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Posted: 7/10/2017 10:47:33 PM EDT
Well I notice EVERYONE worth something I see in videos on the Youtubes shoots with their trigger finger not on the trigger guard.
However I have always placed my index finger on front of the trigger guard. In fact this is exactly how my grip looks... 
If you attended my last thread it seems I have some issues to sort out with shrinking my groups and also I have a problem with shooting to the left. Not sure when I will get to go to the range next time to test it out but could this grip technique be causing my issue? My issue... This is at 15 feet or so 
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Posted: 7/10/2017 10:56:12 PM EDT
[#1]
That could potentially contribute to the low left.
Could be tensing the support hand pre-ignition and steering the gun leftward. I'd still look to trigger control first, but if you feel up to rebuilding your grip it probably wouldn't hurt. The best pistol shooter in the world, Eric Grauffel, shots with his finger hooked on the trigger guard. Sometimes miculek does too. But for most of us, I would not bother with it. |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 10:56:58 PM EDT
[#2]
That finger goes under the trigger guard. Not on it. You will pull the the left like that.
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Posted: 7/10/2017 10:58:32 PM EDT
[#3]
I have never heard it called by a name.
My opinion, it was a fad that started long ago with custom 1911 builders... and snowballed to the commercial handguns with "factory custom features". The fad went away, but it has continued as a standard feature on most pistols. |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 11:00:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Some people certainly shoot like that, but I've always found it quite uncomfortable and awkward. I don't think it would hurt anything for you to transition to a more tradition thumbs forward grip.
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Posted: 7/10/2017 11:04:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could be tensing the support hand pre-ignition and steering the gun leftward. |
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Posted: 7/10/2017 11:06:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Finger on the trigger guard is no longer trendy. But if you dig enough, you will see very accomplished shooters doing the same thing. It can contribute to going left or down because it is such a good way to control recoil and I know I used to pull with that finger a little.
I used to do the same thing, and although I like the recoil control and overall comfort, I have been taking that same finger and tucking it into the gap created just below my trigger finger in the web of my hand. Sort of poking it into my right hand and locking my grip a little. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 12:36:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Micelick <sp> uses this method.
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Posted: 7/11/2017 12:47:25 AM EDT
[#8]
The issue is what I call "sympathetic press" or "sympathetic squeeze". Your brain wants both hands to tighten simultaneously, which causes the left pointer finger to draw the pistol left/down while the trigger is pressed with the right.
It can be overcome with a lot of concentration and training, but you'd be WAY better off retraining your grip instead. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 8:51:31 AM EDT
[#9]
I use to use the grip when I first got into USPSA competition. For slow shooting I found it fairly accurate but in USPSA matches I found that as I speed up my follow up shots start drifting left. Shot a lot of Alpha/Left-Charlies until I moved my weak hand index finger. A lot more two-Alphas after that.
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Posted: 7/11/2017 8:53:00 AM EDT
[#10]
I shoot with a hooked finger on the trigger guard... when I started shooting USPSA style matches in 1982, there was no Internet nor many available instructor videos... I have relatively small hands, and using strong thumb on the safety of my 1911, with off hand thumb on top of it at 90degrees, I found that I could lock my wrists horizontally by hooking the trigger guard, and vertically by rotating my strong elbow upward, and did so for the next 35 years... I switched to the thumb forward grip when I switched to the Glock... starting in the shooting sports today offers you a greatly accelerated learning curve with the training aids available... Les L-747
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Posted: 7/11/2017 8:57:17 AM EDT
[#11]
The only bad part about using this method is you are scarfing 2/3s of that fingers gripping force to do nothing. I would suggest checking how Bob (Robert) Vogel grips his pistol. Roll your left hand in more pushing your thumb out further and bring the finger down under the trigger guard. It would resemble kind of like taking a grip on a AFG fore grip.
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:06:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Thanks guys, I'm glad I asked! Time to find a new grip...
This would explain why my revolver shooting is so much more on target over my semi auto. 
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Posted: 7/11/2017 11:07:37 AM EDT
[#13]
Seen a few older Master class USPSA shooters use that grip, Did not hurt the scores they put on paper and most said "I am to dam old to change".
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Posted: 7/11/2017 2:47:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seen a few older Master class USPSA shooters use that grip, Did not hurt the scores they put on paper and most said "I am to dam old to change". 
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:34:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Jerry Miculek
Lena Miculek 
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Posted: 7/11/2017 3:48:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Used to shoot like that. Then I added a weapon light. Then I had two different grips, then I went away from that.
