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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:05:40 PM EDT
[#1]
My LW Operator I use a 14lb recoil and a 19lb hammer spring.
I have nerve damage in my left hand and the 14lb spring makes it easier to rack the slide. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:16:54 PM EDT
[#2]
18lb recoil
23lb hammer |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:16:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
18lb recoil 23lb hammer |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:40:58 PM EDT
[#4]
16/23
Why are you thinking of dropping the hammer spring #? |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:57:27 PM EDT
[#5]
I use a Wolff 18.5lb variable power recoil spring and a 23lb hammer spring. The variable recoil spring unlocks quicker than a conventional spring; so a heavier load rated spring can be used to shoot lower or higher powered ammo. You might have to try several spring combinations to find what you are looking for. The 15lb to 18.5lb mainspring would be a good place to start. The 23lb hammer spring is standard but a 19lb spring could slightly improve the trigger pull but you could have misfires with some European ammunition.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:58:04 PM EDT
[#6]
lower the trigger pull weight. The wilson kit comes with 18.5# recoil and either a 18# or 19# hammer, can't remember which
I just ordered this: Wilson Combat Complete Spring Set |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 6:24:09 PM EDT
[#7]
16/23
A 19lb main might knock 2-3 ounces off your trigger pull. It will also make the gun more likely to inertia feed. Especially with a goofy variable weight recoil spring. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 8:13:49 PM EDT
[#8]
18.5/23.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 9:21:29 PM EDT
[#9]
14/23, with a squared-off firing pin stop. If you REALLY need an 18 lb. recoil spring, you need to address some feeding issues.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 11:54:02 PM EDT
[#10]
16/19 in my RO. I haven't had any problems with ignition yet. I have shot Winchester and CCI primers since the lighter mainspring and it has worked fine so far.
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Posted: 8/31/2015 6:49:51 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 14/23, with a squared-off firing pin stop. If you REALLY need an 18 lb. recoil spring, you need to address some feeding issues. Is that so....... |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 8:13:58 AM EDT
[#12]
16/19
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Posted: 8/31/2015 9:13:38 AM EDT
[#13]
14/23
Weird I know |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 12:38:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
14/23 Weird I know Not that weird. Once my 16 pounders start to settle in they're probably closer to 14 and I like it |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 1:28:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
14/23, with a squared-off firing pin stop. If you REALLY need an 18 lb. recoil spring, you need to address some feeding issues. I would tend to disagree at least a little... and would add that regardless of what spring weight the gun works with, the biggest benefit an 18.5# recoil spring has is an extended service life. And just for reference, I set 45ACP Government Models up with an 18.5# recoil spring and a 23# main spring. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 1:28:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not that weird. Once my 16 pounders start to settle in they're probably closer to 14 and I like it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
14/23 Weird I know Not that weird. Once my 16 pounders start to settle in they're probably closer to 14 and I like it I had a competent gunsmith tell me this weekend I would beat my 1911 to death using it. Been doing it for thousands of rounds, I don't plan on changing, so well see I like the recoil impulse better. Its faster back on target. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 1:31:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would tend to disagree at least a little... and would add that regardless of what spring weight the gun works with, the biggest benefit an 18.5# recoil spring has is an extended service life. And just for reference, I set 45ACP Government Models up with an 18.5# recoil spring and a 23# main spring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
