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Posted: 6/19/2012 4:56:41 PM
Okay I would like to chime in on this topic. I was pretty new to the 1911 game and then met 1911smith. We worked together on a project with he and I switching off on the gun. I learned a great deal on this weapon platform working on it and with his guiding hand. The finished product was a beautiful Colt Commander 9mm slide on a new ramssport frame which I bobtailed on my own. The gun functions perfectly and has eaten every kind of round from 115 grain JHP to 147 grain lead SWC. Now it had to be tuned for the best trigger I have ever felt and it compares very nicely with my Dan Wesson Classic bobtail. Since then I have built two other 1911s and have always had his phone number for questions. I carry this Commander every day with no worries or issues about it. This after over 500 rounds through it to verify it's reliability. David (1911smith) gave me countless hours of help and labor on this gun and without him I would not be working on the build I am putting parts together for now. A true gentleman and a friend. I type this with bruised and bloody fingers from hours of checkering a friends 1911. Another skill I learned from him.
Is a 1911 reliable? In my opinion yes but that and a buck and a half will buy you a cup of coffee. Here is my baby the day it was finished. Yes I am a proud papa. By the way I carried a Glock on duty for years and still own a few. They are a good gun but I PREFER a 1911.  |
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Iam2taz
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Posted: 6/19/2012 7:45:28 PM
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The first clue would be that there are gunsmiths and then there are 1911 smiths. The second clue would be that every 1911 smith offers a reliability package. Yea, and there's one (me) who offers a comprehensive package to learn the user up a spell to use a perfectly good gun. It's probably about time some MOHTF members start offering up some opinion. Many of these guys weren't charged a dime or very little for amount of serviced renedered. Just because a 1911 smith offers up a package doesn't mean every 1911 is unreliable. I have taken many good, reliable working parts out of 1911s "just because" someone was waving cash in my face to do so. Even though I say. " Man you're wasting money." I find this funny as I was about to go nuts with my 1911s. Honestly, since I am having a hell of an honest streak today, it was mostly my own fault. Lack of proper cleaning, etc. (Hey, you don't know what you don't know.) A Colt and a RIA. Anyway, Dave took about 3 hours to show me some of the finer technicalities to taking care of one of these babes. So far, the next 800 rounds have been flawless. I'm not gonna say what he charged me, because I promised I wouldn't. It was well worth it. Yes. I carry a Colt or a VERY inexpensive RIA. NO PROBLEMS and NO WORRIES! Pebbles goes BAMM - BAMM and My Pony could win at Churchill Downs. (Just couldn't resist.) 
Thanks again Dave! |
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Posted: 6/19/2012 8:35:22 PM
Originally Posted By Iam2taz:
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The first clue would be that there are gunsmiths and then there are 1911 smiths. The second clue would be that every 1911 smith offers a reliability package. Yea, and there's one (me) who offers a comprehensive package to learn the user up a spell to use a perfectly good gun. It's probably about time some MOHTF members start offering up some opinion. Many of these guys weren't charged a dime or very little for amount of serviced renedered. Just because a 1911 smith offers up a package doesn't mean every 1911 is unreliable. I have taken many good, reliable working parts out of 1911s "just because" someone was waving cash in my face to do so. Even though I say. " Man you're wasting money." Yes. I carry a Colt or a VERY inexpensive RIA. NO PROBLEMS and NO WORRIES! Pebbles goes BAMM - BAMM and My Pony could win at Churchill Downs. (Just couldn't resist.)
Thanks again Dave! I carry my RIA every single day! (Of course I did before, but now I know its got some tough love in it ;)) |
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Posted: 6/19/2012 10:18:11 PM
Personally, I would not use a range gun as any sort of reliability benchmark. I have six 1911s, all from various manufacturers. Probably my best story about how reliable the 1911 is when my wife and I took one of the 3 day Costa courses. I had my Kimber Pro Carry II in .45, and my wife had her Kimber CDP in 9mm. Over the course of three days, we each fired over 2000 rounds. Not internet rounds, but actual, real bullets.We did not do a lot of cleaning between days, just basically a quick wipe down and squirt some oil into them. Over the three days, we suffered 0 malfunctions, which surprised even me, and surprised Costa as well, especially with the wife's 9mm.
