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Posted: 8/22/2014 7:54:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've posted in Augee's MEU(SOC) .45/M45 thread, I would think you'd realize those are the pistols being talked about, not some "really old USGI pistols." As for the waiver, I think it was pretty clear that they waived the 300 MRBF (Mean Rounds Between Failure) reliability requirement. I wont get into the irony of the top photo you posted above. I apologize. I've not followed it as closely as you might think. That makes sense. I didn't know the jargon. Sorry about that. And you're right, I have no clue how much dough and time and effort were stuffed into either of those 1911 pistols I posted. I realize that. The second pic is KevinB and I don't fully recall what all he had done to his pistol. But for some reason my memory is telling me he talked about how he did the work himself. I could be totally wrong about that though. So yeah, the only point the photo's make are that guys that probably have a bit of a choice in the matter, still sometimes choose a 1911. Guys that might use them a bit more than most of us. Whatever the deal is with the new colts not making it to 300 rounds without failure, that is pretty wild. However, I'm not sure anyone of us could be sure that if brand X was given to them, it wouldn't be the same thing. If you feel Glocks would not have issues, that's cool. I'm just not so sure I'll agree. Especially now. It's cool. I wasn't sure if you weren't tracking or were being intentionally obtuse. Where I was going with the irony about the top photo is that that's a Delta guy - same unit where Vickers was a primary firearms instructor. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 7:58:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've posted in Augee's MEU(SOC) .45/M45 thread, I would think you'd realize those are the pistols being talked about, not some "really old USGI pistols." As for the waiver, I think it was pretty clear that they waived the 300 MRBF (Mean Rounds Between Failure) reliability requirement. I wont get into the irony of the top photo you posted above. I apologize. I've not followed it as closely as you might think. That makes sense. I didn't know the jargon. Sorry about that. And you're right, I have no clue how much dough and time and effort were stuffed into either of those 1911 pistols I posted. I realize that. The second pic is KevinB and I don't fully recall what all he had done to his pistol. But for some reason my memory is telling me he talked about how he did the work himself. I could be totally wrong about that though. So yeah, the only point the photo's make are that guys that probably have a bit of a choice in the matter, still sometimes choose a 1911. Guys that might use them a bit more than most of us. Whatever the deal is with the new colts not making it to 300 rounds without failure, that is pretty wild. However, I'm not sure anyone of us could be sure that if brand X was given to them, it wouldn't be the same thing. If you feel Glocks would not have issues, that's cool. I'm just not so sure I'll agree. Especially now. The whole deal with broken MEUSOC pistols and reliability waiver for the replacements sounds like a real fiasco. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 8:11:08 PM EDT
[#3]
I think they should all just go back to some good double action revolvers.
 Of course they'd probably all break too. Or Smith's would lock up on the stupid lock.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 8:14:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it. None of my Colts have even needed tuning, even thousands of rounds later. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 8:15:50 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of my Colts have even needed tuning, even thousands of rounds later. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it. None of my Colts have even needed tuning, even thousands of rounds later. None of my Colts worked when I got 'em. Welcome to the edges of the bell curve. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 9:37:08 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 8/23/2014 4:32:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryYa right, because glocks are perfect and any malfunction is operator error 
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Posted: 8/23/2014 5:48:00 AM EDT
[#8]
I love my 1911's and hell I'm thinking about building another one right now. However it is more of a gunsmith's gun. It's not for the average joe that never cleans his gun. I'm not a Glock fan at all, however they are cheap and simple and easy to use and work well, so I'll tell a brand new shooter to start with a Glock 17 or 19 9mm. I feel 1911's are for more experienced shooters as they shoot a larger caliber .45acp round and require proper maintenance. Not to mention there's so many aftermarket parts for them, it's a gunsmith's dream pistol. If you love to tinker then the 1911 is awesome.
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Posted: 8/23/2014 8:29:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Jeff Cooper would not approve
clown |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 6:35:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think they should all just go back to some good double action revolvers. Of course they'd probably all break too. Or Smith's would lock up on the stupid lock. http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53438%3Enu%3D3235%3E392%3E252%3EWSNRCG%3D3238489%3B6%3A7%3A9nu0mrj |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 6:41:28 PM EDT
[#11]
I just like the pics. Plus I already covered WHY I posted them, if there had to be a reason. Not saying it was a good reason. Furthermore I normally wouldn't be posting as much but I was just getting over a wisdom tooth being pulled and laying low so part of it was boredom.
