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Posted: 1/19/2009 1:26:20 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT 1) are the afore mentioned failures something to worry about? Or is it just part of the break-in process? 2) I hate the trigger, it gives me a blister after only a few hundred rounds. I use my pistols for matches and practice, I need something I can shoot a lot. I guess I'll just have to develope calouses. I have heard that the trigger and hammer parts are identicle to Witness parts. Can I convert to SA only using a Witness SA only trigger? Thank you, I do like the pistol. |
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Posted: 1/19/2009 2:18:15 PM
I have put about 400 rnds through mine. Most of it has 124 gr RUAG ball and I have had no failures until I tried some 115 gr S&B and I had a stovepipe and one fail to feed.
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Posted: 1/19/2009 8:02:03 PM
Thank you 22ivan, the 115's I used were CCI Blazer Brass. The 124's were my own, I have been reloading for 13 years so they are quite good. My CZ loves them. I am hoping that Armalite will answer or comment since the recording on the phone said this was the forum to ask questions.
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Posted: 1/21/2009 8:03:32 PM
When I first got my AR 14, I notice that several times the empty cartridge did not eject - when it was the last round in the magazine. Is that what you are seeing. Someone here pointed out to me that the manual says that will will happend occasionally - that's part of the CZ 75 design. The next round in the magazine helps pop out the round being ejected. When it's the last round, there is no next round.
Don't know about the blister issue. I had that with my previous handgun, an SA revolver. I must have larned some different way to stroke the trigger or something, because it went away, and I haven't had it with any weapon since. Of course, I don't know how often I shoot more than a couple of hundred rounds in a session. I usually shoot over lunch. Convenient, but I don't get in any long sessions. Mike |
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Posted: 1/25/2009 11:53:13 AM
Most stovepipe issues are ammo related. There's such a wide variety of ammo out there that it's a real pain. It's not uncommon for a round that works in one handgun to have troubles in another, especially handloads.
The AR-24 was designed for the hotter NATO ammo, so I suspect that heavier bullets well work better for you. As to roughness of the trigger, I suspect that's the epoxy/phosphate finish of the trigger. It'll smooth out, or you can smooth it out gently with fine steel wool. We've never heard this complaint, so you might want to look at the trigger to see if there's something odd about it like a machinging burr. Good luck. |
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Posted: 1/25/2009 8:14:44 PM
I agree that the AR 24 prefers the hotter ammo- in addition to the RUAG military ball ammo, mine seems to like the Fiocchi 124gr which is also pretty hot. As I have said earlier I have only had failures with the 115gr S & B.
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Posted: 1/26/2009 12:43:05 AM
+1 on the hot ammo.
Handloads for 124 gr FMJ 9mm: 4.1 gr of Tite-group: 99% good. 4.4 gr: all good. Mine doesn't like WWB sometimes, but eats everything else without complaint. Depending on the series, some had recoil springs that were on the heavy end. and sometimes de-horning the hammer (see some of the older threads here) will smooth out the recoil. If you're happy with it but want it tricked out, the people I point everyone to is Hennings' Guns - they specialize in CZ actions, and are pretty up to date on the AR-24 too. Not sure what to tell you on the trigger. Mine was pretty nice from day one, and now is really smooth. DA triggers all suck to varying degrees, but you obviously don't need to decock it if you don't want to. |
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Posted: 1/26/2009 9:05:59 AM
OK, so it look like the AR24 likes slightly hotter ammo than the standard pressure stuff. My ammo, velocity wise measures out right with standard pressure Fed. hydra shok 124. I do like the pistol and I will work with it. But, had I known it was such a fussy eater I would have moved on to something else. I am also a little confused Armalite, one of your techs did email me, he told me NOT to use +p or +p+ ammo, now you tell me it needs , and was made for, NATO spec ammo. It is my understanding that NATO spec ammo is hotter stuff, right up there with +p stuff. So which is it?