Now these are not top of the line guns, and at that point the only thing that had been done to the 9mm was a set of thin profile grips. The .45 had an uprated ignition system, but most everything was bone stock. One thing I can say is that the Wilson Combat magazines made things much easier on me. They load easier, are "self cleaning" unless you drop them in some Florida sand. My other 1911s consist of a worn out 72 Combat Commander in .45 that shoots great, not so accurate, but goes bang every time. I also have a Chinese made Norinco full size 1911 that I have owned for years. Until I bought the Kimber, the Norinco was my daily carry weapon. It has had hundreds of rounds run through it, and until the ejector wore out I never had an issue with it. If you are really interested in getting a 1911 see if some friends have one they will let you shoot. I think you will be surprised at how comfortable they are. I'm sure if you have some ARFCOMers near you, you may be able to persuade them to go shooting with you. If you have any questions, please post them here. Lots of people here are always glad to help. |
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Festus_Hagen
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Posted: 6/19/2012 10:27:29 PM
Originally Posted By blkadder:
Over the course of three days, we each fired over 2000 rounds. Not internet rounds, but actual, real bullets. Nuh Uh !!!!! You did not !!!!! 
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eric10mm
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Posted: 6/19/2012 11:39:33 PM
Originally Posted By USMC2147: I would certainly like to see the data behind this claim. Seriously.There are more 1911's out there than probably any other pistol, which says a lot. The 1911 is undeniably an "experienced" design. But is it really that prevalent in the overall scene? |
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1911smith
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Posted: 6/20/2012 1:56:47 AM
[Last Edit: 6/20/2012 2:02:18 AM by 1911smith]
My carry used to be XD45C. Then one day the light comes on. I'm training with my 1911 and packin an XD.
So I start shooting my XD some. That didn't last long and went to carrying my "range" 1911. I sold the XD just to make sure it didn't get holstered for carry again. Is the 1911 that prevalent ?? Eric, you're in the right forum for that question cause most everyone here packs 1911 iron. I'm sure Glock is the "prevalent modern design" for carry. My daughter when she passes my carry criteria will carry a G26. Jonathan, my son carries a Sig 220 in .45acp and says the 1911 is not a realistic choice for carry. He's a real deal warrior weapons expert. He and I respectfully disagree. Here's my at home carry rig, 
Here's my work carry rig, 
Here's a back-up carry rig, 
OD Green G19 is carried small of back. Magazines are carried weak side, with 1911 carried strong side. Glock for me is a last line of defense weapon as it is carried. Work rig is carried as shown without back-up. This OP asks if 1911s are reliable ? I think the points been made a 1911 is as reliable as user is competent. Prevalent you ask ?? Obviously is to me and the others from MOHTF who carry 1911s with confidence, I watched Sunday with some amazement my 21 year old daughter stovepipe a Glock no ;less than 4 times and had trouble hitting 6" steel plates at 10 yards. Then with an hour of dry runs on mover take my open class 1911 and punch bullet holes all through an NRA target with zero malfunction from that 1911. She'll learn to operate that stock Glock and clean those plates with it before moving into her own competition 1911. 
Back to prevalence, answer me this. What hand gun has been chambered in more calibers than any other ?? I think what USMC2147 was saying is there have been more 1911s manufactured than any one make of pistol. I don't think he was saying 1911 are prevalent for carry over other makes. Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By USMC2147:
I would certainly like to see the data behind this claim. Seriously.
