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 Aaron556 
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Joined: May 2009  OH, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2012 11:20:41 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT I have only held the Sig 1911 Scorpion in person, actually four of them. Of the four, one had a loose slide to frame fit and actually had tan Cerakote over-spray on the night sights (won't be buying that one!). Everything Sig makes seems hit or miss. How is S&W quality in 1911s? |
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Posted: 5/5/2012 11:25:30 PM
I have never handled an S&W, however, as a point, if there was over spray on the sights of a Cerakoted Sig, then it is NOT factory coated. All the ones I have seen, the sights are added after the parts are coated.
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/5/2012 11:41:15 PM
I'm a recent fan of the S&W E-Series. I currently have two - the basic (108482) and a TA (108411). I've had no performance issues with mine and found them to be quite accurate (see the What Would You Rather Have thread).
Hilton Yam did a 4-part writeup of an early E-Series (solid extractor pin and not Spirol pin). There was also a recent article on their Training Blog about the 1911 Extractor Test after a Sig TacOps he was testing failed the extractor test: "What about 1911s with external extractors?
This test is the Achilles' Heel of most 1911 external extractor setups.
The only external extractor setup that I have tried that will reliably
pass this test is the Smith and Wesson E-Series pistol, which uses the
wide Performance Center extractor and is optimally positioned in the
slide. Many 1911 external extractor designs do not optimally position
the extractor relative to the bore axis resulting in marginal extractor
function." Where are you in Ohio? If you're anywhere close to the Cleveland area, you are welcome to shoot my E-Series 1911's. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 12:07:14 AM
[Last Edit: 5/6/2012 12:07:56 AM by Aaron556]
Originally Posted By Engineer:
I'm a recent fan of the S&W E-Series. I currently have two - the basic (108482) and a TA (108411). I've had no performance issues with mine and found them to be quite accurate (see the What Would You Rather Have thread). Hilton Yam did a 4-part writeup of an early E-Series (solid extractor pin and not Spirol pin). There was also a recent article on their Training Blog about the 1911 Extractor Test after a Sig TacOps he was testing failed the extractor test: "What about 1911s with external extractors? This test is the Achilles' Heel of most 1911 external extractor setups. The only external extractor setup that I have tried that will reliably pass this test is the Smith and Wesson E-Series pistol, which uses the wide Performance Center extractor and is optimally positioned in the slide. Many 1911 external extractor designs do not optimally position the extractor relative to the bore axis resulting in marginal extractor function."
Where are you in Ohio? If you're anywhere close to the Cleveland area, you are welcome to shoot my E-Series 1911's. This E Series is looking better and better. I'm eyeing the 108409. I live near Cincinnati. How tight is the slide to frame fit? Are they hand fitted? Have you seen this video?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbpRUsJR6tU&feature=uploademail I guess the pin that holds the extractor in place can "walk out". Have you had this happen? |
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SGB
Tallahassee
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Posted: 5/6/2012 1:27:55 AM
I'd go with the E series Smith
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/6/2012 10:52:32 AM
Originally Posted By Aaron556: This E Series is looking better and better. I'm eyeing the 108409. I live near Cincinnati. How tight is the slide to frame fit? Are they hand fitted? Have you seen this video?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbpRUsJR6tU&feature=uploademail I guess the pin that holds the extractor in place can "walk out". Have you had this happen? The slide to frame fit is tight on all of mine as well as others I have handled. But my sample size is by no means statistically significant. I don't know about the hand-fitting so I can't comment on that. I've seen the video. S&W has since replaced the solid pin with a Spirol pin to keep it from walking. Here is what they look like now:  No issues with the current design. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 10:56:18 AM
Originally Posted By Engineer:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
This E Series is looking better and better. I'm eyeing the 108409. I live near Cincinnati. How tight is the slide to frame fit? Are they hand fitted? Have you seen this video?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbpRUsJR6tU&feature=uploademail I guess the pin that holds the extractor in place can "walk out". Have you had this happen? The slide to frame fit is tight on all of mine as well as others I have handled. But my sample size is by no means statistically significant. I don't know about the hand-fitting so I can't comment on that. I've seen the video. S&W has since replaced the solid pin with a Spirol pin to keep it from walking. Here is what they look like now: http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j88/Engineer303/arfcom/Spirol_Pin_800.jpg No issues with the current design. HELL of a picture. What kind of camera / flash / lens setup is that??? Also what is the wiggly metal on the lower right side of the slide? Is that where the serrations hit the bottom? |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:03:49 AM
