P320 full size with night sights for $500 OTD is hard to beat.

17 rounds + a spare mag in the nightstand is my go to HD gun.

My favorite handgun is my P226 Mk 25.  However, one of the first mods I did was put in the SRT.  I'm not sure why the SRT isn't standard, but if you like to work on guns at all it wasn't difficult to install.  The second thing I did was get a threaded barrel.  Even with the standard sights obscured by the can I am more accurate with my suppressed P226 than any of my other guns (HK, CZ, 1911, etc).

Every one Ive owned has gone back for one reason or another, sometimes more than once.  

Every time I've dealt with Sig CS, I told myself "never again".

I should have listened to myself the first time.

They shoot well, but I don't like the grips, especially on the polymer ones. They feel like they narrow towards the base.

Funny thing you say that. I called Sig for the first time yesterday and spoke with an Aaron and he was less than helpful. When I told him I had never owned a Sig but wanted to and asked if I could ask him some questions about 2 models his enthusiasm could have been graded on the same scale as a super model's fart. His reply was "Oh...uh...sure" I expressed the trigger difference I felt between the P229 and M11-A1 and he said the triggers were the same. I talked a little more with LITERALLY him being silent in an awkward way. It was so bad I thought he had hung up. I finally said ".......ok well I guess I'll just check out your website for more information" and he finally said something "Ok sir, do that. You have a good day" but I hung up on him before he could finish.

Yea, if that is a representation of their customer service...


CZ on the other hand, I asked if my P07 should have come with extra baseplates, the CSR said no they weren't doing that anymore but asked for my mailing address and how many I needed. 4 days later I received 2 100% free of charge!

This. I currently own only SIG's, but that's only because I shoot them better than other company's offerings. If I ever find something else I shoot better, I'll switch to that.

Tomac

I owned a SP2032 15 years ago in .357Sig (sold it 14 years ago).  I never got to like the huge disparity between the DA pull and SA pull.

Bought a P320C last weekend.  I like it very much. 

I like the Sig P2xx series, but I don't think they're worth the premium they charge. I recently compared a P226 Combat, P226 Legion, and M9A3 side by side. I bought the M9A3. I feel like the only thing I favored on the Sigs was the short reset trigger. I preferred the trigger pull in both DA & SA on the M9A3. The Beretta also had a nicer grip, mag release, and slide release. The Sig has the slide stop further back than most pistols, and right where I like to hold my thumb, which can cause the slide not to lock back on the last round. Sig also uses a thread protector that is larger than the barrel, so it has to be removed every time you field strip the weapon.

That is not to say the P226 isn't a fantastic pistol, I just prefer the Beretta. I suggest looking at a Beretta M9 (or M9A1/M9A3) if you're looking for a nice DA/SA pistol.

Beretta screams "It's still 1989 isn't it?" in the looks department. I greatly dislike Beretta's open barrel look.

Wanted to like Sig, carried a 229 for a bit and my dad had a 226. IMO they had mushy triggers and poor finish. That was 20yrs ago so things may have changed.

Had a P6, P229 and a used P226. I kinda miss the 226, the other two not so much. In a DA/SA I prefer the 92FS and CZ75 in that order. The P320 interests me though.

I have the "Signess" and own 3 P226 9mm, 1 P229 9mm, 1 P220 .45ACP, and a Sig Compact Stainless.

The recent awesome acquisition.

I've never bought one new, and the P-series gun all went to Sig for the AEP, SRT, and SSP. The Compact Stainless had the SSP.

All run great, and the P226 is a fantastic suppressor host. I'm even adding a P226 Combat this weekend.

I carry a Gen 4 G21 at work and would gladly trade that in for a P226.

I had to save years, to buy my 226 Tactical.

I am not sorry

KCode, you do understand the the M11-A1 is, in fact, just a P229, right?  I mentioned in my earlier post that SIG does some gimmicky marketing. The M11-A1 is one example. It is simply a P229 without a rail, some stampings/stickers, full slide serrations, and grips that say P228. I've always wondered if the "phospate coated internals" could make for a worse trigger.