There are more 1911's out there than probably any other pistol, which says a lot. The 1911 is undeniably an "experienced" design. But is it really that prevalent in the overall scene? |
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Gregory_K
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Posted: 6/20/2012 7:02:24 AM
Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By USMC2147:
I would certainly like to see the data behind this claim. Seriously.
There are more 1911's out there than probably any other pistol, which says a lot. The 1911 is undeniably an "experienced" design. But is it really that prevalent in the overall scene? I have no numbers, but I would think the CZ and clones would be close if not more. |
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jtb0311
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Posted: 6/23/2012 2:37:39 AM
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Yea and Rock Islands have been great because they're only made by Rock Island. Anyone know what shooting sport is popular in Philippines ? No one wanted to touch this post, huh ? Anyone know why the low end pistols (like Rock Island) run straight from the box and feed almost anything you feed one ? Anyone know where the "talking point" tolerance stack is properly applied ?? Or do some here want to argue back and forth over shit that frankly baffles me ?? Where you guys get some of the shit you come up with. 
I do one on one classes. Guys around home refer to them as 1911smith's, 1911 class. It's been suggested I do these classes in groups. If I did parts of the message would get lost. Why ? Because the class is tailored to the individual. I call it "teachin a fella up"' It's mostly debunking myth, legend and innuendo. Something this OP has become full of. You're not the only one. Maybe you can help me figure out why my M1991A1 is absurdly accurate and reliable. Or my Kimber. |
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jtb0311
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Posted: 6/23/2012 2:42:54 AM
Originally Posted By USMC2147:
Originally Posted By Geohans:
1911s should be approached with caution if you are on a tight budget. Hilton and Larry Vickers have both stated that below the $1500 level, 1911s make great hobby guns, but marginal defense weapons. Of course Yam Hilton and Larry Vickers will say that, they have product to sell!!!! This argument is as old as Glock, and about as stupid as an argument can get. Can the 1911 be finicky? You bet it can especially when people tinker with them and don't know what they are doing. What 1911 products does Larry Vickers sell? I thought he only offered training, and a part of that, regarding the 1911, was that it was not suited for most people who weren't interested in being their own armorer. You are spreading myths just as bad as "1911s are sh*t out of the box, you have to spend a lot of money to make them work." |
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jtb0311
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Posted: 6/23/2012 2:49:02 AM
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The first clue would be that there are gunsmiths and then there are 1911 smiths. The second clue would be that every 1911 smith offers a reliability package. Yea, and there's one (me) who offers a comprehensive package to learn the user up a spell to use a perfectly good gun. It's probably about time some MOHTF members start offering up some opinion. Many of these guys weren't charged a dime or very little for amount of serviced renedered. Just because a 1911 smith offers up a package doesn't mean every 1911 is unreliable. I have taken many good, reliable working parts out of 1911s "just because" someone was waving cash in my face to do so. Even though I say. " Man you're wasting money." What's your name? Do you have a website? I might be interested in sending a 1911 your way. |
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1911smith
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Posted: 6/23/2012 3:30:20 AM
I'm not accepting work at this time. Just passing along a few tips in reliability.
Sometime next year I will start accepting work. Maybe. I've got a real job with real income. All this gun stuff really gets in the way sometimes. It's a passion, what can I say but pass what I know on. |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 4:32:10 PM
Originally Posted By jtb0311:
Originally Posted By USMC2147:
Originally Posted By Geohans:
1911s should be approached with caution if you are on a tight budget. Hilton and Larry Vickers have both stated that below the $1500 level, 1911s make great hobby guns, but marginal defense weapons. Of course Yam Hilton and Larry Vickers will say that, they have product to sell!!!! This argument is as old as Glock, and about as stupid as an argument can get. Can the 1911 be finicky? You bet it can especially when people tinker with them and don't know what they are doing. What 1911 products does Larry Vickers sell? I thought he only offered training, and a part of that, regarding the 1911, was that it was not suited for most people who weren't interested in being their own armorer. You are spreading myths just as bad as "1911s are sh*t out of the box, you have to spend a lot of money to make them work." Larry Vickers has a class that he puts on several times a year to teach you how to build your own custom 1911. Granted it isn't so much a product as it is a service, but it damn sure isn't cheap. Larry Vickers has also put his name on a few 1911's from other manufacturers, built 1911's for "Key People" in the 1911 business (from his website). |
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Posted: 7/2/2012 4:44:05 PM
[Last Edit: 7/2/2012 4:48:49 PM by USMC2147]
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Back to prevalence, answer me this. What hand gun has been chambered in more calibers than any other ?? I think what USMC2147 was saying is there have been more 1911s manufactured than any one make of pistol. I don't think he was saying 1911 are prevalent for carry over other makes. Originally Posted By eric10mm:
Originally Posted By USMC2147:
I would certainly like to see the data behind this claim. Seriously.