[Last Edit: 5/6/2012 11:04:43 AM by Aaron556]
Originally Posted By Engineer:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
This E Series is looking better and better. I'm eyeing the 108409. I live near Cincinnati. How tight is the slide to frame fit? Are they hand fitted? Have you seen this video?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbpRUsJR6tU&feature=uploademail I guess the pin that holds the extractor in place can "walk out". Have you had this happen? The slide to frame fit is tight on all of mine as well as others I have handled. But my sample size is by no means statistically significant. I don't know about the hand-fitting so I can't comment on that. I've seen the video. S&W has since replaced the solid pin with a Spirol pin to keep it from walking. Here is what they look like now: http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j88/Engineer303/arfcom/Spirol_Pin_800.jpg No issues with the current design. Thanks for the pic! I just ordered the 108409 (all black 5" w/ rail). If mine happens to NOT have the Spirol pin, should I send it back to S&W? Also, did you replace all the springs as was recommended in Hilton Yam's article? |
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:10:45 AM
Originally Posted By phatmax: HELL of a picture. What kind of camera / flash / lens setup is that??? Also what is the wiggly metal on the lower right side of the slide? Is that where the serrations hit the bottom? Thanks! it's just a Canon G10 with built in flash and macro setting. I decided not to break out the 7D + softbox for the shot.  Yes, the "wiggly area" is where the serrations hit the bottom of the slide. |
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:13:50 AM
Originally Posted By Aaron556: Thanks for the pic! I just ordered the 108409 (all black 5" w/ rail). If mine happens to NOT have the Spirol pin, should I send it back to S&W? Also, did you replace all the springs as was recommended in Hilton Yam's article? Absolutely. And S&W will pick up shipping both ways. From my guns, it seems like Smith is selling them as fast as they are making them. The case collection dates were within 2-3 weeks of when I purchased the pistol. I have not replaced the springs yet. So far everything seems OK with mine. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:19:01 AM
Originally Posted By Engineer:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Thanks for the pic! I just ordered the 108409 (all black 5" w/ rail). If mine happens to NOT have the Spirol pin, should I send it back to S&W? Also, did you replace all the springs as was recommended in Hilton Yam's article? Absolutely. And S&W will pick up shipping both ways. From my guns, it seems like Smith is selling them as fast as they are making them. The case collection dates were within 2-3 weeks of when I purchased the pistol. I have not replaced the springs yet. So far everything seems OK with mine. Would I be a fool to replace the springs on a new gun as recommended? |
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:42:50 AM
Originally Posted By Aaron556: Would I be a fool to replace the springs on a new gun as recommended? There are worse things to spend $10 on... it's probably not necessary but if it puts you at ease, go for it. |
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MrSilverLining
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:57:48 AM
E is for Economy.
I'd say step up to a Sig 1911. I've read the hoopla about the Yam Extractor test and I don't really think it matters. If the gun extracts everytime and in a consistent manner, regardless of ammo, how exactly is it performing in a "marginal" manner? Furthermore, why on earth would I load 1 round, fire it without a magazine in the gun, then rinse and repeat 15 more times?  Talk about going out of ones way to prove a problem.
Buy the gun, shoot the shit out of it and enjoy it. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 2:01:47 PM
I am going to look at a Scorpion later. Don't know why, but I like the look.
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MTNmyMag
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Posted: 5/6/2012 2:05:16 PM
Originally Posted By MrSilverLining:
E is for Economy.
I'd say step up to a Sig 1911. I've read the hoopla about the Yam Extractor test and I don't really think it matters. If the gun extracts everytime and in a consistent manner, regardless of ammo, how exactly is it performing in a "marginal" manner? Furthermore, why on earth would I load 1 round, fire it without a magazine in the gun, then rinse and repeat 15 more times? Talk about going out of ones way to prove a problem.
Buy the gun, shoot the shit out of it and enjoy it. E is for Economy? Every S&W 1911 I have messed with has been better than the SIG 1911's if fit and finish |
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Alembic
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Posted: 5/6/2012 2:16:05 PM
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By MrSilverLining:
E is for Economy.
I'd say step up to a Sig 1911. I've read the hoopla about the Yam Extractor test and I don't really think it matters. If the gun extracts everytime and in a consistent manner, regardless of ammo, how exactly is it performing in a "marginal" manner? Furthermore, why on earth would I load 1 round, fire it without a magazine in the gun, then rinse and repeat 15 more times? Talk about going out of ones way to prove a problem.
