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Armor can be defeated many ways, and circumvention is a valid one, but it could be done just as easily with a .380 handgun. That doesn't mean it's better.
     

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Reliability - AR doesn't have much over most modern shotguns. You have magazines. While pump shotguns are typically reliable an AR is more so. I personally have some where around 10k rounds of Wolf no less through multiple AR's and have never had a malfunction. We aren't talking AK's here…
Maneuverability - M4 carbine is long. Shorten the barrel and you've lost significant short and long range ballistics. MYTH… see picture below
Ergos - toss up, I could argue shotgun easily. Could almost agree here depending on which shotgun we are talking about…
Follow up shot - AR. But what is your threat? There is a reason high brass is used even though it kicks and you don't get many. uhm, nobody can say that they can shoot a pump shotgun as fast as they can shoot an AR, even an autoloader shotgun with defense loads is slower then an AR
Capacity - no arguing here.
Terminal ballistics - it's a .22 vs multiple slugs yes, 1 oz slugs will do the job, and yes one will work just as well or more so then anything else. But to say .223/5.56 defense loads won't work shows little understanding of terminal ballistics
Recoil - if you can't deal with a shotgun that's unfortunate, honestly. Some may not want to when they don't have too, simple as that. Better options are available if they don't have to use a shotgun. Shotguns take more training to become proficient, not everyone is a 3gunner and anything greater then 2 3/4" is way too punishing on the shooter to manage in a close on shooting where multiple attackers nay be present. How much spread will you get at 21 feet…
Clearing - I guess AR but see reliability. yes, see reliability, short stroke an 870…
Reload - yea AR. Being able to put hundreds of rounds down range that quick is awesome, but that  doesn't always equal lethality. uhm, I don't think you understand what you just wrote…
Over penetration - is there anything better than shotgun? so you do realize that any effective load out of any gun will penetrate more then 12" and has potential to over penetrate. Buckshot will over penetrate, 9mm, 1oz slugs and even .223/5.56. The 5.56 may deflect and lose energy more so after penetration over the others, see terminal ballistics
Short range accuracy - onviously skill decides but I think all things equal shotgun no brainier. Give me a target and I'll hit it, all of it. foolish statement, again, how much spread are you getting at 21 feet and closer with defense load? I hope you are using flight control as well. You not hit all of it. You will hit in a tight pattern where you aimed it…
Accessories - light and sling, done. ok, I can't argue that one
Safe storage - what? again, no difference in this as well
Accurate long range - better than you think. Rifled 20 gauge semi auto. Good enough. now this is really dependent on the shotgun and load with slugs but only to the point that, yes, with the right load, sights and shotgun you may be able to a man sized target at 100 yards or so but no much else. To say that it even comes remotely close to any rifle is simply foolish
Body armor - anything high power and velocity. Straight physics here, but you can't cover everything. can't say much because I've never paid much attention to ballistics against armor…

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Hands down, you have won the stupid post of 2015 award

Holy crap, I've never seen so much derp before

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Could you shoot skeet with a .380 handgun?

Popping multiple opponents in the face in a fraction of a second is something some super awesome trick shooter could do with a handgun, maybe, but not you, and not me.

If you use a shotgun like a carbine, then it is inferior. Just like a carbine makes a terrible shotgun.

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Yes, because home defense is exactly like skeet shooting


This thread REALLY needs to be moved to gd

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Yeah you're right of course. I'm  just throwing up strawmen because I've never really liked AR's. Piston guns are ok but I've seen way too many DI guns choke on their own shit.

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Face it if it's 100yd Or more engagement  a jury is going to be listening very closely to your explanation  (raised by cross examination questioning of course) as to why you chose to fight rather than un-ass yourself. And the courts have a few iterations of the definition of murder. My father always told me that if I was not a member of a rifle company, and I was not so obligated to stay and fight that anything outside of shotgun range was a good indicator to break contact and move out in the opposite direction. This from a man who had actually been shot at from some range in conflict and by poachers in civilian life both while armed himself.

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Face it if it's 100yd Or more engagement  a jury is going to be listening very closely to your explanation  (raised by cross examination questioning of course) as to why you chose to fight rather than un-ass yourself. And the courts have a few iterations of the definition of murder. My father always told me that if I was not a member of a rifle company, and I was not so obligated to stay and fight that anything outside of shotgun range was a good indicator to break contact and move out in the opposite direction. This from a man who had actually been shot at from some range in conflict and by poachers in civilian life both while armed himself.

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A real life scenario where a shotgun fails at close range is a dog pack.  When you are on the ground and you have 2 dozen dogs moving near you, 4+1, even 7+1 does not give you a warm fuzzy about starting a fight you can't finish.  Even if your own dog is now in pieces.  You can't load another 7 rounds in the tube as fast as you can another 30 round mag.  You may not even need a second mag but you will run the shotgun empty in 2-3 seconds.  I would rather have a hi cap handgun and extra mags then a typical HD shotgun.

You can fabricate a shit ton of scenarios that prove your point, no matter what it is.  I have often used an 870 to best shooters using M4's, M2's, 1100's and others on steel, shooting against the clock.  I am more then comfortable with my shotgun skills and that is how I started life as a shooter.  The day I stepped in to that dog pack holding an 870, I also learned shotguns don't do it all.  I unassed myself from that situation and spent the entire winter, with a rifle, killing those dogs.

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A real life scenario where a shotgun fails at close range is a dog pack.  When you are on the ground and you have 2 dozen dogs moving near you, 4+1, even 7+1 does not give you a warm fuzzy about starting a fight you can't finish.  Even if your own dog is now in pieces.  You can't load another 7 rounds in the tube as fast as you can another 30 round mag.  You may not even need a second mag but you will run the shotgun empty in 2-3 seconds.  I would rather have a hi cap handgun and extra mags then a typical HD shotgun.

You can fabricate a shit ton of scenarios that prove your point, no matter what it is.  I have often used an 870 to best shooters using M4's, M2's, 1100's and others on steel, shooting against the clock.  I am more then comfortable with my shotgun skills and that is how I started life as a shooter.  The day I stepped in to that dog pack holding an 870, I also learned shotguns don't do it all.  I unassed myself from that situation and spent the entire winter, with a rifle, killing those dogs.

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No way. You're out of your mind if you think an AR is better against groups than a shot gun. I mean, this comment is so far out there it almost doesn't Merritt a response. Not to mention there are ways on making a shotgun hold more.



And all one needs is a properly running Saiga 12 with MD-20's and you will fear nothing but snipers.

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A real life scenario where a shotgun fails at close range is a dog pack.  When you are on the ground and you have 2 dozen dogs moving near you, 4+1, even 7+1 does not give you a warm fuzzy about starting a fight you can't finish.  Even if your own dog is now in pieces.  You can't load another 7 rounds in the tube as fast as you can another 30 round mag.  You may not even need a second mag but you will run the shotgun empty in 2-3 seconds.  I would rather have a hi cap handgun and extra mags then a typical HD shotgun.

You can fabricate a shit ton of scenarios that prove your point, no matter what it is.  I have often used an 870 to best shooters using M4's, M2's, 1100's and others on steel, shooting against the clock.  I am more then comfortable with my shotgun skills and that is how I started life as a shooter.  The day I stepped in to that dog pack holding an 870, I also learned shotguns don't do it all.  I unassed myself from that situation and spent the entire winter, with a rifle, killing those dogs.