Just buy a surplus/used/trade-in P226/229 to see if you like it. Drop the SRT in it and whatever grips you like.

Sound advice.

#1 most repeated comment on the internet!!

Mostly repeated on the internet by people who " heard it on the internet ".

It's true. I've been around enough samples to witness the QC decline. QC isn't defined just as "quality". You're forgetting the control part. There's been a significant increase in parts failures since they switched to Indian MIM construction (under Cohen) in 2004. Does that mean any random SIG P-series you pick up and use is likely to experience a failure? No it does not. It just means it's more likely than when they cast the parts and took greater care in their production.

Do you think the SEALs switched to the Glock 19 because they suddenly discovered its awesomeness after all these years? No. It takes larger logistical concerns than that to sway SOCOM-level acquisition and support.

Do you think its a coincidence that when SIG made such production changes, they silently continued to offer cast/machined parts to agency contract purchasers? They did not offer this option to civilian buyers, except LE agencies. It was not advertised. It's very difficult to even find a reference to the option. They were/are very tight-lipped about such things. I don't even know if it's still on the table. Anyway, it wasn't enough to keep NSWC Crane as a customer.

Pre-Cohen SIGs are, from a QC standpoint, a different ballgame. The whole company was reorganized since 2000. It was bought and reorganized. The "Swiss connection" aspect and old manufacturing/import concerns are basically dead. SAN became Swiss Arms, whose products are generally not available here. It's what remains of the real/best/old-school SIG Sauer.

The modern SIG keeps some importation going to shuffle some product around, and up until recently, to satisfy legacy US military contracts, which still called for meeting 1990's technical specs. They couldn't just sell the DoD M11-A1 pistols because they "looked similar". They actually had to satisfy the M11 TDP with real P228 pistols, for example. Their current product couldn't do it. As always, they'd sell the contract overruns on the civilian market. When those ran out, they pushed the M11-A1 like it was the same thing, or improved. That's marketing.

Bottom line, the older products were better.

I've owned a couple Sigs (250 & 226) I sold them and my Glocks for CZ. do yourself a favor and just get an SP-01 you'll forget all about Sig.

After seeing what I see at the range 2 or 3 times every week, I believe one of the biggest reasons that SIGs don't do so well on the internet is that most folks will be just as well served with a gun that costs far less than what SIGs go for, until they up their skills several notches.

But if you can wring the most out of your handgun, SIGs are actually inexpensive for what you get.

SIGs really shine as carry guns and at the range when in the hands of actual shooters,  but on the internet; not so much.

Yeah. That's actually the main reason NSWC dropped the P226 in favor of the Glock 19. They kept losing internet arguments and couldn't wring the most out of their weapons.

I have owned and shot a lot of Sigs.  I was down to just a Hammerli/Sig and was recently gifted a retired LE Sig 220 in .45ACP.  The 220 to me is the quintessential Sig to own, and at one time, I had three of them.  

The gun just runs and shoots, and is almost boring, because it needs absolutely nothing.  I did install some nice aluminum grips in order to trash the Hogues that were on it.  Factory 220 grips are unobtainium and the AL grips look stock to the average observer.  8 round stainless factory mags are a nice thing to have too.

Wow.

05ers

P220s are terrific pistols; I own 2, a Super Match and a Carry Equinox,  and both have been extraordinarily reliable,  extremely accurate and have proven very durable as well.

I like mine

This man understands.

The 320 is no different.

Big fan of the 226 SAO. But if you want DA/SA a standard 226 or MK25 would be my best bet. I currently have a 226 Combat, as well as a 226 SAO, and they've been very solid.

I like my PD trade-in 2tone 229R 9mm, cost me $350+tax at Surplus Ammo's local store. I mostly shoot it with a Sig 22 conversion and a suppressor.  

I had a M11A1 briefly, it was a very nice pistol, but just not for me. I prefer PD trade ins, no crying about wear and tear and they're cheap.

Attached File

I started with a 229 in .40.  Like it but couldnt get the SA/DA to ever really keep me accurate.  I'm a little better with Glocks or 1911s, which have more consistent triggers.

Having said that, I did buy a 228 ...

