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Posted: 8/25/2016 11:15:26 PM EDT
[#1]
The Germans in WW2 used a lot of 32 ACP handguns. The Russians used 9mm Makarov. The 380 is plenty
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:19:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Did I read that right? A couple guys commented that if carrying .380 they would choose fmj over hollow point for more penetration?
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:37:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Germans in WW2 used a lot of 7.63x25 Mauser handguns. The Russians used 9mm Makarov. The 380 is plenty And if you do some research into the lethality\use of those handguns you will find most times they were not used much if any during these conflicts. Even now days the issued pistols to solider are rarely if ever used in combat the issued M9 pistols get more use on ranges than in battles. The handgun is a last ditch my primary weapon has shit the bed or I am dry on rifle ammo. At this point you are probably near being overrun or captured. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 12:21:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did I read that right? A couple guys commented that if carrying .380 they would choose fmj over hollow point for more penetration? Yes ...... While premium .380 JHP's reliable expand they also under penetrate. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 1:26:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes ...... While premium .380 JHP's reliable expand they also under penetrate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did I read that right? A couple guys commented that if carrying .380 they would choose fmj over hollow point for more penetration? Yes ...... While premium .380 JHP's reliable expand they also under penetrate. Interesting. Now I have more research to do. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 1:39:56 PM EDT
[#6]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_20/97960_Handgun_Ammo_Forum_FAQs.html .... good place to start.
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Posted: 8/26/2016 4:11:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Wild Bill Hickok made his reputation with 36 caliber cap and ball Colts. Very similar ballistics to a 380 ACP. Today's bullet technology makes the 380 much more lethal.
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Posted: 8/26/2016 4:13:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And if you do some research into the lethality\use of those handguns you will find most times they were not used much if any during these conflicts. Even now days the issued pistols to solider are rarely if ever used in combat the issued M9 pistols get more use on ranges than in battles. The handgun is a last ditch my primary weapon has shit the bed or I am dry on rifle ammo. At this point you are probably near being overrun or captured. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Germans in WW2 used a lot of 7.63x25 Mauser handguns. The Russians used 9mm Makarov. The 380 is plenty And if you do some research into the lethality\use of those handguns you will find most times they were not used much if any during these conflicts. Even now days the issued pistols to solider are rarely if ever used in combat the issued M9 pistols get more use on ranges than in battles. The handgun is a last ditch my primary weapon has shit the bed or I am dry on rifle ammo. At this point you are probably near being overrun or captured. They used a lot more .32 ACP AKA 7.65x17mmSR handguns than 7.63x25mm Mauser handguns.... |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 4:19:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did I read that right? A couple guys commented that if carrying .380 they would choose fmj over hollow point for more penetration? I carry a lcp when not carrying my g19. I only carry with fmjs. My g19 is loaded with 147 hst , as well as back up mags. Txl |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 4:30:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm. This. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 4:38:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They used a lot more .32 ACP AKA 7.65x17mmSR handguns than 7.63x25mm Mauser handguns.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Germans in WW2 used a lot of 7.63x25 Mauser handguns. The Russians used 9mm Makarov. The 380 is plenty And if you do some research into the lethality\use of those handguns you will find most times they were not used much if any during these conflicts. Even now days the issued pistols to solider are rarely if ever used in combat the issued M9 pistols get more use on ranges than in battles. The handgun is a last ditch my primary weapon has shit the bed or I am dry on rifle ammo. At this point you are probably near being overrun or captured. They used a lot more .32 ACP AKA 7.65x17mmSR handguns than 7.63x25mm Mauser handguns.... I know a lot of the police forces at the time in Germany used the 32ACP. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 4:53:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know a lot of the police forces at the time in Germany used the 32ACP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Germans in WW2 used a lot of 7.63x25 Mauser handguns. The Russians used 9mm Makarov. The 380 is plenty And if you do some research into the lethality\use of those handguns you will find most times they were not used much if any during these conflicts. Even now days the issued pistols to solider are rarely if ever used in combat the issued M9 pistols get more use on ranges than in battles. The handgun is a last ditch my primary weapon has shit the bed or I am dry on rifle ammo. At this point you are probably near being overrun or captured. They used a lot more .32 ACP AKA 7.65x17mmSR handguns than 7.63x25mm Mauser handguns.... I know a lot of the police forces at the time in Germany used the 32ACP. Yep, even into the 70s. I have a surplus Walther PP made in the 1960s that is marked for some German police agency Bremen Police. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 6:00:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_20/97960_Handgun_Ammo_Forum_FAQs.html .... good place to start. Thanks for the link |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 9:01:40 AM EDT
[#14]
