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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:49:28 PM EDT
86 days, not that I'm counting. I want to get one of Colt's base models, preferably blued or parkerized. Which model do I want? I'm not a good enough pistol shot to care about the series 80's supposed lack of receptiveness to trigger jobs. I have small hands, so I have no need for a beavertail safety. I will carry this gun sometimes, so it needs visible, but non snaggy sights. I want a full size, 5" model in 45 ACP. A slightly extended slide release would be great. I want to put a lot of cast lead bullets through this gun, so it should be able to cycle properly with such bullets. Any suggestions? Thanks.
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When I turned 21, I did the same thing and bought a Colt XSE 1911. It's the tits. I would recommend it.
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Wut! Series 80s take awesome trigger jobs. I have two.
or is it three? Don't eve worry about it! |
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I would buy a 70 series. Gives you everything you described and would be a great platform to build on if you decide you want some upgrades down the road.
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LW commander Good for carry, big enough to cycle. View Quote I think if I got a commander, it would be a steel framed Combat Commander. It's a wonderful looking gun, and the sights look excellent. To me, saving that 3 or 4 ounces isn't worth having my 1911 be made of aluminum! I kid, but only a little. Steel would be my preference. To the people who have regularly carried both a Government and a Commander: Is there a significant difference in carry-ability? Thanks again, and keep those suggestions coming! |
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I would buy a 70 series. Gives you everything you described and would be a great platform to build on if you decide you want some upgrades down the road. View Quote Can you expand on that? Are series 70 parts more available, or cheaper? What makes the 70 more up-gradable than an 80? To expand on that, do series 80s have parts compatibility issues if something breaks? Thanks. |
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Can you expand on that? Are series 70 parts more available, or cheaper? What makes the 70 more up-gradable than an 80? To expand on that, do series 80s have parts compatibility issues if something breaks? Thanks. View Quote Some people just don't like series 80 guns because of the extra "non-original" parts....fact is, a series 80 trigger can be worked on and be just as good as any series 70 trigger. I have two semi custom 1911's (series 70s) and one full custom, which is a Colt Commander (s80). Not the least bit worried about the 80 series safety parts and when I get it back from the smith, I know the trigger will be darn nice. Bottom line, don't get too hung up on the 70vs80 deal. |
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Well the main differences between the original series 70 and series 80/90 is the
added parts that are required for the firing pin safety system that are put into the slide and frame... So these added parts to the pistol: A) Decrease the crispness, feel, and add weight to the trigger pull... B) Increases the potential of having problems down the road and possibly making the pistol less reliable due to the added parts... C) Does help prevent a AD if the pistol is dropped on its muzzle on a hard surface with a round in the chamber... For 1911 purists the series 70 is the only way to go due to the fantastic trigger feel and lightness/crispness... My has a sweet 3 lbs trigger pull, someone who has a fast trigger pull can empty the pistol in less than 3 seconds... |
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Can you expand on that? Are series 70 parts more available, or cheaper? What makes the 70 more up-gradable than an 80? To expand on that, do series 80s have parts compatibility issues if something breaks? Thanks. View Quote I have both 70 and 80's series guns and much prefer the simplicity of the 70's series. Most hardcore 1911 people will lean towards the 70 as well because the 80's series is considered a solution in search of a problem (there are no inherent safety issues with 70 series). All the of the Les Baer's, Wilson, Browns, Night Hawks, and etc are also 70 series designs. The Colt 70's series is a customshop gun. They're nice and given the choice I would go with it over an 80 any day. |
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Well the main differences between the original series 70 and series 80/90 is the added parts that are required for the firing pin safety system that are put into the slide and frame... So these added parts to the pistol: A) Decrease the crispness, feel, and add weight to the trigger pull... B) Increases the potential of having problems down the road and possibly making the pistol less reliable due to the added parts... C) Does help prevent a AD if the pistol is dropped on its muzzle on a hard surface with a round in the chamber... For 1911 purists the series 70 is the only way to go due to the fantastic trigger feel and lightness/crispness... My has a sweet 3 lbs trigger pull, someone who has a fast trigger pull can empty the pistol in less than 3 seconds... View Quote I do consider myself a selective purist. I will hopefully be getting one of those CMP 1911s coming down the pipeline, which will tickle my purist bone just fine. This gun will be a combination of form and function, with selective upgrades that have been devised over the last half century of illustrious service. |
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My first carry gun was a Springfield mil spec . Still miss it.
