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Posted: 3/8/2006 1:41:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SHIVAN]
[#1]
From the ad you linked to....  To be honest, I'm going to run the ID number with PACA/TAP when it gets here, just to see what they say. Also, that price was inline with another guy selling a plate here that I trust, so I figure, it's probably just a deal at a little above dealer cost. Oh, I also found a dealer in Maine that apparently will sell to civilians. They quoted me $980/set for the III+. Or $480/set for the III. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 2:43:29 PM EDT
[#2]
If I had the cash, I'd buy that single plate and put it in an Eagle Rhodesian Chest Rig. 
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 3:01:30 PM EDT
[#3]
I bought rifle plates from Botach for $149 each. Good quality plates too. I hesitate to deal with Botach but their customer service is a little better than it once was. Just be careful. |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 4:24:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: billclo]
[#4]
These are looking awful nice, but I don't have a good price on them yet...www.firstchoicearmor.com/html/popups/plate_set_1.htm. The level IV in-conjunction plates that are 4.8 lbs...it doesn't say if they're multi-hit rated or single hit though.
Galls sells something similar, for $639 per plate, but I'm not sure it's the same one. Gotta find a better price; maybe there's a dealer within a reasonable drive? Have to inquire a little later on when I have the cash. At least the company has some NIJ rated stuff, though it's hard to tell if that particular model is; I expect the NIJ site list is not current. |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 7:07:16 PM EDT
[#5]
There is a lot that goes into deciding what armor would work best. Each person has to look at what their needs are, and what will meet those needs the best.
What is the maximum/minimum amount of armor (reasonably) you may need? What can you afford? What kind of weight do you want to carry? What size and thickness plate do you think will work best for you? How much armor are you willing to wear, and how much mobility are you willing to give up? I've been looking for rifle rated armor off-and-on for about 2 years now. The reason that finally pushed me to get off my but and get these plates, was that I plan on attending a 3 day shoot house class. The requirements were for rifle rated plates, and a soft armor vest. It doesn't make a difference if you have III or III+ or IV, we still need the soft armor. Those requirements started me in a cetain direction. The fact that I already had the soft armor helped expand some of my options. If I didn't have the soft armor, and didn't want to buy it, maybe stand alone armor may have been a better choice. There are so many choices when it comes to ratings too. I've seen a lot of adds for III+, but as of now there is no true NIJ rating as III+. So you are only working on the claims of the company selling the armor. Since I was working with soft armor, and the inserts I made, I felt that the III was more than suitable for my needs. While doing my searching, price was taken into consideration. I'm a single parent of 3 kids, and I definitely don't make a large amount of money. So, price was a big factor. I guess if I had unlimited funds, then maybe another choice may have proven better. With my limited funding, I had to decide on saving a few bucks or spending more. If I had spent a lot more, it probably would of cut out one of my training classes this year. For me, the classes were more important then the higher priced stuff. Another factor in my decision was that I don't use this gear for a living. If I used it all the time, then maybe I would of come up with another setup. In reality, if I ever needed this stuff to save my life; then the world has taken a turn for the worst. I for one hope that I never need this stuff except for training classes and the like. It's still better to have and not to need, then to need and not to have.  Size and weight was another big factor for me. I'm not getting any younger, so weight makes a big difference. I haven't weighed the gear yet, but I would put it close to 30 pounds and that is only with 5 rifle mags in the carrier. If I were to double that amount, it would only get worse. Plus I still have a belt with a holster, dump pouch, and another rifle mag carrier adding to the weight. I had looked at the triple curve stuff, but I felt that it wouldn't work for me. As I get older, the onset of Dunlap disease has creeped in. For those that don't know what Dunlap disease is, that is where you belly dunlapped over your belt. Since the belly is sticking out farther then the chest, triple curve would of been more of problem. Also, the plates I bought were 1/2" thick. That 1/2" pushing all my gear out farther really makes a difference. I would hate to see what a 1" plate would do. My arms are only so long, and trying to work around the added thickness of the gear is a huge factor. If I can't reach one side or the other of my carrier, then that is a problem IMO. Mobility is/was very important for me. I wanted the ability to move, sit, go prone etc... The more gear and armor, the less of this I was going to get. If you haven't tried any of this kind of gear on before, you would be surprised at how much difference it can make. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but I can always add it in later.  |
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USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 7:12:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Anybody know anything about the polyethylene plates?
