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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:26:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Dammit
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:45:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Link  https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6Uhttps://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U Edit: Not sure why it's not linking the video properly. I can't get it to embed on here.  |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 3:54:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Link https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U
https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U Edit: Not sure why it's not linking the video properly. I can't get it to embed on here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuPOqDlaX6U
Thanks. LoL, not going to pay for basic forum functions. 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 4:16:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. LoL, not going to pay for basic forum functions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Link https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U
https://youtu.be/LuPOqDlaX6U Edit: Not sure why it's not linking the video properly. I can't get it to embed on here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuPOqDlaX6U
Thanks. LoL, not going to pay for basic forum functions. You could always pay to show your support for this forum... 
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Posted: 8/29/2016 4:20:27 PM EDT
[#5]
In before the haters act like Tim is shilling...
Those test results were very surprising, I would like to see a older German P226 in the same test. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 4:24:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Arex can thank Zastava for that performance
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Posted: 8/29/2016 4:33:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test.
The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 4:41:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. I enjoy your videos, and keep them coming. I actually own the Legion 226, and I enjoyed the torture test. No butthurt here. I would love to see you do a CZ SP01 Tactical torture test. Maybe even against the Canik (TriStar) P120 which is a CZ clone. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:02:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. I though it was a great video I would be curious to see how a short extractor P226 or even a old internal extractor model held up to the same test. Given that the P226 was the top contender against the M9 back in the 1984 Army field trials. I highly doubt it performed that poorly. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:07:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. Awesome video, very surprising! Where did those grips come from for the Arex? Are they from a Sig? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:13:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I though it was a great video I would be curious to see how a short extractor P226 or even a old internal extractor model held up to the same test. Given that the P226 was the top contender against the M9 back in the 1984 Army field trials. I highly doubt it performed that poorly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. I though it was a great video I would be curious to see how a short extractor P226 or even a old internal extractor model held up to the same test. Given that the P226 was the top contender against the M9 back in the 1984 Army field trials. I highly doubt it performed that poorly. I agree that the internal vs. external extractor may have had something to do with it. The PVD finish may have had something to do with it. Poor QC may have had something to do with it and another Legion may have passed with flying colors. It's really hard to say. But if it's a QC issue on a $1500 handgun, that's a pretty big problem IMHO. When you spend that kind of money, you expect the very best QC. At least I do. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:18:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Hey Tim, while we are on the subject. What was your impression of the Grayguns trigger the Legion series comes with?
How does it compare to a regular "short reach" trigger and SRT kit? |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:22:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Could it have something to do with the Legion being the top-shelf offering and therefore built to tighter tolerances? Would probably be more accurate when cleaned and lubed but a spec of sand in the right place would take it out of commission. This has me thinking about the AK vs. AR. One is more accurate the other is said to run longer in adverse conditions.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:27:18 PM EDT
[#14]
I wonder if the SRT parts and adjustable trigger on the Legion contributed to the malfunctions? Maybe there's not as much room for debris to escape the action.
I'd like to see a standard P226 (or MK25) do the same test. I'm not debating the results, but the only pistol I've had that has never malfunctioned was a mid-2000's manufactured P226. Even the Glocks I've owned have had a few malfunctions. I don't torture test my guns however. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:30:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. I've had a few Sigs in the past that simply wouldn't run unless they were lubricated well beyond what I would consider normal or typical for other types of handguns (1911, Glock, HK, CZ). Frankly I'm not surprised that introducing anything that adds friction to the slide and frame caused failures. In terms of lock back and stovepipes, I've seen those just from under lubrication. I've also seen plenty of Sigs that function fine regardless of lube and ran great. In short, I don't really have a point...other than I'm not surprised based on my limited exposure to Sigs. I sold my Legion SAO after Sig failed to acknowledge a slipping trigger bar that caused a creak in the pre-travel a problem, so when you have problems on the front end (quality of the guns they're putting out), on top of problems on the back end (failure to fix problems once discovered), its a recipe for disaster, and plays right into the stereotype of Sigs reputation woes over the past decade. Especially for a gun with a 1400 dollar MSRP. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:30:40 PM EDT
[#16]
I went over alot of pros and cons on sig vs cz sp-01 recently.