380 LCP for when I can do no better, tucked in shirt & dress pants.
Otherwise I appendix IWB a Glock 19/23 + spare mag and either Glock 43/PM9 or LCP 380 as pocket option. 380 is lethal, but I do not think it optimal for quickly stopping an attacker and that is the reason for carrying a pistol. |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 12:36:29 PM EDT
[#15]
I love my 380 LCP for deep concealment and backup gun roles. I use it in a Sticky holster. It works very well both IWB and in the pocket. It's so easy to carry I often drop it in my pocket even when I'm carrying my Glock 19 on my hip. I would rather have the Glock 19 but there are a few occasions where it's just not possible.
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Posted: 8/27/2016 12:48:40 PM EDT
[#16]
The first thing you hear is "with today's ammo the 9mm is good to go". Wouldn't the 380 be the 9mm of yesteryear, or did the manufacturers just improve 9mm ammo?
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Posted: 8/27/2016 1:59:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Germans in WW2 used a lot of 32 ACP handguns. The Russians used 9mm Makarov 7.62x25mm Tokarev & 7.62x38mmR Nagant in the 2nd WW. The 380 is plenty |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 5:24:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Every time we have one of these "is XYZ caliber enough?" Type threads I always remember something an old timer once told me. He said, "If'n it ain't good enough for yah stand there and I'll shoot yah with it." He said he never had a taker even with a .22short
 . His point was something was better than nothing, but there are always better options than the smallest calibers. He was in the .380 and up crowd IIRC.
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Posted: 8/27/2016 6:40:56 PM EDT
[#19]
It worked for Archduke Ferdinand.
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Posted: 8/27/2016 7:02:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. Now I have more research to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did I read that right? A couple guys commented that if carrying .380 they would choose fmj over hollow point for more penetration? Yes ...... While premium .380 JHP's reliable expand they also under penetrate. Interesting. Now I have more research to do. The .380 is right on the cusp of FMJs going too deep, and JHPs not going deep enough. With .32s and lower, FMJ all the way. There are some JHPs that do a decent job, but I personally go for FMJs - seems like penetration is the important thing, expansion is just a nice extra. |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 10:08:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
iHowever, you will never find me at the theater, shopping mall, ect Amen, that's how I roll. |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 10:51:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
My wife saw my mnp body guard .380 and laughed. She said what kind of bad guy you going to stop with that lol Got me thinking how many of you guys feel comfortable that .380 will stop the threat? What if threat is wearing a thick carhardtt jacket etc? I guess I need to do some research on the .380 rd. Your wife is correct. You have a little girl's gun. There are very few if any .380 loads that meet the FBI minimum penetration requirement to do sufficient tissue damage. 9mm is best mm. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 12:41:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The .380 is right on the cusp of FMJs going too deep, and JHPs not going deep enough. With .32s and lower, FMJ all the way. There are some JHPs that do a decent job, but I personally go for FMJs - seems like penetration is the important thing, expansion is just a nice extra. For civilians, "over-penetration" is not an issue. It just means there's now two places the miscreant is bleeding out from. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 12:50:22 AM EDT
[#24]
That's the problem with larger guns. People don't carry them because they are heavy.
I carry a 9mm and or a 38 special. What do I carry most often? The 38 special because it is lighter. 380 has less penetrating power but you have more shots. You have an excuse to do some research and then buy some more guns :) |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 2:30:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For civilians, "over-penetration" is not an issue. It just means there's now two places the miscreant is bleeding out from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The .380 is right on the cusp of FMJs going too deep, and JHPs not going deep enough. With .32s and lower, FMJ all the way. There are some JHPs that do a decent job, but I personally go for FMJs - seems like penetration is the important thing, expansion is just a nice extra. For civilians, "over-penetration" is not an issue. It just means there's now two places the miscreant is bleeding out from. Yup. I want the round to punch all the way through. I want it to be able to break/punch through bone if at all possible, which is one reason I have a Tokarev. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 3:02:46 PM EDT
[#26]
With the older .355 JHP like the 88 grain Remington and 90 grain Sierra the hollow point has a tendency to plug and act like a FMJ. With hollow points like the XTP and the 380 velocities there usually limited expansion so there is a better chance of adequate penetration. If the hollow points do get plugged by clothing or barriers like dry wall the bullet will penetrate like a FMJ.
