I was financially forced to sell my VEPR 12 a few months ago (god i miss it) so now im looking to grab a cheaper pump 12ga for the house. Prior to the VEPR 12 I had a mossberg 590 mariner that was problematic (would not eject spent shell casings without locking up).

So............

is a plain jane 18" Mossberg 500 reliable?  Which remington 870's are considered good? I heard some are absolute trash.

Thanks for any insight.

The cheapest of the 3 is the Mossberg Maverick 88 - a Mossberg 500 w/ a crossbolt safety instead of the 500's tang safety, and it's not drilled & tapped for a scope mount.  My local chain sells it for $190.

Remington 870 Express is a steel receiver, crossbolt safety, built since the 50's.  Wingmasters are the pretty blued guns, those & the Police models have higher quality internals, but everything can be swapped out in the Express.  Express sells for $290 new, widely available used.  New ones have the Liberal anti-gun rotary lock in the crossbolt safety, which can be replaced.

500 is aluminum receiver, tang safety instead of 88's crossbolt, new ones tapped for scope mount.  Brand new ones have "Flex" stock removal, very easy to switch to PG, folding stock, AR collapsible, etc.  May run a bit higher than 870 Express.

My 870 20 ga didn't like Remington ammo, runs fine on Winchesters.  Go figure.  If any of the above have problems, they're easily resolved by replacing parts or sending back to manufacturer.  Both designs are more than 40 years old.

I've heard that newer remingtons are not very well built.
I have an old 870 express from early '90s. It feels robust and well built. IIRC the cheap winchester bulk ammo sticks in the chamber, people say that is because the express is the cheapest model and nothing is pollished (chamber). I'm not sure if mine still does that, haven't shot it in a long time. I like the wood stock and the looks in general of the 870.

I also own a mossberg and a maverick, both with the 20" barrel / 8rnd mag. They both have been flawless. Mossbergs have always looked and fealt cheap to me, but they work.

I have put literally thousands of rounds through the my 12ga Mossberg 500 since I got it new in 1991, and have never hesitated to recommend one to anyone that asked.  I also have 870 express in 20ga and 12ga and they have been reliable also.  My son has a Maverick 88 20ga, and while it hasn't seen the use that my 500 has it has also been a good gun.

I have both.  

I like them both.

I'd get either

Doesn't help much I know. But personally I don't think it matters all that much anymore.

I'd shop used and pick up whatever came my way

Remington hasn't used the safety locking system in years, so that's not an issue on a new gun.

One smart move is to hit the gun shops and hock shops and find a good used Remington Wingmaster.

The standard Express is also excellent with a few things to look for.
One is to not use cheap shells, especially discount house Winchester shells.  They tend to jam in the chamber.

Absolutely make sure to field strip the gun, including the magazine and clean before use.  Remington puts a sticky preservative coating on the guns that needs to be removed before use or the coating will get even stickier and cause problems.
What Remington recommends for the Police guns also work well on any shotgun.
Fully strip it, including the magazine and spray everything but the wood dripping wet with Rem-Oil or CLP Breakfree.  I prefer the CLP because it's a little thicker.
Allow to soak 20 minutes to dissolve and flush off the factory coating and allow the CLP to soak into the finish.
Clean the barrel and chamber.
Wipe off the excess and put it in service.

If the bore and especially chamber look rough, use a shotgun rod in a drill with some 0000 steel wool or fine Scotchbrite pad to polish them out.  This will pretty well eliminate any extraction issues.

To prevent the Express bead blasted blue finish from rusting, just keep a coat of CLP on it.  The CLP will soak into the rough finish and prevent rust.

If it makes you feel better replace the MIM extractor with a Wingmaster or Police milled extractor.

Remington now offers an Express with an 18 inch barrel and a six shot extended one-piece magazine tube.
This gives you the same capacity as a gun with an extension...BUT..... The gun cannot use standard 870 barrels unless you make up a special spacer to fit over the mag tube.
However, this also eliminates any potential problems with an extension.

Personally, I just prefer the forged steel receiver and heavy fabricated internal parts of the 870 over the cast aluminum receiver and stamped parts of the Mossberg.