in the end,m I decided to go with a sp-01, because frankly for the money, the sig is no more reliable at all. In fact most people seem to say the CZ shoots better. Sig makes a fine gun. Too bad they over price them by about 35%. 'marketing' Now I want a Arex Zero-1 though not at 600 bones. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:31:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey Tim, while we are on the subject. What was your impression of the Grayguns trigger the Legion series comes with? How does it compare to a regular "short reach" trigger and SRT kit? I don't have all the different Sig's and associated triggers. I have an old German P226, a Mk25 and the Legion. The Legion fits my hand better, has a far better trigger, and shoots better i my hands than my other P226's. I really like the trigger on the Legion. Until this test, the only thing I can ding the Legion on is the frame gouging (look at the wear on the dust cover when the gun is field stripped) and the miniature slide stop (WTF?). When I first got the Legion I said to myself, "all P226's should be like this sans the slide stop". |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:35:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Sig makes eleventy billion products, it must be impossible to have consistent QC. Thus I'm not buying sig anything.
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:36:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could it have something to do with the Legion being the top-shelf offering and therefore built to tighter tolerances? Would probably be more accurate when cleaned and lubed but a spec of sand in the right place would take it out of commission. This has me thinking about the AK vs. AR. One is more accurate the other is said to run longer in adverse conditions. https://www.instagram.com/p/BJs6EIRAEph/?hl=en |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 5:45:21 PM EDT
[#20]
What guns have you found to do well in your torture tests?
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Posted: 8/29/2016 6:04:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Would you consider shooting the Sig more and retrying the test. It is new and like any gun they usually do not shine until you get some miles on them.
Also maybe grease the rails instead of CLP? Cool video! |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 6:42:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I enjoy your videos, and keep them coming. I actually own the Legion 226, and I enjoyed the torture test. No butthurt here. I would love to see you do a CZ SP01 Tactical torture test. Maybe even against the Canik (TriStar) P120 which is a CZ clone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. I enjoy your videos, and keep them coming. I actually own the Legion 226, and I enjoyed the torture test. No butthurt here. I would love to see you do a CZ SP01 Tactical torture test. Maybe even against the Canik (TriStar) P120 which is a CZ clone. As a recent buyer of both of those, I enjoyed the video and wouldn't mind seeing how the CZ holds up. |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 8:12:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't have all the different Sig's and associated triggers. I have an old German P226, a Mk25 and the Legion. The Legion fits my hand better, has a far better trigger, and shoots better i my hands than my other P226's. I really like the trigger on the Legion. Until this test, the only thing I can ding the Legion on is the frame gouging (look at the wear on the dust cover when the gun is field stripped) and the miniature slide stop (WTF?). When I first got the Legion I said to myself, "all P226's should be like this sans the slide stop". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey Tim, while we are on the subject. What was your impression of the Grayguns trigger the Legion series comes with? How does it compare to a regular "short reach" trigger and SRT kit? I don't have all the different Sig's and associated triggers. I have an old German P226, a Mk25 and the Legion. The Legion fits my hand better, has a far better trigger, and shoots better i my hands than my other P226's. I really like the trigger on the Legion. Until this test, the only thing I can ding the Legion on is the frame gouging (look at the wear on the dust cover when the gun is field stripped) and the miniature slide stop (WTF?). When I first got the Legion I said to myself, "all P226's should be like this sans the slide stop". Thats my favorite feature 
Ive cut a few standard p226 slide locks down |
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Posted: 8/29/2016 11:37:43 PM EDT
[#24]
I wonder if the Rex has a long continuous slide rail like the Sig?
