Some 1911 Experiments You Probably Haven't Seen

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Some 1911 Experiments You Probably Haven't Seen

Posted: 5/30/2016 6:36:11 PM EDT

I'm sure some people here know all about this, but this was news to me.

This may look familiar for you OSS Liberator fans:

And here is a full auto 1911 for the Army:

There's 3 more and some explanation in the article.

http://www.guns.com/2015/09/14/5-experimental-1911s-youve-probably-never-heard-of/

Posted: 5/30/2016 9:29:34 PM EDT

[#1]

Unless I am mistaken, I think Bonnie and Clyde or one of the gangsters from that era used a full auto 1911.

Posted: 5/30/2016 10:19:46 PM EDT

[#2]

I'm sorry.....i just don't see the need for a full auto handgun. To me it's the ultimate spray and pray.

Posted: 5/30/2016 11:29:43 PM EDT

[#3]

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Unless I am mistaken, I think Bonnie and Clyde or one of the gangsters from that era used a full auto 1911.

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/John-Dillinger-M1911A1-Full-Auto.jpg

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Dillinger. His was custom made, not factory produced. Colt and others made full auto prototypes. Swartz conversion is a known one. Colt had one in .38 Super too. Dillinger's was .38 Super.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/03/29/colt-m1911-machine-pistols/

Posted: 5/30/2016 11:29:48 PM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted: I'm sorry.....i just don't see the need for a full auto handgun. To me it's the ultimate spray and pray.

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The vz 61 seems to have a lot going for it. As did the Stechkin.

Posted: 5/30/2016 11:34:57 PM EDT

[#5]

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I'm sorry.....i just don't see the need for a full auto handgun. To me it's the ultimate spray and pray.

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One who does not understand covering fire..............

Give me a Glock 17. a 30 round mag, a butt stock, and a fore grip, I will put some dicks in the dirt. Full auto or not.

Dicks.

Dirt.

Posted: 5/30/2016 11:35:54 PM EDT

[#6]

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I'm sorry.....i just don't see the need for a full auto handgun. To me it's the ultimate spray and pray.

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The discussion is historical in nature.. these guns were made 80+ years ago. You are a little late. They weren't successful.

Posted: 5/30/2016 11:51:10 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:

The discussion is historical in nature.. these guns were made 80+ years ago. You are a little late. They weren't successful.

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Quoted:

Quoted: I'm sorry.....i just don't see the need for a full auto handgun. To me it's the ultimate spray and pray.

The discussion is historical in nature.. these guns were made 80+ years ago. You are a little late. They weren't successful.

They were successful enough that FDR all but banned them, and Ronald Reagan banned new ones.

Posted: 5/30/2016 11:55:04 PM EDT

[#8]

I believe a select-fire 1911 with 50-round drum was devised to be used by the observer in early aircraft in WWI. It didn't take long before more powerful weapons were adapted for air use.

Wildearp; with your idea in mind of a Glock with buttstock, fore grip and large mag, consider that this is why the pistol-caliber carbine has suddenly taken off after years of flat sales. The Kel Tec Sub2000 is a very interesting one. Mine is in .40 and takes Glock mags, including the aftermarket 50-rd drum. The fore grip is aftermarket too. The barrel folds back and latches on the butt stock for more compact transport.

Posted: 5/31/2016 12:54:21 AM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:

They were successful enough that FDR all but banned them, and Ronald Reagan banned new ones.

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Quoted:

Quoted: I'm sorry.....i just don't see the need for a full auto handgun. To me it's the ultimate spray and pray.

The discussion is historical in nature.. these guns were made 80+ years ago. You are a little late. They weren't successful.

They were successful enough that FDR all but banned them, and Ronald Reagan banned new ones.

I was very obviously referring to these 1911s. This is the 1911 forum. A 1911 topic. I am not talking about all machine pistols or their effectiveness, nor do I care. These full auto 1911s went nowhere. They were far from a purpose built machine pistol like a Skorpion.
The '34 NFA Act had nothing to do with the "success" of anything. They wanted to ban and restrict anything "gangster" related by adding a tax that a gangster would never pay anyway. Standard pistols and revolvers were originally included in the early drafts of the NFA act... NFA was largely knee jerk BS.

