23]
LOL....I use the HSGI drop Holster which has 2 magazine holders on it for spares, it gave me room for more stuff/junk... |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 4:14:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Here is my stuff, always changing.
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 5:58:50 PM EDT
[#25]
 my new firstline setup what do you guys think? |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 7:36:42 PM EDT
[#26]
looks good, but i would chunk the shovel to carry some pistol/rifle mags or more water/food. What are the 2 pouches on the left? I bought one the other day because i liked it, but not sure what it is.
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Posted: 5/22/2007 7:58:42 PM EDT
[#27]
They're original 20 round mag pouches I think... +1 on not having a shovel on your first line. Whats your second line? A chest rig or vest? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 8:20:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: captplanit]
[#28]
shovel is pretty crucial...
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 8:51:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Where did you get that first aid pouch...I like that
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2007 9:35:07 PM EDT
[#30]
+1 on getting rid of the shovel from the first line gear. I'd recommend fastening that thing to your pack with some 550 cord if you insist on carrying it.
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Posted: 5/22/2007 9:43:07 PM EDT
[#31]
tag for later
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MS, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2007 5:27:43 AM EDT
[#32]
posting to get past 666 replies.
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IA, USA
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Posted: 5/23/2007 6:15:17 AM EDT
[#33]
I found that the old Four-mag 20 round pouchs are good for carrying ammo on stripper clips if you don't use a bandolier (either the disposable one or the one available on the EE).
Good thread. Sorry don't have any pics of mine.  
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Posted: 5/24/2007 7:37:01 PM EDT
[#34]
so besides fmco where else can i find lbe gear
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/24/2007 10:52:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Brigade Quartermasters (www.actiongear.com) has plenty of it too, though they lack some of the stuff that FMCO offers...such as the Garand, M1 Carbine, SKS pouches and probably the 20 rd AR mag pouches. |
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Posted: 5/24/2007 11:01:09 PM EDT
[#36]
Surplus stores are good, I would spend some time looking through a couple. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2007 3:10:02 AM EDT
[#37]
The Sportsman Guide has a ton of surplus gear ( one of the 800 per month catalogs they send out is nothing but surplus stuff ) USGI and all sorts of foreign countrys. They sell a whole set of lbe that includes-suspenders,pistol belt, 2 M-16 ammo pouches,canteen with cover, and butt pack for $30 
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Posted: 5/25/2007 7:38:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: weptek911]
[#38]
+1 on the above, but check ebay too. You can usually get a whole LC-1 setup for $10-$15 bucks plus shipping. use the search option and look for " ammo pouches" and ALICE gear. |
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Posted: 5/25/2007 9:39:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#39]
Here's a good starter set $30... www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=70920 ...find another canteen w/cover, couple of first aid packets (throw in some zip ties and 100mph tape) and you're on your way |
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Posted: 5/25/2007 9:51:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Currahee]
[#40]
Figured I'd throw in a pic of what the back of zip strips holding together LBE looks like compaired to the clips
 Oh, make sure they're pointing down so they won't jam you in the side |
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Posted: 5/25/2007 3:02:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Nice setup. 
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2007 3:57:45 PM EDT
[#42]
wow!
Ditch the eediot stick to a pack, that little chinese ziparound FAK should also get chucked to a pocket or pack pocket. I am surprised that not a single rig here has a pussy pad on the belt - this little contraption goes a LONGGGG way in bearing weight, preventing clip/belt chafe, and load stabilization. a configuration might be along the lines of AMMO AMMO (ute pocket) CANTEEN ASSPACK CANTEEN (holster on drop hanger) AMMO AMMO stick an angle head in one of the grenade pockets H-type suspenders with dressing on weak side shoulder pouches would be attached via 550 loops you may opt to have the rear hangers of the suspenders on the belt vice asspack, that way you can have the ass pack flop down and out of the way of a main pack. Good luck! |
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Posted: 5/25/2007 4:24:51 PM EDT
[#43]
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VA, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2007 9:05:22 AM EDT
[#44]
BTT for more ALICE prOn
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KY, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2007 2:41:30 PM EDT
[#45]
This has been a great thread that should never be allowed to die. One could take stuff from all the posts in here and make an "ALICE Gear Bible" of sorts. Very benefical....especially for newbies or guys looking for different ways of using the gear.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2007 8:04:53 PM EDT
[#46]
www.wardenssupplyco.com |
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Posted: 6/18/2007 8:06:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Yup!
In fact . . . it got ME so fired up and motivated, I ordered a new "Ranger" butt pack from SG . . ! (The one I've been eye-ballin' for months!) Should be here, tomorrow! I just hope I can make room for it, properly - w/o having to ditch my pistol mag pouches! At least, I can easily find a new place in the butt pack for my first aid pouch (which is now badly-located: in the middle of my pistol-belt, anyway!)! I DO wonder how it'll ride with my ALICE pack on, though . . . ! It'll probably be a pain in the ass! (Sure! Why not?)
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CO, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2007 8:10:03 PM EDT
[#48]
you and I have the exact same rig creepy. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 7/16/2007 2:43:11 AM EDT
[#49]
bump
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Posted: 7/17/2007 5:47:14 PM EDT
[#50]
btt
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