I suspect the long continuous frame slide rail of the Sig, while beneficial to accuracy and slide to frame fit, cause it problems in being able to get rid of grit. A lot of the modern polymer guns have comparitively short slide rails on the front and back of the frame, which I would guess might be able to allow for the grit to escape. Very good objective testing Tim. I look forward to future tests. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 7:02:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Tim, do the AREX pistols and the Sig pistols share any internals or are they completely different?
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Posted: 8/30/2016 7:28:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Gosh, the SIG P226R is my carry piece, I carry this thing every time I leave the house! I am forced to keep it in a gun locker while I'm at work and use a Glock
 . I'd really like to see a video of different types of the P226. An old west german, a 90s version and one from 2005ish put through the same testing. To see if the tight tolerances of a new sig have anything to do with it?
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Posted: 8/30/2016 7:32:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:.
LoL, not going to pay for basic forum functions. Not tech related. - Maynard |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 7:36:32 AM EDT
[#28]
I would never buy a Legion after all the QC shit that customers have reported.
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Posted: 8/30/2016 7:38:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if the Rex has a long continuous slide rail like the Sig? yes, it does |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 7:55:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes, it does Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wonder if the Rex has a long continuous slide rail like the Sig? yes, it does Are the slide rails the same length? Does the Rex have a more loose fit between rails and slide allowing for debris to be pushed out? I enjoyed the test. Would like to see a GLock 19 and a HK USP go through the same test. I would imagine having short rails like they do would be a benefit. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 9:33:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a recent buyer of both of those, I enjoyed the video and wouldn't mind seeing how the CZ holds up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. I enjoy your videos, and keep them coming. I actually own the Legion 226, and I enjoyed the torture test. No butthurt here. I would love to see you do a CZ SP01 Tactical torture test. Maybe even against the Canik (TriStar) P120 which is a CZ clone. As a recent buyer of both of those, I enjoyed the video and wouldn't mind seeing how the CZ holds up. I'll add a +3 to the SP-01 versus CZ clone idea. I would love to see this. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 9:40:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll add a +3 to the SP-01 versus CZ clone idea. I would love to see this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. I enjoy your videos, and keep them coming. I actually own the Legion 226, and I enjoyed the torture test. No butthurt here. I would love to see you do a CZ SP01 Tactical torture test. Maybe even against the Canik (TriStar) P120 which is a CZ clone. As a recent buyer of both of those, I enjoyed the video and wouldn't mind seeing how the CZ holds up. I'll add a +3 to the SP-01 versus CZ clone idea. I would love to see this. Ill add a +3 as well. I enjoyed the Canik Vs. VP9 vid. Id love to see the CZ Vs. Cheaper clone vid. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 9:45:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, I expected the Sig to shine. I didn't know what to expect from the Rex Zero 1. Given the Rex bares more than a passing resemblance to the P226, I thought it would do ok but trusted the Sig to move effortlessly through the tests. When the Sig started acting up, I was surprised. I know even the most reliable gun in the world can malfunction if a spec of debris gets in the wrong spot so I cleaned it and gave it a second chance. The Rex didn't see a drop of lube, or so much as a cloth, throughout the entire day after the initial cleaning and lubing I gave both pistols before starting the test. The Sig simply couldn't keep up. To be fair, we had a test sample of (1) for each pistol tested. Would a different P226 fair better? Quite possibly. As I said at the end, I was in no way condemning the P226. Do I question the "to Hell and back reliability" claim? Yeah, I do at this point. I don't think it's any more reliable than other guns on the market and perhaps less reliable. It's hard to say from a sample set of one though and I admit that. We made every effort to keep the tests fair and, to be quite honest, modest in how much debris we exposed the guns to. We didn't bury them. We didn't pack them with stuff with the slides locked to the rear. We didn't drop the mags into the test material. We simply laid the guns in the different material, pushed it down as if perhaps you fell on the weapon in the field, picked it up and fired. No matter what you do, people will find fault in your methodology. We did the best we could come up with and now we will repeat it on a very wide variety of pistols every month. I have had this conversation many time on here. Speaking to the fact that any gun from any manufacture can fail, break, not cycle etc. yet the majority of fan boys for what ever gun is being discussed always look at me like there is a dick growing out of my forehead. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 10:47:52 AM EDT
[#34]
Well shit.