There are more 1911's out there than probably any other pistol, which says a lot. The 1911 is undeniably an "experienced" design. But is it really that prevalent in the overall scene? That is exactly what I was saying. The 1911 (in it's many forms) has been around the block and carried all over the world in many different wars, yet it still gets some people who don't trust the platform. I have owned Glocks and don't deny that they have a great track record, they just don't do the trick for me. It wasn't a 1911 vs Glock for me like so many people like to try and compare the 2. I just don't see how people can discount over 100 years of service in the absolute worst conditions, and claim they are unreliable. |
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FluffyTheCat
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Posted: 7/2/2012 11:20:44 PM
Here is my recipe for the perfect low cost 1911. Buy one Norinco 1911 from Marstar for $350. Leave the slide assembly alone. Install the EGW magazine release assembly, a Brown extended thumb safety and the Cylinder and Slide Hammer set. For less than $700, you will have the perfect inexpensive, yet totally reliable 1911. |
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Rcd567
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Posted: 7/3/2012 12:59:43 AM
Back in the early 70's, long before several of you were born, I was introduced to the 1911 through the National Guard in my hometown. Dad new the Colonel or something, (a guy high up in the Guard) He got a bunch of us kids together and we were introduced to the GI version. Rattled like a beer can full of gravel. These things had seen action in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Guess what? They went boom each and every time you pulled the trigger. And at 10 yards were OK in the accuracy department. Several of the guys in the Guard brought in their personal pistols, many with adjustable sights. We burned through lots of government ammo on Saturday afternoons during the summers. We were taught how to disassemble, clean, reassemble, load, unload, and how to clear malfunctions. (most of the ammo we were using was from the 50's)
I gotta ask, if a bunch of snot nosed kids can learn to load, shoot, clean and maintain this pistol....is it really that difficult or for advanced shooters? Really? |
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Posted: 7/3/2012 3:04:45 PM
Originally Posted By Rcd567:
Back in the early 70's, long before several of you were born, I was introduced to the 1911 through the National Guard in my hometown. Dad new the Colonel or something, (a guy high up in the Guard) He got a bunch of us kids together and we were introduced to the GI version. Rattled like a beer can full of gravel. These things had seen action in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Guess what? They went boom each and every time you pulled the trigger. And at 10 yards were OK in the accuracy department. Several of the guys in the Guard brought in their personal pistols, many with adjustable sights. We burned through lots of government ammo on Saturday afternoons during the summers. We were taught how to disassemble, clean, reassemble, load, unload, and how to clear malfunctions. (most of the ammo we were using was from the 50's) I gotta ask, if a bunch of snot nosed kids can learn to load, shoot, clean and maintain this pistol....is it really that difficult or for advanced shooters? Really?    HA! Touche' |
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1911smith
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Posted: 7/3/2012 3:30:08 PM
Originally Posted By wrighteouskill:
Originally Posted By Rcd567:
Back in the early 70's, long before several of you were born, I was introduced to the 1911 through the National Guard in my hometown. Dad new the Colonel or something, (a guy high up in the Guard) He got a bunch of us kids together and we were introduced to the GI version. Rattled like a beer can full of gravel. These things had seen action in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Guess what? They went boom each and every time you pulled the trigger. And at 10 yards were OK in the accuracy department. Several of the guys in the Guard brought in their personal pistols, many with adjustable sights. We burned through lots of government ammo on Saturday afternoons during the summers. We were taught how to disassemble, clean, reassemble, load, unload, and how to clear malfunctions. (most of the ammo we were using was from the 50's) I gotta ask, if a bunch of snot nosed kids can learn to load, shoot, clean and maintain this pistol....is it really that difficult or for advanced shooters? Really? HA! Touche'The problem with this accounting both wrighteouskill and Rcd567. It glosses over 40 years of geometric changes with both 1911 and ammunition. A statement like this isn't as relevant today as it would have been " back in the day." |
