Some ???  Is the RM01 The prefered model  for pistol ? Are there any advantages to the smaller moa dots or the larger ones ? What is the preferred method for zeroing these sight on a hand gun ?

I like the 6.5 MOA RM02 myself as it seems easier to pick up. I zeroed at 10 yards and then confirmed at 25 yards and was right on.

N/M

I prefer the 3.25 MOA RM01 dot size.
I zero at 15yards.  Bore offset is not an issue (less then 1/2") and drops stay inside the dot size at all practical distances.

I put a J-Point on my G34 years ago. For that I left the off set. POI was on the bottom of the POA @ 25 yards. It's been two years since I last shot the 34. So I thought I'd see what everyone else was doing now. I'll have to go see what size that dot was and go from there. But wanted to see what others were using.Got a new gun that I would like to put a RMR on.

I prefer the 6 MOA dot, and run the RMR07 on my G19. I also zero'd at 10yds and it was dead on at 25 as well. Really liking it so far, just cant afford a red dot for all my pistols

As far as the dot goes...I have seen people shoot just as well with the larger dot as the smaller say inside 25 yards or so...its at 50+ and out to 200...YES I SAID 200 YARDS that the smaller dot comes into its own...in theory the new DP Pro with its 2MOA dot should be even better for long distance pistol sniping...yes...new word...PISTOL SNIPING...think active shooter and all you have access to is your EDC...perp is a long hallway away, or across the mall courtyard...the 6.5 MOA dot is easier to pick up and might be a good starting place for newer RDS shooters. I personally have made easy torso hits to 200, heads at 50, eyes at 25 with a RMR01 G19...cant  wait to get my new SI V334 Slide and the new threaded barrel up and running...I was making iron sighted shots on cement blocks at 125 by the mag full but I shoot my 34 a lot...sold the slide and barrel bought the V334 as a prebuy and picked up a SL Threaded match until I can find a KKM...

After some monkeying around and some math via STRELOC I personally run a 10 yard zero on my gun. I shoot 115 grain bullets exclusively, ball for practice and Corbon for social interaction. Using the 10 yard zero I am benefiting in that I also have a 50 yard zero as well...10 and 50 are identical (actually 50 is .1" high), so basically anything from 0 to 10 to 50 is POA/POI as we are talking about parts of an inch. The 10 yard zero also allows me to hit 6" low at 100...about 2 dots worth of hold over, top of his head gets him in the mouth or ear if I have a clear head shot and on his neck torso junction gets thoracic COM...both good placement...this does not work for 124 and 147 grain.. you will have to calculate that using Streloc or other ballistics software.

The below data is for Corbon 115 DPX

Range Drop
(yd)    (in)
0...... - 0.7
5...... - 0.3
10....  0.0
15..... 0.3
20..... 0.4
25..... 0.6
30..... 0.6
35..... 0.6
40..... 0.5
45..... 0.4
50..... 0.1
55..... -0.2
60..... -0.5
65 .....-1.0
70..... -1.5
75..... -2.1
80..... -2.8
85..... -3.6
90..... -4.4
95..... -5.3
100... -6.3

First off the RMR can be installed on the M&P correctly between the E port and the rear sight keeping the rear sight insitu...I have seen it done.

1. Any RMR that fits your budget and needs...some like the RMR01/06, some like the adjustables, some rave about the Dual Illumination models...T-1 Is a rifle optic...unless your playing gun games keep it on a rifle...

2. The lens will get a little dusty...a lens pen next to where you keep your gun will keep it clean and clear, just make a quick visual of your lens part of your donning process. If its a little grundgy give it a quick clean...takes just a second...and also...after having spoken to a Trij rep and getting his/thier blessing I spritz mine with RAIN-X a couple of times a year...no fog going cold to hot and water/rain falls right off of it...

