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Posted: 5/7/2015 2:28:16 PM EDT
[#1]
If the price is right I'd buy it.
These guns are pretty well known for their reliability. As long as the previous owner didn't dick with the internals and the friction ring parts are set up correctly it's probably good to go. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 7:03:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Worked pretty good for these cats
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Posted: 5/7/2015 8:00:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I have a chance to buy a registered SBS Browning Auto-5 currently on a Form 3. The barrel has been cut to just an inch or so beyond the mag tube cap. The gun looks good with no visible damage to the receiver "hump" and with the operating system set up properly for heavy loads. The barrel was cut and the muzzle squared proper. The wood is sound. The Dealer won't make any guarantee as to the function of the gun. He has never fired it, received it from another dealer as part of a package deal and is just looking for a quick turnover . The gun has engraving which leads me to believe it was personal trust that "made" the SBS. It is offered at a decent price ($400) since my only additional cost is the stamp (no engraving, no work to be done to the barrel). Should I fo? I would fo...no, I would have fo'd and then asked the question 
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Posted: 5/7/2015 8:52:14 PM EDT
[#4]
I hope so. I got a F1 in for a model 11 with a 13" barrel. My understanding is the recoil operation makes it so the gun functions the same regardless of barrel length.
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Posted: 5/8/2015 7:08:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope so. I got a F1 in for a model 11 with a 13" barrel. My understanding is the recoil operation makes it so the gun functions the same regardless of barrel length. That is what I was thinking about  The shorter barrel = less mass. I have no idea how that will effect (if at all) the cycling of the gun.
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Posted: 5/8/2015 8:03:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is what I was thinking about The shorter barrel = less mass. I have no idea how that will effect (if at all) the cycling of the gun.Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I hope so. I got a F1 in for a model 11 with a 13" barrel. My understanding is the recoil operation makes it so the gun functions the same regardless of barrel length. That is what I was thinking about The shorter barrel = less mass. I have no idea how that will effect (if at all) the cycling of the gun.I'm at 60+ days on the wait, based on current trends I should have my form "soon". From the research I have done, it should work! http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_22/441446_Remington_Model_11_SBS__UPDATE_2_.html |
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Posted: 5/11/2015 9:21:15 AM EDT
[#7]
I saw a Model 11 at a gun show on Saturday for $350, but I didn't know enough about them to make an informed purchase. After having spent hours researching on the interwebs, I'm definitely going to buy one. Two reasons: 1. I like old guns, and 2. I'm going to use it as a match gun at our local Cowboy Action shoots (Pike class). I need it to hold 6 rounds in the tube, so I will need a 2-round extension, then I will cut the barrel to 18.25".
Please give me a crash course on these (i.e. what to look for, what to avoid, etc). What should I expect to pay for a shooter? Ideally, I can find a beater (appearance-wise) that still functions well. |
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Posted: 5/11/2015 10:56:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw a Model 11 at a gun show on Saturday for $350, but I didn't know enough about them to make an informed purchase. After having spent hours researching on the interwebs, I'm definitely going to buy one. Two reasons: 1. I like old guns, and 2. I'm going to use it as a match gun at our local Cowboy Action shoots (Pike class). I need it to hold 6 rounds in the tube, so I will need a 1-round extension, then I will cut the barrel to 18.25". Please give me a crash course on these (i.e. what to look for, what to avoid, etc). What should I expect to pay for a shooter? Ideally, I can find a beater (appearance-wise) that still functions well. On a Rem 11 Look for/at; Distortion or impact damage to the hump on the back of the receiver. This may indicate improper recoil system set-up. Peer through the charging knob slot with a flashlight and see if the felt buffer at the rear of the receiver is still present or is battered. Again, this may indicate an improper recoil spring/ring configuration. NOTE: The Browning A5 did not have a felt buffer. Check the recoil spring/ring configuration. It can be set-up for light or heavy loads. The important thing is are all the pieces there and set-up in some sort of proper configuration. Missing pieces in particular can indicate that the gun was abused. Look for buggered receiver screws. Not only are they ugly but can also indicate that somebody who didn't know what they were doing was messing around with the innards. Nothing inside the receiver was intended to be user serviceable and so JMB specified thinner than standard screw head slots to keep fools from messing with the gun. Unfortunately, fools can be very resourceful so it is not unusual to see buggered screw heads. Cracks, particularly in the forend can indicate abuse. Also, look for cracks on the buttstock where it is mated to the receiver and trigger group. The A5/m.11/520 is a robust and reliable design and should be good to go IF nobody has fucked with it. Unfortunately, the recoil system was often reassembled incorrectly (or parts left out) allowing the gun to still fire but being abusive to the gun over time. |
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Posted: 5/11/2015 11:34:04 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks for the great info.
