I am looking to add to my 1911 collection which consists of 1-Springfield loaded 45acp. This pistol is one of my most accurate centerfire handguns and is as accurate as I can shoot at 20 yards. I would like to add a 9mm for plinking and 10mm for blasting/hunting to this collection.

I keep hearing how nice the Rock Island pistols are for the money with real prices under $600.

I also hear how nice the Dan Wesson pistols are for the money with real prices around $1400.

Are the higher end pistols 2x-3x nicer? I don't mind paying for quality but will the average shooter (me)be able to tell the difference? How much smaller groups could I expect at 20, 50 yards. What should I expect from the higher end guns that the lower priced options won't have?

A much higher degree of fit and finish, better triggers, better parts, etc....Dan Wesson really is about the best before you get to the Big 4. STI and Baer are right there also. Can't give exact numbers on how well you'll improve, too many human variables. My STI 2011 is a 1" gun at 25yds from a rest with handloads. My opinion is past this, you get a lot of pretty stuff like serrated top straps, hand checkering, French borders and more attention to small details. There is a noticeable difference once you break that barrier into higher end guns.

You will know the moment you take your first few shots with the new pistol. I can't explain it but when I bought my Les Baer I thought I was crazy until I shot it and realized it was worth every penny.
 It's nice knowing it's the shooter not the gun

SA Pro is the one and only you will ever need.

Dad has a Dan wesson, it shoots great, also seems better than his wilson combat

In a nutshell: accuracy, reliability, fit and finish.

Once you see how a really accurate 1911 is built, you will be appalled to see how many production 1911s ride the link and have a barrel hood gap you can throw a cat through.   Once you get close to $2000, 3" @ 50 yards should be your minimum expectation.

The more you spend, the more you get, up to some point of diminishing returns.  At this time, I would say that point is around $3500-4000.   Some makers will have a different emphasis on the accuracy/reliability/fit equation than others.   Here are a quick and dirty opinion graphs that I slapped together based on having owned a few brands.   You could add different dimensions such as customer service, etc., as well.

I like expensive pistols, but that being said, for the great majority of shooters, not even counting their skill level, the mid to long range accuracy obtained from a pistol is limited by the ammunition being used rather than by the gun, and many production pistols are extremely reliable and surprisingly accurate.

For folks shooting at 7-10 yards, with enough practice, almost any decent pistol with decent range ammunition will deliver one hole or clover leaf groupings.

Additionally, in the event one gets stuck with one of the occasional  turds that escapes detection at every gun makers factory and finds its way into a customer's hands, IMO, manufacturers like S&W, Ruger, SIG, and Springfield Armory offer far superior customer service than the likes of Ed Brown, Les Baer, and occasionally Nighthawk Custom.

Just my 2 cents.

Buy one and only and it becomes one for every day of the week !

Highly recommended with Wilson CQB running a tight second.....

My SVI 9mm is the most accurate pistol that I own and it's the most expensive firearm I own as well.  Well worth the money to me

Yes to me they are worth it..

In any industry there are products that cost no more to build and market than a competitor's product, but price their product at a much higher wholesale and/or retail profit margin. I don't know why the gun industry would be any different.

I have a Nighthawk GRP that feels like an extension of my hand. It points and shoot naturally for me. It's 1000% more accurate than I am.
It just "fits" me better than pretty much any other 1911 I've owned. I can't describe the difference, but it feels "right" in my hand.

I've been collecting, carrying, and shooting various different firearms for the last 38 years. I've had Colts (Govt. model, Combat Commanders, and Delta Elite) and Kimbers (Eclipse, Pro Carry, Custom TLE/RL II, Pro Raptor)  in 1911 platforms. Several years ago before I retired I finally decided to find out for myself if any of the higher end 1911 pistols was actually better than those low end Colts and Kimbers I had owned and bought a Night Hawk Custom Recon Enforcer in 10mm on sale for $3,850.00. I could kick myself for not having spent the money (the most for any pistol I have ever spent is $1,600.00) long before. It is much better than any other 1911 I have ever owned. It's like having driven Toyotas, Fords (work car as I'd never pay money for a Ford), Jeeps, Pontiac, Chevrolet, and a few other American cars. The one day you get to drive a BMW and the experience blows away all the other cars. Some people will never spend more than $1,000 or $2,000 for a pistol (I know I was one of them). But, they actually are missing out on something special. If nothing else, just go to a stocking dealer and handle some Wilson Combat or Night Hawk Custom pistols and see for yourself. Just by handling these pistols you will see that they are much better than anything less.

