My wife saw my mnp body guard .380 and laughed. She said what kind of bad guy you going to stop with that lol
   Got me thinking how many of you guys feel comfortable that .380 will stop the threat? What if threat is wearing a thick carhardtt jacket etc?  
   I guess I need to do some research on the .380 rd.

I carry a .380 and never gave it a second thought. Even a .22 is way better than nothing if it comes to protecting yourself.

,380 defensive ammo has improved enormously over the last couple decades.
Still, I always consider 9x19 the min.

I agree that it's better than nothing and shot placement etc. but if a guy has multiple guns and is only carrying the .380 for the comfort factor should he  consider sucking it up and carrying one of his or her larger guns?
   

Its a very good "get-off-me" gun.
Not good for interdictions.

Expect about 11 inches penetration with average clothing, and expansion to .43 to .46 caliber if using top-shelf expanding-bullet ammo.
Get a few more inches penetration at the expense of expansion if using FMJ instead.

There is no magic bullet.

But, almost any bullet that you put between the shirt pockets will tip the iniative.

No.

.380 is better that nothing but the smallest I carry is 9mm.

I am good fine with carrying my Bodyguard.

Front pocket carry it.

With the improvements in ammo it is better than it used to be but I still believe in 38Spec/9mm as the place proper SD guns start. I've gone from no way no how to - not for me but I won't rag on someone who chooses to carry one.

I pocket a lcp with CT daily. The 8rds in my pocket?  Yeah.. thats alot better then the 16rds of 45acp in my fnx tactical thats in my safe at home. I sure as heck dont wanna get shot by a 380. I am completely comfortable with a 380 over a pocket knife. Am I gonna grab that 380 at home in the moment of need over any thing else i have? Clearly not.

its a NICE B U G gun

There is a bit of ego and testosterone involved in these discussions.
Not saying everyone mind you, but it is not uncommon once you get past all that to have the major caliber advocates admit well , I don't carry every day or when I go to the gym or ....., be sound of weight size wardrobe and so on. If you can based on clothing activity lifestyle environment and so can carry a larger gun of course it is a good idea. But ( despite what many will say) there will be times ( wearing swim trunks at the pool while watching the kids, going to the fancy black tie event in that now a little snug beltless tux etc)  you can not carry the big gun. In that scenario the small pocket guns rule. I also agree no magic bullet -
Plenty of cases of people hit with multiple 45's that do not go down and 22 cal one shot stops

Count me in the "better then nothing but I still consider 9mm the minimum" group.

I've always lived by the rule of carrying the biggest gun you feel comfortable being able to conceal and can also be effective with. My girlfriend carries a glock 42 and I feel comfortable with that as she can shoot it consistently and doesn't leave it at home very often. My initial problems with concealed carry was my holster selection. I started out trying to carry at 4 o'clock IWB and was always paranoid that I was printing, especially if I was doing much moving around like bending over. I always seemed to leave it at home or in the truck. After I tried appendix carry and giving it a couple weeks to get over the slight discomfort I never leave it at home and don't even notice it honestly. It's in front of me so I don't worry about my shirt tail riding up, printing is no as big of an issue and I can carry a bigger gun. It's what worked for me. Try different carry positions, holsters, etc. Get comfortable. A 380 in your pocket is better than a 45 sitting at home though!

I will say .380 is good enough, with 90gr xtp loadings being the best compromise of decent expansion meets reliable penetration.

Personally, my carry rotation is all 9mm... but I wouldn't try to talk someone out of .380 if that is what they were comfortable carrying.

Ask Trayvon Martin if it's enough. Ask the guy that got shot by the old prick at the movies too. Placement trumps caliber ALL day long.

Trayvon was shot with a 9x19.  Kel-Tec PF-9 IIRC



That being said OP.  380 is way better than it used to be but there are too many good 9x19 options in the basically the same size to carry what is still considered a marginal caliber.

I pocket carry a DB380 in a Desantis Nemesis while I work.  Tucked shirt and ability to remove it easily if I have to make it an attractive option.  It's also cheap enough that I won't cry too much when it gets stolen out of my truck (again).  Out with the family, I carry a Delta Elite IWB or Sig 2022.  I have more confidence in the 9 and 10mm, but they are not practical during the work day.

