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Posted: 4/14/2012 9:38:33 AM EST
I watched the youtube videos on wax slugs and have made a few hundred. They are fun to shoot and easy to make. Head my warning, DO NOT make them if you dont know what you are doing, like me! This shotgun started out as a maverick 88 that i bought in 07, now its a pile of parts. I shot 50 rounds throught it today and number 50 blew up. Im a few weeks away from deploying and could have possibly lost my arm if I hadnt been very lucky. A $20 tacstar side saddle shell carrier saved me from possibly rupturing my artery or possibly losing my left arm. This is my one warning and i will remember this for the rest of my life. Please dont make my mistake!

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Posted: 4/14/2012 9:40:03 AM EST
I will post pics of the side saddle tO show why i feel like it saved me when i get out of the ER.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 9:40:31 AM EST
Damn!

How were you making these wax slugs?
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Posted: 4/14/2012 9:44:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2012 9:53:26 AM EST by FDC]
Ouch.

At least the magazine cap survived.


Save up some deployment money to buy you a nice 590A1.




ETA: Had to educate myself....http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2011/07/09/wax-shotgun-slugs/ I think I'd rather just buy slugs.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 9:45:14 AM EST
Ooops!
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Posted: 4/14/2012 9:48:01 AM EST
Wax build up in barrel?
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Posted: 4/14/2012 9:51:04 AM EST
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Posted: 4/14/2012 10:07:52 AM EST
You basicly melt wax/crayons and put bb's in it and put it back in a birshot shell. No build up, Im going to chalk this up to shooting a wore out shotgun, oh and being an idiot of course.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 10:33:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2012 10:34:46 AM EST by fearme]
Wore out shotguns don't blow up in my experience... They may jam, misfire, or pattern poorly but blow up?

That had to be either a wickedly overloaded shell(or filled with unique or some other pistol powder) or the barrel was plugged solidly somehow and another round was fired.

Could there have been a squib round prior to your kaboom that lodged in the barrel? Were those handloads?

Very glad you didn't lose that hand/arm or an eye.


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Posted: 4/14/2012 11:13:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2012 11:29:58 AM EST by Aleko]
That's what I'm thinking, too. You can't wear a shotgun to the point of a failure like this, nor would a little wax build-up in the barrel cause this. I'll bet that your #49 was a squib, causing excessive pressure from your #50.

Glad you're [mostly] OK.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 11:16:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2012 11:22:30 AM EST by Gamma762]
That KB looks pretty nasty and glad you're not more seriously injured.

For one thing the added wax would add weight to the projectile load, which will increase pressure if used with the same powder charge. If you didn't get the same load of pellets back in, and added some pellets that would add to that effect. I'm also wondering about creating a projectile with too large of a diameter... if the forcing cone is trying to squeeze down that large mass very much it would tend to spike the chamber pressure quite a bit. There's a reason why rifled slugs are "rifled" and it has nothing to do with imparting spin.

They aren't effective as defensive/anti personnel loads when used with birdshot, you still need to use an adequate pellet size to get reasonable penetration. With that being the case, you're better off with something like the flite control buckshot loads which give you a little bit of pattern. If you need a slug, just shoot a slug.

I was just looking up some past threads regarding #1 buckshot loads last night and found a couple that might be informative:
http://ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=350475
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=1&t=209689
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Posted: 4/14/2012 11:19:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aleko:
That's what I'm thinking, too. You can't wear a shotgun to the point of a failure like this, not would a little wax build-up in the barrel cause this. I'll bet that your #49 was a squib, causing excessive pressure from your #50.

Glad you're [mostly] OK.

That's precisely what happened. OP - how did you re-crimp or otherwise secure your wax slug into the reloaded shell?

Did the sound or recoil of #49 feel light or 'off', or were you just going balls out shucking and yanking the trigger and did not notice?
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Posted: 4/14/2012 11:26:39 AM EST
Best wished for a speedy recovery. Thanks for posting your story.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 11:27:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gamma762:
That KB looks pretty nasty and glad you're not more seriously injured.