I shoot, carry, and abuse my "high end" 1911s.

My two go-tos are a WC CQBC45 and a SA Pro.

The best way I can describe a higher-end 1911 is that it does everything well and looks good doing it (until you wear the finish off)

Then it looks even better

Looks like Im going to have to find someplace that has a few of these in stock. Thank you all for your input.

Over my 30 years of shooting, collecting, and smithing on 1911's. I have owned almost everything.
I think with the High End guns you do hit a point of dimishing returns. $4000 for a top end Wilson is nuts.
On the other side some of the low end phillipee guns like the Rock islands are pretty nice for the money. I don't know how good the quaility of their metals are.
Me I lean towards Colts. They are about middle ground. Leave me room to tinker. And are not so expensive that I wron't carry them.
My Advice to you is to look at the Springfield TRP line and the Dan Wesson line. These are alot of guns for around the $1500 mark.

Top end Wilson runs much more than 4k.

I have no problems carrying a vetted SA Pro.

I love my hand me down colt gold cup that my grandfather left me. It just works every single time. Then I wanted a double stack 1911.

So I bought a para, which was a turd. Didn't run for shit. Since I really wanted a nice double stack, I decided to spend the money and order an svi. I would say it was worth the money, but it's too nice to carry which basically makes it a range toy. So, I would say that if you want a nice carry gun, start with a good base and tinker until it works if it doesn't right away. If you want a really nice range toy, go all out!

I been in the 1911 game for years......I started off years ago and worked my way through the lineups of milspecs, loadeds, operators, and trps before finally getting a custom.......once I went custom, it was hard to go back.  i currently have another custom being built by the fine folks at springfield.

Ask yourself this, do ya wanna drive a Yugo or a Cadillac?

I did about as much researching as I could as far as where my money stopped getting me real functional benefits. For me, it seemed the Kimber Gold Match II Stainless was that gun. Fantastic gun (~$1300 if I remember right).

I think I got my money's worth. There is zero slide to frame play, zero barrel movement at lock up, and ZERO jams to date (even through the 1st 500 round "break in"). In fact, I even fired 400 plus in the first day over the course of just an hour. Got the gun plenty dirty and blazing hot as I needed gloves. That was the day I came to range expecting to need a "break in." It probably burnt off much of the lube by then and I didnt smother it as I wanted a realistic performance.

I was pretty shocked. The range master was too. As far as I can say - you have to do a lot of research on each maker/model. I heard of issues with other expensive guns (like the sig tacops even). Seems like you can get a great one even for around $600 and a bad one too for more.

To me - it seemed the "sweet spot" was falling into that $1200-$1400 range. Wilson Combats make me drool for sure, but my Kimber has never failed me. Not even once...

My brother shoots competitively in bullseye with a 1911 . He currently shoots  a custom built 1911 by a famous builder.  He has worn out several from a few different builders . There is a limit to the mechanical accuracy that you can get out of a 1911 . He spent about $1800 and is nationally competitive with the gun. It is built on a Caspian slide and frame .  I think at $2,000 you might as well skip off the shelf and buy a custom gun built the way you want . Beyond that you are buying the label more than the gun,.

This but a TRP would be a great step up from a Loaded even.

I wholeheartedly agree, as I absolutely love firing all my various SVI pistols

I spent over $1000 for my Combat Elite. Worth every penny.

A few months ago my old man and I laid out a SAI Loaded, an SAI TRP Operator, and a Les Baer Premier II, all next to one another.



Picking up each pistol and moving down the line made the differences in quality and parts very obvious.



For me, production guns in the $1500 ball park are hard to justify when it's a hop, skip and a jump to a truly hand-fitted, semi-custom gun.



When you start comparing the higher end guns, there is a divide amongst shooters that is mostly centered around opinions on how a 1911 should be built.

Whether it's worth it or not is totally subjective. Only you can answer if it is worth it.

None of my custom guns really shoot significantly better than my production models. They are fitted better, sure.  But they don't shoot $3-$5k better. They are worth the cost to me for more intangible reasons.

If I was looking to buy new, then I'd go with another Valor. It shoots just as good as any custom I own and is fit/finished nearly to the same level. It's very hard to beat the value of a DW Valor right now.  

It I wanted something that was more of a display piece or an example of a work of art, then yeah I'd go custom again. The cost associated with hiring an expert craftsman for their talent is what is worth to me.

