I am continuing a 1911 collection and want to add Wilson, Ed Brown, Springfield, Dan Wesson, and Les Baer over the next two years.

My next stop is choosing between the two in the title. Which would you make your next purchase? I have never even touched a Les Baer but hear good things.

I don't see how you could go wrong with a Baer or Wilson or brown.

The Wesson and Springer offerings are good too, just not as much hand fitting.   The Baer finishes are not their high point tho.  I have a Baer P2 and it's a great gun with a mediocre blue....my 25 year old Baer 4.25" gun has a killer blue job.

I have 2 Baers and a Wilson, Baers are very fine and well made guns but the Wilson is the cats ass. Baers are workhorses, they are great to take out and pound some ammo.

My Baer Utc has close to 8k rds and has never had a malfunction. Most accurate gun I've ever shot. Feels like one solid piece of metal.
Lots of holster wear the blueing is thin!
   My next 1911 will be a Roberts defense. No mim parts. All hand fit and from the one I got to handle top notch fit and finish.

IMHO, the Dan Wesson Specialist would be my choice hands down, it is THE best value in
a semi-custom single stack 1911 design with a choice of .45 ACP or 9mm Luger calibers...

I also like the fact that everything is hand fitted and built in house (frames and slides) and
machined from solid billet on high end CNC machining centers...

Although, you can't go wrong with Wilson or Les Baer by any means, but your are paying
more for the privilege but are not getting more as far as quality or value...

Good luck.

I would go with the Dan Wesson. I have a Valor, and from everything I have touched/fondled/fired, LB, Nighthawk, Brown, the Dan Wesson is the best bang for your buck. They are certainly hand fitted as they are semi custom, leaning custom, as much as LB or Brown. Brown just has more fru-fru and nicer details in cosmetics, but as far as a working gun, DW all the way. I'd be scared to scratch a LB.

One is a production gun, and one is semi custom. The Baer is a better bang for your buck IMHO and will have more hand fitting done. Not to mention they still hand checker their front straps.

Nothing wrong with the Wesson, but I do not consider them in the same league as semi custom 1911s.

Sounds awesome. I'd like to see a picture if you've got one.

I have a Valor and a UTC. I prefer the Valor. let me say that I do love both.
Baer has a funky frame size that feels like shit in my hand. His 30lpi checkering may as well be a smooth front strap. The Valor's 25lpi makes the UTC its bitch. My Valor's trigger puts the Baer's to shame.(the Baer's is good but the Valor is just that much better)
That said, the Baer is fitted a lot tighter than the Valor and for me, is a little more accurate but that may be because I don't care for the straight 8 sights on the Valor.

You really can't go wrong with either.

Here are some retail prices from LBC, Ed Brown, and Wilson for their entry level 1911 pistols (Full Size/5" Bbl.) ...vs. the Dan Wesson Specialist:


Dan Wesson Specialist (your choice of 9mm or 45 ACP) - MSRP $1,701 ---Street/Internet price around $1,450.

Les Baer Custom Premier II - MSRP $ 2,180 (45 ACP), in 40 S&W, 38 Super, 9mm MSRP is $ 2,620.

Ed Brown Special Forces in all Stainless Steel Entry Level - MSRP $ 2,695 (45 ACP) or MSRP of $ 2,795 in 9mm.

Wilson Combat Classic Full Size - MSRP $ 3,030 (45 ACP) and MSRP of $ 3,145 in 9mm.


So the LBC is the closest competitor to the DW Specialist in price, (45 ACP) with a price difference of
+ $ 479.00 and in 9mm with a price difference of + $ 919.00.

Ed Brown with a price difference of: + $ 994.00 (45 ACP) and in 9mm  + $ 1,094.00.

Wilson Combat came in last (price wise) with a difference of: + $ 1,329.00 (45 ACP) and in 9mm + $ 1,429.00.


So it really depends on the end user if they want to pay the extra coin for a "name brand" custom 1911 pistol(s) and
has the deep pockets needed to do so...and ultimately ask themselves is it worth the extra ~ $500 to $1,400 +...

One can buy another DW pistol in (one each caliber) for the price of the WC pistol...I'm not even sure WC actually
builds their 1911's in house anymore or builds only some models and not others...? Not fully sure on that one.

Wilson does make some great products (AR's) which I do own...however, the price point on their basic model 1911's
are rather high...

Good stuff guys. I really appreciate all of the replies. That DW Specialist is not the custom or semi customer as others I listed, but I am sure drawn to it just as much as LB or EB. I will ultimately get one of each so it is just a "what next." I must admit I am leaning towards the Specialist.

Except for the fact that they're...semi-custom guns? I know the DW isn't production...You're not talking about the LB are you? Lol.