14/23, with a squared-off firing pin stop. If you REALLY need an 18 lb. recoil spring, you need to address some feeding issues. I would tend to disagree at least a little... and would add that regardless of what spring weight the gun works with, the biggest benefit an 18.5# recoil spring has is an extended service life. And just for reference, I set 45ACP Government Models up with an 18.5# recoil spring and a 23# main spring. Id love to hear your insight on using a 14# spring. I use it as it runs the gun faster and I am faster on target doing so. I was told by a smith that I trust this weekend that I would beat the gun up using a 14# spring as well as the gun is likely out of time by using a 14# Ive been doing this for many K and haven't seen any issues |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 1:58:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryI had a competent gunsmith tell me this weekend I would beat my 1911 to death using it. Been doing it for thousands of rounds, I don't plan on changing, so well see I like the recoil impulse better. Its faster back on target. That's interesting. My experience is the lighter the spring I can get away with the less recoil I *feel*. A lot of guys are running very light recoil springs on gaming guns because the gun tracks flatter/recoils less. I may be exaggerating slightly here but if the slide would return to battery with a 1# spring, I'd run one and I don't think my gun would fall apart from doing it. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:01:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's interesting. My experience is the lighter the spring I can get away with the less recoil I *feel*. A lot of guys are running very light recoil springs on gaming guns because the gun tracks flatter/recoils less. I may be exaggerating slightly here but if the slide would return to battery with a 1# spring, I'd run one and I don't think my gun would fall apart from doing it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a competent gunsmith tell me this weekend I would beat my 1911 to death using it. Been doing it for thousands of rounds, I don't plan on changing, so well see I like the recoil impulse better. Its faster back on target. That's interesting. My experience is the lighter the spring I can get away with the less recoil I *feel*. A lot of guys are running very light recoil springs on gaming guns because the gun tracks flatter/recoils less. I may be exaggerating slightly here but if the slide would return to battery with a 1# spring, I'd run one and I don't think my gun would fall apart from doing it. Kinda my thinking, but I don't know all the ins and outs of how springs effect timing. I "feel" more recoil, but get less flip, if that makes sense. The recoil is more absorbed by my body, but the slide being a lighter spring seems to run faster and thus flips less |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:08:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryKinda my thinking, but I don't know all the ins and outs of how springs effect timing. I "feel" more recoil, but get less flip, if that makes sense. The recoil is more absorbed by my body, but the slide being a lighter spring seems to run faster and thus flips less I agree, I perceive more of a "push" with lighter springs vs. flip *and* dip with heavier ones. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:49:11 PM EDT
[#21]
16# recoil, 23# main. Most of what I shoot is reloads that aren't all that hot, I think they barely make major PF.
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Posted: 9/1/2015 12:32:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Id love to hear your insight on using a 14# spring. I use it as it runs the gun faster and I am faster on target doing so. I was told by a smith that I trust this weekend that I would beat the gun up using a 14# spring as well as the gun is likely out of time by using a 14# Ive been doing this for many K and haven't seen any issues Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
14/23, with a squared-off firing pin stop. If you REALLY need an 18 lb. recoil spring, you need to address some feeding issues. I would tend to disagree at least a little... and would add that regardless of what spring weight the gun works with, the biggest benefit an 18.5# recoil spring has is an extended service life. And just for reference, I set 45ACP Government Models up with an 18.5# recoil spring and a 23# main spring. Id love to hear your insight on using a 14# spring. I use it as it runs the gun faster and I am faster on target doing so. I was told by a smith that I trust this weekend that I would beat the gun up using a 14# spring as well as the gun is likely out of time by using a 14# Ive been doing this for many K and haven't seen any issues OK. 23/14, with the square-bottomed firing pin stop and extra-power magazine springs, gives me a smoothly-operating pistol that never misfeeds, and has less muzzle flip. That's about it, really. I tried heavier recoil springs when I was trying to cure an intermittent failure to feed. This led to me learning to correctly profile and tension an extractor. With all the stuff you can do to them (good and bad), 1911s and ARs are hobbies that verge on being careers. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 8:09:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Most of you guys are talking about your preferences with regard to how the recoil feels, but I always thought that the recoil spring to use would be the heaviest one that is still light enough to cycle the ammo you use dependably.