Would any of the variations (Browning/Remy/Savage) be more suitable for my purpose, or are they pretty much all the same? I've read that the A5 is easier to load due to it's 2 piece lifter. How much should I expect to pay for each? According to a quick search on gunbroker, the Savage seems to be considerably cheaper than the others two. |
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Posted: 5/11/2015 2:42:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the great info. Would any of the variations (Browning/Remy/Savage) be more suitable for my purpose, or are they pretty much all the same? I've read that the A5 is easier to load due to it's 2 piece lifter. How much should I expect to pay for each? According to a quick search on gunbroker, the Savage seems to be considerably cheaper than the others two. "Brownings" always command more money simply because of the collector interest. Even dogs will command a slight premium. Remington model 11s go for considerably less and the Savage even less than the Remingtons though they seem harder to find. In my area I see Rem11s go for $200 to $400 depending on the condition and there can be a HUGE difference (condition-wise) in that range. Beater A5s seem to start at $400. I haven't seen a Savage sell lately. I know nothing of the difference in lifters. Both my A5 and m.11 load and shoot easy enough for me. I never had a problem with either that forced me to look into the lifter. For a project gun, I would go with whatever seems to be in the best mechanical condition for the price. Since you will be destroying any "collector" value, I wouldn't worry about the Brand. If you are trying to make an historic replica (like one of Clyde Barrow's "whippets") or a "prison guard" model, maybe do a little on-line research and look for the correct model made in about the same time period and go from there with the correct mods and finishes. Personally, I like the older (pre-WWII) guns. They seemed to be made more for serious business rather than "sporting" use. Here is a handy chart regarding the recoil system set-up; 
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Posted: 5/11/2015 2:48:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Personally, I have always wanted a "Rhodesian" model like this (not my pic)
I know where there is one for sale but the $2K price tag has turned me off. |
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Posted: 5/11/2015 3:32:56 PM EDT
[#12]
That looks really heavy!
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Posted: 5/11/2015 8:46:00 PM EDT
[#13]
This thread has me thinking I need a 14" version to round out the family..............
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Posted: 5/12/2015 9:29:59 AM EDT
[#14]
How big of a deal is a cracked forearm in a Model 11? I found one for sale, but the owner says that the forearm has the usual crack near the receiver but it doesn't prevent it from tightening.
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Posted: 5/12/2015 11:02:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How big of a deal is a cracked forearm in a Model 11? I found one for sale, but the owner says that the forearm has the usual crack near the receiver but it doesn't prevent it from tightening. It needs to be replaced before it gets worse and causes problems. Numrich has two options between $39 and $56. |
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Posted: 5/13/2015 9:25:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How big of a deal is a cracked forearm in a Model 11? I found one for sale, but the owner says that the forearm has the usual crack near the receiver but it doesn't prevent it from tightening. You often see a crack at the rear of the forend. Just because it is "usual" doesn't mean it does not indicate a problem. If the recoil system is set-up improperly, a cracked forend can be the first indicator of the problem. The abuse may or may not have continued after that. Check the gun over thoroughly for other signs of continued abusive recoil. Battering of the hump, crushed rivet holding what is left of the felt buffer, etc. If the only problem is the forend, you can replace that. FWIW- My Father has a Belgium A5 that was made in the 1950s. He has shot a metric shit ton out of that gun. Everything from heavy waterfowl loads to upland game hunting and thousands of rounds of Skeet. He has always set-up the recoil system properly for intended use and the forend on his gun has NO crack [:// Would I buy an m.11/A5 with a cracked forend? Maybe, but ONLY after I had inspected everything else for signs of abuse. A good indicator is the current set-up of the recoil system. If it is missing any parts (see the chart above) I would walk-away. Disclaimer- I am not a gunsmith nor an A5/m.11 "expert" in any way. As always-YMMV. |
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Posted: 5/13/2015 11:08:58 AM EDT
[#17]
I agree on the inspection part but I have seen a lot of wood damaged on these old guns due to not tightening the mag tube cap enough or to much and also oil soaking. To many people think the mag tube needs to be soaked with oil. The barrel headspaces off the forend so oil soaked wood and heavy recoil tends to tear up forends quickly. While having the buffer is a nice safeguard I personally don't think it's that big of a deal. My Remington auto loading shotgun was heavily used and abused before I got my hands on it. The buffer was gone and it showed no signs of damage to the receiver. I put in a new buffer and on last inspection with close to 1k rounds through it, it still looked almost brand new. The receivers on these old guns are pretty tough. i highly recommend replacing the action spring if you pick one up. It is often overlooked by most owners and tends to cause the majority of issues. As has already been said a thorough inspection is needed to ensure you don't buy a lemon.