I still like mine! Runs 100% suppressed or unsuppressed for me so far. I haven't dropped it in the mud, and it stays pretty clean in my FAS1 safe behind the bedroom door. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 11:29:16 AM EDT
[#35]
In five years people are going to look back at the Legion schtick and laugh.
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:42:13 PM EDT
[#36]
In my defense, I couldn't care less about the whole "Legion" thing, although I do think the logo on the grips is pretty cool looking. The pistol DOES, however, feel GREAT in my hand. I lusted after an X5, but couldn't swing $2,500 for a 9mm, and then they quit making them anyhow. This has a few of the same touches, like the undercut, better grips, great sights, and sweet trigger, for half the money.
Regular 226's don't fit my hands very well, this might as well be a different gun. Sucks that that particular 226 failed so badly in the tests, maybe every 226 would, I don't know. I'm not knocking polymer pistols, but I do personally prefer shooting a metal framed handgun anymore, even for EDC. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:48:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Interesting, he will show up with this review but was no where to be found when the VP9 was reviewed...interesting indeed.
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Posted: 8/30/2016 1:58:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting, he will show up with this review but was no where to be found when the VP9 was reviewed...interesting indeed. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:09:36 PM EDT
[#39]
I noticed a lot of comments on the video about the "excessive wear" on my pistol that was visible when I field stripped it. Some were saying that's not right and my gun is defective.
I took a good look at it today while getting all the crud out of the gun and it does not seem to be any type of defect. First, the action on the gun is smooth as butter. Second, if you look at the polished spots on the frame you'll see the machining is such that there are two raised surfaces. I guess it could be argued these are manufacturing flaws, however they appear to be deliberate. There is no sign of corresponding wear on the slide, the finish is 100%. Here's the polished areas I'm talking about:  Here's a close-up with the camera at a slight angle. You can see the apparently deliberate rise in the surface of the frame rail.  This, coupled with the video on the Sig Legion site of the gun in their promo's showing a similar ejection pattern as my pistol when it was clean leads me to believe there's nothing overtly defective with my particular handgun. (Some said my gun was obviously defective because it wasn't throwing the spent cases into the next zip code). I do not believe my Legion is defective. What do you guys think? |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:10:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh please. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, he will show up with this review but was no where to be found when the VP9 was reviewed...interesting indeed. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:12:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for proving my point. Have a good day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Interesting, he will show up with this review but was no where to be found when the VP9 was reviewed...interesting indeed. I know trolls exist everywhere, but please try to troll the non-technical forums. To your point, I posted all over the internet about that video. If I missed a thread here, OMG, it's the end of the world and I'm a paid shill for X. Again, please go troll GD where such behavior is encouraged. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:19:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know trolls exist everywhere, but please try to troll the non-technical forums. To your point, I posted all over the internet about that video. If I missed a thread here, OMG, it's the end of the world and I'm a paid shill for X. Again, please go troll GD where such behavior is encouraged. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, he will show up with this review but was no where to be found when the VP9 was reviewed...interesting indeed. I know trolls exist everywhere, but please try to troll the non-technical forums. To your point, I posted all over the internet about that video. If I missed a thread here, OMG, it's the end of the world and I'm a paid shill for X. Again, please go troll GD where such behavior is encouraged. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:23:52 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have never accused you of being a shill, and it wasn't trolling. I made an observation, and you confirmed it for me. In Tech, this is rather important because if a review is questioned and is controversial, you will be no where to be found when hard questions are needing to be asked and answered...leading one to wonder about integrity of the reviewer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Interesting, he will show up with this review but was no where to be found when the VP9 was reviewed...interesting indeed. I know trolls exist everywhere, but please try to troll the non-technical forums. To your point, I posted all over the internet about that video. If I missed a thread here, OMG, it's the end of the world and I'm a paid shill for X. Again, please go troll GD where such behavior is encouraged. That is an absolute lie. Just because I don't spend every waking moment on a thread or forum you're posting to does not mean I'm dodging anything. I posted to countless forums and answered questions. You, sir, are simply trying to defame me. If you have a question, ask it vs. insulting me. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:24:34 PM EDT
[#44]
I am also leaving the computer for the day to go film. If I don't respond to your question immediately, it's not me dodging your question.