For one thing the added wax would add weight to the projectile load, which will increase pressure if used with the same powder charge. Not enough to push it into proof load range...besides, wax is squishy under pressure. I've done it with 2 part epoxy and had no ill effects. If you didn't get the same load of pellets back in, and added some pellets that would add to that effect. I'm also wondering about creating a projectile with too large of a diameter... if the forcing cone is trying to squeeze down that large mass very much it would tend to spike the chamber pressure quite a bit. There's a reason why rifled slugs are "rifled" and it has nothing to do with imparting spin. Lead flows like liquid under pressure. Rifling on slugs has nothing to do with keeping pressures down. It mostly has roots on marketing. Steel and tungsten shot put more stress on barrels and chokes than oversized lead slugs.

They aren't effective as defensive/anti personnel loads when used with birdshot, you still need to use an adequate pellet size to get reasonable penetration. I killed a midwestern whitetail doe with a paraffin slug. It was a spectacular and instant death. With that being the case, you're better off with something like the flite control buckshot loads which give you a little bit of pattern. If you need a slug, just shoot a slug.


Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

PLEASE, edit your posts to remove the your mother is a whore,etc comments
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Posted: 4/14/2012 11:28:40 AM EST
Did these rounds spend their entire life in a climate controlled environment? Ever leave any in your car?

Melted wax aint good for powder. Possibly you had a round fail to make it out of the barrel from the powder getting melted wax on it. Next shot = pressure buildup in the barrel = dead barrel.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 11:32:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2012 11:35:25 AM EST by SevenMaryThree]
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2011/06/reader-question-what-happens-if-you-lodge-20-gauge-shell-12-gauge-barrel

There's a video on this page that shows what happens to a barrel where the next charge meets an obstruction. I'm thinking OP"s obstruction never made it past the forcing cone.

Another obstruction video.


Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

PLEASE, edit your posts to remove the your mother is a whore,etc comments
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Posted: 4/14/2012 12:18:01 PM EST
Thinking the same thing. Look how all the damage radiates from the area by the front of the receiver. The receiver end of the magazine tube is flattened, indicating downward force right at that spot.

I'll stick to factory slugs.

Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:

Originally Posted By Aleko:
That's what I'm thinking, too. You can't wear a shotgun to the point of a failure like this, not would a little wax build-up in the barrel cause this. I'll bet that your #49 was a squib, causing excessive pressure from your #50.

Glad you're [mostly] OK.

That's precisely what happened. OP - how did you re-crimp or otherwise secure your wax slug into the reloaded shell?

Did the sound or recoil of #49 feel light or 'off', or were you just going balls out shucking and yanking the trigger and did not notice?


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Posted: 4/14/2012 12:48:40 PM EST
OP did you play with the powder?

I seriously doubt a correctly made wax slug did this. You do not replace all the lead shot, so it shouldn't be any heavier of a projectile. Also Wax slugs dont have much recoil compared to real slugs, so I doubt they are creating serious pressures.

Also was your shotgun a 3" chamber?
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Posted: 4/14/2012 12:54:35 PM EST
Bore obstruction.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 2:09:51 PM EST
Glad you are ok.

Cant say what caused your KB but I would guess a Squib/bore obstruction like other have posted.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 2:17:21 PM EST
holy shit.

i'm glad you are unharmed. that's one big f'ing kaboom there.

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Posted: 4/14/2012 4:26:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By geekz0r:
holy shit.

i'm glad you are unharmed. that's one big f'ing kaboom there.



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Posted: 4/14/2012 4:44:04 PM EST
No i didnt mess with the powder but i did take the wad out and replace it with a shorter one out of a different shell which sat in the shell further down. So my theory is that the added weight from the shorter wad and adding more bb's and wax. I dont remember actually seeing shot #49 on the paper and i dont remember how it sounded because i wear ear muffs and everyone else at the range was shooting. So its very likely the previous shell was stuck in the chamber. Also would me taking the wad out and the powder not being properly packed cause anything?

After looking at the remains im a believer in barrell shrouds, 4" of the barrell vaporized and luckily the shroud absorbed what would have shot up in my face. I shot this from my hip. Also looking at my northface fleece jacket the majority of damage i received was burn, my sleeve was melted.