There was a shooting involving an armed robbery where the suspect took several Remington 380 88 grain JHP's from a Browning BDA. One of the first impacts was to the suspects forearm where he was holding a handgun. The suspect was on the floor pleading not to be shot anymore when the Officers arrived. The suspect took two shots at an angle through his abdomen and one through his thigh which were perforations. I think the round to the forearm exited near his elbow and the suspect was wearing a heavy coat and jeans as it was winter. I think the suspect had been drinking but I don't remember his B.A.C.. Just my humble opinion, first priority have a weapon on your person you can manipulate under stress. A full size 45 ACP does you no good if you don't have it when you need it. Shot placement is more critical than most other factors as long as bullet penetrates deep enough to do damage. Every situation is unique. A nearby homicide recently where an Ex boyfriend was spying on his Ex. Exboyfriend is discovered and shoots at the new boyfriend and misses. The Ex girlfriend's Dad is standing behind the storm door catches a round fired at new boyfriend and is hit by a 25 ACP in the chest. Dad expires before Medics arrives. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 4:28:46 PM EDT
[#27]
It'll hurt that's for sure. You can no doubt kill with it, plenty of people killed by 22's before. Is it my first choice, nope, but it's better than nothing. Still much better than the older .25acp and .32acp pocket guns. Personally with so many micro 9's on the the market I see no reason to go any smaller though. Not to mention 9mm is easier to find, more powerful, cheaper to shoot, ect. But yeah those micro 380's are nice and small and light and carry a little better in the pocket. I'm personally rocking the Rohrbaugh R9 9mm pistol for my pocket gun these days since it fits the bill perfectly I think. Of course part of me is also thinking rocking a slightly larger S&W Shield IWB might be a better option these days. Next thing you know I'll be back to my 1911 .45acp pistol, haha ;)
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Posted: 8/28/2016 5:09:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm. A Glock 43 is a .380 sized pistol with a 9mm round. Unless a person is recoil shy, is there a reason to carry a .380 now that size isn't an issue? |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 5:45:48 PM EDT
[#29]
I actually have a # of female customers who can't rack the slide on little 9x19mm pistols, the 43 included. A large 9x19mm or .380" becomes the answer, usually the .380" as often they don't want to lug a full sized service pistol around.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 7:49:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A Glock 43 is a .380 sized pistol with a 9mm round. Unless a person is recoil shy, is there a reason to carry a .380 now that size isn't an issue? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm. A Glock 43 is a .380 sized pistol with a 9mm round. Unless a person is recoil shy, is there a reason to carry a .380 now that size isn't an issue? I have to disagree a little here. I have the 42 and the 43 and for me the 42 fits a lot better in my pocket. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 8:16:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to disagree a little here. I have the 42 and the 43 and for me the 42 fits a lot better in my pocket. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm. A Glock 43 is a .380 sized pistol with a 9mm round. Unless a person is recoil shy, is there a reason to carry a .380 now that size isn't an issue? I have to disagree a little here. I have the 42 and the 43 and for me the 42 fits a lot better in my pocket. A 43 won't fit in my pocket and a 42 only does so without a holster. For me the 43 is an IWB holster gun, and at that point, I'm going with something that has more capacity. My slip in the pocket go anywhere or NPE gun is a P32. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 8:47:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A 43 won't fit in my pocket and a 42 only does so without a holster. For me the 43 is an IWB holster gun, and at that point, I'm going with something that has more capacity. My slip in the pocket go anywhere or NPE gun is a P32. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm. A Glock 43 is a .380 sized pistol with a 9mm round. Unless a person is recoil shy, is there a reason to carry a .380 now that size isn't an issue? I have to disagree a little here. I have the 42 and the 43 and for me the 42 fits a lot better in my pocket. A 43 won't fit in my pocket and a 42 only does so without a holster. For me the 43 is an IWB holster gun, and at that point, I'm going with something that has more capacity. My slip in the pocket go anywhere or NPE gun is a P32. On principle I won't carry a pistol without a holster. I once had a then-microscopic PPK .32 that disappeared on me in OWB, IWB, and pocket holsters but the Glock 43 does too and is better in every way I need it to be. