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Posted: 5/26/2016 10:37:24 PM EDT
I asked a while back for suggestions for full sized 9mm, high capacity with an external safety.  I'm comfortable with the 1911 style pistols (own 2).  

You guys suggested among other things, the M&P and the CZ.  I've handled both and now I can't decide.  I do have plenty of friends that are long time shooters who have the M&P but I do really like the CZ and everything I've read about them.  Problem is I want to shoot a CZ before I buy one but I don't know anybody who has one.  I did handle one at a LGS and I liked the way it fit my hands.  I'm a woman and have small hands.  

Also with the M&P is the ported barrel worth the extra money?  I have not gotten to shoot one with the ported barrel.  

I shoot steel challenge and Metal madness and I'd want to compete with whatever I end up buying.  

So... Pros and cons of each, please?  

TIA
Link Posted: 5/26/2016 11:46:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I asked a while back for suggestions for full sized 9mm, high capacity with an external safety.  I'm comfortable with the 1911 style pistols (own 2).  

You guys suggested among other things, the M&P and the CZ.  I've handled both and now I can't decide.  I do have plenty of friends that are long time shooters who have the M&P but I do really like the CZ and everything I've read about them.  Problem is I want to shoot a CZ before I buy one but I don't know anybody who has one.  I did handle one at a LGS and I liked the way it fit my hands.  I'm a woman and have small hands.  

Also with the M&P is the ported barrel worth the extra money?  I have not gotten to shoot one with the ported barrel.  

I shoot steel challenge and Metal madness and I'd want to compete with whatever I end up buying.  

So... Pros and cons of each, please?  

TIA
View Quote

The real question is do you want single action with a safety, or DA/SA, or striker fired. And do you want a heavy steel gun or a polymer gun?  

If you are never carrying it go with the CZ. If you are into competition shooting you will want to check out the Cajun Gun Works website and read about upgrades.

I would also check out the P-09/P-07 if you want a polymer DA/SA. You can swap out the decocker for the manual safety, whichever you prefer.

Try and rent both side by side if you can. If not, you cannot go wrong with a CZ. I spent months researching and picked up my CZ-75 SP-01 this past week. It is phenomenal. The DA is a bit heavy but if you are getting the safety model then that doesn't matter to you unless you are manually decocking it. With trigger work you can't beat the CZ-75 series for the money. It's really not bad stock either it's just not spectacular.

I rented just about every gun on the market and the CZ felt like I was cheating compared to the others. I am by no means a good shot, too.
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 7:49:07 AM EDT
[#2]
If you decide on the CZ I would opt for a SAO model since you say you have small hands. The double action pull is has a long reach.
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 9:02:54 AM EDT
[#3]

A ported barrel might put you in a division of steel challenge you don't want to be in.





I suggest the CZ.  Consider moving up to a Shadow.  More can be done with their triggers.  I shoot one for USPSA, and its fantastic.


Link Posted: 5/27/2016 9:04:05 AM EDT
[#4]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If you decide on the CZ I would opt for a SAO model since you say you have small hands. The double action pull is has a long reach.
View Quote
The SP-01 (not deckocker model) can be carried cocked and locked.



 
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 9:29:35 AM EDT
[#5]
This is a wonderful predicament to have !!  Both are good choices,  but I really really like the M&P series
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 9:49:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Cz all the way
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 9:51:29 AM EDT
[#7]
I don't have either, so I may be wrong, but wouldn't it be easier to get in to competition with an M&P?

It seems like there are more gunsmiths and upgrades readily available.  Also, I think there are M&Ps geared towards competition out of the box.

Something to consider.
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 10:01:09 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 10:10:13 AM EDT
[#9]
I have a 5" M&P Pro in 9mm and like it. However, I put the APEX competition kit in it to get the better trigger. As far as the ported barrel, it's not going to do anything for you unless you're getting into the higher pressures. Considering the money I've put into it, may have been better to be a part of the CZ mafia to start with.

Be careful about sending your gun to Cajun. I've heard people complain that when they got it back, it wasn't legal for production. Sounds like you need to be specific with your requests. BUT, that's only what I've heard with no actual personal experience.
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 8:30:55 PM EDT
[#10]
I have both and like them both a lot. That being said, I would always suggest the SP01 first. It's a great shooter.
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 8:47:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:.... with the ported barrel.  ......
View Quote


Ported barrel will prevent you from shooting some games ( IDPA )

and put you in open division in others, so you'll be up against these guys....





I like the M&P a lot,....I like the CZ's also,....you can't go wrong with either

M&P trigger jobs are super easy

http://www.burwellguns.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf



Link Posted: 5/27/2016 9:27:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Well I'd planned to sell my current 9mm for one of these because well... this isn't my only hobby and hobby money is tight right now.  But I went and shot my 9 last night and I just can't part with it.  