Again this was 100% my fault. I dont question the integrity of maverick/mossberg but my next shotgun will be an 870 and i will never fire anything other than a factory load. Thank you everyone for your concerns. I guess its a good thing parents pray for they're kids because everything in the chain of events worked out in favor and i still have 10 fingers, 2 eyes and both my arms!

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Posted: 4/14/2012 5:08:37 PM EST
Wow... thanks for sharing.

Glad you're pretty much okay.

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Posted: 4/14/2012 5:38:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2012 5:41:09 PM EST by InfiniteGrim]
So let me gets this straight...

You took a cup that was larger and replaced the factory one, so in the end your wax slugs were heavier then the original shot in the birdshot? Was there a noticeable amount of recoil?

That will do it. I guess you are not a reloader because a reloader would know, the heavier the projectile the less powder it takes. So you significantly increased the weight of the projectile and kept the same amount of powder. Its also worth it to note that birdshot uses somewhat flimsy casings that are not meant for higher pressures.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 7:15:17 PM EST
Glad you are okay.
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Posted: 4/14/2012 7:34:14 PM EST
How were your shells crimped?

You can get away with a little component substitution with shotshells, but not knowing what you swapped doesn't help our armchair analysis.

Got pics of the different wads? Were you adding additional shot to each load beyond what they came from the factory with?
Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

PLEASE, edit your posts to remove the your mother is a whore,etc comments
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Posted: 4/14/2012 7:41:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2012 7:44:10 PM EST by fearme]
99% a blocked bore but I'd be curious what kind of pressures would result from having liquid paraffin present in the shell below the wad as the powder charge ignites.

Think of the heat generated by 49 12g rounds of anything. Now sit some bumpkin "wax slug" mixture in a scorching hot chamber for a few seconds. Some is going to liquify and get all over the f'ing place.

Paraffin contains a wee bit less energy than diesel fuel.

Doesn't sound like something anyone would want to test.... ever.

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Posted: 4/15/2012 12:40:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By fearme:
99% a blocked bore but I'd be curious what kind of pressures would result from having liquid paraffin present in the shell below the wad as the powder charge ignites.

Think of the heat generated by 49 12g rounds of anything. Now sit some bumpkin "wax slug" mixture in a scorching hot chamber for a few seconds. Some is going to liquify and get all over the f'ing place.

Paraffin contains a wee bit less energy than diesel fuel.

Doesn't sound like something anyone would want to test.... ever.



Wax/Diesel, etc burn hot but slow. Along those lines Im thinking melted wax getting to the powder could have caused #49 to squib..
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Posted: 4/15/2012 12:44:49 AM EST
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Posted: 4/15/2012 1:20:35 AM EST
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Posted: 4/15/2012 2:38:03 AM EST
Oh my.
I am happy you were not seriously injured.

Suggestion for your EE listing :

Maverick 88
Pistol grip, Tac Star side saddle currently dismounted, extremely well ventilated barrel.
Some assembly is required.

Includes 1/2 box of Crayola crayons w/box sharpener

ALL NFA RULES APPLY
$87.00

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Posted: 4/15/2012 3:07:45 AM EST
Damn...big kaboom.
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Posted: 4/15/2012 5:32:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By c_swizzle:
No i didnt mess with the powder but i did take the wad out and replace it with a shorter one out of a different shell which sat in the shell further down. So my theory is that the added weight from the shorter wad and adding more bb's and wax. I dont remember actually seeing shot #49 on the paper and i dont remember how it sounded because i wear ear muffs and everyone else at the range was shooting. So its very likely the previous shell was stuck in the chamber. Also would me taking the wad out and the powder not being properly packed cause anything?




Here is what most likely happened...you shot number 49 and the force of the primer was enough to move the shot charge out of the hull and into the forcing cone of the barrel. But it did not burn the powder because you half ass re-assembled these with some kind of half assed crimp which did not afford the proper resistance to ensure a complete burn. Sometimes, the weight of the ejecta can be enough resistance. But if you had a half assed crimp and were pumping and thrusting that "slug" might have inched it's way ahead of the powder a smidge, opening the window for an incomplete burn.