In other words, try a heavier recoil spring by increments until it won't cycle, then back off to the previous one (or maybe the one before that). The idea, I thought, was to find a reliable spring weight that works every time, but isn't so light as to pound the gun to death. Am I all wrong about that? |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 8:07:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of you guys are talking about your preferences with regard to how the recoil feels, but I always thought that the recoil spring to use would be the heaviest one that is still light enough to cycle the ammo you use dependably. In other words, try a heavier recoil spring by increments until it won't cycle, then back off to the previous one (or maybe the one before that). The idea, I thought, was to find a reliable spring weight that works every time, but isn't so light as to pound the gun to death. Am I all wrong about that? my comp 1911 that uses less than factory power ammo (200gr ld swc @ 860 fps) uses a 14 lb/19lb set up, no issues in thousands of rounds. Lighter recoil spring reduces muzzle flip but does increase the recoil in your hand. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 10:21:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of you guys are talking about your preferences with regard to how the recoil feels, but I always thought that the recoil spring to use would be the heaviest one that is still light enough to cycle the ammo you use dependably. In other words, try a heavier recoil spring by increments until it won't cycle, then back off to the previous one (or maybe the one before that). The idea, I thought, was to find a reliable spring weight that works every time, but isn't so light as to pound the gun to death. Am I all wrong about that? This is pretty much how it's done. Some guys like the 18# springs because they shoot constantly and a spring that heavy not only helps protect the frame, but it also helps the gun run dirty. I've found the 16# spring cycles everything from Federal Gold Match target loads up to 230 ball with 100% reliability. For carry guns I keep the hammer spring at 23#, but Ive gone as light as 16# without issues in my range guns. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 10:32:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Id love to hear your insight on using a 14# spring. I use it as it runs the gun faster and I am faster on target doing so. I was told by a smith that I trust this weekend that I would beat the gun up using a 14# spring as well as the gun is likely out of time by using a 14# Ive been doing this for many K and haven't seen any issues Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
14/23, with a squared-off firing pin stop. If you REALLY need an 18 lb. recoil spring, you need to address some feeding issues. I would tend to disagree at least a little... and would add that regardless of what spring weight the gun works with, the biggest benefit an 18.5# recoil spring has is an extended service life. And just for reference, I set 45ACP Government Models up with an 18.5# recoil spring and a 23# main spring. Id love to hear your insight on using a 14# spring. I use it as it runs the gun faster and I am faster on target doing so. I was told by a smith that I trust this weekend that I would beat the gun up using a 14# spring as well as the gun is likely out of time by using a 14# Ive been doing this for many K and haven't seen any issues Your gunsmith doesn't know how how a 1911 works. Springs have absolutely no effect on timing. Lighter recoil springs always equal a lighter felt recoil impulse. That's why there are no competition shooters running the heaviest springs they get away with. None. As far as the guy who builds $7K 1911s with an 18.5lb spring because they last longer... It blows my mind to install a sub-optimal $7 part to save 1 minute worth of work and $7 over the course of 5K rounds or so. Maybe it says more about the type of people who buy $7K handguns. IDK.... |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 11:22:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your gunsmith doesn't know how how a 1911 works. Springs have absolutely no effect on timing. Lighter recoil springs always equal a lighter felt recoil impulse. That's why there are no competition shooters running the heaviest springs they get away with. None. As far as the guy who builds $7K 1911s with an 18.5lb spring because they last longer... It blows my mind to install a sub-optimal $7 part to save 1 minute worth of work and $7 over the course of 5K rounds or so. Maybe it says more about the type of people who buy $7K handguns. IDK.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
14/23, with a squared-off firing pin stop. If you REALLY need an 18 lb. recoil spring, you need to address some feeding issues. I would tend to disagree at least a little... and would add that regardless of what spring weight the gun works with, the biggest benefit an 18.5# recoil spring has is an extended service life. And just for reference, I set 45ACP Government Models up with an 18.5# recoil spring and a 23# main spring. Id love to hear your insight on using a 14# spring. I use it as it runs the gun faster and I am faster on target doing so. I was told by a smith that I trust this weekend that I would beat the gun up using a 14# spring as well as the gun is likely out of time by using a 14# Ive been doing this for many K and haven't seen any issues Your gunsmith doesn't know how how a 1911 works. Springs have absolutely no effect on timing. Lighter recoil springs always equal a lighter felt recoil impulse. That's why there are no competition shooters running the heaviest springs they get away with. None. As far as the guy who builds $7K 1911s with an 18.5lb spring because they last longer... It blows my mind to install a sub-optimal $7 part to save 1 minute worth of work and $7 over the course of 5K rounds or so. Maybe it says more about the type of people who buy $7K handguns. IDK.... For guns running full power loads the 18.5 will extend the service life of the frame. Guys running reduced loads and comp'd guns often use reduced power springs. To each their own. Main thing is the gun working working with the loads of choice. This is the only test I know of that actually tests spring weights in any meaningful or scientific manner: http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/recoil-spring-rate-affects-timing/ If the springs affect cycle times, that affects timing, no? 
