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Posted: 4/22/2015 4:05:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition.
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Posted: 4/22/2015 4:40:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. If PGO shotguns have been DDs this entire time I wonder what will be done with the thousands upon thousands of Cruisers Mossberg has sold over the years. Because that would mean Mossberg, their distributors, local gun stores, and private citizens have been committing federal crimes for years by transferring this guns as "firearms". It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 4:50:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If PGO shotguns have been DDs this entire time I wonder what will be done with the thousands upon thousands of Cruisers Mossberg has sold over the years. Because that would mean Mossberg, their distributors, local gun stores, and private citizens have been committing federal crimes for years by transferring this guns as "firearms". It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. If PGO shotguns have been DDs this entire time I wonder what will be done with the thousands upon thousands of Cruisers Mossberg has sold over the years. Because that would mean Mossberg, their distributors, local gun stores, and private citizens have been committing federal crimes for years by transferring this guns as "firearms". It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. It will be interesting. I think their is a good possility we will see the law changed. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 9:36:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone have any luck sourcing 14" front end parts from another vendor? Mossberg can KMA after promising me the parts earlier this year and reneging based on a ridiculouis policy. (The police are civilians too  BTW Mossberg unless they work for the DoD)
I am NEVER hesitating when buying anything firearm related in the future. It would have been all of ~$350 to have Mossberg send me the parts I needed to put the 14" front end on my Cruiser. Now there is a SINGLE 14" barrel with bead sight on flea-bay for $329.99! Credit cards can be paid off forever but some things will not always be available. I know that vender. He has had that barrel way before now at that same price. He was the only place to buy the all metal trigger assembly when I needed one. $80 part cost $130 from him. So this is his normal markup. I wonder if Mossberg limits all the 14" front in parts or just the barrels? I was going to SBS a 590 I had by just buying the front end. Now they wont sell it to me even when I asked if an approved ATF form 1 could be provided. They really need to change their policy for the masses. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 12:11:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will be interesting. I think their is a good possility we will see the law changed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. If PGO shotguns have been DDs this entire time I wonder what will be done with the thousands upon thousands of Cruisers Mossberg has sold over the years. Because that would mean Mossberg, their distributors, local gun stores, and private citizens have been committing federal crimes for years by transferring this guns as "firearms". It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. It will be interesting. I think their is a good possility we will see the law changed. Is there a thread somewhere on this? |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 6:10:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there a thread somewhere on this? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. If PGO shotguns have been DDs this entire time I wonder what will be done with the thousands upon thousands of Cruisers Mossberg has sold over the years. Because that would mean Mossberg, their distributors, local gun stores, and private citizens have been committing federal crimes for years by transferring this guns as "firearms". It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. It will be interesting. I think their is a good possility we will see the law changed. Is there a thread somewhere on this? here |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:48:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. If PGO shotguns have been DDs this entire time I wonder what will be done with the thousands upon thousands of Cruisers Mossberg has sold over the years. Because that would mean Mossberg, their distributors, local gun stores, and private citizens have been committing federal crimes for years by transferring this guns as "firearms". It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. It will be interesting. I think their is a good possility we will see the law changed. Is there a thread somewhere on this? here Thank you. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 12:11:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. Cite it |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 4:46:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cite it Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. Cite it They aren't a SBS because they don't meet the legal definition of a shotgun: (d) Shotgun The term "shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell. As they are not intended to be fired from the shoulder (having never been built with a butt stock) they cannot be shotguns. People then looked at the AOW definition as these are pistol gripped smooth bore firearms. (e) Any other weapon The term "any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. As they are over 26" in length the ATF does not consider them to be capable of being concealed on the person, this eliminates them from requiring registration as an AOW. Most people quit there and thought something along the lines of "Oh good, we can make a non-nfa firearm that shoots shotgun shells, is over 26" in length and isn't designed to be fired from the shoulder." Even the ATF quit reading there in their letters they sent out OK'ing these firearms. But the NFA doesn't stop there, it also includes DD's. (f) Destructive device The term "destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term "destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The important clause for us is (2). Here we see that ANY weapon by WHATEVER name with a bore over .5" is automatically a DD unless it's a shotgun and the Secretary finds it "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes". The problem is these aren't "shotguns" - if they were they would be classified as Short Barrel Shotguns. Shotgun is defined in this very section of code as being designed/intended to be shoulder fired. Since they aren't shotguns the ATF (or more specifically the Secretary) has no legal authority to exempt them from the NFA. Furthermore - this applies to all factory built pistol grip shotguns. Barrel length doesn't matter, just bore diameter. After carefully reading US law I will not purchase a pistol grip only shotgun with a bore over .5". While people may think they are legal, the law has been clear for years that they are all DD's and require registration and tax payment. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 6:51:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's start with why a 14" pistol grip shotgun is not a Short Barrel Shotgun or an AOW. We must refer to 26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845 They aren't a SBS because they don't meet the legal definition of a shotgun: (d) Shotgun The term "shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell. As they are not intended to be fired from the shoulder (having never been built with a butt stock) they cannot be shotguns. People then looked at the AOW definition as these are pistol gripped smooth bore firearms. (e) Any other weapon The term "any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. As they are over 26" in length the ATF does not consider them to be capable of being concealed on the person, this eliminates them from requiring registration as an AOW. Most people quit there and thought something along the lines of "Oh good, we can make a non-nfa firearm that shoots shotgun shells, is over 26" in length and isn't designed to be fired from the shoulder." Even the ATF quit reading there in their letters they sent out OK'ing these firearms. But the NFA doesn't stop there, it also includes DD's. (f) Destructive device The term "destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term "destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The important clause for us is (2). Here we see that ANY weapon by WHATEVER name with a bore over .5" is automatically a DD unless it's a shotgun and the Secretary finds it "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes". The problem is these aren't "shotguns" - if they were they would be classified as Short Barrel Shotguns. Shotgun is defined in this very section of code as being designed/intended to be shoulder fired. Since they aren't shotguns the ATF (or more specifically the Secretary) has no legal authority to exempt them from the NFA. Furthermore - this applies to all factory built pistol grip shotguns. Barrel length doesn't matter, just bore diameter. After carefully reading US law I will not purchase a pistol grip only shotgun with a bore over .5". While people may think they are legal, the law has been clear for years that they are all DD's and require registration and tax payment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. Cite it They aren't a SBS because they don't meet the legal definition of a shotgun: (d) Shotgun The term "shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell. As they are not intended to be fired from the shoulder (having never been built with a butt stock) they cannot be shotguns. People then looked at the AOW definition as these are pistol gripped smooth bore firearms. (e) Any other weapon The term "any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. As they are over 26" in length the ATF does not consider them to be capable of being concealed on the person, this eliminates them from requiring registration as an AOW. Most people quit there and thought something along the lines of "Oh good, we can make a non-nfa firearm that shoots shotgun shells, is over 26" in length and isn't designed to be fired from the shoulder." Even the ATF quit reading there in their letters they sent out OK'ing these firearms. But the NFA doesn't stop there, it also includes DD's. (f) Destructive device The term "destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term "destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The important clause for us is (2). Here we see that ANY weapon by WHATEVER name with a bore over .5" is automatically a DD unless it's a shotgun and the Secretary finds it "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes". The problem is these aren't "shotguns" - if they were they would be classified as Short Barrel Shotguns. Shotgun is defined in this very section of code as being designed/intended to be shoulder fired. Since they aren't shotguns the ATF (or more specifically the Secretary) has no legal authority to exempt them from the NFA. Furthermore - this applies to all factory built pistol grip shotguns. Barrel length doesn't matter, just bore diameter. After carefully reading US law I will not purchase a pistol grip only shotgun with a bore over .5". While people may think they are legal, the law has been clear for years that they are all DD's and require registration and tax payment. Which is why the ATF must (like it or not) decide how to proceed with their screwup. They essentially gave the go ahead for factory pistol grips with both barrels over 18" many many years ago and recently the 14" as long as OAL was above 26". This is a problem that cannot be ignored. But ATF cannot change the law definitions and cannot simply declare they wont enforce the NFA on these firearms. But then again they could be declared "undocumented firearms" and offer a dream act or presidential executive order to allow them to stay in the country. Nah... |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 6:52:48 PM EDT
[#11]
If anything other than a shotgun with a bore over .5" is a DD, then what the hell is .700 NE double rifle and why can I legally buy one in any state?