I have a DW Valor commander and I'm itching for a Specialist.  The fit and finish on the DW is pretty nice.  I'm sure it could be improved upon, but for the jump in price the DW is a great choice.

Yes, I consider the DW a production level gun, however the "best" you can get before stepping into the semi custom world. This is the general consensus in the 1911 world. Not taking anything away from DW. They do have a custom shop now however. So, YMMV.

Sure here's one you can see the holster wear. Makes it look better I think!  I added Dawson sights and a magwell. Other than that all stock.

Nice! One of these days I'm going to add a Les Baer to the collection. Guns like this make me want to do it today.

I would pick Baer but that's just me. Not really a big fan of the DWs but the Valor is a good model.

Excerpt from Dan Wesson's own homepage:

"We produce only a few thousand handguns a year, using the best components and finishes the industry has to offer.
We painstakingly hand-fit and polish each and every part, creating the
best possible production 1911.

No matter the model, from our entry-level Heritage to our flagship Valor, we are proud to provide our
customers the “Best Bang for the Buck” in the industry.

On the off chance you might need to speak to our customer service, our
knowledgeable and courteous service department is second to none.

We invite you to find another production 1911 in our price range that gives you everything Dan Wesson has to offer."
_________________________________________

If Dan Wesson is truly hand-fitting each and every single part as we've found coming from Les Baer, then their marketing is doing them a huge disservice here. Seeing as this is a newer rendition of their website, it would seem that they are comfy in using the language of "Production 1911" to describe their products and that this is not done in error.

Dan Wesson makes a great 1911, but at their price point, it's a very small jump to a Les Baer, and I'll take the Les each and every time. Frankly, I think any production 1911 in the ballpark of $1500 finds itself in an awkward niche.

Clearly a minority opinion.

The whole Wilson/Baer/Brown level of 1911s are a completely different tier of quality, fitting and accuracy.

Certainly you don't mean to imply that thousands of Baer/Wilson/Brown owners are unable to ascertain the different levels of quality they bring to the table? You honestly believe those thousands of owners are mindless lemmings, following some grand marketing scheme? (I note Ed Brown does probably THE least of marketing of all of the semi-custom brands.)

Seriously.

Personally, I would avoid the DW. I actually owned the Specialist for a short time, it was very accurate and had a nice trigger, but mine suffered from the galling issue that is pretty well documented if you search online. Jammed up so tight you could barely get it out of battery on the first magazine ever fired through it. DW did fix it and their customer service was pretty responsive, however I sold it after verifying that it was in fact fixed. Left a bad taste in my mouth as it was my most expensive pistol at the time.

That's all been taken care of, no more issues as far as I know.

what was the time frame for these issues?

I would be interested to know how and when they fixed these issues as well since I had this experience just last year.

I think it was early 2015, check the 1911 forums.

Check out Roberts defense 1911s. Semi custom to full custom.  Built one at a time and hand fit with no mim parts.  Great pricing for what you get! I recently handled one and it will be my next 1911!

I have a DW Specialist 9mm and can't wait to be able to add a Valor Commander !  Love my DW

Again this is my opinion, the way I see it why would I spend twice as much for say a Wilson at $3K+ (is it at least twice as good ?) or get better bang for the buck
with the Dan Wesson version...this becomes even more Important if you have a tight budget or want use the price difference for extra training and range time...

Both pistols use very high quality billet/forged parts, both are built on advanced CNC machining centers, both are hand fit, both are function tested before the
pistol leaves the shop/factory in the USA...

The Dan Wesson comes with a 5 year written warranty, while the Wilson does not come with any warranty, written or Implied...(I don't know why for sure, perhaps
it is because they consider it a one time custom Item...?).

I am not taking anything away from Ed Brown, Les Baer, or Wilson Combat they all make fine 1911 pistols (as I stated previously)...I have often used Ed Brown,
Wilson, and EGW 1911 parts for my custom builds in the past, so I know for sure they make quality parts...

I was only bringing to light the value for your money of the Dan Wesson 1911 pistols that are in current production, are they perfect of course not, do they occasionally
have a Issue, of course, just like any mechanical device can, that's why we buy products with a warranty...Granted, the Wilson serves a very high end customer base
and If you have that kind of money to burn on a single stack 1911 pistol God bless you...It is what makes this country great, choices and freedom...

Thanks, and peace.

No one is arguing that a tighter budget requires some adjustments. This is not the point neither I nor you were originally making.

But your premise that the whole Wilson/Brown/Baer/Nighthawk tier of guns aren't twice as good as those costing half as much is the point I am addressing. Gun owners are folks that demand quality per the dollar, perhaps more so than any other demographic, IMO. If the Baer/Brown/Wilson tier didn't deliver that twice-as-much quality, then the world would have many more times the amount of TRP's & DW's as they do now.