Only you know your financial situation, and can associate the expectations of a few thousand dollars versus several thousand.

I picked up a Les Baer Premier II 1.5 option about a year ago.  I've had Colts, Kimbers and Springfields and the LB has been a great addition and a joy to own.  I thought I was crazy for spending almost 2K on a gun, but after the first target I was happy with the purchase.  1500+ rounds and has been 100%

I just traded into a DW-Heritage model and am pretty impressed for a production quality gun. Fit and finish are spot on and has all quality parts. I can see why all the love for Dan Wesson 1911 pistols.

Picked up a Dan Wesson Valor in 9mm today along with a Colt Delta Elite 10mm. Stripping them for cleaning and lube and here are my first impressions.
The Valor barrel locks up nice and tight, the Colt isn't bad but not real tight and my Springfield Loaded is pretty loose. I have no idea how may rounds the Loaded has thru it.
Trigger wise the Valor is best, Colt 2nd and Springfield 3rd.
The Valor has most edges rounded, its a very nice "feeling" gun. The Colt has some sharp edges on the bottom of the slide etc same as the Springfield.
Gripping the guns, the Valor feels very secure with the front and back checkering and the grips are sharp and "clingy". Might be too rough in a 10mm? I don't know. The Colt is nice, the grips wrap around the front strap and the back is serrated but they are not as sharp as the Valor. The Springer with stock wood grips and no font checkering feels the least secure. Having shot this gun a bunch I never noticed it being an issue.

So far I'm happy with both new guns and hope to shoot a few rounds thru them in the morning.

The more you shoot 1911s, the more you will appreciate rough grips and checkering. Let your hands develop calluses rather than going for softer grips, you'll have more control. Colt has the Pachmayr style rubber grips that were common on MEU SOC guns and other 1911s in the 80s. They are fine, but if you sweat on them they tend to get slick and slimy, which is why many people don't use them and will put skateboard tape on the front strap if it didn't have factory checkering.

It's an unfair comparison between your three guns in terms of appearance, trigger, and finish.

While there are some "values" out there, general rule of thumb is more expensive guns will be nicer and better finished. 1911 owners are anal about the details and are willing to pay a LOT to get them.

Also, are you talking about rounded edges as in a melt treatment, or just not having any sharp edges on the gun as a basic finish--because carry guns will usually have some melting done to them (I have one that's extremely so to the point it looks a bit off).

1911s are a lot like women, everyone has a type that they like best and they will give you a lot of advice and tell you why, but that may not work for you.

I can tell you that tight lockup doesn't necessarily mean quality, but a good slide to frame fit does.

The DW is probably the best gun you can get without spending another 500-1000 dollars.

FWIW, if you want to shoot full power ammo in your DE, have a custom shop fit a ramped barrel in it. Then you still have the Colt you wanted, but can shoot just about anything out of it--within reason.

+1 for mine as well.

But, they're much more expensive than the one OP is looking at.

SVI makes what is pretty much my ultimate pistol.   That's about the limit of what I would spend on a handgun.

I had a TRP that I foolishly sold to fund a TRP w/rail

Something came up and the funds got diverted, and it never got replaced

With that said, I have no problem spending $1,200-1,500 on a good 1911, but these $3,000+ guns are just stupid

My TRP was a great shooter

I think having literally every Glock made is stupid, but it's whatever floats your boat.  Me, I'd rather have one SVI and one Glock than just 10 Glocks.

Save money, buy premium product.  It's not rocket science.

Lol, this is too funny coming from someone too cheap to buy a $24 membership to this site...

Your argument is the same as saying a Escalade is superior to a Tahoe... Its the same damn truck with cosmetic improvements...

You can spend your $4,500+ on a SVI 1911, or you can buy a $1,500 TRP, both will out perform the shooter in reality... All your really looking for is a status symbol

Whatever floats your boat brother

I wholeheartedly agree. I started with a Springfield G.I, added a Colt Combat Commander, Springfield TRP, Kimber Warrior, and finally a Nighthawk GRP Recon. I would have never bought the Recon at MSRP, but I found one lightly used (hardly at all) on Gunbroker for $1600.00. Is it the crown jewel of my pistols, absolutely. GRP is my duty gun, EDC, extension of my person. For what I paid I am immensely happy with it. However, if it was 3.5K, I don't think I would. Similarly Frank Proctor was recently talking about the upgrade packages he does to Glock handguns. In that talk, he said at past the $400.00 or so in upgrades he suggests, you're really not getting any more performance out of the gun. I don't know where that line lies with 1911s, but I certainly see a lot of cosmetic and not performance driven work. Granted, I think it's great and impressive to see some of the 1911s that look like functional art. But my world is dirty, hard, and full of an increasing number of people that seem to want to kill me. I need performance more then ascetics  