3. I am a hater of running the rear sight anywhere but where its always been...sure you can find an example of something thats atypical like the Detonics gun posted above but they are the exception and not the rule...leaving it insitu removes all the issues of retraining your brain...and its not as simple as looking thru the glass as mentioned earlier, the brain looks to were it was ten thousand times before, even if its just on the other side of that glass lens...THIS causes a reset of YOUR OODA loop...all I ask is why we would do something to reset our own loop?

Thanks thats some good info.

Glad I could help...10 yards is the schiznit...and a good zero can mean retinal shots...like in his %$#@ing EYE....LOL...

Also...when using the proper height suppressor sights, the dot when zero'd should rest exactly on top of the front sight...perfect co-witness.

That's quite interesting.  I wonder what one could do w/ a Beretta 92, 124grn FMJ, a RONI, and a decent red dot...

That's a great idea !!!! Thanks for the tip

Yep, would be a SBR.

Yes if  you throw it into a Roni stock it IS AN SBR...all NFA BIG BOY RULES APPLY...BUT THIS ONE IS NOT AN SBR.NON SBR GLOCK PDW

So I just got my first RMR, adjustable led.  I will be placing this on my new (yet to ship) MP core ported, threaded.  I saw your response to the MP guy above and wanted to ask a couple more if I could.  Do you know with the RMR do the fixed co-witness with the red dot (I did the 6.5 due to my eyes)?  Do you know if traditionally do the RDS sit above the can?  Anything else I should know or look at before I go out and shoot?  I'm normally a rifle guy so I normally do not put this kind of money on handguns nor do I shoot handguns with RDS.  Thanks again!!!

Ha, ha!  Well done.

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Another advantage to RDS systems over irons...ASYMMETRIC DOT PLACEMENT...

Irons must be aligned and on target to score hits...

As long as the dot is on target REGARDLESS of where it is in your field of vision within the RDS window YOU WILL SCORE HITS...dot on meat=hit...

Do you guys think what we see in the marketplace is the final configuration for the RDS/Pistol set up?



1.  RDS behind the ejection port



2.  RDS mounted to slide (which entails durability concerns whether real or perceived)



3.  Accessibility to battery compartment requires removal of the sight.









I have to admit I perceived the RDS/Pistol thingy as just a passing fad.  When I finally got around to shooting my friend's FNX45 setup I couldn't deny that it was both fun to shoot and I could see how with training both speed and accuracy would improve.  






I hate being the guy who just buys in when the market place is about to go to its next iteration.  







 

No I think you will continue to see applications poorly done, done other than you pointed out to satisfy the wants/needs of the end users and or due to design of the slide.

The RMR requires removal to change battery...the new DP Pro does not, I dont think the Docter does either...

I think the evolution will go to guns specifically designed to be RDS guns...

I think you will soon see a multi dot system whereby you buy one RMR and have the choice of 2, 3.25, 6.5, 8 MOA dots with the twist or click of an allen detent to adjust.

1 - I could see a pop-up RDS mounted in front of the ejection port, that folds down when you holster, and pops out & turns on when you draw.  Down the road a piece.

2 - Probably.  We've had frame mounted RDS for years in competition, but it had to go to slide mounts to carry.

3 - That's going to change rather quickly.

This is absolutely true.  I was shooting my CORE with the RMR4, amber dot today 9I had a series of surgeries) I had forgotten just how accurate this baby is at 50 meters Plus.  I plan to put one of the new APEX Barrels in it and I expect this to be a butt tightner.

My CORE as it looks now.  I do have a new Streamlight TLR2 G which I might put on it or I might put it on a Glock 32.    The decisions we make in the modern world

TRAINING TO SEE THE DOT and the MECHANICAL BENEFITS OF COWITNESSING IRON SIGHTS ON A RED DOT PISTOL

Watch the videos and discuss...and to you Gabe Suarez haters, get over it...this is a discussion of the relevant points of the materiel in the video, NOT about the person...

https://youtu.be/tEbf4MqGHJw

https://youtu.be/dlfJ05HDjFg

one of my Cop buddies attended this class and then ran me through it.  I learned a heck of a lot.