Sorry if I irritated you. I was looking at his pics and trying to figure out what brand he had. That's not a Para is it? I think he did a post about it a long long time ago. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 7:01:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very insightful and well stated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Back before Larry left Delta, he had done a big write up on TacticalForums regarding some head to head test he had done for the unit between glock and 1911's. His claim was that the Glock had higher failure rates especially in sand tests. Now he sings a different tune, and he touts Glocks are more reliable. It just so happens he is sponsored by Glock. He also spent some time bashing the M4 platform, just about the same time he was contracting with HK on their piston version of the M4. I remember him claiming any AR platform that isnt HK is junk. Now that he is sponsored by DD, he doesnt put down DI platforms. The fact that Larry has lots of 1911 experience doesnt mean he cant be a corporate shill. It just shows he understands business. If you watch his Tac TV show you will see it is primarily just about him shooting guns from his sponsors and touting how great they are. Its just business. Ive got dozens of 1911s, and been shooting them for 30 plus years. The only malfunctions I ever had was when I was new to reloading and hadnt been crimping properly. The only breakages ive had wew a firing pin stop on a colt, and a slide stop on a kimber. Those are bone stock factory guns. I have had problems with Sigs, Glocks, and M&P's more than any 1911s. Doesnt mean Id call them crap, or buggy. The real issue with 1911 problems is the fact their are dozens of manufacturers, each with "enhancements" or other changes from the platform and disparate levels of QA. Combine that with a massive list of magazine manufacturers and accessory providers. That is a lot of variance stacking possible. Glock and most others dont have a similar problem or at least not to the same degree. With more receiver, barrel, and accessory manufacturers for Glocks et al, you will most likely see similar issues after a time. Very insightful and well stated. No, he just later figured out if the Glock 21 had a grip plug, the outcome would likely have been much different. As he has directly told me. And Larry has ALWAYS been a fan of the 9mm Glocks. And there is a lot of flat out disinformation in that original Joe Blackie post attributing things to Larry that he flat-out never said. He has never dogged DI, he plainly and ALWAYS stated that unless you were running suppressed, sub 14.5 barrels or heavy full-auto fire, the H&K 416 was NOT necessary. As for how much Joe Blackie knows, Larry hasn't worked for Daniel Defense for like two years now. Glock was sponsoring him at one time but I am not sure if they still are. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 7:10:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just like the pics. Plus I already covered WHY I posted them, if there had to be a reason. Not saying it was a good reason. Furthermore I normally wouldn't be posting as much but I was just getting over a wisdom tooth being pulled and laying low so part of it was boredom. Sorry if I irritated you. I was looking at his pics and trying to figure out what brand he had. That's not a Para is it? I think he did a post about it a long long time ago. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 7:15:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, he just later figured out if the Glock 21 had a grip plug, the outcome would likely have been much different. As he has directly told me. And Larry has ALWAYS been a fan of the 9mm Glocks. And there is a lot of flat out disinformation in that original Joe Blackie post attributing things to Larry that he flat-out never said. He has never dogged DI, he plainly and ALWAYS stated that unless you were running suppressed, sub 14.5 barrels or heavy full-auto fire, the H&K 416 was NOT necessary. As for how much Joe Blackie knows, Larry hasn't worked for Daniel Defense for like two years now. Glock was sponsoring him at one time but I am not sure if they still are. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Back before Larry left Delta, he had done a big write up on TacticalForums regarding some head to head test he had done for the unit between glock and 1911's. His claim was that the Glock had higher failure rates especially in sand tests. Now he sings a different tune, and he touts Glocks are more reliable. It just so happens he is sponsored by Glock. He also spent some time bashing the M4 platform, just about the same time he was contracting with HK on their piston version of the M4. I remember him claiming any AR platform that isnt HK is junk. Now that he is sponsored by DD, he doesnt put down DI platforms. The fact that Larry has lots of 1911 experience doesnt mean he cant be a corporate shill. It just shows he understands business. If you watch his Tac TV show you will see it is primarily just about him shooting guns from his sponsors and touting how great they are. Its just business. Ive got dozens of 1911s, and been shooting them for 30 plus years. The only malfunctions I ever had was when I was new to reloading and hadnt been crimping properly. The only breakages ive had wew a firing pin stop on a colt, and a slide stop on a kimber. Those are bone stock factory guns. I have had problems with Sigs, Glocks, and M&P's more than any 1911s. Doesnt mean Id call them crap, or buggy. The real issue with 1911 problems is the fact their are dozens of manufacturers, each with "enhancements" or other changes from the platform and disparate levels of QA. Combine that with a massive list of magazine manufacturers and accessory providers. That is a lot of variance stacking possible. Glock and most others dont have a similar problem or at least not to the same degree. With more receiver, barrel, and accessory manufacturers for Glocks et al, you will most likely see similar issues after a time. Very insightful and well stated. No, he just later figured out if the Glock 21 had a grip plug, the outcome would likely have been much different. As he has directly told me. And Larry has ALWAYS been a fan of the 9mm Glocks. And there is a lot of flat out disinformation in that original Joe Blackie post attributing things to Larry that he flat-out never said. He has never dogged DI, he plainly and ALWAYS stated that unless you were running suppressed, sub 14.5 barrels or heavy full-auto fire, the H&K 416 was NOT necessary. As for how much Joe Blackie knows, Larry hasn't worked for Daniel Defense for like two years now. Glock was sponsoring him at one time but I am not sure if they still are. Can't trust a word out of his mouth! |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 3:52:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of my Colts worked when I got 'em. Welcome to the edges of the bell curve. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it. None of my Colts have even needed tuning, even thousands of rounds later. None of my Colts worked when I got 'em. Welcome to the edges of the bell curve. This is funny right here. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 4:20:23 AM EDT
[#16]
I quit reading after the first few paragraphs.
I've only owned two 1911's - both Colts - and they've both functioned near-flawlessly right out of the box. Granted, I inherited both and can't swear to what my late brother did to them. But, he was hardly rolling in dough, so I'm doubting he did a thing! The feed ramp's not polished on either one, so . . . Sure, you need to experiment with SD ammo, but who wouldn't do that with any SD-intended firearm?
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Posted: 8/24/2014 4:27:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Does Larry still build 1911's if you want?
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Posted: 8/24/2014 5:08:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does Larry still build 1911's if you want? From what I understand, he doesn't offer builds anymore (at least to the general public). He does mention his builds on his website (Vickers 1911s) but there is no place on the site to order one. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 6:21:31 AM EDT
[#19]
I've had bad experiences w/ Glocks, M&P's, SIG's, & 1911's... no more or greater than any other. I carry a 1911 every day and probably shoot around 10k rounds through three different 1911's every year. Not a ton of rounds, but enough to know I trust them and know they are 100% (otherwise I wouldn't own them). Classes, matches, etc.,
Saying a 2k 1911 needs 1k of work to run right out of the box is ridiculous... one of the dumber things I've read on the internet. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 6:43:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF does that mean?
Are you Asian? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I got my first 1911 this year (ATI Gi Enhanced). At around 300 I could not say no especially after watching hickok45 tear up some steel with it I figured it was a go. After waiting 2 weeks for palmetto to send it I finally got it in my hands and let me tell you this this is SOLID! No slide wiggle whatsoever. It is very very tight like a tiger :) Well I ordered some Chip McCormick mags (power plus i think) and hit up the range with some federal and bam Failure to feeds all day (got only 30 rds down range). I chalked it up to not enough oil and a maybe damaged recoil spring (bent it during first break down). I ordered a Wolff 18pd commander spring and oiled her up big time took her back to the range and through about 200rds with Zero hickups. Here is a pic of her. http://i.imgur.com/ewqVmXp.jpg WTF does that mean?