But I did go put a CZ 75 on layaway.  I like the weight of the 75.  It wasn't as expensive as I'd expected.  I'll have it next month!
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 10:05:16 PM EDT
[#13]
I own 2 pro's, one apex ed to the max, and a CZ custom shadow.The shadow is twice the pistol, in all honesty.
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 10:08:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well I'd planned to sell my current 9mm for one of these because well... this isn't my only hobby and hobby money is tight right now.  But I went and shot my 9 last night and I just can't part with it.  

But I did go put a CZ 75 on layaway.  I like the weight of the 75.  It wasn't as expensive as I'd expected.  I'll have it next month!
View Quote


CZ Custom offers a variety of upgrades that will keep you production legal and can turn a bone stock CZ in to an awesome shooter.
Link Posted: 5/28/2016 12:43:43 AM EDT
[#15]
I prefer the M&P.   I disliked the SP-01 enough that I didn't even feel like trying to improve it.  OTOH, I somehow wound up with 3 M&P Pros.

And I agree that the ported barrel is undesirable.
Link Posted: 5/28/2016 12:58:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I don't have either, so I may be wrong, but wouldn't it be easier to get in to competition with an M&P?

It seems like there are more gunsmiths and upgrades readily available.  Also, I think there are M&Ps geared towards competition out of the box.

Something to consider.
View Quote


No offense meant, but you are wrong.  CZ is far more competition oriented as a brand.  

Any derivative of the CZ75 is a fantastic choice.
Link Posted: 5/28/2016 6:17:34 AM EDT
[#17]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I don't have either, so I may be wrong, but wouldn't it be easier to get in to competition with an M&P?





It seems like there are more gunsmiths and upgrades readily available.  Also, I think there are M&Ps geared towards competition out of the box.





Something to consider.
View Quote


40% of the field at the 2015 USPSA Production Nationals was shooting a CZ.











That's called a clue.




 

ETA CZ Custom, Automatic Accuracy, and Cajun Gun Works are the people you should be looking at for upgrades.


 
Link Posted: 5/28/2016 9:18:29 PM EDT
[#18]
An M&P with a Apex FSS kit and an Apex barrel will run you less than a good equipped CZ, and smoke it in accuracy and the trigger pull.

CZ's can be really really awesome.  They just can't be really really awesome for cheap.
Link Posted: 5/28/2016 10:06:23 PM EDT
[#19]
I may yet pick up an M&P, I do like the ones I've shot.

And as far as upgrades, I'm good friends with several gunsmiths. If it's possible to fix, one of my friends can fix it.

And no, I didn't ask this question of them because they all carry biases. One is a diehard 1911 .45 guy and so on. They'll work on what I ask but not without bitching.
Link Posted: 5/29/2016 8:33:41 AM EDT
[#20]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


An M&P with a Apex FSS kit and an Apex barrel will run you less than a good equipped CZ, and smoke it in accuracy and the trigger pull.



CZ's can be really really awesome.  They just can't be really really awesome for cheap.
View Quote

An FSS trigger will put him in another division in steel challenge/uspsa.  Not apples to oranges.





You obviously have no experience in why CZ and Tanfoglio dominate USPSA.





OP, you will enjoy your CZ-75.


Start here on trigger tuning. Some springs, an extended firing pin, and a disconnector will get you a good start on a great trigger.





 
Link Posted: 6/1/2016 10:20:35 AM EDT
[#21]
For $850ish it would be hard to beat either of these CZ's for any purpose.

http://czcustom.com/new-firearms/cz-pistols-custom/cz-75-shadow-sa-da-9mm-black.html

http://czcustom.com/cz-75-sp01-shadow-9mm-91154-black-cz-custom-exclusive.html
Link Posted: 6/1/2016 12:08:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
An FSS trigger will put him in another division in steel challenge/uspsa.  Not apples to oranges.





You obviously have no experience in why CZ and Tanfoglio dominate USPSA.





OP, you will enjoy your CZ-75.


Start here on trigger tuning. Some springs, an extended firing pin, and a disconnector will get you a good start on a great trigger.


http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191773&hl=



 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
An M&P with a Apex FSS kit and an Apex barrel will run you less than a good equipped CZ, and smoke it in accuracy and the trigger pull.

CZ's can be really really awesome.  They just can't be really really awesome for cheap.
An FSS trigger will put him in another division in steel challenge/uspsa.  Not apples to oranges.





You obviously have no experience in why CZ and Tanfoglio dominate USPSA.





OP, you will enjoy your CZ-75.