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Posted: 1/26/2009 1:48:26 PM
Originally Posted By 19852:
OK, so it look like the AR24 likes slightly hotter ammo than the standard pressure stuff. My ammo, velocity wise measures out right with standard pressure Fed. hydra shok 124. I do like the pistol and I will work with it. But, had I known it was such a fussy eater I would have moved on to something else. I am also a little confused Armalite, one of your techs did email me, he told me NOT to use +p or +p+ ammo, now you tell me it needs , and was made for, NATO spec ammo. It is my understanding that NATO spec ammo is hotter stuff, right up there with +p stuff. So which is it? I think you're running into the problem we all have with Armalite. There are some there who know this pistol, but not many. The pistol is a beautified version of the Turkish Army issue pistol (called the Sarsilmaz Kilinc, meaning "sword"), with a better trigger and barrel fitted. If anything, they're very, very durable, and are well regarded by their main user base. As a European pistol, it's made to use CIP standard ammo, not SAAMI spec, which for 9mm, feels a lot hotter. In the USA is sold by Fiocchi and (some) Magtech. Fiocchi is fun to shoot anyways - the fireball is impressive. Speer Lawman ball ammo is also pretty hot, and shoots great. I tend to go through a list when troubleshooting a pistol of this type (EAA, CZ, etc.): 1. Lubrication. Run it wet - real wet, and see what happens. I grease my rails with light bearing grease. The barrel with Hoppe's Gun Oil or Militec-1. Lube the area on the back of the slide, just below the firing pin with a light coat of grease. Once past 500 rounds, you can reduce the lube used. All-steel pistols need more lube than we have gotten used to in the Glock world. 2. Dry fire the to break in the trigger. It helps. Officially, a snap cap is not needed, but I use one anyways. The DA trigger pull will get better, or your fingers will get stronger, probably both. 3. When working the slide, check where you get the most resistance. If it's at the beginning, it's the hammer spring. If it's as the barrel cams down, it's the lock-up ridges on top of the barrel and slide that need lube and/or cleaning, and the back barrel where it contacts the slide. If it's nearer the end, it's the recoil spring. ALL SPRINGS WILL BREAK IN IN TIME. If you don't want to wait, order the small frame EAA Witness or CZ spring set from Wolff, and move to a lighter spring during break-in. You could also store your pistol assembled with the slide locked back to compress the springs a little. Like most, I had no trouble during break-in at all, and the only thing my AR-24 still dislikes once in a while is Winchester white box, but I have not tried Blazer aluminum-case ammo, which all CZ variants are known to detest. Mine even likes Wolf ammo. |
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Posted: 1/26/2009 2:07:00 PM
[Last Edit: 1/26/2009 2:08:04 PM by 19852]
homeyclaus,
Thanks for information. This has been frustrating. I see the good points in the pistol, it is easy to shoot well, almost as easy as my tuned CZ 75. at 2/3 the cost. Armalite has agreed to send me a UPS tag to return the pistol. I need to be able trust this gun or it is gone. I'll give them the chance. I did think of using a lighter recoil spring, but I have not done this yet, springs on order. I keep it well lubed, I have many years competiting with my CZ. Just not used to a fussy gun, it needs to work with standard pressure 124-115 ball. The Blazer I used was Blazer brass. I just don't have the time or money to find special ammo for my special gun. |
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Posted: 1/26/2009 2:42:36 PM
Originally Posted By 19852:
homeyclaus, Thanks for information. This has been frustrating. I see the good points in the pistol, it is easy to shoot well, almost as easy as my tuned CZ 75. at 2/3 the cost. Armalite has agreed to send me a UPS tag to return the pistol. I need to be able trust this gun or it is gone. I'll give them the chance. I did think of using a lighter recoil spring, but I have not done this yet, springs on order. I keep it well lubed, I have many years competiting with my CZ. Just not used to a fussy gun, it needs to work with standard pressure 124-115 ball. The Blazer I used was Blazer brass. I just don't have the time or money to find special ammo for my special gun. Agreed there, and I would have dumped mine if I had considered it fussy too. An AR-24 isn't a "tuned pistol," and I run mine bone-stock in IDPA and 3 gun a couple of times per month, with the only failure being a FTF series due to mud in the magazine, and one stovepipe from a short charge I knew about. Where I think people, and Armalite too, go wrong is expecting a military service pistol work with the relatively light loads so common here, without a break in period. All weapons systems have their particular quirks. It's milled steel, parkerized and epoxy coated. No matter what one does, it will need some time for the surfaces to get used to sliding over one another, and this is where CZ and EAA (and Glock) have advantages, since they don't protect their surfaces the same way. Add some of the shortcuts taken to meet the price point, and there you go. Compare the firing pin cover to slide bottom transition with a CZ, since you have one, and the difference should immediately be clear. The flip side is that my AR-24 is just shinier black on the edges than when it was new, although the insides look like they have been sand blasted (and they were, in a way, since I fell into dusty gravel with the thing in condition 3, didn't disqualify, and kept shooting). Maybe that's why I had almost no problems; custom fitters use a very fine abrasive to fit slide and frame together... |
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Posted: 1/27/2009 8:36:36 AM
honeyclaus
What kind of holster are you using. I have been using a FOBUS one I found for IDPA and not real happy with it. It works and all, just think that there should be something better. The gun itself ran like a champ, very pleased with it. Thanks Tim S. |
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Posted: 1/27/2009 2:18:04 PM
Originally Posted By tgsnellg75:
honeyclaus What kind of holster are you using. I have been using a FOBUS one I found for IDPA and not real happy with it. It works and all, just think that there should be something better. The gun itself ran like a champ, very pleased with it. Thanks Tim S. Nice typo ...
I normally use a Bianchi Accumold, size 15A. It's actually for a Ruger P89, but fits CZs 1911s, Glocks, and oddly enough, a PPK. It's the only one in the series that covers the trigger guard to the point I am comfortable. For 3 gun I generally run a Safariland 6004 SLS drop leg for a CZ-75, which fits great. I'd love to see the Fobus one for the AR-24, but have not gotten around to ordering one. |
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