While I'm sure there are owners whom purchase the Baer/Brown/Wilson tier 1911 for the snob appeal, I would venture 99% of them purchase them for what they are: finely made semi-custom 1911's they don't have to wait 2 years on in order to buy and shoot.

But yes, they ARE twice as good as a DW 1911. Otherwise no one would be buying them.

I'm going to disagree with you that the Wilsons, Browns, and Nighthawks are twice as good.  I have owned quite a few 1911s and other pistols in my life and I want to ask you is a Colt three times better than a Rock Island?  Is a Dan Wesson twice as good as a Sig?  Is the Sig twice as good as the Ruger?  The answer to all of those chooses is no.  When you buy a Wilson Combat, you are buying a high quality hand-fitted pistol.  Now is it $1500 better than a Dan Wesson?  Is the Wilson $1000 better that a Les Bear?  Nope.  You're paying for the snobbery of belonging to an exclusive group that paid an exuberant amount of money for a gun that has Wilson Combat stamped on the side of the slide.  If I could afford to be apart of the club I surely would be, so I'm not bashing or hating here.  I'm just stating the facts that just because you pay twice as much for something doesn't mean it's twice as good.  Another good one I just thought of on the AR15 side would be; is a Noveske rifle twice as good as a BCM?  Just my opinion.

I've owned a shitload of 1911's a Wilson SuperGrade, a couple CQB elites, a couple CQB's, a TRP and a bunch of junk one's. I personally didn't think they were worth it. I now have a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special and a DW Specialist, My next 1911 will be a Valor (Hopefully a blued one) the LB TRS is a great gun and I shoot the shit out of it, the DW just feels better.

Everyone likes different stuff, find one you like and feels good in your hand, buy it and shoot the shit out of it.

Worth is always personal choice it means something different to everyone.  Is a Mercedes "worth it" over a Chevy? Up to you they both get you from point a to b.  I have Nighthawks, Les Baers, Dan Wesson & Springfield I can absolutely tell the difference between them all great guns but different.  I don't drive expensive cars but I bought a CVO Harley because that's what I wanted.  When buying guns you decide what it is worth to you just like everything else you purchase.   Love my Nighthawks they are my favorite 1911s & definitely recommend them.

That's kind of how I felt too when I owned Wilsons.   Of course the guy who has wanted a Wilson for 10 years may not feel that way, not that there's anything wrong with that.

I am looking at buying one of these two you mentioned (TRS and Specialist) and was curious if you could elaborate on what "you" think makes the DW feel better?
The TRS draws me in because I've always wanted an accurate, arguably the most accurate 1911 and most everyone has said a LB is that handgun. The DW draws me because of the rail, flat top and straight eight sights.
I own a TRP half rail, Colt Commander XSE and an EMP 9mm so not new to the platform but I am wanting to add yet one more to the collection.

Sorry to hijack thread OP, just curious about these two options? Kuryakyn PM me if you would rather.

I appreciate all of the replies. Decisions were made and I will post pictures when received.

Sorry buddy, just saw this post.
The Specialist just seems to lock on to my hand better but it's just the grips, and I like the sights that DW ships with over the Baer.  I added the 10-8 rear sight and the XS standard dot to the Baer and it's much better now.

Yesterday I took them both to the range for some load testing, 12 different loads and that damn Baer out shot the DW by a lot.  I did find one load that I was sure the Baer couldn't keep up with but it ended up putting all 5 in the same fricken hole, so out of my two examples the DW feels better but that Baer shoots lights out at 20 yards and while I thought I would get a Valor I may end up getting rid of the DW and get a Baer Recon.  I need one with a light rail right?

That's the way with me too, I need a rail. I've looked at the recon too but I am somewhat hesitant as I have small hands with short stubby fingers. I can't find a Baer locally to "feel" what I'm buying. LB claim to be a hair longer from front to back of the grip and don't know if it would be comfortable?

Glad to hear it shoots so well. Every post I've read confirms just that as well. I looked at one of the new Springfield Master Class FDE today and it was very nice but for that money I could buy a TRS and a case of ammo....decisions, decisions...

Thanks for the reply...

What did you end up buying OP?

No experience here on Dan Wessons, I am sure they are great guns. I own a Les Baer UTC and it is so much fun to shoot. I was amazed how it broke in after 1000 rounds. The fitting is perfect and it doesn't stop ever. Plenty accurate as well. I like a blued finish that will show some wear after use, mine just hasn't shown it too much so far

Love my Baer, worn bluing is nice too.

As far as "worth it" ..that's always in the eyes of the beholder. My Wilson, full custom Colt build and Les Baer were worth it to me. I can't sit here and tell you there isn't an obvious difference in quality, say compared to a DW or the like, because there most definitely is.