You were blasting away from the hip with a line full of other shooters and have very obviously never experienced a squib before. You have no idea if 49 came out of the barrel. I see it all the time on the shotgun range. Even old guys. They shoot, the gun softly goes "pufft" not bang, they miss, and then go on about getting ready for the next target. Someone has to say "Hey Hal...check your barrel."



Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

PLEASE, edit your posts to remove the your mother is a whore,etc comments
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Posted: 4/15/2012 6:23:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By c_swizzle:
I dont question the integrity of maverick/mossberg but my next shotgun will be an 870 ..............


Why? Remington paid $$ in a class action law suit for bursting barrels. I'm just saying...............
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Posted: 4/15/2012 7:04:11 AM EST
OP do you have pictures of the larger cups you used.

As it stands this thread is very disingenuous/misleading. You had me scared of the 100+ wax slugs I have, but what your OP should really read is: I blew up my shotgun because I took a light projectile out of the shell, changed the cup and put a heavier projectile in. You cannot tinker with ammo like you did, changin all kinds of components. Right now everyone who just reads the OP will think its because you made wax slugs and will blame the people making those youtube videos, when it was your own fault.
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Posted: 4/15/2012 7:58:20 AM EST
Thanks for sharing this humbling experience. Not many would. Glad you're ok!

Brownells > Barrel shroud > Add to cart...
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Posted: 4/15/2012 8:14:51 AM EST
Is it just me or does the steel in that ruptured barrel look odd? I have seen a few ruptured shotgun barrels and none looked that rough, looks like crappy steel to me
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Posted: 4/15/2012 10:12:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By CoyoteGray:
Originally Posted By fearme:
99% a blocked bore but I'd be curious what kind of pressures would result from having liquid paraffin present in the shell below the wad as the powder charge ignites.

Think of the heat generated by 49 12g rounds of anything. Now sit some bumpkin "wax slug" mixture in a scorching hot chamber for a few seconds. Some is going to liquify and get all over the f'ing place.

Paraffin contains a wee bit less energy than diesel fuel.

Doesn't sound like something anyone would want to test.... ever.



Wax/Diesel, etc burn hot but slow. Along those lines Im thinking melted wax getting to the powder could have caused #49 to squib..


They don't burn slow under pressure. In fact they explode. Enough power to shatter pistons and crack engine blocks if the timing is off. You could have the perfect storm with a large pressure spike already being created by the powder charge heaving the already heavier-than-spec load out. Toss in a little vaporized paraffin and you'd have a pretty effective little wee bomb.

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Posted: 4/15/2012 10:56:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Is it just me or does the steel in that ruptured barrel look odd? I have seen a few ruptured shotgun barrels and none looked that rough, looks like crappy steel to me


I would have to run some test to be sure, but the steel looks ok to me from the pictures posted. It appears to have suffered a brittle type fracture consistent with heat treated 4140 or similar type steel. The unique appearance to your eyes is probably due to the rather thick profile of the barrel were it failed. I would also conjecture some time passed before the picture was taken. Some rust seems to have developed on the surface.

It might have been overly brittle, but all barrel steel should look like that after failure. The only faults visible to the eye that might cause this are overly ductile material, voids in the steel, and fatigue fractures. I don't see any of these present.

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Posted: 4/15/2012 11:41:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By Doug86:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Is it just me or does the steel in that ruptured barrel look odd? I have seen a few ruptured shotgun barrels and none looked that rough, looks like crappy steel to me


I would have to run some test to be sure, but the steel looks ok to me from the pictures posted. It appears to have suffered a brittle type fracture consistent with heat treated 4140 or similar type steel. The unique appearance to your eyes is probably due to the rather thick profile of the barrel were it failed. I would also conjecture some time passed before the picture was taken. Some rust seems to have developed on the surface.

It might have been overly brittle, but all barrel steel should look like that after failure. The only faults visible to the eye that might cause this are overly ductile material, voids in the steel, and fatigue fractures. I don't see any of these present.