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Posted: 4/25/2015 8:00:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If anything other than a shotgun with a bore over .5" is a DD, then what the hell is .700 NE double rifle and why can I legally buy one in any state? |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 8:08:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Thanks for the clarification!
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Posted: 4/27/2015 3:43:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Anyone know where I can find a 14" forend assembly? Got the barrel and mag tube, just need to chop down the foergrip.
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Posted: 5/12/2015 9:05:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's start with why a 14" pistol grip shotgun is not a Short Barrel Shotgun or an AOW. We must refer to 26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845 They aren't a SBS because they don't meet the legal definition of a shotgun: (d) Shotgun The term "shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell. As they are not intended to be fired from the shoulder (having never been built with a butt stock) they cannot be shotguns. People then looked at the AOW definition as these are pistol gripped smooth bore firearms. (e) Any other weapon The term "any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. As they are over 26" in length the ATF does not consider them to be capable of being concealed on the person, this eliminates them from requiring registration as an AOW. Most people quit there and thought something along the lines of "Oh good, we can make a non-nfa firearm that shoots shotgun shells, is over 26" in length and isn't designed to be fired from the shoulder." Even the ATF quit reading there in their letters they sent out OK'ing these firearms. But the NFA doesn't stop there, it also includes DD's. (f) Destructive device The term "destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes ; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term "destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The important clause for us is (2). Here we see that ANY weapon by WHATEVER name with a bore over .5" is automatically a DD unless it's a shotgun and the Secretary finds it "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes". The problem is these aren't "shotguns" - if they were they would be classified as Short Barrel Shotguns. Shotgun is defined in this very section of code as being designed/intended to be shoulder fired. Since they aren't shotguns the ATF (or more specifically the Secretary) has no legal authority to exempt them from the NFA. Furthermore - this applies to all factory built pistol grip shotguns. Barrel length doesn't matter, just bore diameter. After carefully reading US law I will not purchase a pistol grip only shotgun with a bore over .5". While people may think they are legal, the law has been clear for years that they are all DD's and require registration and tax payment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mossberg cut this off because PGO shotguns are DD's per federal law. People got excited about the non-AOW status of over 26" and forgot to read the DD definition. Cite it They aren't a SBS because they don't meet the legal definition of a shotgun: (d) Shotgun The term "shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell. As they are not intended to be fired from the shoulder (having never been built with a butt stock) they cannot be shotguns. People then looked at the AOW definition as these are pistol gripped smooth bore firearms. (e) Any other weapon The term "any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. As they are over 26" in length the ATF does not consider them to be capable of being concealed on the person, this eliminates them from requiring registration as an AOW. Most people quit there and thought something along the lines of "Oh good, we can make a non-nfa firearm that shoots shotgun shells, is over 26" in length and isn't designed to be fired from the shoulder." Even the ATF quit reading there in their letters they sent out OK'ing these firearms. But the NFA doesn't stop there, it also includes DD's. (f) Destructive device The term "destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes ; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term "destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The important clause for us is (2). Here we see that ANY weapon by WHATEVER name with a bore over .5" is automatically a DD unless it's a shotgun and the Secretary finds it "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes". The problem is these aren't "shotguns" - if they were they would be classified as Short Barrel Shotguns. Shotgun is defined in this very section of code as being designed/intended to be shoulder fired. Since they aren't shotguns the ATF (or more specifically the Secretary) has no legal authority to exempt them from the NFA. Furthermore - this applies to all factory built pistol grip shotguns. Barrel length doesn't matter, just bore diameter. After carefully reading US law I will not purchase a pistol grip only shotgun with a bore over .5". While people may think they are legal, the law has been clear for years that they are all DD's and require registration and tax payment. But since these non-shotgun, non-AOW weapons of an indeterminate name are firing shotgun shells, aren't they excluded from being DDs by the very clause that you highlighted? I have bolded what looks to be the relevant portion of that clause. |