His organization is in Prescott..

Acquiring an RDS Pistol skill set

RDS SKILZ

Lots of comments about the MOS so far, what are the takes on the CORE system?

Better / Worse / Same?

Personally I thing CORE did a better job than Glock did with the the MOS...but it is still a compromise...If your interested in the system...just have your gun milled...

copy

Could one have a Glock slide milled to take S&W CORE mounts?

Also please comment on the actual optics.  Is RMR the best way to go, and why is it better than a Delta Point Pro?  It is obviously the most common platform when you are having your gun milled for one specific model.

It seems to me that the FF3 is the best budget friendly option but just rides a little too high.  Agree/Disagree?

And to add to his questions. Triangle or dot? Thoughts for people with astigmatism, etc.

I can't speak to any other than an RMR Dual Illumination RM05G I put on my G35 MOS. It was not budget friendly, but it's more usable for me than a true red dot led model. The 9 moa green dot in tritium or fiber optic is really easy for me to pick up clear and quicker than a smaller led dot. With my astigmatism many/most smaller led reds 'star out' on me to much larger than 9 moa, so the tritium/FO dot works better for me. Also, I've read and heard that the dual illumination RMRs are supposedly more robust and less sensitive than some battery powered rivals, and oh yeah, no batteries to change as well. Anyway, so far it's working really well for me.








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Noice pics and setup Viper...you hit on a couple of points...some with Astig will want the Tritium.FO dot, or the Adjustable...I have mild astig and get some starring out of the RMR01 but not anything I cant deal with...almost a non issue.

Tell me about that sealing plate between the RMR and the slide? I run one on my battery RMR01 and the initial battery issues went away...(not all batteries are the same thickness and the sealing plate seals and allows for more consistency). Who did your milling? What Suppressor sights are you using?

Tell us about some of your transitional woes if any...

I have had the Burris fast fire 3 on my core for about a month now. It does ride a little high to fully co witness irons. I can still see the top of the front post and roughly use the irons with the white line provided by the fast fire. Doing so is not nearly as quick as I typically can aqquire iron sights however. No complaints other wis

So only positive experiences?  There are some valid complaints IMO.

Thanks... It was actually a lot of fun putting it together at the same time I was rehabbing from arm surgery to repair a ruptured biceps tendon and tennis elbow in the same arm, so I actually took my time with this project.

No milling on mine as it's the factory Glock MOS.  I had read about the issues folks were having with the RMR mounting screws being too long, and getting the Trijicon mounting adapter plate kit that had the correct sized screws, but I wanted to fabricate my own as I had time on my hands. I only used the extra thin plate because the RMR has a rubber gasket that would be partially exposed just mounting to the Glock supplied RMR mounting plate. Anyway, I used some .020" thick stiff poly sheeting I have used for knife handle liners, and it worked great. Then I measured the actual length I'd need for the #8-32 thread mounting screws. I then cut/ground the screws and checked for length by mounting in the plate while off the slide. This way they are not too long, nor too short.  Then I assembled the Glock plate to the slide, the poly yellow plate on top of that, and then the RMR atop that. Also using thread locker and some micro mil double sided adhesive film. See the pics below for better illustration.

The suppressor sights were a bit more of a challenge at first, but I ended up getting some Dawson Precision Sights as they have a set available for the RMR MOS set up that give a good co-witness sight picture. Mounting them was a little bit of challenge, but they supplied the small tools and have a video online to assist. Again, if one takes their time, it isn't all that bad, and I had a bad arm to boot..lol

https://dawsonprecision.com/copy-of-dawson-precision-glock-42-fixed-carry-sight-set-black-rear-fiber-optic-front-1/

After that, I laser bore sighted the RMR in with the Dawsons, and hoped for the best when I took it to the range. While still having some limited abilities and arm still really weak, but able to shoot I went to the range one frigged day last month and shot almost 40 rounds to test it out. I had mixed results.... The gun, RMR and sights worked perfect, but I found out just how unhealed my arm still was... Needless to say it was some fairly happy pain... I have no doubt the groups will shrink as my arm continues to heal.