Last post is 100% spot on.

Remove factory preservative

Let the gun soak in Rem Oil  ( I use G96)

Polish the chamber if needed.

The Mossberg is a good choice also, but I have found that with lots of use the 870's only get better.

Or you could buy a Mossberg 500/590, load it full of cheap Winchester shells, and blast away at anything you want to, without problems. That reads like a lot of work to put into a new gun before its first range trip.

It will probably be a little gritty when you first unbox it, but cycling and shooting it will smooth the gun out.... A little. Mossbergs aren't known for their silky actions, and mine is still a little clunky after 25 years and a million or so cycles of the action.


You won't wear either of them out in a hundred years, so choose whatever one tickles your fancy. I prefer the ambidextrous safety location and lighter receiver of my Mossberg, and I've never broken anything on it in a quarter of a century. I do lose the front bead sights every few years, so I retapped the screw hole to 6-48 for ease of finding replacements. Mossberg's bluing was also very thin and prone to rust when I bought mine, but Krylon or Cerakote can fix this. I just keep mine wiped down with oil or grease, but it has been Krylon'd before.

Both (870/500) are good guns. I have used Mossbergs in the Army that were not well maintained, but still functioned 100%. Likewise, I have two Remingtons--one of which is my bedside gun--and I am an 870 Armorer for my PD, but if I were going out to buy a pump gun today, I would likely opt for a Mossberg 500 (590A1 if you're not on a budget). Here's why...

1. Mossberg 500s are generally lower in price.
2. I prefer the tang position of the safety on Mossbergs as opposed to that of the Remingtons; easier (for me) to put the safety back ON and is truly ambidexterous witghout any mods.
3. Mossbergs have dual extractors. Redundancy is good in case one extractor breaks (although I haven't heard too of too many issues with Remington's one extractor).
4. The ejectors on Mossbergs aren't riveted into the receiver like on Remingtons, making replacement much easier if you ever need to.
5. The shell elevator/lifter on the Mossberg retracts out of the way when loading up the mag tube. Some have complained about the Remingtons "loading gate" shell lifter getting in the way, causing feeding problems and pinching fingers. I have not personally had this issue.
6. Aluminum receiver. Don't fret over this...AR-15s and Aircraft landing gear are also made of Aluminum.

That said, both guns are great if properly maintained. Itwill come down to personal preference. If it were me, I would save a buck and get the Mossberg 500...

If I had to do it all over again, I would get the 500 because i like the tang safety more than the cross bolt safety.

I also like Mossberg's slide release location over the Remington location.

It's personal preference............and I am a Remington Armorer.

I just have too many SBS Remington's to go back.

I would buy a 590 over a 500, as it is easier to clean the magazine tube.

Agreed with the above. The action/slide release is in a much better position (for me) on the Mossberg. That and the safety position make it much easier to manipulate without changing your firing grip...if you're right handed. I like my Remingtons and I don't see myself dumping them anytime soon, but if I needed a new pump gun or somebody asks my recommendation, I tend to lean M500/590A1.

I like them both about the same. Each has its good and bad points, but overall they both will function fine.

If you are a pistol grip kind of guy(Speedfeed, AR adapter, etc.), you may want to go Remington, as the tang safety on the Mossberg is virtually impossible to manipulate without removing your hand from a pistol grip

I walked into Bass Pro a year and a half or so ago with the intention of handling both side-by-side, to decide which I wanted for my SBS project.  They happened to have the 870 express on sale for $249, so I never even got around to picking up the Mossberg.  I've put a lot of shells through this thing, all cheap ammo (Royal and Estate 00 buck, mostly) without a single malfunction.  That's with the 12.5" barrel, though... never ran it with the stock barrel.  i love that little shotgun.

I'd buy a Chinese or Turkish knockoff before a modern 870 express or Mossberg 500.  The 870 is full of plastic and shoddy machining/finish.  The Mossberg 500 just feels like a chintsy kid's toy.