Using plastic is questionable, but if it works...... |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 8:11:25 PM EDT
[#7]
VA hit the nail on the head, You need to know what you what to do to make your pick.
There is no 3A when it comes to Rifle plates according to NIJ, theirs Level 3 (6 hits with M80 Ball .30 cal) level 4 ( 1 hit with M2 .30 cal AP) The Plates are tested specifically for specific rds. Will a level 4 plate stop a 30/30 Lead nose deer hunting round??? it's not tested for it... but it will.. Prime example level 4 issued SAPI plates (Only level 4 with the Soft Interceptor Armor backing it up) that is issued to our troops is only tested with the 1 rd of M2 .30 Ball, but has been documented to stop 7.62x54R AP rds.... Don't forget that Back face Deformation (Blunt trauma) can be bad. the round may not penetrate a certain plate, but the blunt force trauma may cause serious injuries if the plate was used by itself with out the Level 2A or 3A soft Armor which helps absorb and distribute the blunt trauma. Will the Kejo Level 3 Steel plate stop M855???? if it's backed up with the rated soft Armor it will. if the Plate is used alone it may stop the Round (no penetration) but still do damage to you thru blunt force trauma. Will it stop a 7.62x39MM if used as a stand alone plate without soft Armor?? it's rated to to it. You need to understand the ratings both from NIJ and what the manufacturers test for and decide. I'm like VA... I like the mobility and the weight and weigh that against higher protection. I could be wearing the best level 4 rifle Armor with 3A soft Armor in a CIRAS vest with level 3 side plates, but if I get shot in the face.it's all relative....  The way I look at it it's like shopping for a car that has a good crash test rating, it's Money vs risk and your perception of said risk, We should probably all drive Volvo's based on the testing, but I sure see a lot of Cavaliers and Fiesta's out their.....  Like the Knight in the last Indiana Jones Movie say's...." Choose wisely"
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 9:04:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Submariner]
[#8]
For those who go the Kejo route (certainly a viable choice), the label says Level III protection is conjunction with Level II (soft) armor. Remember that IIA < II < IIIA; Level IIA isn't enough to get the warrantied Level III protection. As far as protection for the brain housing group, what are y'all doing? Got MICH?
What is your expected threat? I asked your question of Dave Pennington on 10-8 not long ago. Here is his response:
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 9:33:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Also be aware that if you take a hit wearing steel plates (even with the ballistic nylon layer laminated over it) the bullet will frag when it impacts. You have a very high chance of taking frag and spall in the throat, neck, and chin, and possibly your upper arms and forearms (and possibly upper legs/thighs if seated in a vehicle). If hit from behind the frag and spall can tear up your butt cheeks or lower legs if kneeling.
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Posted: 3/8/2006 9:44:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Very true, but it's still better than the alternative.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 9:48:15 PM EDT
[#11]
They aren't 'restricted', but be ware of any sold as 'military surplus' - 99% of the time, if it's USGI & it's modern body armor, it's STOLEN... While you won't get arrested if you buy it, you may get a call from CID, NCIS, or OSI about arrangements for the government to get their property back (w/o reimbursement)... |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 9:50:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Can't you put Kevlar "covers" on it? |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 9:56:48 PM EDT
[#13]
For most people, they will not be wearing body armor in any logical gunfight scenario, or they will be wearing employer-issue armor (police, military)... The average civillian isn't going to be putting on your OTV to chase off a burglar, or wearing it to & from work... |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 10:09:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Ceramic vs steel? Anyone?