I think a guy with a screen name like yours should get the series 70 govt model. Then get a milt sparks summer special and a good stiff belt then mags and ammo. |
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Some people just don't like series 80 guns because of the extra "non-original" parts....fact is, a series 80 trigger can be worked on and be just as good as any series 70 trigger. I have two semi custom 1911's (series 70s) and one full custom, which is a Colt Commander (s80). Not the least bit worried about the 80 series safety parts and when I get it back from the smith, I know the trigger will be darn nice. Bottom line, don't get too hung up on the 70vs80 deal. View Quote 100% agree. The kid is on the right track going Colt. If you do get a regular 1991 though you might wish you had some better sights, so it might make sense to buy one with Novak sights already.. such as the Rail Gun. |
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The series 80 has four additional parts over the 70. They can all be removed with zero negative effects. I would prefer a 70, but the 80 issue can be fixed.
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Having had both stock and custom series 80 and 70 style guns, and being an d school bullseye shooter used to highly refined triggers, I see no difference in trigger pull stock or worked on to matter.
Since they enlarged the sights on the 1991 series some 25+ years ago over the old tiny GI sights I have found the factory sights just fine, and even shot a full class with a traditional World War One reproduction Colt with the tiny sights, and was recognized the most accurate shooter, with 50 year old eyes. At 21 years old any sights should work. All the following in colts line are under $1000 and should suit you fine: Series 70 01991 Rail gun Competition Probably a couple more full lengths as well. |
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Good for you! I waited till I was age 45 until I purchased a 1911, wish I would have done it much sooner. I also have small hands and it just feels right in my hand.
I got a Springfield loaded that shoots lead bullets very well. |
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Check out the Wiley Clapp line of Colts. Lots of features for quite a bit cheaper than it would cost to upgrade later down the road.
ETA - The WC series all have: - Series 70 internals - Novak wide notch rear sight (better for bad eyes) - Novak brass bead front sight for visibility - small GI thumb safety (less likely to disengage in holster) - Beavertail and undercut trigger guard for higher grip - frontstrap and mainspring housing 25 LPI checkering for a secure hold - National Match barrel - Beveled magazine well - Grips that get narrower toward the frontstrap, which I find to be quite an improvement over stock 1911 grip shapes Not a lot more than a stock series 70: Wiley Clapp Government model They also make a WC Lightweight Commander and a WC stainless Combat Commander. |
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Well, I have narrowed it down a little, but I am still open to suggestions.
I like the classic lines of the 1991, but the sights leave a little to be desired. Aesthetically, I love the spur hammer. The Combat Commander is also a frontrunner, with the pre installed Novak sights, and lighter weight than a full size model would be ideal for carry. This model seems to include just a few extra features that I can see adding to a base model anyhow, such as the bump on the grip safety and slightly extended thumb safety. Aesthetically, I like the pony on the rear left part of the slide. The Series 70 seems to have a faithful following, and I have to believe that is for a good reason. It just looks right, and that means a lot to me. Like the 1991 though, the sights are not ideal. Like I said in the OP, I am not a good enough shot with a pistol to care about the last marginal unit of trigger perfection. While I am certainly open to other suggestions, these are the ones rising to the top right now. Someone said that the S80 can be retrofitted back into a S70 type. Can anyone comment on this? Do you just need to remove the extra parts, or are there series 70 parts that need to be installed? Thanks everyone, I think I am getting closer! I still have three months to think, so hopefully I will find the right one in that time. Oh, also. I am 20, but my eyes are terrible. Right now they are correctable to 20/20, but I need pretty strong glasses to get there. My eyes will probably stay bad for life, so visible sights are a boon to me. |
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I've never converted a series 80 to series 70, but from what I've read, it basically involves removing the series 80 firing pin safety parts in the frame and replacing them with a shim to keep the sear and whatnot in place. I think the firing pin safety plunger is also removed from the slide to allow the firing pin to travel forward when fired.