In my experience the lighter spring has a harder recoil impulse but cycles slower. I prefer the feel of an 18.5 and don't run any weak loads. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 11:45:39 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your gunsmith doesn't know how how a 1911 works. Springs have absolutely no effect on timing. Lighter recoil springs always equal a lighter felt recoil impulse. That's why there are no competition shooters running the heaviest springs they get away with. None. As far as the guy who builds $7K 1911s with an 18.5lb spring because they last longer... It blows my mind to install a sub-optimal $7 part to save 1 minute worth of work and $7 over the course of 5K rounds or so. Maybe it says more about the type of people who buy $7K handguns. IDK.... Sub-optimal or just not what you prefer? I actually don’t care what weight recoil spring is in the gun from a functional standpoint. The hammer spring is much more important when it comes to timing/delaying the unlocking of the pistol and any properly set-up 45ACP Government Model (shooting 230gr FMJ @ a nominal 850fps) can run on a 12# recoil spring or a 20# recoil spring. Longevity of the spring, perception of recoil, and personal choice can help determine preferences... kinda’ like why we have more than one flavor of ice cream. All that said, I’m a vanilla kind of guy and for years I shot and delivered Government Models with 16# recoil springs and 23# main springs... with no ill effect or tremendous benefit. But the balance between recoil spring weight and spring fatigue/longevity wasn't lost on me and this is something I take into account when delivering 1911s at any price... $7K, $8K, $9K, $10K, or more they all have to be delivered with detail, durability, and longevity in mind. Now if I were setting a gun up to shoot lighter 45ACP loads I would likely choose different springs, but based on how I test the guns as well as what my customers shoot I rest well knowing the guns can run for many thousands of rounds. 
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Posted: 9/2/2015 12:40:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistorySub-optimal or just not what you prefer? I actually don’t care what weight recoil spring is in the gun from a functional standpoint. The hammer spring is much more important when it comes to timing/delaying the unlocking of the pistol and any properly set-up 45ACP Government Model (shooting 230gr FMJ @ a nominal 850fps) can run on a 12# recoil spring or a 20# recoil spring. Longevity of the spring, perception of recoil, and personal choice can help determine preferences... kinda’ like why we have more than one flavor of ice cream. All that said, I’m a vanilla kind of guy and for years I shot and delivered Government Models with 16# recoil springs and 23# main springs... with no ill effect or tremendous benefit. But the balance between recoil spring weight and spring fatigue/longevity wasn't lost on me and this is something I take into account when delivering 1911s at any price... $7K, $8K, $9K, $10K, or more they all have to be delivered with detail, durability, and longevity in mind. Now if I were setting a gun up to shoot lighter 45ACP loads I would likely choose different springs, but based on how I test the guns as well as what my customers shoot I rest well knowing the guns can run for many thousands of rounds.
I am not an expert but have about 20 years of shooting and experimenting with 1911's and I totally agree. People get all wound up over spring weights almost as much as they do over guide rods. The 1911 will operate with a wide range of recoil spring weights so long as there isn't something else wrong with the gun. This is part of the 1911's longevity in the competition world, its recoil can be tuned to your preference. Or you can sacrifice lighter recoil and tune it to save spring life and operate under crappy environmental conditions. It's part of what makes the platform moar awesomer than others. So don't hate, appreciate :P |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 11:43:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Maybe I'll start running 23/0-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyis5h9MvUU |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 8:23:15 AM EDT
[#31]
The actual recoil of the weapon doesn't change. Your perception of it can change.