The Swartz conversion and others from Colt were even AFTER the '34 NFA Act BTW.

Posted: 5/31/2016 12:58:42 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I believe a select-fire 1911 with 50-round drum was devised to be used by the observer in early aircraft in WWI. It didn't take long before more powerful weapons were adapted for air use.

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Quoted:
I believe a select-fire 1911 with 50-round drum was devised to be used by the observer in early aircraft in WWI. It didn't take long before more powerful weapons were adapted for air use.

From the link in the OP (probably related):

In 1917 the Army’s the Chief of Ordnance asked for five otherwise standard 1911s to (we’re not making this up) convert to full-auto only and mount them under the wing of an airplane to see if they could be used to arm aircraft for the purpose of dogfighting. While no doubt a quick burst of .45ACP– especially from a battery of several guns– would have come in handy at short range, the Army shelved the idea. Interestingly enough, the Soviets tried the same thing with 88 PPSh-41 burp guns in WWII.

Posted: 6/3/2016 8:46:03 PM EDT

[#11]

Well, they were making it up as they went, so I guess some goofy things were suggested.

Posted: 6/4/2016 9:01:22 PM EDT

[#12]

George Patton had a full-auto 1911. He did a trigger job on his issued 1911 & took too much off of something & the entire mag went brrrrrrrrrrrrrp!

Legend has it he was damn near court martialed for it, certainly ruining a future WW2 general's career.

Posted: 6/4/2016 9:40:38 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:

From the link in the OP (probably related):

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I believe a select-fire 1911 with 50-round drum was devised to be used by the observer in early aircraft in WWI. It didn't take long before more powerful weapons were adapted for air use.

From the link in the OP (probably related):

In 1917 the Army’s the Chief of Ordnance asked for five otherwise standard 1911s to (we’re not making this up) convert to full-auto only and mount them under the wing of an airplane to see if they could be used to arm aircraft for the purpose of dogfighting. While no doubt a quick burst of .45ACP– especially from a battery of several guns– would have come in handy at short range, the Army shelved the idea. Interestingly enough, the Soviets tried the same thing with 88 PPSh-41 burp guns in WWII.

I wonder if they tried any alternatives to the standard magazines.

It seems like that arrangement would be good for one short burst and then nothing until you landed.

Posted: 6/5/2016 7:25:32 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
George Patton had a full-auto 1911. He did a trigger job on his issued 1911 & took too much off of something & the entire mag went brrrrrrrrrrrrrp!

Legend has it he was damn near court martialed for it, certainly ruining a future WW2 general's career.

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I don't know why that makes me laugh so hard. The movies of Patton just make it seem like a classic moment that needs to be done in a movie.

Posted: 6/5/2016 9:46:59 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
George Patton had a full-auto 1911. He did a trigger job on his issued 1911 & took too much off of something & the entire mag went brrrrrrrrrrrrrp!

Legend has it he was damn near court martialed for it, certainly ruining a future WW2 general's career.

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What is your source for this claim? I've read much and studied Patton since the late 1970's and have never seen anything about an incident such as this? Please share.

Posted: 6/5/2016 5:35:18 PM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:

What is your source for this claim? I've read much and studied Patton since the late 1970's and have never seen anything about an incident such as this? Please share.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
George Patton had a full-auto 1911. He did a trigger job on his issued 1911 & took too much off of something & the entire mag went brrrrrrrrrrrrrp!

Legend has it he was damn near court martialed for it, certainly ruining a future WW2 general's career.

What is your source for this claim? I've read much and studied Patton since the late 1970's and have never seen anything about an incident such as this? Please share.

I honestly don't recall. Patton was a 2nd LT at the time, IIRC? It may have been American Handgunner, it may have been NRA's American Rifleman. Keep in mind, official charges were never filed, thus there is no "official" record of the event.

Of course, it may be urban legend too. Who knows?