I wouldn't get bogged down with deciding between the two systems. A series 70 typically has a stronger firing pin spring and a lighter, titanium firing pin installed to minimize inertia if dropped. A series 80 uses the trigger to push against two small levers in the frame, which push up a firing pin safety plunger out of the way of the firing pin. This system, which is similar to the firing pin safety setup found in most common service pistols today, has the trigger doing one more thing than a series 70, making the trigger feel slightly different, but it's not very perceptible to most folks in my experience. You also gain 3-4 extra parts during a detail strip of he pistol. What you gain is a piece of steel in the way of the firing pin should you drop the firearm, or have the sear fail in some manner. I have Colts of each flavor, and have no problem shooting or carrying either. My series 70 Wiley Clapp LW Commander is cocked and locked on my hip as I write this and I have no reservations about it's safety. |
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I've never converted a series 80 to series 70, but from what I've read, it basically involves removing the series 80 firing pin safety parts in the frame and replacing them with a shim to keep the sear and whatnot in place. I think the firing pin safety plunger is also removed from the slide to allow the firing pin to travel forward when fired. I wouldn't get bogged down with deciding between the two systems. A series 70 typically has a stronger firing pin spring and a lighter, titanium firing pin installed to minimize inertia if dropped. A series 80 uses the trigger to push against two small levers in the frame, which push up a firing pin safety plunger out of the way of the firing pin. This system, which is similar to the firing pin safety setup found in most common service pistols today, has the trigger doing one more thing than a series 70, making the trigger feel slightly different, but it's not very perceptible to most folks in my experience. You also gain 3-4 extra parts during a detail strip of he pistol. What you gain is a piece of steel in the way of the firing pin should you drop the firearm, or have the sear fail in some manner. I have Colts of each flavor, and have no problem shooting or carrying either. My series 70 Wiley Clapp LW Commander is cocked and locked on my hip as I write this and I have no reservations about it's safety. View Quote From your understanding, does this S80->S70 conversion produce an identical trigger pull to a factory S70? I ask, because I could consider getting the 80, and converting later if I find the trigger is not good enough. |
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Additionally, what spare parts would you recommend keeping on hand? What is prone to wear and breakage?
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From your understanding, does this S80->S70 conversion produce an identical trigger pull to a factory S70? I ask, because I could consider getting the 80, and converting later if I find the trigger is not good enough. View Quote The spring force from the series 80 parts would no longer be present in the firearm, so they would no longer be influencing the trigger pull. A series 80 gun just adds the colored parts in the picture below. By removing them, you would essentially be left with a series 70 gun with a series 70 trigger pull. Attached File |
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Additionally, what spare parts would you recommend keeping on hand? What is prone to wear and breakage? View Quote Personally, I keep spares of any and all springs, to include the magazine catch, plunger, and flat sear springs. I also keep a spare extractor handy just in case. Once you tear into a 1911 and really learn how it functions, I think you'll find it to be a rather simple pistol to maintain and operate. |
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The spring force from the series 80 parts would no longer be present in the firearm, so they would no longer be influencing the trigger pull. A series 80 gun just adds the colored parts in the picture below. By removing them, you would essentially be left with a series 70 gun with a series 70 trigger pull. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/47838/IMG-3543-132931.JPG View Quote That looks great, thanks. I was going to ask about specifically what extra parts there were in the gun. The Combat Commander is definitely taking the lead for me. |
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If you've never owned a 1911, or have never shot tuned or high end 1911's, I'm confident if someone laid a stock series 80 and a stock series 70 1911 in front of you, you would not be able to tell which is which by pulling their triggers. That is probably true for -most- people as well, even the ones that prefer 70 over 80....if anyone can produce a study or an example of a s80 gun failing because of the extra parts I'd love to see it....I'm not defending one or the other as i have both. Just seems like it is something that is dwelled on for no -real- reason.
Like said above don't buy based on this. Get the gun that has the options you want and in your price range. The series should be the last variable in your decision... Just my opinion. |
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If you've never owned a 1911, or have never shot tuned or high end 1911's, I'm confident if someone laid a stock series 80 and a stock series 70 1911 in front of you, you would not be able to tell which is which by pulling their triggers. That is probably true for -most- people as well, even the ones that prefer 70 over 80....if anyone can produce a study or an example of a s80 gun failing because of the extra parts I'd love to see it....I'm not defending one or the other as i have both. Just seems like it is something that is dwelled on for no -real- reason. Like said above don't buy based on this. Get the gun that has the options you want and in your price range. The series should be the last variable in your decision... Just my opinion. View Quote I appreciate that assessment. As said, I am strongly leaning towards the Combat Commander right now. It seems to have everything I want, and nothing I don't. Good sights, the speed bump on the grip safety, and the aesthetic. I could do without the holes drilled through the trigger, but hey. You can't win them all. |
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I appreciate that assessment. As said, I am strongly leaning towards the Combat Commander right now. It seems to have everything I want, and nothing I don't. Good sights, the speed bump on the grip safety, and the aesthetic. I could do without the holes drilled through the trigger, but hey. You can't win them all. View Quote Every 1911 I own now has a flat trigger installed. There are plenty of very reputable smiths out there that can put whatever trigger you wish in -and- perform a trigger job at what I consider a very reasonable price. If you ship from an FFL shipping of a handgun is cheap as well. Something to consider down the road. Minor details in the long haul...I sent a Les Baer UTC to Evolution Armory for the installation of a Wilson flat trigger, among other things, turn around and price were great. |
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Congrats for having the good sense to avoid the clones and get the original. Avoid the MIM-filled Johnny-come-latelys. Some Springers are okay, but a Colt will always be a Colt, and therefore will retain its value if you ever sell it or trade it for something else. 1915 Colt 1911 - "Pancho Villa" commemorative edition. Filled with testicular fortitude. No MIM-crap. Yep, when thugy illegals crossed our southern border and killed Americans, did we wet our panties and run to find a safe space? Nope, we saddled-up with 1903 Springfields and Colt .45s, and went down to Mexico and shot them. That should our policy again, in addition to a Wall. View Quote That there is a fine lead slinging implement! I considered going for a Springfield, I really did. And I will likely get some full sized model in the future, perhaps even a Rock Island! But right now, I think the Combat Commander will be mine! |
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I reserved my Colt Combat Commander from the LGS today. 31 days to go!