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Posted: 5/12/2015 9:19:51 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But since these non-shotgun, non-AOW weapons of an indeterminate name are firing shotgun shells, aren't they excluded from being DDs by the very clause that you highlighted? I have bolded what looks to be the relevant portion of that clause. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: SNIP Let's start with why a 14" pistol grip shotgun is not a Short Barrel Shotgun or an AOW. We must refer to 26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845 They aren't a SBS because they don't meet the legal definition of a shotgun: (d) Shotgun The term "shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell. As they are not intended to be fired from the shoulder (having never been built with a butt stock) they cannot be shotguns. People then looked at the AOW definition as these are pistol gripped smooth bore firearms. (e) Any other weapon The term "any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. As they are over 26" in length the ATF does not consider them to be capable of being concealed on the person, this eliminates them from requiring registration as an AOW. Most people quit there and thought something along the lines of "Oh good, we can make a non-nfa firearm that shoots shotgun shells, is over 26" in length and isn't designed to be fired from the shoulder." Even the ATF quit reading there in their letters they sent out OK'ing these firearms. But the NFA doesn't stop there, it also includes DD's. (f) Destructive device The term "destructive device” means (1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (A) bomb, (B) grenade, (C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces, (D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (E) mine, or (F) similar device; (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes ; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term "destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The important clause for us is (2). Here we see that ANY weapon by WHATEVER name with a bore over .5" is automatically a DD unless it's a shotgun and the Secretary finds it "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes". The problem is these aren't "shotguns" - if they were they would be classified as Short Barrel Shotguns. Shotgun is defined in this very section of code as being designed/intended to be shoulder fired. Since they aren't shotguns the ATF (or more specifically the Secretary) has no legal authority to exempt them from the NFA. Furthermore - this applies to all factory built pistol grip shotguns. Barrel length doesn't matter, just bore diameter. After carefully reading US law I will not purchase a pistol grip only shotgun with a bore over .5". While people may think they are legal, the law has been clear for years that they are all DD's and require registration and tax payment. But since these non-shotgun, non-AOW weapons of an indeterminate name are firing shotgun shells, aren't they excluded from being DDs by the very clause that you highlighted? I have bolded what looks to be the relevant portion of that clause. No. Shotguns are exempted, shotgun shells are exempted. These are neither shotguns or shotgun shells. They do fire shotgun shells, but they are not shotguns shells. ETA: If they would have worded the clause differently - something along the lines of "any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or weapon utilizing a shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes" - then you would be reading it correctly. Unfortunately for us, that's not the text they used. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:35:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If anything other than a shotgun with a bore over .5" is a DD, then what the hell is .700 NE double rifle and why can I legally buy one in any state? There are exemptions to the general DD clause. The .577 NE, 600 NE, and .700 NE are all exempted. Unless there is a state law then they are all legal federally. |
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Posted: 5/23/2015 12:36:45 PM EDT
[#18]
So based on my experience this last week I thought I would share regarding the 14" barrel Mossburg 500.
I purchased two of them last week from Auger Precision. Link Upon receipt by my FFL he wanted to double check the legality before transfer and contacted the ATF. Initially the first agent on the phone said that based on the description they were NFA-AOW. My FFL explained the ATF Tech Branch Letter accompanying the shipment and its contents. The ATF agent then requested copies of the letter, photos, and measurements of the guns. About an hour after receiving the letter, photos, and length measurement (26 1/2") the ATF called back and said they were good to transfer as an "other firearm" and were not NFA. I finally took possession yesterday. 