Scott |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 10:41:48 PM EDT
[#15]
I don't see why you couldn't
In the end, it really comes down to what you're looking for out of your plates. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2006 10:56:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Well I know that, I just don't what the differences are :-) |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 10:58:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SHIVAN]
[#17]
Weight is the only primary difference, because in the end, a steel III plate is only rated to stop the same amount as a ceramic III plate. They may both stop MORE, but the NIJ ratings are the same. Price is the secondary difference. Due to the extra weight it usually costs less. Though I have seen some steel plates that are kinda spendy. |
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Posted: 3/8/2006 11:03:15 PM EDT
[#18]
I've also read that you should be more careful with the ceramic plates. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/9/2006 12:24:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dump1567]
[#19]
I just got the Steel LVL III from KEJO. For the price ($240.00 for two) & the limited amount I would use them, I'm more than happy. 6 1/2lbs. and about a 1/2" thick. Don't have to worry about dropping or cracking. I had my eye on the 5mm DBT steel, but those are double the price, weigh the same and are 8 to 10 weeks out on shipping. In fact, the manufacture www.cat-armor.com/ has had a dead link for about a month now. I'm wondering if they've gone bye bye?
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Posted: 3/9/2006 9:16:10 AM EDT
[#20]
If I had steel plates, I would. The spawling rounds could really F you up.... 
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Posted: 3/9/2006 5:09:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Most steel plates already come with the spall covers. I'm suprised that not all do.
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Posted: 3/10/2006 1:57:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Lynch_Family]
[#22]
Yesterday when I went to the range and one of the guys had a US sapi plate that is suppossed to be an in conjuction plate right. ?? That what I have always thought . Anyway, These guys were testing some rounds on the plate. It was a US sapi plate. The guy fired 6 223 cal. SS109 green tip rounds at it. The first 5 did not go through it. Number 6 round went through it. It only went through because he shot it darn near through another shot. I only caught the last two rounds being fired at it. and was amazed when they brought the sapi plate back for us to see. There wasnt really any deformation or how ever you say it on the back side of the plate. We all sat there and bullshitted for a minute and one of the guys wanted to test some handgun rounds at it. Of course we were like hell ya do it do it. He fired 15 rounds of 124 grn 9mm at it. Not one went through. He then fired his taurus 357 at it. None went through. His buddy fired a 12 gauge slug at it. it went through but it hit were the 223cal hit. Anyway, I think I feel safer now with my 4lb sapi plates. I was actually trying to sell mine to to get some steel plates but I think I am going to hold off for now.
Thanks all. I just thought I would share this with you all. edited to add: Not sure if it matters. But his plate was an extra larget plate. |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 7:44:44 PM EDT
[#23]
You didn't happen to catch the rating on the plate did you? I just want something I feel confident would stop SS109/M855 and .308 ball, but I don't and probably won't own a vest anytime soon. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2006 1:51:37 PM EDT
[#24]
From my limited reading, one thing you have to be careful of with the polyethylene plates is heat and exposure to sunlight. Think about leaving them in the trunk on a hot summer day... If you are buying them second hand, it would be tough to know for sure if they have been treated properly in regards to storage and exposure to heat. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2006 2:28:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Level III will protect from multiple hits from all these rounds. |
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Posted: 3/14/2006 9:44:27 AM EDT
[#26]
I ran my carrier and plates through part of my class this past weekend. Everything worked well while using it. I do need to adjust it a bit more to help the front from trying to pull down too much. I will say that adding plates, makes going prone that much harder.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2006 10:03:01 PM EDT
[#27]
I bet 
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Posted: 3/19/2006 8:10:55 AM EDT
[#28]
tag
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2006 1:09:06 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 3/21/2006 1:20:46 PM EDT
[#30]
*
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Posted: 3/21/2006 1:43:19 PM EDT
[#31]
IMO, it wouldn't be worth the effort and bulk. Rifle bullets don't spawl in very big fragments. The Kejo plates come with a ballistic cloth and padding on the face of the plate. Combine this with a GOOD pals carrier and you are going to catch most if not all of the spawl in these layers. I'm not going to shoot my carrier to prove this however, Sunshine! |
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Posted: 3/21/2006 2:06:45 PM EDT
[#32]
tag.