So here's some more pics of the earlier build process....

















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Viper135,  that is some great work.  I like that set-up, both the custom RMR plate and the Dawson sights.  They look good together.

I don't remember where I got the bug to try a RDS on a pistol, but in 2014 I picked up a factory threaded Ruger 22/45 with the rail instead of sight so I could try my hand at a RDS. Found a like new Leupold Delta Point on GB, and the rest is history. Had the trouble of finding the dot until I learned how to present the pistol.  



Next foray into a RDS pistol was  FN FNX 45T and on that I installed a RMR06. With the suppressor sights I got the learning curve to a good presentation much faster than the Ruger. I'm hooked.

So, being a primarily a Sig man, I bought a extra P226 slide and barrel off ebay with the intention of getting it milled for another RMR06.
The slide was rather well used, more that I expected, so it's just sitting on the bench. Once I get the RMR, I'll probably go ahead and get the slide milled.

It will go on a NIB old stock, 40S&W, P226 Combo package I picked up on GB for a song. No love for the 40's right now, so deals can be found.

Got into my account, but the FNX 45T picture is gone, so I'll have to retake it.

Thanks 220, I appreciate it.  

I have one last pic from the front to share, and then I'll have to get back to the range maybe this weekend and tighten my groups.. :)





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Is there a distance that is ideal to zero an RDS on a handgun?  What do you use to steady the gun to zero?

Earlier in the thread we discussed this...page one or two...I just sit at the bench, use a bag as a rest and take my time...

You take that straight out of 6-40???

Sorry but your missing the point...the whole idea of an RDS on a pistol is not one of "averages" . You zero an RMR, DP, DOCTER or other RDS just as you would an RDS on a rifle, just as you would a scope on a rifle...I mean I guess you could do it as indicated before but I for one am not in a race to mediocrity...while using the above method one could reasonably expect to make hits inside 10-15 yards simply because the red dot would be somewhere in the vicinity of the target...but not much further out...

The whole mindset of adopting an RDS is one of striving for the next level...not, making good enough, easier...

The addition of an RMR on my G19, my transition to it and now second nature have completely changed the gun...from simply an EDC handgun to a concealable pistol caliber carbine. Gone are the days of COM hits, now its head shots out to 50, eyeballs inside 15-25 yards, well aimed torso shots out to 200 yards...with the addition of an RMR you gun ceases to be simply be a handgun...why zero it like one?

My zeroing technique...

A quality set of suppessor sights, properly selected as far as height for the particular RMR/RDS system you are using, properly aligned and installed should be almost dead  on the money...

I then adjust the dots windage and elevation so that it sits just on top of the front sight...

I then head to the range with 115gr ball and Corbon DPX...

I use a series of 1/2" orange dots on my target backer...

I fire a few rounds of ball to see if everythings close, it usually is...I then swap over to DPX and fine tune the adjustments, windage and elevation until I can reliably hit the 1/2" dot at 10 yards...it rarely takes more than a whole magazine to zero.
I then, once I am satisfied with my zero take a dab of black automotive RVT Gasket compound and place it on my adjustment screws...once set it will not allow the zero to wonder as the screws will not shift.

My goal is to be able to completely eliminate the 1/2" dot with 5 rounds...the gun is now zero'd at 10 yards, is .1" low at 50 yards and 6.3" low at 100.

If the rear suppressor sight is off it can/should be adjusted to cowitness with the dot...remember the RDS is now primary and the irons are now BUIS only.

Thanks for the reply's.  I almost think that the factory sites allow a cowitness with the RMR installed (MP core ported with threaded barrel.  It could be that I'm over looking it but I plan to test this weekend.  My eyes screw with me (new glasses being made) so it's really hard for me to cowitness anything.  I'll try to see if I can get a damn near zero and go from there.  I'll also check if it truly is a cowitness or I'm just moving the barrel up high enough to force a cowitness.