Buy the gun, shoot the shit out of it and enjoy it. E is for Economy? Every S&W 1911 I have messed with has been better than the SIG 1911's if fit and finish He's pulling your leg, E is for Enhanced. I'm a fan and owner of both company's pistols but I'd go with the E Series. |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 4:40:27 PM
Originally Posted By Engineer:
Originally Posted By Aaron556:
Would I be a fool to replace the springs on a new gun as recommended? There are worse things to spend $10 on... it's probably not necessary but if it puts you at ease, go for it. Since this is my first 1911........could I change out the Recoil, Hammer, Firing Pin, and Plunger Tube springs or should I seek a gunsmith? |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 4:49:45 PM
I'd go with the SIG without even blinking. At this point in time, SIG has a solid hold on QA/QC for their 1911 line. Smif & Wessun, not so much. Also, pay attention to what you are getting for the money. With the SIG, you get a minimum amount of MIM parts. With the S&W, the pistol is chock full of em.
Since my Smith started breaking the shitty MIM parts as if on cue, I would only recommend them as a base pistol for complete rebuilds/customizations. |
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/6/2012 5:26:16 PM
Originally Posted By boricua9mm:
I'd go with the SIG without even blinking. At this point in time, SIG has a solid hold on QA/QC for their 1911 line. Smif & Wessun, not so much. Also, pay attention to what you are getting for the money. With the SIG, you get a minimum amount of MIM parts. With the S&W, the pistol is chock full of em. Since my Smith started breaking the shitty MIM parts as if on cue, I would only recommend them as a base pistol for complete rebuilds/customizations. The early Sig 1911s may have had zero to minimal MIM parts, but current Sig 1911s have MIM disconnector, slide stop, mag catch, grip safety, thumb safety, and firing pin stop. It's pretty much a fact of life for $1K 1911s these days. Nothing against Sig - I have a C3 and like it very much. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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MrSilverLining
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Posted: 5/6/2012 6:14:23 PM
Sig is using mostly MIM internals now? Is there a source for that info? To the best of my knowledge Sig has and continues to use the best ignition parts in a production 1911.
My buddy has an E series and while it's nice, I preferred the Sig, and it cost a bit more as well. |
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/6/2012 7:48:33 PM
Originally Posted By MrSilverLining: Sig is using mostly MIM internals now? Is there a source for that info? To the best of my knowledge Sig has and continues to use the best ignition parts in a production 1911. My buddy has an E series and while it's nice, I preferred the Sig, and it cost a bit more as well. custom2 works for Sig. Read the last post in this thread. |
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MrSilverLining
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Posted: 5/6/2012 10:32:11 PM
Originally Posted By Engineer:
Originally Posted By MrSilverLining:
Sig is using mostly MIM internals now? Is there a source for that info? To the best of my knowledge Sig has and continues to use the best ignition parts in a production 1911. My buddy has an E series and while it's nice, I preferred the Sig, and it cost a bit more as well. custom2 works for Sig. Read the last post in this thread. Good read, thanks. If I understand it correctly, other then the disco the rest of the parts are non MIM? |
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Posted: 5/6/2012 11:24:46 PM
I don't think you would go wrong with either one.
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MrSilverLining
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Posted: 5/7/2012 8:55:48 AM
Originally Posted By Jager247:
I don't think you would go wrong with either one. http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z334/jagertime247/cdba87ea.jpg http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z334/jagertime247/fb7fe3a7.jpg Thats a solid 1911 line up there! That E-series is a real "looker". |
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/7/2012 10:12:59 AM
Originally Posted By MrSilverLining:
Good read, thanks. If I understand it correctly, other then the disco the rest of the parts are non MIM? I believe so. But sounds like they are well made MIM parts. I've only replaced the MIM slide stop on my C3 with a 10-8 Performance one. In addition to being machined from bar stock, it has an angled lobe for easier reassembly. I have both Sig and S&W 1911's and I think you're statement applies no matter which one the OP gets "...shoot the shit out of it and enjoy it." |
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Engineer
Ragin' Asian
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Posted: 5/7/2012 10:13:30 AM
Originally Posted By Jager247:
I don't think you would go wrong with either one. http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z334/jagertime247/cdba87ea.jpg http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z334/jagertime247/fb7fe3a7.jpg Very nice! I have the same combo. |
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