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Posted: 3/21/2006 2:52:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Question for the guys running Kejo plates:
Since the plates are not "operator" cut do you have any mobility problems? I have a 44" chest, and I was wondering if the plates cause your arms to bow outward, or if you have any problems traversing your weapon. |
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Posted: 3/21/2006 3:15:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Shouldering your weapon feels odd sometimes, but I don't think this would be different if you had the operator cut. You can set the buttstock on the carrier or out towards your bicept. Shooting pistol is a little funky feeling cuz your arms start to hit the top corners of the plate and you can't quite extend your arms 100% straight. Neither of these issues is significant, IMO. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2006 8:02:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Only thing I noticed with my was I had some slip issues with my VLTOR stock. it would slip around on the Cordura of my Callahan because the plates took away the cushion effect. The fix was a $15 rubber butt plate and no problems.
I'm guessing a guy could take a Hacksaw and cut the corners to his liking and then fill in the cut with some epoxy and some pick up truck bedding compound. Your not gonna compromise the steel plate. But I have no mobility issues and like the extra amount of coverage the full plate provides. This is after wearing it 87 times That was for You Mark....
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Posted: 3/21/2006 11:04:31 PM EDT
[#36]
I haven't noticed any problems Kejo plates affecting my mobility. I actually get more restriction from my IIIA vest underneath.
As the previous posters stated, a rubber but pad will go a long way to reduce slipping issues. |
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Posted: 3/21/2006 11:09:17 PM EDT
[#37]
A good recomendation in any situation. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:03:25 AM EDT
[#38]
I don't think a hack saw it going to cut armor plate!
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:09:39 AM EDT
[#39]
tag
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:26:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Well... maybe not one hacksaw... but maybe a few blades... or a grinding disc. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2006 3:38:03 PM EDT
[#41]
I found a great deal on ebay cheep plates hmmm maby I will go with a reputable dealer instead
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2006 4:07:28 PM EDT
[#42]
If you noticed their in Communist China, also they are "replica" plates for training purposes. Ebay normally has alot of plates for sale find some real ones though, getting shot with those wouldn't do much
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2006 6:35:36 PM EDT
[#43]
yea but for $20.00 and they were ceramic replicas, I mean that is a great price. the best part is that if they don't work... you will never complaine
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2006 4:05:16 AM EDT
[#44]
AMEN, BROTHER. I have been researching ballistic plates on the web, and I haven't found many web pages that talk about plates. This is a very important piece of equipment, and there is so much confusing information out there that its difficult to get the right plates. Let's see, ceremic breaks if you drop it, Polyethelene will melt in the heat, and steel will richochet frags into your face. And then there's the composites. I just need information on the right plate to get based on the following criteria:
1. Affords the most multi-hit protection 2. Is under 6 lbs. 3. Is durable and I dont have to baby. Iam a street cop and I plan on only wearing them for long gun calls. I am looking at the Eagle, Blackhawk and Paraclete plate carriers. Any info or experience with this gear will be greatly appreciated. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:52:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dump1567]
[#45]
Here's some threads to check out: www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8632&page=&fpart=1&vc=1 www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=13049&page=&fpart=1&vc=1 I had my eye on the DBT 5mm plates, but when I called DBT about a month ago, they said the plates were on 8 to 10 week back order  . I went with the 6 1/2LB. Kejo at half the cost. The Eagle LE plate carrier finally got listed on Eagle's website. That will be my next purchase.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2006 3:02:59 AM EDT
[#46]
very good link, Thanks
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Posted: 4/1/2006 6:54:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: VA-gunnut]
[#47]
I'm going to tack this one up, given the amount of info we've gotten in it so far.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/1/2006 11:15:47 AM EDT
[#48]
I appreciate the tack and all those that have posted great information and answered questions regarding armor plates.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/6/2006 6:59:51 PM EDT
[#49]
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HI, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2006 9:02:30 PM EDT
[#50]
They dont have a NIJ rating, but will take multiple hits from iraqi issue 7.62x39, US M855 ball, 7.62x54r, and 7.62x51 Nato. They are not to be worn alone, with 5 hits from a AK at 15 meters you will have a ball or deformed plate insides the size of a large orange which the IBA helps absorb to save your ribs from too much damage. If I ever get a good place to do it Im gonna test a few against the 7.62x54r from a tokarev rifle and some 7.62x51 from my M1A to see how they hold up. I can attest to first hand experience that it will stop 7.62x39, at least 5 times with no penetration out the rear, but the backface deformation is whats gonna get you. |
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