Sidearms, all firearms, are tools.  Use the one best suited for the job.  There is rarely one all around solution.

Is .380 enough from a purely defensive standpoint? Sure

With that said, I would not want a .380 when someone starts shooting up the mall you happen to be shopping at.

It's all about weighing out risk factor vs comfort.  I often carry a S&W 442 during the summer when running around town, since it's so convenient to drop it in my pocket.  However, you will never find me at the theater, shopping mall, ect without my G19 and a reload.

This same topic was all the buzz about 9mm when .40 was king. Is 9mm enough? The answers were very simple "if you can't conceal more than a 9mm, then I guess it's okay..." Fast forward to today and ammo has improved and now 9mm is the golden standard. Give .380 time, it has already improved significantly from where it was a few years ago.

As for is it enough today? I would say so. Our goal as a concealed carrier is to stop a threat. If death is the product of stopping the threat, then so be It, but killing is not the goal, incapacitating is the goal, or in other words, stopping the threat. A .380 will stop most threats, just producing a gun and some menacing words is generally enough to make the average BG consider a different, less armed target.

It's laughable that guys who carry a G19 with 2 - 3 reloads think they are going to be heroes and stop a determined and well executed terrorist attack at the local Walmart. Your 9mm is no match for body armor and 5.56 or 7.62 by multiple targets. Take your 9mm and do like the rest of us and get the hell out of there and let LE do their job with bigger guns and better tactics.

If you can shoot your .380 well, you can make solid follow up shots and most importantly, can commit to carrying it every day, you are better off than 90% of the citizenry out there. Rock on.

The .380 can meet FBI standards with a very few select rounds.  Therefore I think if you are careful in your choice of ammo and pistol, it is acceptable.  I believe the same thing about .38 snubs.  

Acceptable does not mean optimum.  I CCW a Kahr PM9 almost all the time.  I feel better with a G19.  

Lets get this out on the table because it seems most everyone is missing the point....... PISTOL SUCK to begin with.  They are a compromise all around for size.  Any handgun in a service caliber is NOT a man stopper especially with just 1 round unless you are able to land CNS hits.  9mm Kurz is not a terrible caliber it does have some penetration short falls but it is far better than 32 or 25 caliber pistols.

If you feel that 9mm Kurz is not enough move up to 9mm Para so many good options exist in the single stack market and they are really not that much bigger than 9mm Kurz pistols.  Options are always a good thing when you can carry something bigger do so.  I have never heard anyone who was in a gun fight say I wish I had less ammo.

Myself my primary carry is a G19 but sometimes it is just to big or not feasible to carry so I switch to my Walther PPS.  I have considered picking up a Ruger LCP for a through in the pocket pistol because it is just so damn tiny and at least it is 9mm Kurz.

I'll throw in my $0.02 worth.

Up until a few years ago, I had absolutely no interest in .380. I'd tried a few (AMT Backup, the original SAO one, a Sig P230 and a S&W .380 Sigma) for low profile carry and none worked out, for various reasons. The AMT and Sigma were complete POSes and the Sig, while a very good gun, was pretty much the size of some of the smaller 9mms at the time, so it didn't make any sense at all. I got rid of all of them and carried a small .38 or 9mm and called it good.

A few years ago, my mother wanted her CCW and bought a Ruger LCP. After buying it, she decided she couldn't operate the slide due to pretty severe arthritis in her hands, so I traded her my S&W M649 for it. She was happy with the M649 with standard pressure .38 and I was left trying to figure out what to do with the LCP.

In playing with it, I found that it does, indeed, have a niche- ultra low profile for those times when you want a gun but shouldn't have one or for non permissive environments. I'm not talking about carrying anywhere it is illegal, but in places where, say, it is legal to carry but, for whatever reason, you need ultra low profile. I carried the LCP on occasion for a couple of years before figuring out that, for my large hands, it was just too small. I couldn't reliably grip it in a hurry because the butt was just too small for my hands. I stepped up to a Glock 42, which fits me very well but is still small and light enough for me to pocket carry in most of my clothes, if needed. Sure, there are a couple of 9mms that are about the same size as the G42, but the G42 has proven to accurate and reliable and, most importantly, since it is a locked breech .380, it has pretty much no recoil and is VERY easy to hold on target for follow up shots, which will likely be needed with .380. This was one of the biggest selling points for me, the exceptional ease of use.

