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Zhukov
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Posted: 8/21/2011 4:52:57 PM
DocGKR has just posted about two new self-defense loads from Federal. One is a slug, the other a #1 buck (finally!) load.

Originally posted by DoCGKR:

Given Brenneke USA's recent QC issues and the unfortunate unavailability of true Rotweil Brennke loads in the U.S. currently, we have been looking for alternative slug loads that are capable of adequate penetration after first defeating intermediate barriers. We shot the new Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug load @ 1350 fps (http://www.federalpremium.com/produc...ug.aspx?id=902). It penetrated 24" of gel after first defeating an automobile windshield, with no deviation from trajectory and outstanding weight retention. The Federal Truball Deep Penetrator works as a potential Brenneke replacement. As a bonus, it is very accurate out to at least 100 yards.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-

Based on IWBA data, Don Hacklander from San Diego Police Supply and I have been discussing the potential of a properly designed #1 buckshot LE load for many years––with Don's help and the efforts of some folks at ATK, this has now finally been brought to fruition!

We shot the new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps "Flight Control" load (LE132-1B) yesterday out of a generic 18" 870P, including patterning from 5-35 yards, as well as a bare gel shot at 7 yards. In bare gel, all 15 of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrated in the 14-18 inch range.

This new Federal LE132-1B #1 buckshot load offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes.

It's great to see that they were able to convince Federal to product a #1 buck load that was advocated for so long. I haven't checked around for availability, so I don't know how/when they'll be available.
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/21/2011 4:55:09 PM
About time!

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Justin-Kase
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Posted: 8/21/2011 5:04:13 PM

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
About time!


What the b-o-t guy said.
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MattNificent
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Posted: 8/22/2011 1:57:47 PM
when is it going to be available?
FMD
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Posted: 8/22/2011 2:21:06 PM
[Last Edit: 8/22/2011 2:21:23 PM by FMD]
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
About time!

Hear hear!
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O_DubhGhaill
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Posted: 8/22/2011 3:32:55 PM
Originally Posted By MattNificent:
when is it going to be available?


This and where?
JeepinSoldier
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Posted: 8/22/2011 4:24:34 PM
What a teaser!

It sure will be interesting to know all the details. Low recoil or standard load? Glad Federal is returning to the #1 Buck load.
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Posted: 8/23/2011 2:31:57 PM
Just got off the phone with Hal at ATK and he advises that the load is not available in stores just yet, but is being manufactured. He will advise me when it becomes available. I will let you guys know and may be able to do some tests on the ammo.

Very good news indeed.

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Intune69
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Posted: 8/23/2011 2:37:17 PM
Great news! I believe that they will be quite delighted with the sales numbers.

#1 #1 #1 #1 Yea!
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Posted: 8/23/2011 10:53:44 PM
Why is this considered superior to 00?
Originally Posted By swingset
No one wants to eat right and exercise, and lower their stress levels, all of which will come in a lot more handy than a home defense carbine and chest rig

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Posted: 8/23/2011 11:10:39 PM
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Why is this considered superior to 00?


From http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#SHOTGUN AMMUNITION

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.

While #1 buck might be ideal IF the the shot is hardened, the reality is that these loads might be hard to find. If finding hardened #1 proves elusive, 00 buck is a great choice instead.




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Multi-G
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Posted: 8/23/2011 11:17:21 PM
While I will definitely check out the buck loadings, I am really interested in that slug load.

New shotgun ammo makes me happy.
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Posted: 8/24/2011 1:06:37 AM
[Last Edit: 8/24/2011 1:08:49 AM by ALASKANFIRE]
Thanks OP learn something new everyday.

Can you tell me how to calculate the cross section? I would like to compare some of the bigger payload buckshot rounds.

Considering over penetration is not a issue would a full 12 or 15 pellet load of 00 (or 8-10 of 000) be better???

ETA

He mentions hardened as if some loads are not. Are they listed as such?
Originally Posted By swingset
No one wants to eat right and exercise, and lower their stress levels, all of which will come in a lot more handy than a home defense carbine and chest rig

ANIMUS
Rude pricks need a serious traumatic life experie
Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/24/2011 9:16:10 AM
[Last Edit: 8/24/2011 9:17:02 AM by Old_Painless]
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Thanks OP learn something new everyday.


Me too.

Can you tell me how to calculate the cross section? I would like to compare some of the bigger payload buckshot rounds.


Take 1/2 of the diameter to equal radius (r). Then 3.1416 X r squared = area (frontal area of buckshot).

If there are more than one projectile, then mulitple the area times the number of buckshot.

Considering over penetration is not a issue would a full 12 or 15 pellet load of 00 (or 8-10 of 000) be better???


The only problem with "Magnum" loads (magnum in shotgun loads means more projectile weight, not more powder or velocity) is recoil. True magnum loads are big kickers and recovery time is increased.

ETA

He mentions hardened as if some loads are not. Are they listed as such?


Yes, they usually are marked as such, i.e. "Plated and hardened buckshot", or something like that. Hardened buckshot is harder to deform and as a result will retain its shape and usually penetrate deeper.

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Gamma762
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Posted: 8/28/2011 4:43:06 AM
I almost can't believe they actually did it, the #1 Buck Flight control load that is. I've talked to people from Federal at a couple of SHOT shows, once even talked to one of the shotshell ammo engineers, but I just didn't think they grasped why it would be desirable or that anyone would buy it.
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Posted: 8/28/2011 9:03:28 AM
Has anyone seen this for sale yet?
FMD
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Posted: 8/28/2011 10:52:26 AM
Won't be until January or thereabouts.
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gj047
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Posted: 8/28/2011 12:50:46 PM
Originally Posted By lovetohunt:
Has anyone seen this for sale yet?


I contacted one distributor who told me that one of the VP's told him this load doesn't exist. I will be on the hunt for this loading as well and I will advise when I have success.
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Posted: 9/7/2011 11:17:36 PM
I look forward to trying out these #1 buck reduced recoil loads once they become available. Delivering 15 .30 cal pellets @1100 fps and with tight patterns should make this the perfect load for serious business at home defense distances.
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Posted: 9/8/2011 12:01:45 PM
I have a fair amount of #1 buck that is getting old. A tighter pattering load can’t be a bad thing.
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Posted: 9/21/2011 9:02:44 AM
Have there been any updates about retail availability?

Really looking forward to trying out this load. Prior to switching to a Flite Control wad, my Benellis were only minute of barn door accurate with any kind of buckshot. Federal #LE132 changed all that With the right load and some formal training under my belt, the Benellis went from fun range toys to serious defensive weapons.

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Posted: 9/21/2011 10:54:12 AM
My contacts are a no go so far. Federal reps continue to tell them they have no idea what they are talking about. MIght have to wait until next year.
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Posted: 9/25/2011 10:15:14 AM
[Last Edit: 9/25/2011 10:17:19 AM by dbrowne1]


I've always liked the wound profile of #1 buck and have a bunch of it, but the 8 pellet LE133 OO buck flite control load does so nicely that it's hard not to use it. Sounds like this may be the perfect solution.
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