Start here on trigger tuning. Some springs, an extended firing pin, and a disconnector will get you a good start on a great trigger.


http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=191773&hl=



 


Obviously I don't, I don't compete in gun games, and if I did, I would run what I had for personal enjoyment and not care what class it put me in.

OP, get a 2011 if you take competition that seriously.

Otherwise the M&P will do great, you can casually compete with it and have a wonderful defensive tool that will have a better trigger and be more accurate than any CZ that hasn't had a bunch of expensive work.


Link Posted: 6/1/2016 12:38:01 PM EDT
[#23]
I have both. For almost any competition, I would take the CZ over the M&P.
If I had to carry it much, I would go with the M&P due to the weight savings.

With a few parts from Cajun Gun Works and some elbow grease, you can have a spectacular trigger in the CZ. The M&P trigger will never be spectacular.
Link Posted: 6/1/2016 5:15:35 PM EDT
[#24]
^I'm probably headed to route of both.  Why not, right?  

Order of future purposes:
Get CZ off layaway
S&W Victory - not 100% sold
M&P
Link Posted: 6/1/2016 8:17:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Cz all the way
View Quote



This. Not even close, IMO.
Link Posted: 6/2/2016 7:56:34 AM EDT
[#26]
I don't compete.

I do like small groups and reliability in a gun that fits my hand.

The last six handguns I've bought were CZs.  Why?  Because the P07 and P09 shoot better groups for me than my M&P, XDM or Glock pistols.  Only the XDMs have been as reliable for me as the CZ's.

Parts availability?  Try and buy any/all parts for an M&P or XDM.  Last time I bought parts for my M&Ps I had to order 3 small parts from 2 vendors and had to wait for one to come back in stock.

Go to the CZ USA web site, or the CZ Custom website and you'll find they sell every part for CZ pistols except the frames.  For the plastic framed P07 and P09's they even sell the metal rails and pins that hold the rails in the frame (just in case you'd ever wear them out, I suppose).  If you want aftermarket/custom parts the CZ Custom and Cajun Gun Works web sites have all kinds of "go fast" parts and both offer the services of installing parts you don't want to mess with or tuning your CZ for you.

I just bought a new (2016 model) P01 in Urban Gray Friday.  I took it shooting Sunday after the Memorial Day cook out and dinner.  I shot 115 grain hollow points, 147 grain hollow points, 147 grain coated lead bullets and 100 grain frangible rounds through it.  It fed, fired, ejected every round/bullet type with no malfunctions.  Right out of the box.  I (so far) have not had a single "break in" issue with any of my CZ handguns.  Some folks do, I guess.  I never have.

There's a guy who puts some videos on You Tube of him shooting his P09 at 100 yds. and 200 yds.  His P09 is pretty much stock except for the red dot and all the stuff (epoxy, etc.) he's added to the grip and trigger to make it fit his hand better (ugly pistol, very nice groups).  He used to use the P09 for bulls eye matches (went to a CZ 97 last year).  Recently he bought a CZ P07 and after adding a red dot to it and gooping up the grips and trigger (like the P09) he took it to his local bulls eye match and shot the high score - with a 3.8" barreled compact CZ.

Yes, you could get one that has problems, some folks do, but CZ's customer service is supposed to be excellent (I never had to find out).

Good luck with which ever pistol you choose, but, buy the CZ.
Link Posted: 6/2/2016 5:55:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
^I'm probably headed to route of both.  Why not, right?  

Order of future purposes:
Get CZ off layaway
S&W Victory - not 100% sold
M&P
View Quote


I have both... I like my CZ's stock single action trigger pull than my Apex'd competition trigger in my M&P (mid-size) if that tells you anything OP... YMMV...
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 10:13:20 PM EDT
[#28]
I brought the CZ 75 home today. Going to hit the range tomorrow. I've got a steel challenge match Sunday but I'm just going to take the .22s I think.

I'll post pics when I remember how.
Link Posted: 6/4/2016 10:19:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I brought the CZ 75 home today. Going to hit the range tomorrow. I've got a steel challenge match Sunday but I'm just going to take the .22s I think.

I'll post pics when I remember how.
View Quote



You made the right decision
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 11:53:21 AM EDT
[#30]
I've owned both, both are nice pistols but the weight of the SP01 makes it a pleasure to shoot
Link Posted: 6/5/2016 7:57:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Well, this thing's going to take some getting used to.  I'm not used to such low profile sites.  Overall I love it.  I should have gotten the SAO but I didn't want to wait and I'd have to order the SAO.  Oh well.  I can get used to that too.  

Any tricks to learning the low profile sites?  I ended up having to raise the front site about halfway up the rear sites.  Does that make sense?  Is that normal or am I just weird?
Link Posted: 6/6/2016 9:39:34 AM EDT
[#32]
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