Looks like dirt to me. I wasn't there, but if I had to guess I'd say the pictures were taken on the same day.
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Posted: 4/15/2012 11:47:15 AM EST
Holy shit OP. Glad your ok. Good thing you didn't have a shoulder stock on it and have it explode next to your face.
The human body is the only machine that breaks down from lack of use
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Posted: 4/15/2012 11:54:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By MagnusM4:
Originally Posted By Doug86:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Is it just me or does the steel in that ruptured barrel look odd? I have seen a few ruptured shotgun barrels and none looked that rough, looks like crappy steel to me


I would have to run some test to be sure, but the steel looks ok to me from the pictures posted. It appears to have suffered a brittle type fracture consistent with heat treated 4140 or similar type steel. The unique appearance to your eyes is probably due to the rather thick profile of the barrel were it failed. I would also conjecture some time passed before the picture was taken. Some rust seems to have developed on the surface.

It might have been overly brittle, but all barrel steel should look like that after failure. The only faults visible to the eye that might cause this are overly ductile material, voids in the steel, and fatigue fractures. I don't see any of these present.



Looks like dirt to me. I wasn't there, but if I had to guess I'd say the pictures were taken on the same day.

I think your right about it being dirt. Never even noticed how red the dirt was in the first set of pictures.
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Posted: 4/15/2012 12:03:33 PM EST
Is it the same concept of reloading? If it over charge it will blow your gun up? coz' i saw a video in youtube making them and they don't measure it? by the way, have learn from your lesson. Thanks anyway.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:04:37 AM EST
First I am glad you are ok.

Now, before you do any more of this type of thing, I highly suggest you get a couple of reloading manuals and read them. The days of posting and watching you tube videos has become both good and bad for reloaders.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 9:31:17 AM EST
I've been meaning to try making these wax slugs myself, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying factory slugs. I have changed my mind.
Glad you're alright, good luck in your deployment, and thanks for sharing.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 9:42:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2012 9:43:12 AM EST by InfiniteGrim]
Originally Posted By PGNHAWK:
I've been meaning to try making these wax slugs myself, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying factory slugs. I have changed my mind.
Glad you're alright, good luck in your deployment, and thanks for sharing.


See that is what I'm talking about.


..........

Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
OP do you have pictures of the larger cups you used.

As it stands this thread is very disingenuous/misleading. You had me scared of the 100+ wax slugs I have, but what your OP should really read is: I blew up my shotgun because I took a light projectile out of the shell, changed the cup and put a heavier projectile in. You cannot tinker with ammo like you did, changin all kinds of components. Right now everyone who just reads the OP will think its because you made wax slugs and will blame the people making those youtube videos, when it was your own fault.


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Posted: 4/16/2012 9:46:33 AM EST
Yeah good that you'll be OK.

That looks like you mixed in a 20 gauge shot shell and sent a 12 right in on top.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 9:57:45 AM EST
Similar kaboom
The 2nd Amendment is not about rights. It is about CAPABILITY. It is about ensuring the capability to respond to violence, and oppression. Not with 1 round, or 10, but with the full force of indignant violence deserved at a breach of our peace.


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Posted: 4/16/2012 12:14:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By PGNHAWK:
I've been meaning to try making these wax slugs myself, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying factory slugs. I have changed my mind.
Glad you're alright, good luck in your deployment, and thanks for sharing.


Wax slugs are not dangerous if you don't switch out the wads like an idiot.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 1:41:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By MagnusM4:
Originally Posted By PGNHAWK:
I've been meaning to try making these wax slugs myself, it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying factory slugs. I have changed my mind.
Glad you're alright, good luck in your deployment, and thanks for sharing.


Wax slugs are not dangerous if you don't switch out the wads like an idiot.


As a kid with a copy of the anarchist's cookbook, I used to do some pretty stupid shit with shotguns and never, ever, never not once hurt a gun or myself.

Do you know what a fiberglass fishing arrow does to a car door at 850 fps? I do...
Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

PLEASE, edit your posts to remove the your mother is a whore,etc comments
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