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:32:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to disagree a little here. I have the 42 and the 43 and for me the 42 fits a lot better in my pocket. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm. A Glock 43 is a .380 sized pistol with a 9mm round. Unless a person is recoil shy, is there a reason to carry a .380 now that size isn't an issue? I have to disagree a little here. I have the 42 and the 43 and for me the 42 fits a lot better in my pocket. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 9:47:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, there is no way that they are even close to being the same size. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm. A Glock 43 is a .380 sized pistol with a 9mm round. Unless a person is recoil shy, is there a reason to carry a .380 now that size isn't an issue? I have to disagree a little here. I have the 42 and the 43 and for me the 42 fits a lot better in my pocket. Compare it to all the .380 offerings and it looks pretty good. I'd carry a 43 before I carried a Bersa .380 (except maybe the double stack one). I liked carrying a Makarov, too, I don't distinguish between the smallest and second smallest. Many pistols fall within a "similar enough" range so as to fall within the same class of concealment arms. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 10:00:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Compare it to all the .380 offerings and it looks pretty good. I'd carry a 43 before I carried a Bersa .380 (except maybe the double stack one). I liked carrying a Makarov, too, I don't distinguish between the smallest and second smallest. Many pistols fall within a "similar enough" range so as to fall within the same class of concealment arms. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm. A Glock 43 is a .380 sized pistol with a 9mm round. Unless a person is recoil shy, is there a reason to carry a .380 now that size isn't an issue? I have to disagree a little here. I have the 42 and the 43 and for me the 42 fits a lot better in my pocket. Compare it to all the .380 offerings and it looks pretty good. I'd carry a 43 before I carried a Bersa .380 (except maybe the double stack one). I liked carrying a Makarov, too, I don't distinguish between the smallest and second smallest. Many pistols fall within a "similar enough" range so as to fall within the same class of concealment arms. If I was a Glock guy I would still say it's two different sizes still plus the weight differences. 
But I am not a Glock guy. My pocket gun is a Mustang XSP and it is even lighter plus shorter in both length and height with the G42. I like that that all three of that makes it a drop in the pocket and forget about it all day. Easiest way to EDC all day and forgetting that it is on your body. Cannot do that with even the G42, let alone the G43. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 10:07:03 PM EDT
[#36]
After hearing Gary Roberts say that he's witnessed .380s stopped by teeth, I'm gonna pass on it.
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Posted: 8/28/2016 10:33:39 PM EDT
[#37]
The most important factor is shot placement.
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Posted: 8/28/2016 10:53:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For civilians, "over-penetration" is not an issue. It just means there's now two places the miscreant is bleeding out from. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The .380 is right on the cusp of FMJs going too deep, and JHPs not going deep enough. With .32s and lower, FMJ all the way. There are some JHPs that do a decent job, but I personally go for FMJs - seems like penetration is the important thing, expansion is just a nice extra. For civilians, "over-penetration" is not an issue. It just means there's now two places the miscreant is bleeding out from. Well to be fair, over-penetration is not an issue for anyone regardless, "civilian" or not. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 11:06:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well to be fair, over-penetration is not an issue for anyone regardless, "civilian" or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: The .380 is right on the cusp of FMJs going too deep, and JHPs not going deep enough. With .32s and lower, FMJ all the way. There are some JHPs that do a decent job, but I personally go for FMJs - seems like penetration is the important thing, expansion is just a nice extra. For civilians, "over-penetration" is not an issue. It just means there's now two places the miscreant is bleeding out from. Well to be fair, over-penetration is not an issue for anyone regardless, "civilian" or not. I would agree w/ you, but didn't see any gain in fighting that fight. |
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Posted: 8/28/2016 11:07:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After hearing Gary Roberts say that he's witnessed .380s stopped by teeth, I'm gonna pass on it. Regarding teeth, I've heard Kyle Defoor say the same thing about pistol AND carbine rounds. He mentioned cases overseas where teeth deflected 5.56 in his explanation of why the acceptable target was above the mouth (and preferably below the ridge of the eyebrow). The teeth may stop a few rounds of 380 (or 40gr 22LR minimag RN), but hopefully the other rounds are all going in the nose and eyes. |