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Posted: 5/23/2015 9:34:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So based on my experience this last week I thought I would share regarding the 14" barrel Mossburg 500. I purchased two of them last week from Auger Precision. Link Upon receipt by my FFL he wanted to double check the legality before transfer and contacted the ATF. Initially the first agent on the phone said that based on the description they were NFA-AOW. My FFL explained the ATF Tech Branch Letter accompanying the shipment and its contents. The ATF agent then requested copies of the letter, photos, and measurements of the guns. About an hour after receiving the letter, photos, and length measurement (26 1/2") the ATF called back and said they were good to transfer as an "other firearm" and were not NFA. I finally took possession yesterday. https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7794/17820445680_999e4d964e_c.jpg Well, these will go the way of the Sig brace soon. |
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Posted: 5/24/2015 2:17:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, these will go the way of the Sig brace soon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
-snip Well, these will go the way of the Sig brace soon. Correct me if I am wrong... but the way I read it there are only really two things that can happen. All "pistol grip shotguns" are reclassified as destructive devices which comes with some major problems with the sheer number of them already in the hands of law abiding citizens. Or the passage of some type of new legislation. |
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Posted: 6/3/2015 2:47:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So based on my experience this last week I thought I would share regarding the 14" barrel Mossburg 500. I purchased two of them last week from Auger Precision. Link Upon receipt by my FFL he wanted to double check the legality before transfer and contacted the ATF. Initially the first agent on the phone said that based on the description they were NFA-AOW. My FFL explained the ATF Tech Branch Letter accompanying the shipment and its contents. The ATF agent then requested copies of the letter, photos, and measurements of the guns. About an hour after receiving the letter, photos, and length measurement (26 1/2") the ATF called back and said they were good to transfer as an "other firearm" and were not NFA. I finally took possession yesterday. https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7794/17820445680_999e4d964e_c.jpg Those are two beautiful guns and it is sad that those are the last two I will build. Mossberg did officially pull the plug on 14" parts. I am a manufacturer and even I can no longer get the parts from them. I have considered buying 14" factory guns and having them removed from the registry and parting them out but the parts would end up costing a little more (retail wise) than I sell them for currently. And because these conversions are cost prohibitive to begin with I don't think there would be much demand. The ATF has been talking about this issue (the whole pistol grip = DD) since at least 2011 if not longer, but have yet to figure a solution. It is likely they will never address it. While I do have parts on hand to do a few more builds, I just haven't decided what to do with them yet. |
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Posted: 7/23/2015 6:38:59 PM EDT
[#22]
It almost seems like a person could get themselves in trouble for an NFA violation because of not having the right tax stamp.
Lets say I have a legal Short Barrel Shotgun, tax paid stamp and all that, I decide to take off the shoulder stock put a pistol grip only on it. It looks like I just converted it from an SBS to a Destructive Device. unless there is some kinda "once a shotgun, always a shotgun" ruling, this could be messy for some folks. |
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Posted: 7/23/2015 9:08:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Just like the Sig brace - guys for no other reason then boredom - keep bringing this stuff to the ATF's attention and then the laws are changed.
Just STFU! |
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Posted: 7/23/2015 9:55:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn that looks sexy. But why so many Mossbergs? Wouldn't an 870 be easier and cheaper because you don't need a $200 front end replacement? Mossberg has made a million + PGO shotshell firing firearms. Remington didn't offer one for several years , but now offers 4 or 5 models of PGO. The ones sold by CDNN are factory models, Google the model numbers, you dont want the longer mag tube, you want a tradition short 870 mag tub with a +2 extension. Mine was $400 + tax new from a local FFL. I couldnt find a better deal online after shipping and transfer. I bought a used vent rib barrel and chopped it down myself and made a +1 extension from a +2 I found for $5 at a pawnshop and added a Mesa adapter and Sig Brace. Shooting it wasn't as much fun as I had anticipated, I'll be going back to the birds heads grip. I kept the original factory box /label to verify it was a factory PGO and not a homebrew NFA weapon if the need ever arises. |
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Posted: 7/24/2015 2:11:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So based on my experience this last week I thought I would share regarding the 14" barrel Mossburg 500. I purchased two of them last week from Auger Precision. Link Upon receipt by my FFL he wanted to double check the legality before transfer and contacted the ATF. Initially the first agent on the phone said that based on the description they were NFA-AOW...... .......About an hour after receiving the letter, photos, and length measurement (26 1/2") the ATF called back and said they were good to transfer as an "other firearm" and were not NFA. I finally took possession yesterday. Did the FFL get shitty with you? I had an old Fudd who refused to transfer an AR15 pistol because he "heard" if you shoulder THE RECEIVER EXTENSION it's illegal. I shit you not. I would have been pissed he called the ATF without telling you first. Some Super-Gman could have made your life hell with their ignorance. It's clear they didn't know what they were talking about before their "study time" with the determination letter. |
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Posted: 7/24/2015 2:16:07 PM EDT
[#26]
What if you bought one and put a Sig brace on it.