And my 229 did a 3 day class at Academi fine, was good probably 600 rounds before I needed to wipe it down.

I've had Sigs a long time ago. I could shoot them better than any other handgun. The only handgun I could shoot better was a Wilson Tactical Elite. It cost north of $3,000 ten years or so ago.

I am certainly not a hater of Sigs (now bring up expensive, jam-o-matic 1911s and watch how quickly I become one, from long and frustrating experience), but I certainly have found them to be overrated. If I assume we are talking about the DA/SA models, that is one of my biggest gripes with them, as handguns are hard enough to shoot consistently, and throwing two different trigger pulls into the mix makes it way worse, as far as I am concerned. I also just don't trust simply a long an heavy trigger pull to act as a safety. I much prefer either a positive "cocked-and-locked" safety like on the 1911, or a redundant system like found on M&Ps, Glocks, and XDs. 

If we are getting into their recent foray into striker-fired guns like the 320, don't even get me started. They are probably just fine pistols, but they don't do anything that the Glock, M&P, or XD haven't been doing for years, and they are too new to have the excellent track record of the other established types, especially the first of those I listed. I know that the Army picked the 320 over the Glock 17, but as an attorney who works in government contracting and defense acquisition, I can tell you what an infinitesimally small effect the actual comparative quality or performance of the short-listed products in competition actually has on selection. At that level it is all politics and lobbying, and the personal preferences of a few decisionmakers. Just look at the fiasco that cost taxpayers over $100 million and produced the M14, just to be replaced a few years later by the M16, when the government had the opportunity to pick up the AR-10 all along at less than 10% of the price. 

Finally, the biggest turnoff for me with Sigs is the cost. You can't tell me that one can make a perfectly serviceable, reliable, accurate, and light (lighter than any Sig) pistol for $400-600, and yet it makes sense to spend the cost of a high-quality, mil-spec AR on what amounts to a tool to fight your way to your rifle.

So a DA revolver is less safe than a Glock?

The DA/SA actually makes a great choice for a fighting gun.

I've retired all of my Glocks in favor of DA/SA semi autos. I find more pros in the DA/SA than in the striker fires.

+1

I've never understood the "two different trigger pulls" complaint. The trigger reset is the same after every shot. If you're following through properly, follow up shots should be intuitive. If you're letting go when the trigger resets and letting your finger come off the trigger, you're not following through properly.

You lost me here.  The complaints (which aren't from me) are from the first shot being double action and the second shot being single action.  That's got nothing to do with reset.   It is more difficult to shoot.  You have to practice more.  But that doesn't mean you can't be accurate with it.  However, it is harder to shoot true double action over striker.  I am a Beretta fan and have 2 M9's.  It is my favorite full sized handgun.  But DA/SA does take a bit more to master.  Well, just the DA part.  The SA part of a Beretta is about as nice as it gets.


KCode98, you really are missing out if you just ixnay Beretta's from your search.  But if you don't like the looks of the 92, you could look at the PX4.   Berettas have a reputation for being very accurate and I think there is good reason for it.  

Plus, even though you might not like the way a 92/M9 looks, they feel really good.  And that carries over to when you're shooting them.  They are easy to shoot well, if you can learn DA.

After you fire in DA, you release the trigger until it resets, and fire again. You do not release the trigger all the way out. This is true with SAO, DA/SA, and DAO pistols. With DA/SA pistols, the reset point does not change, so you always know where the pistol resets for follow up shots. Whether you started the first shot in SA or DA does not matter unless you are trying to force the trigger back to the original position, which is a bad technique.

This is true on a Glock too. After you fire a Glock you do not release the trigger all the way to the starting position, you only have to go about 1/3 the way back until the trigger resets and you fire again. So the length of pull on the first and second shots from a Glock are very different too. When I shoot one of my Berettas or Sig, I don't think about the DA trigger pull. I fire the weapon, follow through, and fire again. The reset and SA trigger are always the same, so the first trigger pull doesn't matter, for me anyway.