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Posted: 8/30/2016 8:12:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Germans in WW2 used a lot of 32 ACP handguns. The Russians used 9mm Makarov 7.62x25mm Tokarev & 7.62x38mmR Nagant in the 2nd WW. The 380 is plenty |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 5:30:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7.62x25mm is a different ball game and Nazis shooting innocent victim in the back of the head or Russian officer shooting hesitating soldier it's totally different scenario Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: The Germans in WW2 used a lot of 32 ACP handguns. The Russians used 9mm Makarov 7.62x25mm Tokarev & 7.62x38mmR Nagant in the 2nd WW. The 380 is plenty Are you implying the x25 was never used in actual combat? Remember they had subguns chambered in this caliber as well. I disagree with the notion modern .380 is as effective as 9mm was 20 years ago. If someone really thinks a 90gr Gold Dot is as effective as 9BPLE for instance that's way off base IMO. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 5:46:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Is it enough, no.
Is it better than a .32ACP, yes. Is it better than a .25ACP ROFL yes. Is it better than a .22LR, yes. Other "better" calibers are out there sure, but you sometimes need or want something more compact. Depends on how you're using it. Are you using it as a "deep" carry pistol? If so, you're fine. If it's you're only carry pistol... I'd look into adding to your collection. IMO though the jump from .380 to 9mm doesn't warrant a new pistol. a jump from .380 to .45ACP or 10mm, now were talking about an increase that can justify a larger pistol and spending more $ on a new pistol. Point is, they are ultimately tools, use the right one, get a better result. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 8:59:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Not even a .45 is guaranteed to bring down a bad guy. I believe that just brandishing a weapon will send most street thugs running without ever having to fire a shot. A well placed shot with a .380 will do the job but that's probably easier said that done in the heat of confrontation. My philosophy is to carry the largest caliber you can control with confidence even if its a .22
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Posted: 8/31/2016 10:08:20 PM EDT
[#45]
My sister wants to buy a handgun for self defense at home and possible carry. She has done some shooting but she wants more practice before she decides on a specific gun and before she trusts herself to shoot under that sort of stress. I'm going to visit next month and I'm taking a selection of handguns for her to try. One of them is going to be my Glock 42. She is about 5'2 and 100 lbs soaking wet, she can handle a bigger gun, but concealing one much bigger would be a challenge for her.
I think she will probably like the 42 best of the guns I am bringing along, but the choice is hers. The important thing is she picks what works for her. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 10:21:29 PM EDT
[#46]
To put things simply, for self defense 380 is good to go, for a fire fight, no way in hell...
Also to add, a good friend of mine was highway patrol, took 3 rounds of 45ACP during a traffic stop, he barely made it but he made it and is alive and well now. He has said on the other hand one of his buddies was taken out by a single round of 32acp in a similar situation to his. Honestly with pistol rounds theres a fair amount of luck involved. And as far as 7.62x25 is concerned, it quite literally does everything the ignorant think 5.7x28 does but dosent... |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 2:24:49 AM EDT
[#47]
I mostly carry a 9mm Glock IWB when I'm out in the city for work drives but at my place in the sticks or on weekends in and around my small town i usually only carry a small pocketable .380.
In my reasrch the most effective .380 ammo are Underwood's loadings using Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator projectiles. Deep penetration and amazing (for a .380) tissue disruption for 38. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 4:59:39 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 9/2/2016 5:22:31 PM EDT
[#49]
I am pretty much a .45 guy when it comes to defense...but sometimes you have to go slimmer and downsize.....
When I am forced to do so, I give myself a tactical edge by increasing the amount of sheer class in my carry piece. I figure if I cannot disable my assailant...I will at least try to slay them with beauty:  |
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Posted: 9/3/2016 10:43:43 PM EDT
[#50]
NOPE, but 9mm IS!
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