Not a big deal. Like anything, if you can master it like the above competition shooters, more power to you. I found that it had a tendency to induce unwanted wandering of my groups. |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 5:06:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote History |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 7:14:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote History |
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Posted: 7/11/2017 10:00:33 PM EDT
[#19]
as Gregory_K commented... my Limited M card was earned with a single stack 1911 in .45 and hooked finger grip on the trigger guard....which was stippled... as a "super senior" I don't think changing now will make any difference...
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Posted: 7/11/2017 11:05:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never too old to change, till you're dead. Maybe they would have been Grand Masters had they changed. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 8:44:32 AM EDT
[#21]
I've never seen anyone shoot well like that.
You're either gripping with the bottom three fingers or the index finger. The index finger tries to pull the rest away from the grip and causes all sorts of low, low/left, and consistency issues. Old timers can learn a new grip and stance, but usually revert back to their old way as soon as they see improvement. Damndest thing, but they all do it. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 9:00:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll have to disagree with your statement, when I've been shooting Chapman Modified Weaver stance and weak hand index finger hooked on the front of the trigger guard for OVER FOUR DECADES I'd have to break a shit load of training and if the SHTF I'm pretty sure I'd revert to the way I've trained for decades. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Never too old to change, till you're dead. Maybe they would have been Grand Masters had they changed. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 11:07:19 AM EDT
[#23]
I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference, evidenced by the fact that people can shoot well using that grip. Some instructors take such a high hold with their support hand that their fingers really have nowhere else to go.
What it does do is lessen your ability to apply a good squeeze with the support hand fingers, which I feel is important to a good grip that keeps the gun from moving around in your hands. |
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Posted: 7/12/2017 11:22:08 PM EDT
[#24]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QRvO_1B5dfc
From the man himself. |
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Posted: 7/13/2017 3:46:06 PM EDT
[#25]
There is no one size fits all pistol grip technique. You have to find what works for you and your gun. I have a pistol that I finger hook to shoot good groups and others that I don't.
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Posted: 7/13/2017 4:18:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must dug pretty hard for the picture of Jerry, every other picture of him holding a handgun (revolver or not) he does not have his weak hand on the trigger guard. Maybe that was a lesson on how NOT to hold a handgun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must dug pretty hard for the picture of Jerry, every other picture of him holding a handgun (revolver or not) he does not have his weak hand on the trigger guard. Maybe that was a lesson on how NOT to hold a handgun. ETA: And as Beretta391 posted [youtube]https://youtu.be/QRvO_1B5dfc[/youtube] |
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Posted: 7/13/2017 7:56:12 PM EDT
[#27]
If I could knock out groups like that I wouldn't be looking to change a thing
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Posted: 7/14/2017 2:27:16 AM EDT
[#28]
I shoot better when I don't do that.
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Posted: 7/14/2017 7:57:39 AM EDT
[#29]
I don't shoot like that but, I also don't believe there is an "only one right way" to most things in life. I've tried that grip and it doesn't work well for me. That doesn't mean it can't work well for someone else.
OP, since you have been using that grip just try the more standard grip for a couple of thousand rounds and see what works best for you. Good luck! |
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Posted: 7/14/2017 10:24:11 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, he specifically states that he does that to take out the "high speed oscillation" when he grips the pistol tightly. ETA: And as Beretta391 posted  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://youtu.be/QRvO_1B5dfc
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Posted: 7/14/2017 11:08:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I could knock out groups like that I wouldn't be looking to change a thing at five yards? woof. |
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Posted: 7/14/2017 12:49:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Every single new pistol I've bought over the last 3 years I've shot just like that the very first outing with it; ie. CZ's, Commander 1911, S&W Model 625... Then I get them home and cleaned and have noticed the rear sight is drifted slightly to the left... every single factory pistol mentioned above no matter the brand. I then used an angle ruler on them in a vice and get the rear sights as dead centered as humanly possible. The following range visit, nearly every single shot splits the target in half at 12'oclock... This has been my experience as I started to think I was shooting a new pistol an inch or two to the left. It wasn't me, it was the factory sight setting(s)... YMMV, OP, but it's worth looking into to see if your rear sight is really centered.
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Posted: 7/14/2017 2:08:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does he know he's a revolver shooter... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No, he specifically states that he does that to take out the "high speed oscillation" when he grips the pistol tightly. ETA: And as Beretta391 posted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=https://youtu.be/QRvO_1B5dfcIt might be... uncomfortable
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Posted: 7/24/2017 3:56:16 PM EDT
[#34]
It is a European hold. I am one of Mas Ayoobs senior instructors and we do not allow our students to use that hold. What happens when you get tired is that your finger will begin pulling slightly to the left.
Look at Mas Ayoob's Crush Grip and use it. Dry Fire until your fingers bleed. Go to Mas's site massadayoobgroup.com. |
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