The TRP is an excellent choice and ran better than any of my 1911s before the GRP. I won't say it runs any worse, it was just slick and I needed a gunlight for my applications. (Hate the railed TRP...adjustable sights on a combat handgun and too many other changes I don't care for..ugh). Knowing how high quality my TRP is, if I was going to drop more then 2K on a handgun, it would be a SA Professional.

Last time I checked my SVI is a double stack and the TRP is not.  Nor does it have a removable breachface to shoot 40, 45 or whatever along with 9mm based cartridges with just a barrel and spring swap.  The TRP isn't even in the same ballpark in regards to physical features.  So no, it's not simply cosmetic.

In doublestacks the SVI makes a certain amount of sense and you do benefit from their collection of innovations.   I haven't been able to justify buying any of their single stacks, though.

I haven't either, although I could see buying one.  I spec'd a couple out actually... but then I was always like, nah, I'd just get another double stack... which would be basically the same thing I have now except for 4" with night sights.  However, I wouldn't really want to hand it over to the police if I ever had to use it, but damn if I don't want another one that I could carry.

The 1911 is an enthusiasts gun, to borrow from LAV.  The cost doesn't come from the parts necessarily, it's the labor involved in putting those parts together.  It truly is a work of art if done right.  

I have no clue what "fit and finish" means but the main difference between a production gun like a TRP and a custom/semi-custom 1911 like a Professional starts with the slide to frame fit.  The slide and frame are hand fit, meaning the smith starts with a hunk of steel and takes away material until it fits together smoothly.  

The barrel in a custom 1911 is also fit by hand.  The smith starts off with an oversized barrel and takes away material by hand until it's tight and fits perfect.

The slide/frame fit and barrel fit are where accuracy comes from and is going to be about equal on all semi-custom/custom 1911s on the market today.  Some are tighter than others, but this doesn't necessarily mean the gun is more accurate.

Moving on to function...

The front strap treatment on the Pro or LB is filed by hand, vs the TRP, which is done by machine.  If you shoot both side by side, you can tell the difference right away.

All small parts, even down to the pins are fit by hand.  This isn't so much to do with accuracy as it is the general feel/function of the 1911.  Try actuating a thumb safety that's been fit by hand on a WC/Pro/NHC, vs a gritty thumb safety that rubs on the frame of a SA GI or production Colt.

The magwell does add to function and on a Pro, for example, the magwell is blended by hand, to reduce snagging.  If you want to see a beautiful example of a nicely done magwell (or anything else on a 1911), go check out some work done by Jason Burton.

The finish is also something to factor in the cost of a 1911.  Ionbond or Hard Hat, for example, is going to cost more than standard blueing, which is one of the reasons why LB costs less than other semi-custom/custom 1911s.  This, along with the fact that Les won't use any parts but his own...scalability and all that.

There is a big difference in aesthetics with a custom 1911.  All the edges are dehorned externally and internally.  All tool marks are filed.   Top/rear slide serrations, for example, are done by hand.

All this hand fitting done by a highly skilled and in-demand pistolsmith costs money, that's where the difference in price comes from.  Some companies like NHC/WC will machine the slide serrations or front strap checkering to save money and this is reflective in the price of those certain models.

I'd say a true custom built by one of the top 5 smiths, using hand selected parts by the end-user is going to cost between $6-8k.

WC Supergrade with features within certain perimeters ~$5-7k.

WC/NHC/SACS standard models $3-5k.

LB standard models ~$1800-3k

I'd love to be the owner of a Stan Chen Custom.

Absolutely worth it to buy a nice custom or semi custom I've got several 1911 including Nighthawk Custom, Les Baer, and production Dan Wesson and Springfield.  The Hawks are my favorite here is my Costa Compact yes it is expensive but very nicely made and smooth reliable shooting.

Let me ask you this. Is a higher end car more capable than one of a lower value? Is a Mercedes better than a Buick?

I have my heart set on one of those $3500-4000 models,  I figure it will be worth it because they are so well made they will be heirloom quality, something I can enjoy and can pass down for the next generation.