NFA Armageddon! 
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Posted: 7/24/2015 3:49:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if you bought one and put a Sig brace on it.
NFA Armageddon! There would be a 47 page thread with three guys arguing about the legality of it. Then all three would write two letters each.....and ruin it for us. Just like the punk at school who reminded the teacher to assign our homework.... 
Some people need to get a pair and accept that there are LOOPHOLES in our laws we can QUIETLY exploit. The letter-writers ruinedf the Sig Brace for us because some guy thought that he needed to get HIS letter instead of making copies of the letter that covers the ATF's FIRST decision on the brace Fast forward to the last few years of non-NFA 14" firearms becoming popular. Mossberg gets cold feet selling 14" components and the speculation of all PGO shotguns being reclassified as Destructive Devices begins. I swear some people that have invested in the $200 Stamp game just don't want "us" (those who can't or don't want to go through the ATF B.S.) to have these NON-NFA loophole firearms. I'm just tired of dealing with Fudds and gun store commandos. |
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Posted: 7/24/2015 4:40:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did the FFL get shitty with you? I had an old Fudd who refused to transfer an AR15 pistol because he "heard" if you shoulder THE RECEIVER EXTENSION it's illegal. I shit you not. I would have been pissed he called the ATF without telling you first. Some Super-Gman could have made your life hell with their ignorance. It's clear they didn't know what they were talking about before their "study time" with the determination letter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So based on my experience this last week I thought I would share regarding the 14" barrel Mossburg 500. I purchased two of them last week from Auger Precision. Link Upon receipt by my FFL he wanted to double check the legality before transfer and contacted the ATF. Initially the first agent on the phone said that based on the description they were NFA-AOW...... .......About an hour after receiving the letter, photos, and length measurement (26 1/2") the ATF called back and said they were good to transfer as an "other firearm" and were not NFA. I finally took possession yesterday. Did the FFL get shitty with you? I had an old Fudd who refused to transfer an AR15 pistol because he "heard" if you shoulder THE RECEIVER EXTENSION it's illegal. I shit you not. I would have been pissed he called the ATF without telling you first. Some Super-Gman could have made your life hell with their ignorance. It's clear they didn't know what they were talking about before their "study time" with the determination letter. No. He didn't get shitty with me and I have purchased a lot of NFA stuff through him. I was a little irritated he contacted the ATF without talking to me first. But he was just doing his job and I understand that. I take the risk of having a "Super-Gman" making my life hell simply by participating in this hobby, AR's, AK's, NFA firearms, suppressors, etc. and posting on this forum. 
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Posted: 7/24/2015 5:24:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. He didn't get shitty with me and I have purchased a lot of NFA stuff through him. I was a little irritated he contacted the ATF without talking to me first. But he was just doing his job and I understand that. I take the risk of having a "Super-Gman" making my life hell simply by participating in this hobby, AR's, AK's, NFA firearms, suppressors, etc. and posting on this forum.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So based on my experience this last week I thought I would share regarding the 14" barrel Mossburg 500. I purchased two of them last week from Auger Precision. Link Upon receipt by my FFL he wanted to double check the legality before transfer and contacted the ATF. Initially the first agent on the phone said that based on the description they were NFA-AOW...... .......About an hour after receiving the letter, photos, and length measurement (26 1/2") the ATF called back and said they were good to transfer as an "other firearm" and were not NFA. I finally took possession yesterday. Did the FFL get shitty with you? I had an old Fudd who refused to transfer an AR15 pistol because he "heard" if you shoulder THE RECEIVER EXTENSION it's illegal. I shit you not. I would have been pissed he called the ATF without telling you first. Some Super-Gman could have made your life hell with their ignorance. It's clear they didn't know what they were talking about before their "study time" with the determination letter. No. He didn't get shitty with me and I have purchased a lot of NFA stuff through him. I was a little irritated he contacted the ATF without talking to me first. But he was just doing his job and I understand that. I take the risk of having a "Super-Gman" making my life hell simply by participating in this hobby, AR's, AK's, NFA firearms, suppressors, etc. and posting on this forum.
I like your style, dude. |
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Posted: 7/24/2015 9:55:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if you bought one and put a Sig brace on it.