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GunnyG
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Posted: 7/3/2012 5:23:56 PM
[Last Edit: 7/3/2012 6:26:04 PM by GunnyG]
Originally Posted By 1911smith: Originally Posted By wrighteouskill: Originally Posted By Rcd567: Back in the early 70's, long before several of you were born, I was introduced to the 1911 through the National Guard in my hometown. Dad new the Colonel or something, (a guy high up in the Guard) He got a bunch of us kids together and we were introduced to the GI version. Rattled like a beer can full of gravel. These things had seen action in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Guess what? They went boom each and every time you pulled the trigger. And at 10 yards were OK in the accuracy department. Several of the guys in the Guard brought in their personal pistols, many with adjustable sights. We burned through lots of government ammo on Saturday afternoons during the summers. We were taught how to disassemble, clean, reassemble, load, unload, and how to clear malfunctions. (most of the ammo we were using was from the 50's) I gotta ask, if a bunch of snot nosed kids can learn to load, shoot, clean and maintain this pistol....is it really that difficult or for advanced shooters? Really? HA! Touche'The problem with this accounting both wrighteouskill and Rcd567. It glosses over 40 years of geometric changes with both 1911 and ammunition. A statement like this isn't as relevant today as it would have been " back in the day." Yeah... you're right... what were we thinking? Today's kids call AAA if they get a flat, rather than changing it to the spare tire (and risk ruining a manicure...). Meanwhile, this should continue to be 100% reliable, because it predates all 40 years of possible geometric changes, ...(edited to add) BY 54 YEARS!:   |
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Grin
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Posted: 7/3/2012 5:44:08 PM
Originally Posted By GunnyG:
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Originally Posted By wrighteouskill:
Originally Posted By Rcd567:
Back in the early 70's, long before several of you were born, I was introduced to the 1911 through the National Guard in my hometown. Dad new the Colonel or something, (a guy high up in the Guard) He got a bunch of us kids together and we were introduced to the GI version. Rattled like a beer can full of gravel. These things had seen action in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Guess what? They went boom each and every time you pulled the trigger. And at 10 yards were OK in the accuracy department. Several of the guys in the Guard brought in their personal pistols, many with adjustable sights. We burned through lots of government ammo on Saturday afternoons during the summers. We were taught how to disassemble, clean, reassemble, load, unload, and how to clear malfunctions. (most of the ammo we were using was from the 50's) I gotta ask, if a bunch of snot nosed kids can learn to load, shoot, clean and maintain this pistol....is it really that difficult or for advanced shooters? Really? HA! Touche'The problem with this accounting both wrighteouskill and Rcd567. It glosses over 40 years of geometric changes with both 1911 and ammunition. A statement like this isn't as relevant today as it would have been " back in the day." Yeah... you're right... what were we thinking? Today's kids call AAA if they get a flat, rather than changing it to the spare tire (and risk ruining a manicure...). Meanwhile, this should continue to be 100% reliable, because it predates all 40 years of possible geometric changes: http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/DSC05869-1.jpg
Deer sweet Aimless that is a sexy 1911
And speaking of today's kids, I'm 22 and had a tire detread at high speed on Saturday, removed the rim, took it to my favorite mechanic so he could put a new tire on, took it home and put it back on. I don't call AAA  |