I think, in the end, I'm in the same place that most here are. While I'm not overjoyed with .380 and would much prefer to carry something larger, there are just times and places where you can't carry something bigger. For those times, one of the micro .380s is a good, and sometimes the only, choice. If I can, I always carry something bigger, but there are times you just can't. Use good ammo in your .380 (I use Gold Dots because, out of the slightly longer G42 barrel, it comes VERY CLOSE to meeting the FBI requirements while expanding better than the Hornady XTP offerings) and it should do the job just fine.

Bub75

You are correct. I was under the impression he was shot with the Keltek .380. Sorry for spreading bad info.

Great point. Lets not forget also, that we are still living under rule-of-law. While living under ROL (as nutn'fancy puts it tee hee), a small .380 or single-stack 9mm is more than enough for the very slim chance of being in a situation that would require the deployment of any pistol. There are of course fringe cases out there of multiple, determined attackers, that being said, just having to brandish a pistol is a 1 in 100 chance, then break down further to multiple, determined attackers and those odds are quite low. Some of us may have jobs that put us in environments where those odds increase, people like tow truck drivers, delivery people, welfare workers etc...

If the country transitions to a state where rule-of-law is no longer upheld, or you're involved in a natural disaster (Louisiana...again), any pistol will put you at a clear disadvantage. .22, .32. .38, .380, 9mm, .40, .45, .50ae are all at a disadvantage. At that point you're going to need to carry a rifle on your person with spare magazines along with a duty-sized pistol for a backup.

At the end of the day, your caliber preference is purely that, your preference. Practice is what makes perfect and you can be every bit as effective with a .380 as you can be with a .45. Perhaps the most important aspect is to know the limitations of each cartridge and pistol platform and then adjust your decisions based on that. .380 is great for EDC, they are light enough and small enough (G42 included which is one of the larger guns) that you have to work hard to come up with an excuse not carry it. More good people armed regardless of caliber, the better off we all are.

The 380 bullets that are available today are superior to 9mm bullets 15 to 20 years ago. I would be completely ok with a 380 but it just so happens that I am able to conceal a Kahr PM9 extremely well so that is what I carry.

I did see an interesting study. "An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power"

No handgun round is all that good.

Handy link to stopping effectiveness study.

I have never felt unarmed with a .380 in malls, theaters, the workplace, or out for dinner at a nice restaurant. Pocket carry, single stacks, double stacks, they all serve a purpose; self defense. Carrying is for my self defense, not to go looking for a fight. All pistols suck for killing, but I cannot carry a rifle and so I choose accordingly. Well timed shot placement from concealment is everything, mag dumping everywhere isn't.

In the end, a .380 for a pocket pistol is just a tool to choose from the toolbox when appropriate. Long ago I learned the hard way that no gun or strictly one caliber does it all, it's realistically impossible.

I've seen Die Hard enough times to know how to survive a terrorist attack.  The terrorists wouldn't stand a chance.

Until the weather cools off, it's gonna have to be.

I'm going to say yes, but I carry a .38 J-frame religiously. Practically the same ballistics.

I'm totally okay with my G42 (though it's carried as an 8+1).  It's more of an anti-mugging gun for me, when I walk the dog or run errands.
I find plenty of times at night I prefer the G43, and if I'm going out to a bad area (especially at a bad time), the G19 gets to go.
But I'd carry a 22LR happily over nothing...I have TONS of faith that I could be plenty effective with 14+1 minimag solid points if I had to be.

My G42 is on me 95% of the time. So yeah.380 is fine by me.

I prefer a jframe to a micro .380 but I'm in the better than nothing crowd as well. More so just because I prefer the platform. I used to carry a .380 from time to time and then decided not to be lazy and now carry a G43 as a minimum unless I'm forced to pocket carry, then it's the jframe.  

Mostly it's a G26 or G19 though. Appendix carry has really allowed me to up the gun size.