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Posted: 5/20/2015 11:39:29 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 5/21/2015 7:30:55 AM EDT
[#19]
I found a Model 11 with a serial number that puts it around 1915! It has a cracked forend, but I just haven't ran across one that early before. I've been thinking about picking it up.
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Posted: 5/21/2015 7:44:35 AM EDT
[#20]
I picked up a 1925 model 11 in 12 ga few months ago.
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Posted: 5/21/2015 8:09:33 AM EDT
[#21]
Do the older models not say Remington Model 11 and the serial number on the left side of the receiver?
Edit: found out pre 1920's don't have the side label or date code on barrel. |
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Posted: 5/21/2015 12:31:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do the older models not say Remington Model 11 and the serial number on the left side of the receiver? Edit: found out pre 1920's don't have the side label or date code on barrel. The middle one in my picture is a Remington Autoloading Shotgun (RAS). They did not get the model 11 designation until 1911. Mine based off the serial number was made in 1906. Serial number is located on the bottom of the receiver by loading port and on the bottom of the barrel extension. |
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Posted: 5/23/2015 3:44:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The middle one in my picture is a Remington Autoloading Shotgun (RAS). They did not get the model 11 designation until 1911. Mine based off the serial number was made in 1906. Serial number is located on the bottom of the receiver by loading port and on the bottom of the barrel extension. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do the older models not say Remington Model 11 and the serial number on the left side of the receiver? Edit: found out pre 1920's don't have the side label or date code on barrel. The middle one in my picture is a Remington Autoloading Shotgun (RAS). They did not get the model 11 designation until 1911. Mine based off the serial number was made in 1906. Serial number is located on the bottom of the receiver by loading port and on the bottom of the barrel extension. Did you convert your RAS to use a Browning two-piece carrier? |
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Posted: 5/24/2015 10:11:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you convert your RAS to use a Browning two-piece carrier? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do the older models not say Remington Model 11 and the serial number on the left side of the receiver? Edit: found out pre 1920's don't have the side label or date code on barrel. The middle one in my picture is a Remington Autoloading Shotgun (RAS). They did not get the model 11 designation until 1911. Mine based off the serial number was made in 1906. Serial number is located on the bottom of the receiver by loading port and on the bottom of the barrel extension. Did you convert your RAS to use a Browning two-piece carrier? Yes. Probably one of the best mods you can do to these old guns. |
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Posted: 5/24/2015 7:42:00 PM EDT
[#25]
I agree.
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Posted: 5/25/2015 10:32:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Probably one of the best mods you can do to these old guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you convert your RAS to use a Browning two-piece carrier? Yes. Probably one of the best mods you can do to these old guns. This being the case, would it be better to pay the premium to buy a Browning (vs. upgrading a Rem 11)? |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 11:15:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Possibly---but the Brownings usually aren't cheap and only the newer ones are speed feed. Pre 1950 something Brownings use one piece lifters and would need to be converted also.
!2 ga lifter parts are fairly cheap and easy to install. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 12:37:29 PM EDT
[#28]
I usually buy new parts for the conversion. So it runs about $176 for everything and requires minor fitting on some guns. When I get them cheap the conversion is worth it to me. Cheap being under $200 for the gun. If I could find a nice browning with a two piece for the right price then that is the easiest route. Hard nowadays as they seem to command a premium. 10 years ago you couldn't give an old humpback away. Wish I had snatched up a bunch when they were cheap.