The mechanism will recoil in nearly the same amount of time regardless of springs (we're talking milliseconds here) Timing is a function of the mechanical relation of lugs, links, etc. The idea is to find a spring that works for YOU and YOUR GUN. There's trade off's either way you go. Search for something that gets you (re: your sights) back on target faster, something that is consistent and repeatable for you. It is possible to mitigate some things with shock-buffs. There's rough estimates out there of what works for various set ups, but only YOU can tell what is the best for YOU For example, I have two Limited .40 guns. Due to various conditions, one works better with a 14lb spring, the other with a 12lb spring. Explains better than I can |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 6:31:11 PM EDT
[#32]
16/23 in Springfield professional.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 9:25:19 PM EDT
[#33]
I don't get too hung up over spring weights. I use a #14/23 in my .38 Super, a #16/23 in my 9x23mm Winchester and .45 ACP, and a #20/25 in my Delta Elite.
All but the .38 Super have a small radius firing pin stop. I doubt that springs are very close to their nominal ratings. So, it is probably more appropriate to say I run "about" X/X. Then, add in a bit of wear, and it becomes a bit weaker, at least recoil springs seem to, it would probably take 100k rounds to change a main spring. As far as frame life goes, you could shoot with no spring at all, and see very little difference. Things like small radius firing pin stops, bull barrels, and compensators can all decrease the need for a heavy spring. In general, I prefer a lighter weight recoil spring. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 9:51:00 PM EDT
[#34]
16 recoil, 25 mainspring + flat bottom firing pin stop.
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Posted: 9/4/2015 3:03:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For guns running full power loads the 18.5 will extend the service life of the frame. Guys running reduced loads and comp'd guns often use reduced power springs. To each their own. Main thing is the gun working working with the loads of choice. This is the only test I know of that actually tests spring weights in any meaningful or scientific manner: http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/recoil-spring-rate-affects-timing/ If the springs affect cycle times, that affects timing, no?
In my experience the lighter spring has a harder recoil impulse but cycles slower. I prefer the feel of an 18.5 and don't run any weak loads. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
14/23, with a squared-off firing pin stop. If you REALLY need an 18 lb. recoil spring, you need to address some feeding issues. I would tend to disagree at least a little... and would add that regardless of what spring weight the gun works with, the biggest benefit an 18.5# recoil spring has is an extended service life. And just for reference, I set 45ACP Government Models up with an 18.5# recoil spring and a 23# main spring. Id love to hear your insight on using a 14# spring. I use it as it runs the gun faster and I am faster on target doing so. I was told by a smith that I trust this weekend that I would beat the gun up using a 14# spring as well as the gun is likely out of time by using a 14# Ive been doing this for many K and haven't seen any issues Your gunsmith doesn't know how how a 1911 works. Springs have absolutely no effect on timing. Lighter recoil springs always equal a lighter felt recoil impulse. That's why there are no competition shooters running the heaviest springs they get away with. None. As far as the guy who builds $7K 1911s with an 18.5lb spring because they last longer... It blows my mind to install a sub-optimal $7 part to save 1 minute worth of work and $7 over the course of 5K rounds or so. Maybe it says more about the type of people who buy $7K handguns. IDK.... For guns running full power loads the 18.5 will extend the service life of the frame. Guys running reduced loads and comp'd guns often use reduced power springs. To each their own. Main thing is the gun working working with the loads of choice. This is the only test I know of that actually tests spring weights in any meaningful or scientific manner: http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/recoil-spring-rate-affects-timing/ If the springs affect cycle times, that affects timing, no?
In my experience the lighter spring has a harder recoil impulse but cycles slower. I prefer the feel of an 18.5 and don't run any weak loads. Cycle time and timing are two completely different things.
A good modern 1911 frame will last for so long that increased life due to a stouter recoil spring would be impossible to prove. 1911 frames are not even a wear item as compared to anything else on the gun. |
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