Yup.  This right here.  I toted a .380 with me today, as I wanted a pocket gun.  My route was minimal threat (I was walking my son), but I did bring 3 or 4 extra mags w/me.  I carry according to "perceived threat" but always bring extra food for my sidearm.  I live in SW AZ, and dig the outdoors.  

Trip to the desert?  Minimum of 1 sidearm and an AR.  Both well fed.

YMMV and all that jazz.

I never head south your way unless I have an AR15 and two pistols; one holstered to the car and one on me. And I always make sure the AC works before I even begin that trip

I carry a .380 sometimes, an LCP with laser. The Hornady 90gr XTP I carry in it work well for what they are IMO.

I'm usually carring a 9mm or .38spl.

I agree. And, I almost never carry only the minimum. It reminds me of when I was a teenager and had bought a new motorcycle and was shopping for a helmet. I was looking at the cheaper ones compared to the several hundred dollar helmet. The salesman asked me (looking at a $25 helmet compared to a $225 helmet -40 years ago), do you have a $25 head? It made sense then and it still does now. That's why I don't scrimp (quality, reliability, durability beats cheap and light weight every time) on guns since you're betting your life (and loved one's lives) on them.

Forget the terrorists. When you consider the average domestic criminal predator, your argument fails when you consider the number of times that black males have been stopped by uniformed and "armed" police and the "BG" (your term) has not been deterred from trying to use his (BG's) gun to shoot the armed police officer. Moral of the story is, if the "BG" is not afraid to try and shoot an armed and trained uniformed police officer who is NOT going to be carrying a .380, what makes you think for a millisecond that the BG will be afraid to try and kill you if you produce that "TERRIFYING" .380? Oh, I forgot, you mentioned the use of "menacing words" which would do the trick.  Good luck with that life saving tactic.

I'll pass on the condescending attitude, that seems to be par for the course with the online gun community. Police are trained to go after the threat, they go towards danger while we look to stay away from it. By your logic, we should be packing rifles, AK47's or AR15's with 30+ round magazines everywhere we go to fend off those terrifying black males that seem to be running amuck... I'm not even going to go down that road, we'll just say that there are plenty of white male predators as well.

Look at the statistics of armed civilian self defense shootings OUTSIDE of the home. It's a very slim margin you'll ever need a gun, a slimmer margin still that shots will be fired and finally a slimmer margin even still that caliber played a roll in any of it. Again, police are in the business of putting themselves in harms way. We on the other hand are not.

Bottom line is a .45 is worthless if it's at home or you can't get adequate follow up shots. The same applies for all handgun calibers, none of them are 1-shot stops. If a light-weight .380 is something someone can commit to carrying every single day then why discourage someone from doing that? A gun in the hand, any make, model or caliber is better than the same in a safe at home.

How long of a stick and what type of wood?  Spears are highly effective weapons and have been for centuries.

I agree somewhat with what you are saying but at the same time consider this.  You own a 380 pea shooter pistol (Ruger LCP size pistol) and a full-size Glock/USP/etc and you decide you are going to wear shorts and just a t-shirt and the full size just does not conceal.  The pea shooter is far better than nothing.  If you living in an area where people do not where heavy clothing/jackets the 380 can do its job.  I do not advocate someone going out of their way to carry a 380 but if that is all they have/can afford/conceal go for it.  I do recommend if you are going to carry 9mm Kurz do research into quality ammunition choices.

Impressive introduction of several strawmen at once

Small sample sizes and ROE and psychology mess up your strawman arguments, but I don't think anyone wants go go down that road. I sure don't.

I will say, when it comes to sample size, 22lr kills more people than anything else.

Like the man says "the best gun is the one you take with you"

Are you one of those guys with umpteen million mags on you, itching for a fight with a squad of terrorists? I ask because that attitude to undermine what he said looks like it really struck a chord for you to react this way.

I carry an LCP .380 when logistically it's the only option but even then I'll off body carry my G27.   I carry FMJ in my LCP.  FMJ wise it's on par with 9mm from a practical standpoint.

.22 bullets are enough if you know what you're doing.

G43 made my .380 obsolete.