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Posted: 5/25/2015 4:19:22 PM EDT
[#29]
I just ordered the parts to convert my Model 11. I really don't like pushing the button to load it.
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Posted: 5/25/2015 6:04:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just ordered the parts to convert my Model 11. I really don't like pushing the button to load it. Its like a whole new gun when you're done.
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Posted: 5/25/2015 7:12:01 PM EDT
[#31]
I just bought a pre Model 11 dated 1905. I plan on turning it into a SBS.
What is this conversion y'all are talking about? |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 7:21:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just bought a pre Model 11 dated 1905. I plan on turning it into a SBS. http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e137/CoolBoyCV/pix510410957_zpscvspkrrn.jpg What is this conversion y'all are talking about? Browning 2 piece carrier assembly. It allows you to load the gun without having to press the button. The parts you need for a 12 gauge are Two piece carrier assembly B1111064 Carrier spring B1111107 Locking block latch B1111269 Locking block latch spring B1111277 |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 7:28:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Browning 2 piece carrier assembly. It allows you to load the gun without having to press the button. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just bought a pre Model 11 dated 1905. I plan on turning it into a SBS. http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e137/CoolBoyCV/pix510410957_zpscvspkrrn.jpg What is this conversion y'all are talking about? Browning 2 piece carrier assembly. It allows you to load the gun without having to press the button. For this conversion, its just two pieces right? A silver and black part? Also, would you suggest having the forcing cone lengthened and polished? |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 7:32:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For this conversion, its just two pieces right? A silver and black part? Also, would you suggest having the forcing cone lengthened and polished? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just bought a pre Model 11 dated 1905. I plan on turning it into a SBS. http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e137/CoolBoyCV/pix510410957_zpscvspkrrn.jpg What is this conversion y'all are talking about? Browning 2 piece carrier assembly. It allows you to load the gun without having to press the button. For this conversion, its just two pieces right? A silver and black part? Also, would you suggest having the forcing cone lengthened and polished? 4 parts, I listed them in my last post. Cost me about $156 shipped. I don't know about lengthening the forcing cone. I haven't got mine together yet but I did have it threaded for Rem chokes. My experience with short barrels is they at least need removable chokes to be useful. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 8:07:12 PM EDT
[#35]
You don't need the new carrier spring in the model 11.
Its too short. I just used the original. |
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Posted: 5/25/2015 8:11:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't need the new carrier spring in the model 11. Its too short. I just used the original. Good to know. Thanks. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 12:50:06 PM EDT
[#37]
I need to ask this question in order to determine if the 2 piece carrier is a must-have for my purpose. I haven't handled either the Browning or the Rem 11 yet, so I'm not 100% certain on how they operate.
On the Rem 11, what is the quickest way to reload one shot with the bolt locked back? Can you simply drop a round through the ejection port and hit the carrier release button to close the bolt? |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 3:50:43 PM EDT
[#38]
lgs has a model 11 in 16ga in the used rack. deciding if i should pick it up. i know nothing about these guns.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 4:13:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I need to ask this question in order to determine if the 2 piece carrier is a must-have for my purpose. I haven't handled either the Browning or the Rem 11 yet, so I'm not 100% certain on how they operate. On the Rem 11, what is the quickest way to reload one shot with the bolt locked back? Can you simply drop a round through the ejection port and hit the carrier release button to close the bolt? Yes. With the bolt locked back you can drop a shell in the ejection port and hit the button to close the bolt. However, when loading the magazine you have to push the button to allow the carrier to be depressed so you can insert shells. A two piece carrier solves this problem. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 4:17:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. With the bolt locked back you can drop a shell in the ejection port and hit the button to close the bolt. However, when loading the magazine you have to push the button to allow the carrier to be depressed so you can insert shells. A two piece carrier solves this problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I need to ask this question in order to determine if the 2 piece carrier is a must-have for my purpose. I haven't handled either the Browning or the Rem 11 yet, so I'm not 100% certain on how they operate. On the Rem 11, what is the quickest way to reload one shot with the bolt locked back? Can you simply drop a round through the ejection port and hit the carrier release button to close the bolt? Yes. With the bolt locked back you can drop a shell in the ejection port and hit the button to close the bolt. However, when loading the magazine you have to push the button to allow the carrier to be depressed so you can insert shells. A two piece carrier solves this problem. Thanks. I'm planning on using it at our local cowboy action shoots (we are adding a Pike category which allows pre-1915 equipment). As long as the mag holds 4 (the standard shotgun target count) and I can quickly load one in case of a miss, the two-piece carrier isn't a necessity; just a nice-to-have. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 4:19:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lgs has a model 11 in 16ga in the used rack. deciding if i should pick it up. i know nothing about these guns. Compare prices on GB. I got mine for a steal off there. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 6:07:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Be advised, the 16 ga carrier is usually a lot harder to find and install. 12 ga is practically drop in but 16ga required a lot of fitting.