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Check out the Wiley Clapp line of Colts. Lots of features for quite a bit cheaper than it would cost to upgrade later down the road. ETA - The WC series all have: - Series 70 internals - Novak wide notch rear sight (better for bad eyes) - Novak brass bead front sight for visibility - small GI thumb safety (less likely to disengage in holster) - Beavertail and undercut trigger guard for higher grip - frontstrap and mainspring housing 25 LPI checkering for a secure hold - National Match barrel - Beveled magazine well - Grips that get narrower toward the frontstrap, which I find to be quite an improvement over stock 1911 grip shapes Not a lot more than a stock series 70: Wiley Clapp Government model They also make a WC Lightweight Commander and a WC stainless Combat Commander. View Quote |
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I just bought a Combat Commander steel frame. LOVE IT . It actually had the wrong grips on it. I called Colt and they apologized and sent me the correct Colt logo grips. I did remove my Mag catch and slightly polish an edge to allow less force for the mag to insert. It was extremely stiff in my opinion . Your getting an really nice COLT . Cheers Wardawg
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I just bought a Combat Commander steel frame. LOVE IT . It actually had the wrong grips on it. I called Colt and they apologized and sent me the correct Colt logo grips. I did remove my Mag catch and slightly polish an edge to allow less force for the mag to insert. It was extremely stiff in my opinion . Your getting an really nice COLT . Cheers Wardawg View Quote |
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I'm getting really impatient waiting. Could you folks post up pics of your Commanders?
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Beautiful guns, fellas. I've already bought a Mad Max holster, and some Chip McCormick mags. And I've been stockpiling lead in order to cast 200 grain pills. I hope the DeSantis works for me. It gets pretty good reviews. I'd definitely rather not spend all that money on a Milt Sparks.
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* * * Oh, also, I am 20, but my eyes are terrible. Right now they are correctable to 20/20, but I need pretty strong glasses to get there. My eyes will probably stay bad for life, so visible sights are a boon to me. View Quote That, and Viagra. |
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I'm significantly older, but had similarly bad eye-sight. I strongly recommend having LASIK surgery by a reputable surgeon once you get to the stage in life where you can afford it. That, and Viagra. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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* * * Oh, also, I am 20, but my eyes are terrible. Right now they are correctable to 20/20, but I need pretty strong glasses to get there. My eyes will probably stay bad for life, so visible sights are a boon to me. That, and Viagra. |
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Whoops I'm late.
I would still recommend the above additions minus the light. Grats on your new Colt. |
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I appreciate the advice, but my go to house gun is either an AR with Surefire and Aimpoint, or a Glock 20 with TLR 1 if for aome reason I need a pistol. This 1911 is strictly for carry and target practice. I will look into night sights. If I find that the trigger is not good enough, I will see about retrofitting the series 70 features. For now, that extra bit of safety seems like a worthwhile trade off for a small loss in trigger quality.
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If you've never owned a 1911, or have never shot tuned or high end 1911's, I'm confident if someone laid a stock series 80 and a stock series 70 1911 in front of you, you would not be able to tell which is which by pulling their triggers. That is probably true for -most- people as well, even the ones that prefer 70 over 80....if anyone can produce a study or an example of a s80 gun failing because of the extra parts I'd love to see it....I'm not defending one or the other as i have both. Just seems like it is something that is dwelled on for no -real- reason. Like said above don't buy based on this. Get the gun that has the options you want and in your price range. The series should be the last variable in your decision... Just my opinion. View Quote Because of those extra parts. I'm not saying it happens to people every day but acting like it doesnt happen is wrong too. I would never own one again. I'd much rather take my chances with less drop safety and less to go wrong to each there own. |
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That picture does not depict a Colt series 80 frame. A Colt will have a series of two levers in the frame that raise a firing pin block plunger in the slide.
Attached File I'm not saying that a series 80 has never experienced a failure due to the added parts, but I have a hard time understanding how this added 'risk' could not be mitigated by A) periodically cleaning the pistol and b) replacing the firing pin plunger spring in the slide whenever other springs are changed out on a regular basis. |
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