M4 benelli LE - Page 1

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Posted: 10/30/2014 11:06:12 PM EDT

My Cop buddy bought a LE M4 factory Benelli with 7rd tube and collapsable tube. It is all factory and imported. All he needed to purchase it was he ID no letterhead.
He wants to sell it and I like it. Would it be legal? would I have to 922 compliant it? any help would be nice thx.

Posted: 10/30/2014 11:37:42 PM EDT

[#1]

IIRC 922 only applies to "sporting arms" which of course NFA items are not. As to the fact that he bought it as LE your best bet is to ask in the NFA threads, not the Shotty forum.

Posted: 10/30/2014 11:50:50 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:
IIRC 922 only applies to "sporting arms" which of course NFA items are not. As to the fact that he bought it as LE your best bet is to ask in the NFA threads, not the Shotty forum.

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Well its not a SBS just has evil parts

Posted: 10/31/2014 12:06:47 AM EDT

[#3]

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Well its not a SBS just has evil parts

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Quoted:

Quoted:
IIRC 922 only applies to "sporting arms" which of course NFA items are not. As to the fact that he bought it as LE your best bet is to ask in the NFA threads, not the Shotty forum.

Well its not a SBS just has evil parts

Misread. Pretty sure that can't sell a LE purchased evil shotgun to another non-LE unless you apply 922 parts.

Posted: 10/31/2014 1:00:15 AM EDT

[#4]

922r does not make possession illegal, only assembly. Just make sure to never take it apart for cleaning and put it back together again until you get the US made parts.

Posted: 11/1/2014 11:45:15 AM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:
922r does not make possession illegal, only assembly. Just make sure to never take it apart for cleaning and put it back together again until you get the US made parts.

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Thats funny but-

loooking for solid info

Posted: 11/1/2014 2:39:41 PM EDT

[#6]

As long as it came from Benelli with the mag and stock, I don't see a problem. There is no issue with selling a LE firearm as long as it doesn't violate a State of local law. Benelli just requires that you are an active LE to purchase it. Glock used to do the same thing with there Blue label guns, but now just about anyone qualifies to purchase them.

Posted: 11/1/2014 4:02:14 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:

Thats funny but-

loooking for solid info

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Quoted:

Quoted:
922r does not make possession illegal, only assembly. Just make sure to never take it apart for cleaning and put it back together again until you get the US made parts.

Thats funny but-

loooking for solid info

Solid info is that 922r does not prohibit possession of a non-compliant firearm, only the assembly thereof:

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to--
(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

Nothing in 922r prohibits possession of such a weapon. From past communications with the ATF (letters available online), they consider taking such a weapon apart for cleaning and putting it back together again a violation of 922r, because at that point you have assembled the non-compliant weapon.

Those are facts. The following is speculation:

Why do you think the ATF has never gone after anyone for 922r alone? Do you think it's because they are kind and gentle souls? It's because they would have to prove that you assembled it, and that's quite difficult to do. They would have to either get you to admit it, or catch you in the act, or get you on video.

Posted: 11/1/2014 9:06:52 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

Solid info is that 922r does not prohibit possession of a non-compliant firearm, only the assembly thereof:

Nothing in 922r prohibits possession of such a weapon. From past communications with the ATF (letters available online), they consider taking such a weapon apart for cleaning and putting it back together again a violation of 922r, because at that point you have assembled the non-compliant weapon.

Those are facts. The following is speculation:

Why do you think the ATF has never gone after anyone for 922r alone? Do you think it's because they are kind and gentle souls? It's because they would have to prove that you assembled it, and that's quite difficult to do. They would have to either get you to admit it, or catch you in the act, or get you on video.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
922r does not make possession illegal, only assembly. Just make sure to never take it apart for cleaning and put it back together again until you get the US made parts.

Thats funny but-

loooking for solid info

Solid info is that 922r does not prohibit possession of a non-compliant firearm, only the assembly thereof:

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to--
(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

Nothing in 922r prohibits possession of such a weapon. From past communications with the ATF (letters available online), they consider taking such a weapon apart for cleaning and putting it back together again a violation of 922r, because at that point you have assembled the non-compliant weapon.

Those are facts. The following is speculation:

Why do you think the ATF has never gone after anyone for 922r alone? Do you think it's because they are kind and gentle souls? It's because they would have to prove that you assembled it, and that's quite difficult to do. They would have to either get you to admit it, or catch you in the act, or get you on video.

THX bro- I'm familiar with 922 from Ak's but wasnt clear on shotties

Posted: 11/1/2014 10:56:17 PM EDT

[#9]

While I don't have a good cite on hand, my understanding was that firearms imported for law enforcement sales are exempted from 922(r).

If the Benelli M4, as configured, is unsuitable for sporting purposes, then it must have been imported for LE sales and purchased under the authority of the police department (either as an individual officer purchase, or the officer bought it from the department at a later time).

18 U.S. Code § 922
(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—
(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

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18 U.S. Code § 925
(1) The provisions of this chapter, except for sections 922 (d)(9) and 922 (g)(9) and provisions relating to firearms subject to the prohibitions of section 922 (p), shall not apply with respect to the transportation, shipment, receipt, possession, or importation of any firearm or ammunition imported for, sold or shipped to, or issued for the use of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.
....
....
(d) The Attorney General shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition—
(3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; or

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While I hate to link to another board, there's an ATF letter here concerning reassembly after cleaning:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261731
Per that letter, disassembly/reassembly is ok as long as you're not replacing parts.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/925

YMMV and all, but I'd go for it. The Benelli M4 is an awesome shotgun.

Posted: 11/1/2014 11:45:40 PM EDT

[#10]

922r prohibits the action of assembly, not possessio, true. But firearms modified in violation of 922r are contraband and are subject to seizure even if the owner cannot be charged with a 922r violation.

Secondly, you are a lucky guy. The LE exemption from 922r applies both to agencies and to individual officers who bought weapons for duty use on department letterhead. If this is truly an M4 bought by a bonafide LE officer for duty use, then it is still exempt from 922r even after it is sold off as surplus to the civilian market. This M4 was not prohibited from importation as it was in reality imported for LE duty use, thus 922r doesn't apply here, either to the weapon or any subsequent owner of the weapon. This happens all the time as officers retire and no longer want their duty "tool".

In order to protect yourself and retain the value of a very valuable gun, you should get a copy of his original purchase request or at least a signed statement to the effect that it was a duty weapon purchased with personal funds. The 922r exemption is permanent and can be passed on to subsequent owners, which makes for a very valuable M4.

Posted: 11/2/2014 12:17:44 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
While I hate to link to another board, there's an ATF letter here concerning reassembly after cleaning:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261731
Per that letter, disassembly/reassembly is ok as long as you're not replacing parts.

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Oh nice! I'd previously seen a letter that stated they consider maintenance assembly, so you never know, but this helps.

Posted: 11/2/2014 12:33:47 AM EDT

[#12]

Also i got an email from a Benelli distributer-

Active military, LE can purchase with no letter head just ID. I also asked well what if you get out the military they said " its still yours and legal to have or sell" weird

Posted: 11/2/2014 12:44:20 AM EDT

[#13]

if it looks anything like this: BUY BUY BUY

Posted: 11/2/2014 2:03:28 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
Also i got an email from a Benelli distributer-

Active military, LE can purchase with no letter head just ID. I also asked well what if you get out the military they said " its still yours and legal to have or sell" weird

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I got a similar one from DSG...