That being said the 16s are an extremely handy, fast handling pkg. They are smaller and lighter than the 12s. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 9:05:14 PM EDT
[#43]
I've been thinking about picking up a spare Model 11 for parts just in case.
About to Eform my SBS soon! |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 12:17:57 AM EDT
[#44]
I have a 99!year old remington mod11 guard gun. Beautiful. I' was going to sell it but now..... Maybe not
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Posted: 5/31/2015 12:27:06 AM EDT
[#45]
I took my Model 11 completely apart today to clean it and prepare to convert it to a two piece carrier. It was a bit dirty and had some remnants of cosmoline inside but all the internals were in good shape and all the serialized parts matched. I should have the parts to convert it next week and I will get it back together.
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Posted: 5/31/2015 8:06:13 AM EDT
[#46]
My 20" Remington Model 11 has been very reliable with just about any load offered to it. It even functions with Rio Cheap buckshot with ease.
I also will adjust the recooil to light loads and it runs the Federal Bulk pack Walmart loads flawlessly - very reliable shotgun in my opinion. |
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Posted: 5/31/2015 10:48:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a 99!year old remington mod11 guard gun. Beautiful. I' was going to sell it but now..... Maybe not If you decide to sell it, let me know. |
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Posted: 6/1/2015 4:41:18 PM EDT
[#48]
This thread got my curiosity up about the same time I stumbled on a "find" Belgian Auto-5 that belonged to a friends grandpa. Grandpa passed, shotgun left in zippered case...for a long time I am guessing. When I inspected it the bluing was beautiful...where it wasnt rusted.
Looked like it was put away dry or not wiped down in a long time & moisture/humidity worked its magic as there was a lot of surface rust/pit splotches covering a lot of the receiver and barrel. Such a shame nobody wiped it down. Internals seemed much better and function check passed with no issues. I will check the recoil system out based on the info in this thread later tonight. I picked it up for a brother in law price and for what I plan for it (SBS) its a good enough platform to start the project (cept its a Belgian Browning and I will just about cry when the F1 comes in and I have to cut the barrel) |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 2:17:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Ok, no suprise I guess but I pulled the barrel and(cracked) buttstock to inspect and replace w/synthetic stocks from Midway and learned the auto 5 doesnt seem to have the same recoil system. Amidst the scroll work on the receiver it says magnum twelve and bbl says special steel 12ga 3" 30 so I'm guessing 3" mags are OK.
Really need to get it basted/parked/coated but seems a nightmare to detail strip. Any suggestions for an auto5 smith that can handle the refinish? What parts/springs should be upgraded/refreshed? Action is snappy but I haven't shot it yet either. |
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Posted: 6/2/2015 8:41:04 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, no suprise I guess but I pulled the barrel and(cracked) buttstock to inspect and replace w/synthetic stocks from Midway and learned the auto 5 doesnt seem to have the same recoil system. Amidst the scroll work on the receiver it says magnum twelve and bbl says special steel 12ga 3" 30 so I'm guessing 3" mags are OK. Really need to get it basted/parked/coated but seems a nightmare to detail strip. Any suggestions for an auto5 smith that can handle the refinish? What parts/springs should be upgraded/refreshed? Action is snappy but I haven't shot it yet either. Seems a shame to put synthetic stocks on an old Auto 5. What year does yours come out to? I googled wooden stocks for Browning Auto 5 and several options popped up. I don't know much about these shotguns either, but I plan on sending mine to Rose Action Sports to have them work on my Model 11. |
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