Are you Asian? http://youtu.be/gu31VyXlTzo Im getting to old :( |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 9:35:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of my Colts have even needed tuning, even thousands of rounds later. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it. None of my Colts have even needed tuning, even thousands of rounds later. I have a Star PD because my Combat Commander still choked after numerous visits to the gunsmith. On the flip side, I had a well-used Sistema that had the best trigger of any non-modified 1911 I ever had, and it fed everything. Anecdotal evidence and all that. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 12:28:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, no irritation, and you may have actually made a good point. I saw a build thread on that 1911 before, might have been on TOS, think it was a captured GI receiver with an STI slide. I'll post a link if I can find it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just like the pics. Plus I already covered WHY I posted them, if there had to be a reason. Not saying it was a good reason. Furthermore I normally wouldn't be posting as much but I was just getting over a wisdom tooth being pulled and laying low so part of it was boredom. Sorry if I irritated you. I was looking at his pics and trying to figure out what brand he had. That's not a Para is it? I think he did a post about it a long long time ago. Yeah, that sounds kind of familiar too. A mixmaster. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 4:36:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I understand, he doesn't offer builds anymore (at least to the general public). He does mention his builds on his website (Vickers 1911s) but there is no place on the site to order one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does Larry still build 1911's if you want? From what I understand, he doesn't offer builds anymore (at least to the general public). He does mention his builds on his website (Vickers 1911s) but there is no place on the site to order one. Why spend weeks building a $5K pistol when he makes double that for a 2-day class? |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 1:07:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why spend weeks building a $5K pistol when he makes double that for a 2-day class? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does Larry still build 1911's if you want? |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:30:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Put down the koolaid guys. Larry has "been there and done that". His 1911 builds are around $5000 and that is if he will do one for you. He knows more about the platform than any of you. Period. But he is also objective. Watch his show and follow his remarks and you see one of the reasons he shoots Glocks is because that is what the majority of his students shoot. Calling him fat and saying he is sponsored by Glock is irrelevant and saying he used to think this but now thinks that is also irelavent. Anyone who doesn't adjust his or her views after years and years of training and testing new guns and gear is simply putting on the blinders. Also Larry owns a lot of 1911's and is still buying them up. Speaking of sponsors...I guess you all missed his Wilson Combat commercials on TV. Carry on calling him fat and telling us how your Tisas is flawless after.....300 rounds This. I don't agree with everything LAV says, but I also put his comments into context with his experience. And he's right for the most part. He doesn't tell people not to buy 1911s. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:31:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF does that mean?
Are you Asian? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I got my first 1911 this year (ATI Gi Enhanced). At around 300 I could not say no especially after watching hickok45 tear up some steel with it I figured it was a go. After waiting 2 weeks for palmetto to send it I finally got it in my hands and let me tell you this this is SOLID! No slide wiggle whatsoever. It is very very tight like a tiger :) Well I ordered some Chip McCormick mags (power plus i think) and hit up the range with some federal and bam Failure to feeds all day (got only 30 rds down range). I chalked it up to not enough oil and a maybe damaged recoil spring (bent it during first break down). I ordered a Wolff 18pd commander spring and oiled her up big time took her back to the range and through about 200rds with Zero hickups. Here is a pic of her. http://i.imgur.com/ewqVmXp.jpg WTF does that mean?
Are you Asian? I think he was quoting Austin powers. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 7:35:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't care either way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does Larry still build 1911's if you want? I know, I was just guessing at his motivations for such and your post seemed appropriate to quote :D |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 2:38:20 PM EDT
[#28]
I just finished vickers 1911 class over the weekend. He has very strong opinions but wants a 1911 built right to his standards ( which are very high) through the course he pointed out very small but critical elements of the 1911 which many makers ignore in the effort to get "close enough" out the door and bank the money. What he basically said was that there are a few manufacturers that come real close to doing everything right but even those sometimes need tweaking. And while my standard or someone else's may be reliable enough for my weekly idpa match with my chosen ammo with a limited round count before careful cleaning.