The other thing you can do is check the local gun stores/shows for used vintage shotguns.  Buy an old Remington, Winchester, or Ithaca in decent mechanical shape and chop the barrel to 18.25".

"The 870 is full of plastic"

That would be the magazine follower and the trigger group.  Everything else is strong fabricated internal parts.

People say they prefer the aluminum 870 trigger group over the plastic.
The "aluminum" group is made of compressed powdered aluminum, not forged or even cast.
The plastic guard actually has some significant advantages over the aluminum.
(True, without any real reason I still like the aluminum 870 unit).

I've had to cover my mouth to prevent laughing several times as I've listened to someone tell me all about the plastic 870 trigger guard, and I happen to look down and he's wearing a plastic Glock, S&W, or Springfield, made from the same type of plastic as the 870 trigger guard.

Thats what I wound up doing. After reading / watching many many great reviews on the Norinco / IAC Hawk 982, I ordered one today with a few other goodies for it (Remington 870 Magpul SGA stock / forend, Mesa Tactical 6 shot side saddle, S&J follower / wolf XP mag spring)............all for $350......not bad, not bad at all

Have a mossberg 500 since 2014 no issues ever in the 400-500 shells I've put through it.

Pretty sure it's a problem with Winchester. It doesn't cycle in my 870 police, my buddy's express tactical, another friend's 870 police (older, scattergun tech gun), and yet another guy's wingmaster. As far as I can tell the shell's aren't constructed well. One of those guys is an absolute encyclopedia of gun knowledge and he broke down how the metallurgy of the case, polymer, etc is messed up.

OP, an 870 express or a Mossberg 500 will do you fine. My brother uses an express as a duty gun with no failures and tons of rounds, a coworker has maybe 12k rounds through his with no problem. I've abused a few Mossberg 500s with high round counts and never had a problem. The 500 does feel cheaper IMHO, but that doesn't translate into a less reliable gun IMHO.

never had an issue with my mossy 500

H&R is discontinuing the Pardner, and while apparently it takes 870 furniture, it doesn't take 870 bbls w/o a custom shim.  For the same price as a Chinese gun you can get a Mossberg Maverick 88 & use nearly all the 500's aftermarket accessories.

I've got the Norinco/IAC Hawk and it needs work too, chamber is rough and shells stick, the action was really bad until I polished it up a little. They are using a plastic trigger group now instead of metal like they were, I was bummed when it showed up at my FFL. But for the price you can afford to work on it I guess. I'm also left eye dominant so I'm switching to a 590 when fun money allows.
 

I just picked up a 500 Flex at Wal-Mart for $250 (super clearance ).

I also have the 870

Depending how you want your set up is what platform you should choose .

If you want to leave it as a plain Jane set up either will be great

If you plan putting it as a pistol grip stock set up 870 wins.

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Not quite..........I was not asking in general, mossberg or remington. I asked SPECIFICALLY which 870's were good, as there are tons of negative reviews on the express models. I also asked if a plain jane 500 is reliable, because my 590 sucked.

Don't use Winchester shells on any gun.  Solves 50% of all shotgun problems.

870s and 500s are both equally reliable.  If you get the rare dud, its pretty bad luck but you can always send to the manufacturer or re-sell.  You asked what model of 870 would be good, but that really depends on your budget and preferences.  What features do you want?  Are you going to put on Magpul furniture?  Pistol grip?  Rifle Sights?

Honestly you're fine with anything in your budget.  Shotguns are simple beasts, that's why they're awesome.

A lot of people hate on Mossbergs because they "feel cheap" or "too much plastic."  Those people have never owned or shot Mossbergs.  The 500 is the AK of the shotgun world- toss it in a mud puddle, throw it down your driveway, it's still gonna run even if you treat it nasty.  It's not meant to be a sexy race car.

I vote Mossberg just on price, but if you care about brands just get any ol' 870 you can afford.

Also you can "fix" anything plastic on the Mossberg for about $100, I replaced the plastic safety/trigger group with the factory aluminum parts, and outside of a little filing for the safety actuator on the new trigger pack it was very easy. There was nothing wrong with the parts in it, but I wanted it to be like the one I had in the military.