A Glock take up is a whole heck of a lot different then when you start to press a Double action trigger that is actually cocking a hammer.  Yes, a striker is being cocked partially on the Glock too, but if you don't see the difference between the two......   I'm not sure what  to tell you.  The weight difference between DA and SA on a Beretta or Sig, with a traditional DA/SA trigger, is much different than the slight difference in the first take up on a Glock.  

Furthermore, some people don't feel for the reset.  I actually don't anymore.  Every once in a while I would break a shot before I wanted to when feeling for the reset by putting a little too much pressure once it clicks, mostly on guns with lighter triggers..  Plus, I shoot DA revolvers more now and of course you HAVE to go all the way back out to reset of course.  Might not be how a tier 1 operator does it, but that's what I do and I feel it is the safer way to go, for me.   I think there is a chance if under stress it could be easy to break a shot when feeling for the reset.  Call it bad technique if you want, but there are obviously some guns you have to do this with anyways.  If you let the trigger all the way out in single action on a Beretta, it does NOT go back all the way out to where it originally started in Double action.  It stops at a different point. Hence, two different pulls that sometimes people have a difficult time with.  Which really just means they don't like the longer, heavier pull of double action.  Which is understandable.   I am not nearly as good one handed with  my Berettas, first pull, as I am 2 handed.  With a Glock, that longer first pull one handed isn't a factor.  

Another gun I have that doesn't even pay to try and do a reset is my Browning HiPower.  It's too vague to count on.  And I carry it sometimes.  So.....  I just don't feel for the reset any more because of the different guns.  I'm not claiming to be really fast either.  So.....


Plus, I don't mean to be a jerk or anything but your first statement is wrong about DAO.   You need to go all the way out to reset a DAO gun.  That's the whole reason why it's considered DAO.  Because it's working just like a double action revolver.  Or in the case of a Kahr, it doesn't reset until you go all the way out.

Very accurate. Da/sa isn’t for everyone, but those that like it – like it a lot. I’m one of those people.

I really liked my former 229, and plan on picking up another soon. I really like my current 226 stainless elite as well. The DA/SA trigger is a little wonky, but gets a lot easier with practice. The same could be said about striker triggers, in that they al require practice to master.

Also the 226 is one of the most tested and regarded pistols in existence. It's a bit heavier than modern polymers, if that bothers you consider the 2022 family that is criminally underrated. I really liked mine I just prefer the feel of the 22X series. If you have small hands consider the E2 grips and/or the short reach trigger. Also the short reset trigger is nice.

My faviote pistol is a mk25 with a SRT and piranha grips. I also love the m11a1. Well over 6k rounds and no issues so far. I did not like the stock grips as the felt to large and went to the hogue g10 grips and they fit perfectly, however the e2 are even slimmer and are one piece of that works for you. They are great guns, very accurate and reliable. The downsides is they are heavy, price is up there, and you have to get use to two trigger pulls on the DA/SA. Some don't like the dual trigger pulls but that's my preference so it's a plus for me.

That's because it's two different PULLS, not two different resets. No one is saying the reset is different, but the first two PULLS are different. Some people, like myself, don't like that.

I never had any problems with the DA/SA switchover. I prefer my guns that way, but I really really like my P220 DAK's trigger. So smooth and easy. It's really accurate, and I'm trying to get a P226 9mm DAK now. Not too many of them out there, but a few pop up once in a while, and hopefully, I can grab one of them soon.

Do you mean besides being actually modular, which was the point of the program?

Brought my 9mm P229 Legion to the range. It was unanimously chosen as the most favorite gun of the day. And we brought everything from a Beretta 92 to a S&W .500.

I've got a German SIG 228. I wanted to hate it, but the damn thing just hits everything I point it at fairly effortlessly. Its freakish. It's become my primary CCW, even though I despise it's existence.


Its actually a toss up with this one, which cost three times as much

I have the SP2022 and it's insanely comfortable. It's like it was designed for my hands.

I really like my P320; I just wish I could find a trigger shaped somewhere between the stock one and the Apex flat one.  But I really like the trigger pull.

Now, the damned Mosquito... it can't go through a full mag without fucking up.  But damn it, I'm going to get that thing to work one of these days...