Larry made it clear his standard is bet his life on it by his standards which are again very high. Meaning to take a base gun ( he said to not bother with any except colt and Springfield) and make his standard would take a lot of work and money but that based on production and engineering flaws there were many 1911's sold which simply can not be corrected to his standard. It was a great course and anyone who feels the 1911 is the alpha and omega should take his course and it will help you understand why it simply is no longer the case. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 2:43:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just finished vickers 1911 class over the weekend. He has very strong opinions but wants a 1911 built right to his standards ( which are very high) through the course he pointed out very small but critical elements of the 1911 which many makers ignore in the effort to get "close enough" out the door and bank the money. What he basically said was that there are a few manufacturers that come real close to doing everything right but even those sometimes need tweaking. And while my standard or someone else's may be reliable enough for my weekly idpa match with my chosen ammo with a limited round count before careful cleaning. Larry made it clear his standard is bet his life on it by his standards which are again very high. Meaning to take a base gun ( he said to not bother with any except colt and Springfield) and make his standard would take a lot of work and money but that based on production and engineering flaws there were many 1911's sold which simply can not be corrected to his standard. It was a great course and anyone who feels the 1911 is the alpha and omega should take his course and it will help you understand why it simply is no longer the case. of course he says that... he is selling a course and his services. that doesn't negate the fact he is very good at what he does, but i suspect any class he taught like that would have the same criticisms no matter the platform. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 2:51:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just finished vickers 1911 class over the weekend. He has very strong opinions but wants a 1911 built right to his standards ( which are very high) through the course he pointed out very small but critical elements of the 1911 which many makers ignore in the effort to get "close enough" out the door and bank the money. What he basically said was that there are a few manufacturers that come real close to doing everything right but even those sometimes need tweaking. And while my standard or someone else's may be reliable enough for my weekly idpa match with my chosen ammo with a limited round count before careful cleaning. Larry made it clear his standard is bet his life on it by his standards which are again very high. Meaning to take a base gun ( he said to not bother with any except colt and Springfield) and make his standard would take a lot of work and money but that based on production and engineering flaws there were many 1911's sold which simply can not be corrected to his standard. It was a great course and anyone who feels the 1911 is the alpha and omega should take his course and it will help you understand why it simply is no longer the case. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:34:43 PM EDT
[#31]
when Larry pays for my guns he can decide which one to get me, its just his job selling his opinions and products.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:48:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
of course he says that... he is selling a course and his services. that doesn't negate the fact he is very good at what he does, but i suspect any class he taught like that would have the same criticisms no matter the platform. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just finished vickers 1911 class over the weekend. He has very strong opinions but wants a 1911 built right to his standards ( which are very high) through the course he pointed out very small but critical elements of the 1911 which many makers ignore in the effort to get "close enough" out the door and bank the money. What he basically said was that there are a few manufacturers that come real close to doing everything right but even those sometimes need tweaking. And while my standard or someone else's may be reliable enough for my weekly idpa match with my chosen ammo with a limited round count before careful cleaning. Larry made it clear his standard is bet his life on it by his standards which are again very high. Meaning to take a base gun ( he said to not bother with any except colt and Springfield) and make his standard would take a lot of work and money but that based on production and engineering flaws there were many 1911's sold which simply can not be corrected to his standard. It was a great course and anyone who feels the 1911 is the alpha and omega should take his course and it will help you understand why it simply is no longer the case. of course he says that... he is selling a course and his services. that doesn't negate the fact he is very good at what he does, but i suspect any class he taught like that would have the same criticisms no matter the platform. I can understand the "bet his life on it," part, but come on, I'm sure the 1911 he carried in the service served him well, without his "magical touch." I can't wait until he comes out with a line of AR"s that will only meet his "High Standards," and make all others obsolete. He really is great at what he does and has done well for himself, but I'll make due with my factory Glocks and my personally tweaked Springfield 1911's. None of which give me any trouble, and none have more than a few hundred $'s that I chose to put into them. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:55:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can understand the "bet his life on it," part, but come on, I'm sure the 1911 he carried in the service served him well, without his "magical touch." I can't wait until he comes out with a line of AR"s that will only meet his "High Standards," and make all others obsolete. He really is great at what he does and has done well for himself, but I'll make due with my factory Glocks and my personally tweaked Springfield 1911's. None of which give me any trouble, and none have more than a few hundred $'s that I chose to put into them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just finished vickers 1911 class over the weekend. He has very strong opinions but wants a 1911 built right to his standards ( which are very high) through the course he pointed out very small but critical elements of the 1911 which many makers ignore in the effort to get "close enough" out the door and bank the money. What he basically said was that there are a few manufacturers that come real close to doing everything right but even those sometimes need tweaking. And while my standard or someone else's may be reliable enough for my weekly idpa match with my chosen ammo with a limited round count before careful cleaning. Larry made it clear his standard is bet his life on it by his standards which are again very high. Meaning to take a base gun ( he said to not bother with any except colt and Springfield) and make his standard would take a lot of work and money but that based on production and engineering flaws there were many 1911's sold which simply can not be corrected to his standard. It was a great course and anyone who feels the 1911 is the alpha and omega should take his course and it will help you understand why it simply is no longer the case. of course he says that... he is selling a course and his services. that doesn't negate the fact he is very good at what he does, but i suspect any class he taught like that would have the same criticisms no matter the platform. I can understand the "bet his life on it," part, but come on, I'm sure the 1911 he carried in the service served him well, without his "magical touch." I can't wait until he comes out with a line of AR"s that will only meet his "High Standards," and make all others obsolete. He really is great at what he does and has done well for himself, but I'll make due with my factory Glocks and my personally tweaked Springfield 1911's. None of which give me any trouble, and none have more than a few hundred $'s that I chose to put into them. Hasn't he already pimped HK 416's in the past as the end all be all? |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 7:06:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just finished vickers 1911 class over the weekend. He has very strong opinions but wants a 1911 built right to his standards ( which are very high) through the course he pointed out very small but critical elements of the 1911 which many makers ignore in the effort to get "close enough" out the door and bank the money. What he basically said was that there are a few manufacturers that come real close to doing everything right but even those sometimes need tweaking. And while my standard or someone else's may be reliable enough for my weekly idpa match with my chosen ammo with a limited round count before careful cleaning. Larry made it clear his standard is bet his life on it by his standards which are again very high. Meaning to take a base gun ( he said to not bother with any except colt and Springfield) and make his standard would take a lot of work and money but that based on production and engineering flaws there were many 1911's sold which simply can not be corrected to his standard. It was a great course and anyone who feels the 1911 is the alpha and omega should take his course and it will help you understand why it simply is no longer the case. No pistol, made by man, is the alpha and omega. Including his own. I'm sure there are some brands and designs that decrease your chances of having stoppages. But for crying out loud, at some point you just have to use what you have. That's why people practice immediate action drills. There is no manufacture that can gaurantee that you won't have an issue, especially when you need it to work flawlessly. Murphy is too good at what he does. But yes, it's good to hedge your bets. But how we all do that isn't going to necessarily be directed by this ONE particular guy or that guy. You make your bed and you sleep in it. And there have been plenty of guys that made their bed with a 1911, whether by choice or issue, that woke up smiling because she performed the way she was supposed to. I'm sure same can be said about other pistols too. Including the one that everyone likes to hate, the infamous M9/92. And Glocks and insert many other guns. HiPower. And some others I'm sure. Glock does not have a corner on this market. Not saying it doesn't do it well though. And at the same time, stuff that is supposed to work sometimes fails. It's just life. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 7:41:02 PM EDT
[#35]
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 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1911 design is not for cheapskates or cry-babies, but real men can handle 'em... 1911 cheapskates just cry about casting their own bullets. 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:33:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got more confidence in my SA 1911 than any Glock I've ever owned. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just finished vickers 1911 class over the weekend. He has very strong opinions but wants a 1911 built right to his standards ( which are very high) through the course he pointed out very small but critical elements of the 1911 which many makers ignore in the effort to get "close enough" out the door and bank the money. What he basically said was that there are a few manufacturers that come real close to doing everything right but even those sometimes need tweaking. And while my standard or someone else's may be reliable enough for my weekly idpa match with my chosen ammo with a limited round count before careful cleaning. Larry made it clear his standard is bet his life on it by his standards which are again very high. Meaning to take a base gun ( he said to not bother with any except colt and Springfield) and make his standard would take a lot of work and money but that based on production and engineering flaws there were many 1911's sold which simply can not be corrected to his standard. It was a great course and anyone who feels the 1911 is the alpha and omega should take his course and it will help you understand why it simply is no longer the case. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:24:15 AM EDT
[#37]
Great. Thank you for the good post. I will be referring to this on my next 1911 buy.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:50:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Agree with jj even when optimally built anything can choke.
But wow is this a tough crowd! While I may have had the wool pulled over my eyes ( not) Larry gave me the distinct impression looking him straight in the eye not on you tube or tv, of being genuine and not some sell out just to make a few bucks peddling a product. Sure he may get some money sponsoring product but never once in the class did he say x brand is perfect buy that. |
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