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:28:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am also leaving the computer for the day to go film. If I don't respond to your question immediately, it's not me dodging your question. Take care. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:28:36 PM EDT
[#46]
I grew up goose hunting with my dad's 1940's Browning Auto 5, it's a beautiful shotgun, like buttered ball bearings. If the wind picked up any sort of grit at all in the early winter, it was either a single shot, or a very problematic slow semi auto. Tight tolerances will do that.
I'm not HAPPY that a model of my 226 failed miserably, I thought it would have done better. I wouldn't expect most modern combat pistols to fail that quickly, however I would guess that any "tight" semi custom gun would fail miserably as well. 1911's, X5s, even revolvers maybe, I don't know, until I bought them and did the tests. In any case, thanks for taking the time to do these tests! Keeps me from having to dunk my most expensive handgun in the mud. 
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:29:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good luck with your filming. I've been long over it and already got what I was looking for. Take care. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am also leaving the computer for the day to go film. If I don't respond to your question immediately, it's not me dodging your question. Take care. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:38:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I grew up goose hunting with my dad's 1940's Browning Auto 5, it's a beautiful shotgun, like buttered ball bearings. If the wind picked up any sort of grit at all in the early winter, it was either a single shot, or a very problematic slow semi auto. Tight tolerances will do that. I'm not HAPPY that a model of my 226 failed miserably, I thought it would have done better. I wouldn't expect most modern combat pistols to fail that quickly, however I would guess that any "tight" semi custom gun would fail miserably as well. 1911's, X5s, even revolvers maybe, I don't know, until I bought them and did the tests. In any case, thanks for taking the time to do these tests! Keeps me from having to dunk my most expensive handgun in the mud. What's interesting is that the Legion I have isn't fit that tightly. It has plenty of movement in the slide to frame fit. The Arex is more tightly fit, at least my example. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:39:07 PM EDT
[#49]
The two most useful reviewer channels I've seen on the net are mac and mrgunsandgear.
Others dont really go into the technical. I thought this was another useful technical video. I dont think sigs are bad. In think they are over marketed and over priced for what you get. Mac and other vids helped me decide against an x95, and choose the 805 bren which has become my favorite rifle. I also "4th" on the sp-01 torture or vs test. I just bought a sp-01 myself. I chose it over the sig for many reasons, not the least of which is price, a flooded market, feel, and support. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 2:47:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's interesting is that the Legion I have isn't fit that tightly. It has plenty of movement in the slide to frame fit. The Arex is more tightly fit, at least my example. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I grew up goose hunting with my dad's 1940's Browning Auto 5, it's a beautiful shotgun, like buttered ball bearings. If the wind picked up any sort of grit at all in the early winter, it was either a single shot, or a very problematic slow semi auto. Tight tolerances will do that. I'm not HAPPY that a model of my 226 failed miserably, I thought it would have done better. I wouldn't expect most modern combat pistols to fail that quickly, however I would guess that any "tight" semi custom gun would fail miserably as well. 1911's, X5s, even revolvers maybe, I don't know, until I bought them and did the tests. In any case, thanks for taking the time to do these tests! Keeps me from having to dunk my most expensive handgun in the mud. What's interesting is that the Legion I have isn't fit that tightly. It has plenty of movement in the slide to frame fit. The Arex is more tightly fit, at least my example. Well maybe more goop got in the action then? I guess I didn't plan on my Legion being an "end of times" gun, more of an "I really enjoy shooting this" gun. Thanks again for all the testing! |
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