NFA Armageddon! I actually did write a letter to ask if installing a Sig brace would rule out future use as an AOW. Never heard back. Put the Sig brace on it anyhow. |
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Posted: 8/4/2015 11:28:56 PM EDT
[#31]
So where do PGO shotguns that were sold but later had a folding stock put on them fall in all of this?
I have a couple of folding stocks for a 10/22 and a Winchester PGO that I bought back in the day and never installed. Hmmmmmmmm |
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Posted: 8/5/2015 7:25:35 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 8/6/2015 5:33:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistorySWEET!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 8/7/2015 2:12:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So where do PGO shotguns that were sold but later had a folding stock put on them fall in all of this? I have a couple of folding stocks for a 10/22 and a Winchester PGO that I bought back in the day and never installed. Hmmmmmmmm Once that stock is installed it becomes a shotgun. No longer a OTHER. PGO is not a shotgun, it's classified OTHER |
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Posted: 8/12/2015 5:03:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
snip I like your style, dude. Thank you... 
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Posted: 8/12/2015 11:28:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Thank you!
I love looking at it, it's just awesome! |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 2:10:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Does the slide assembly need to be replaced or modified to run the 14" barrel and tube? I've got the barrel and tube, but haven't had time to search for a fore end. I'm planning on doing my on a Just In Case Mossberg just because there will never be a question on whether or not it came out of the factory as a PGO firearm.
That's right FIREARM |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 4:01:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does the slide assembly need to be replaced or modified to run the 14" barrel and tube? I've got the barrel and tube, but haven't had time to search for a fore end. I'm planning on doing my on a Just In Case Mossberg just because there will never be a question on whether or not it came out of the factory as a PGO firearm. That's right FIREARM I believe the whole front end needs to be replaced. From what I understand, Mossberg no longer sells the 14" front ends, and used ones are bringing stupid money. |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 4:21:51 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe the whole front end needs to be replaced. From what I understand, Mossberg no longer sells the 14" front ends, and used ones are bringing stupid money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does the slide assembly need to be replaced or modified to run the 14" barrel and tube? I've got the barrel and tube, but haven't had time to search for a fore end. I'm planning on doing my on a Just In Case Mossberg just because there will never be a question on whether or not it came out of the factory as a PGO firearm. That's right FIREARM I believe the whole front end needs to be replaced. From what I understand, Mossberg no longer sells the 14" front ends, and used ones are bringing stupid money. I was hoping that wasn't the case. I scored a 14" Ghost ring sight barrel and matching 14" magazine tube. I'm about to sell it because I can't get a clear answer from Mossberg about the front end. They really can go pound sand. I'm not buying the PGO shotgun = DD. Looks like another project on hold..... |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 9:48:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and (3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term "destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes. The important clause for us is (2). Here we see that ANY weapon by WHATEVER name with a bore over .5" is automatically a DD unless it's a shotgun and the Secretary finds it "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes". The problem is these aren't "shotguns" - if they were they would be classified as Short Barrel Shotguns. Shotgun is defined in this very section of code as being designed/intended to be shoulder fired. Since they aren't shotguns the ATF (or more specifically the Secretary) has no legal authority to exempt them from the NFA. Furthermore - this applies to all factory built pistol grip shotguns. Barrel length doesn't matter, just bore diameter. After carefully reading US law I will not purchase a pistol grip only shotgun with a bore over .5". While people may think they are legal, the law has been clear for years that they are all DD's and require registration and tax payment. This seems perfectly clear to me. When I buy shells at the store they say "shotshell or shotgun shell" on the box. However I have read this part before and IMO it would mean that ANY "shotgun" used for home defense, LE, or even bear protection is a DD. Shotguns are only exempted if not likely to be used as a weapon. Pretty clear. Basically the same thing as the sig brace. Legal if not intended to be used as a stock. I know it'd be pretty hard to go after all the shotguns out there, even Joe Biden thinks useing a shotgun for home defense is fine. ETA: I'd really like to have one of these but I'd like to just buy one from the factory so it is documented as legal. I can't imagine ANY local LEO beleaving this is not a sawed off shotgun. I wunder why Mossberg isn't selling these them selves yet? |
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Posted: 8/27/2015 3:58:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Mossberg won't even sell 14" components to SOT holders anymore. I'm not a SOT holder, unfortunately, but this is what I was told by one. Mossberg could make a mint off selling these straight from the factory with a letter. However, your average, non-firearm enthusiast LEO would likely be ignorant of the legality of these 14" Firearms even if that was the case. This isn't an insult to LEO, but, they would likely default to arresting you to cover there own ass. I witnessed a range commando "officer" kick someone off the range for having an AR platform setup like Franklin Armory's XO-26. Dude built his from a virgin lower and had an overall length OVER 23". The idiot running the range wouldn't even read the ATF's letter that states such a build is not an AOW nor a pistol. You can read that letter HERE. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 4:16:46 PM EDT
[#42]
So for anyone who cares, the 14" Mossberg Barrel requires the 6 3/4" fore end.