Owell, if you're happy with the DW or the Springfield that's great, because they -are- good guns. But they aren't in the same league. Price, as well as fit, quality of parts and workmanship reflect this.

I chose the Dan Wesson Specialist as the next purchase. (Dont know whats going on with posting pictures but I am tired of trying.)

I love it. Safety is very positive. Finish is great and a super deep black. It has upgraded features like counter sunk slide stop and serrations on top of the slide. Two surprises for me were how good the trigger is and how tight the barrel to bushing fit is. No way to take it apart without a wrench unlike a lot of 1911s. I have no proof and make be talking out of my ass, but I would not be surprised at all to find out the safety, and barrel bushing fit were both hand fitted. I look forward to shooting it.

It has been an interesting two weeks. After ordering the Dan Wesson I went in to a local shop and he had a Les Baer for the first time. I could not believe how tight that thing was. It is actually difficult to cycle the slide and it takes a lot to get it moving. The slide serrations and checkering feel like little needles. Not like they hurt but they grip to your skin. Never felt hand checkering like that and it is very impressive. Safety is super positive just like I like and you can tell end to end on the LB that it was all hand fitted. Well, I bought that damn thing too; Premier II. I do have to say I am not impressed with the trigger and I am hoping it breaks in. The DW trigger is better hands down. The LB trigger has 3 noticeable stages after the take-up but before it finally breaks. I will give it a few hundred rounds to see but I bet it breaks in real nice. As someone else mentioned, you are not getting a fine blue job with the LB that is for sure, but that was not a priority for me.

Like I said, it was an interesting two weeks because I also found a Wilson CQB Elite from 2009 that was NIB never fired. Well hell, I was on a roll so I knocked that one off the list too. It had some of the upgrades I wanted so it was just meant to be! The fit is all great but no where as tight as the LB but that LB is crazy tight. The CQB has hands down the best trigger of any of them. Super slick 3.5 lbs and no creep. It may be difficult to add other makers to the collection rather than exploring more of the Wilson line.

However, I am all done for 2017.

I handled STIs in two shops and wanted to love them being a proud Texan. They must use some sort of lapping compound for slide to frame fit because they are crazy smooth. I understand they are quite accurate and reliable as well. I just could not get past the weak safeties. That may be ok for a race gun but I expect a much more positive safety and did not find it on any of the 5 or 6 I handled. STI did not make my priority list.

Maybe 2018 will be the year of the Ed Brown and Springfield.

WOW!! It has been a great couple of weeks for you!!

A couple questions for you since you are lucky enough to have both of the guns I am looking at.

- can you feel any difference in the LB grip vs the Specialist? Meaning, is it noticeable that the LB is longer from front to back of the grip area? I have small hands and short fat fingers and am concerned this may be an issue for me since I can't find one locally to put my hands on.
- I would also be curious as to how the accuracy of the Specialist compares to the LB?
- last thing, while firing these two, does the recoil impulse seem less with the Specialist over the LB and if so, could it be because of the light rail?

I hope you get the picture thing figured out as I would like to see a pic or three.....

Congrats on your purchases!!!

Great post/review, enjoy.

If you ever use a handgun in self defense the police are going to 'collect' it for at least some period of time.

They are NOT  known for their gun maintenance skills in the property rooms.

Les Baer!  They build them one at a time through a line of gunsmiths.  Great price for an accurate, reliable and very tight pistol.  I have a PII with 50K and a TRS with 15K.  Awesome pistols.  

The Dan Wesson railed Specialist looks like a great pistol.  I thought the DW line was very pricey.  This looks like a steal compared to the Les Baer.

Wow!  I can't believe what I'm saying...    I think the Dan Wesson (for the price) is the better pistol.  I do Like the Baer/Caspian frame rail better.  

Happy Hunting,
Fazer

There are horrible stories of guns coming out of evidence as rusted boat anchors.  No District Attorney wants to present a deadly force encounter with a rusty gun.  Looks bad if the serial number can't be verified.  Juror's will doubt.  Defense attorney's will challenge evidence collection and preservation.

Everything comes down to how they are collected.  LEO's are doing a much better job of collecting and preserving evidence -- Thanks to the O.J. Simpson Double Homicide Case.

Today your firearm (in most cases) will be returned in good condition.  I have seen Judges (very few) order the gun be "restored" refinished.

FYI,  Lets not "Derail" OP's DW railed Specialist.

If I am ever in a situation where I have to defend my life with a pistol, and I live, and the pistol is taken as evidence.....

Within 24 hours I will be buying another of that same pistol. No butthurt. Glad to be alive.

I'm able to have a few 1911 pistols set up the same.  If one goes down the backup is ready to go.

Hands down Dan Wesson

Hands down Dan Wesson