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GunnyG
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Posted: 7/3/2012 6:23:37 PM
Originally Posted By Grin: Originally Posted By GunnyG: Originally Posted By 1911smith: Originally Posted By wrighteouskill: Originally Posted By Rcd567: Back in the early 70's, long before several of you were born, I was introduced to the 1911 through the National Guard in my hometown. Dad new the Colonel or something, (a guy high up in the Guard) He got a bunch of us kids together and we were introduced to the GI version. Rattled like a beer can full of gravel. These things had seen action in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Guess what? They went boom each and every time you pulled the trigger. And at 10 yards were OK in the accuracy department. Several of the guys in the Guard brought in their personal pistols, many with adjustable sights. We burned through lots of government ammo on Saturday afternoons during the summers. We were taught how to disassemble, clean, reassemble, load, unload, and how to clear malfunctions. (most of the ammo we were using was from the 50's) I gotta ask, if a bunch of snot nosed kids can learn to load, shoot, clean and maintain this pistol....is it really that difficult or for advanced shooters? Really? HA! Touche'The problem with this accounting both wrighteouskill and Rcd567. It glosses over 40 years of geometric changes with both 1911 and ammunition. A statement like this isn't as relevant today as it would have been " back in the day." Yeah... you're right... what were we thinking? Today's kids call AAA if they get a flat, rather than changing it to the spare tire (and risk ruining a manicure...). Meanwhile, this should continue to be 100% reliable, because it predates all 40 years of possible geometric changes: http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc68/gunnyg_photos/Private/AR15/DSC05869-1.jpg Deer sweet Aimless that is a sexy 1911 And speaking of today's kids, I'm 22 and had a tire detread at high speed on Saturday, removed the rim, took it to my favorite mechanic so he could put a new tire on, took it home and put it back on. I don't call AAA 
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1911smith
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Posted: 7/3/2012 6:59:19 PM
Yea, I wouldn"t go there either GunnyG.
5 to 6 hours of working with Grin and he's capable of figuring out what works and what doesn't. Grin employs what works and stays away from what doesn't. My 1943 Essex\Colt internals don't look anything like my two XSE model Colts. Both XSE models took work to feed semi-wadcutters. That old 43" feeds anything you put in a magazine and internally defies todays logic of 1911 reliability. |
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GunnyG
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Posted: 7/3/2012 7:06:57 PM
Originally Posted By 1911smith: Yea, I wouldn"t go there either GunnyG. 5 to 6 hours of working with Grin and he's capable of figuring out what works and what doesn't. Grin employs what works and stays away from what doesn't. My 1943 Essex\Colt internals don't look anything like my two XSE model Colts. Both XSE models took work to feed semi-wadcutters. That old 43" feeds anything you put in a magazine and internally defies todays logic of 1911 reliability. We're sympatico... I'm sure he is, but that Colt from 1918 runs well enough as-is, so I won't be needing to let Grin do his particular brand of magic on it. |
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1911smith
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Posted: 7/3/2012 7:35:35 PM
Not sure I'm tracking you there.
What I meant or tried to say is this. Young Mr. Andrew knows what will work and won't. I wasn't implying Mr. Andrew is capable of working on your 1918, my 43 or his Turkish 1911. Andrew has enough to worry about finding shoes and true camouflage paint. These are things I can't help him with. As far as running a reliable 1911. Andrews been taught enough to feed his pistol what it likes and how routine maintenance is done. Not sure why you've said what you said. It's not just the kids who've gotten a plug and play mindset. It's all ages. You been to an IDPA match lately ?? |
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Grin
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Posted: 7/3/2012 7:47:56 PM
Mine likes the Hornady Critical Defense FTX loads
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