The thread that discusses the Mossberg Forearms I found HERE . |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 7:38:54 PM EDT
[#43]
I'll take pitty on all of you and tell you how to get a 6 3/4" action bar set. Order part number 631-000-295WB from Brownells. You dont need to order a new nut or forend either. You can trim down your plastic forend to the correct length to match the 6 3/4" action bar and use the nut you already have. I think this partn number is matte blued instead of the parkerized Compact part but it should work just fine and most people will never notice.
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Posted: 9/14/2015 3:37:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Thank god Brazzers showed up to enlighten us on that.
I sold my 14" project locally to fund a Benelli purchase, but, I found a vendor who has Factory take-off 14" barrels HERE. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 6:50:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank god Brazzers showed up to enlighten us on that. I sold my 14" project locally to fund a Benelli purchase, but, I found a vendor who has Factory take-off 14" barrels HERE. Ordered. I'm going off this list: 13488 Tube Nut 500A/835 11239P M590/835 Mag Cap Parkerized 12410P Magtube M514 Parkerized 12392P Magazine Spring Retainer 590/835 Parkerized 12194 Spring, Magazine 835 12359 Forearm, M514 16033P Bbl Asm 514Bead Hvy/w Parkerized 12362P Action Slide Asm 500/514 Parkerized Brownells has everything except the magtube and the mag spring retainer. Does anyone know of a source for those? ETA: I have a stamp in hand and am converting an 18.5" 500 to SBS. Is the mag spring retainer the same and can it be reused? Also can the 500's magtube be cut down and re-used? |
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Posted: 9/16/2015 9:54:57 PM EDT
[#46]
The spring retainer can be reused but the mag tube is threaded on both end. Unless you can duplicate the threads you will need a shorter tube that is already threaded.
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Posted: 9/17/2015 12:54:14 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The spring retainer can be reused but the mag tube is threaded on both end. Unless you can duplicate the threads you will need a shorter tube that is already threaded. A decent machine shop should be able to cut threads on the one you have now wnd shorten it. You'll need the exact length of the original 14 inch mag tube though. |
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Posted: 9/17/2015 4:22:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A decent machine shop should be able to cut threads on the one you have now wnd shorten it. You'll need the exact length of the original 14 inch mag tube though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The spring retainer can be reused but the mag tube is threaded on both end. Unless you can duplicate the threads you will need a shorter tube that is already threaded. A decent machine shop should be able to cut threads on the one you have now wnd shorten it. You'll need the exact length of the original 14 inch mag tube though. As I said above, I sold my parts locally, but I will be seeing my buddy this weekend if you need an OAL length on the 14" magazine tube. PM me if you need any measurements. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 12:51:41 AM EDT
[#49]
I still have 5 or 6 sets of parts left. I just decided not to sell them because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with them. I had about 20 left a few months ago but slowly have been saying yes to people who were nice that wanted conversions.
I have considered buying factory AOW Mossberg 590s and just parting them out but I don't feel like there would be any profit in it (or demand). Are people still even wanting to build these guns? I was building 20-30 a month last yr but I thought the demand had tapered off. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 5:32:15 PM EDT
[#50]
I wasn't building the Non NFA but I was going to form 1 a 590 and swap the front end. Now I will probably be cutting the 18" barrel down to match the regular mag tube. It sucks that Mossberg did this. I even asked if they would sell me the kit with an approved form1 and they said no.
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