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Posted: 8/17/2015 5:40:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Smith & Wesson to Equip South Australia Police Force Victoria Police switches to semi-automatic weapons New pistol chosen for Victoria Police Edmonton Police Service Ottawa Police Service Toronto Police Service On patrol with Toronto's bike police - Canadian Cycling Magazine Regina Police Service Queensland Police Service Operational Skills and Practices - Queensland Police Service Australia's Police services - firearms, training and philosophy Victoria, eh? I have one of their old sidearms. 
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Posted: 8/17/2015 5:48:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know of at least one, large FLEA that is *probably* dropping the .40. I just dont really see any value to the cartridge. Decreased life of parts, increased recoil, decreased capacity, slower follow up shots, all for an ever shrinking, extremely modest increase in terminal ballistics. I'll take a 9mm, thank you.  |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 6:06:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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I know of at least one, large FLEA that is *probably* dropping the .40. I just dont really see any value to the cartridge. Decreased life of parts, increased recoil, decreased capacity, slower follow up shots, all for an ever shrinking, extremely modest increase in terminal ballistics. I'll take a 9mm, thank you. http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/1426572.jpg Explain to me what you gave up to have the increased durability. It's a math game, or more specifically a physics game. All to not really gain anything in return. It's like tricking out an M1A for combat use when there are LaRues and KAC dedicated rifles. |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 6:58:47 PM EDT
[#4]
So this "physics game". Explain to me how 115grains = 180grains in various scenarios.
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Posted: 8/17/2015 7:28:45 PM EDT
[#5]
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So this "physics game". Explain to me how 115grains = 180grains in various scenarios. 115 gr is not an apt comparison, IMO. 147 would be more appropriate. 
.40 makes a bigger temporary cavity, with marginally more issue damage, but penetration is about the same. Both should incapacitate the same with a CNS hit, and hits anywhere else are still non-incapacitating depending on other variables of course. Only difference is you just get 2 more chances with 9mm. |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 7:35:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Let me know how it deals with auto glass and barrier penetration.
Oh wait.... it doesn't and .40 S&W does that better. |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 7:47:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
115 gr is not an apt comparison, IMO. 147 would be more appropriate. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/BurtSaun/Pistol_Round_Terminal_Ballistics_zpsvqypabcj.jpg .40 makes a bigger temporary cavity, with marginally more issue damage, but penetration is about the same. Both should incapacitate the same with a CNS hit, and hits anywhere else are still non-incapacitating depending on other variables of course. Only difference is you just get 2 more chances with 9mm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So this "physics game". Explain to me how 115grains = 180grains in various scenarios. 115 gr is not an apt comparison, IMO. 147 would be more appropriate. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/BurtSaun/Pistol_Round_Terminal_Ballistics_zpsvqypabcj.jpg .40 makes a bigger temporary cavity, with marginally more issue damage, but penetration is about the same. Both should incapacitate the same with a CNS hit, and hits anywhere else are still non-incapacitating depending on other variables of course. Only difference is you just get 2 more chances with 9mm. Stop with the personal attacks -Maynard posting the same stupid gel test for the last five years. You do realize there are more real world scenarios than shooting gel right? |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 8:41:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me know how it deals with auto glass and barrier penetration. Oh wait.... it doesn't and .40 S&W does that better. That's a valid point. My rebuttal would be, what percentage of people get shot through auto glass in real world shootings, and is that need worth the trade-offs I've mentioned? |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 8:45:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
posting the same stupid gel test for the last five years. You do realize there are more real world scenarios than shooting gel right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So this "physics game". Explain to me how 115grains = 180grains in various scenarios. 115 gr is not an apt comparison, IMO. 147 would be more appropriate. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/BurtSaun/Pistol_Round_Terminal_Ballistics_zpsvqypabcj.jpg .40 makes a bigger temporary cavity, with marginally more issue damage, but penetration is about the same. Both should incapacitate the same with a CNS hit, and hits anywhere else are still non-incapacitating depending on other variables of course. Only difference is you just get 2 more chances with 9mm. posting the same stupid gel test for the last five years. You do realize there are more real world scenarios than shooting gel right? No reason to introduce ad hominem attacks to the discussion. I've posted data, you have scoffed. Post some data with why you believe what you believe, and we can have a reasonable discussion. Real world data is excellent. It does not control well for variables or chance, however, when in small numbers. |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 9:13:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a valid point. My rebuttal would be, what percentage of people get shot through auto glass in real world shootings, and is that need worth the trade-offs I've mentioned? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Let me know how it deals with auto glass and barrier penetration. Oh wait.... it doesn't and .40 S&W does that better. That's a valid point. My rebuttal would be, what percentage of people get shot through auto glass in real world shootings, and is that need worth the trade-offs I've mentioned? This can and does happen...  Ferguson   NYC Yeah.... auto glass and barrier penetration is important for CCW. |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 9:26:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For me.... it is very important. The chance of a car jacking is greater than a chance of a home invasion. Sudden Riot like events, especially with today's PC culture is very possible. Though overall society is safer than in recent past. there are still issues. This can and does happen... http://i.imgur.com/T1hHKZu.jpg Ferguson https://jonathanturley.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/wifebikegang.jpg https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/biokiegang1.jpg NYC Yeah.... auto glass and barrier penetration is important for CCW. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let me know how it deals with auto glass and barrier penetration. Oh wait.... it doesn't and .40 S&W does that better. That's a valid point. My rebuttal would be, what percentage of people get shot through auto glass in real world shootings, and is that need worth the trade-offs I've mentioned? This can and does happen... http://i.imgur.com/T1hHKZu.jpg Ferguson https://jonathanturley.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/wifebikegang.jpg https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/biokiegang1.jpg NYC Yeah.... auto glass and barrier penetration is important for CCW. You bring up good points. I appreciate that. For me, the other benefits of 9mm weigh more heavily. |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 9:48:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Saying sheep is a personal attack now? What word should I use to describe people that blindly follow a popular opinion?
I think we should ban 12er, 13er, 14er, and 15er cause that is offensive. Just because our join date says xxx doesn't make people ignorant. |
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Posted: 8/17/2015 11:39:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saying sheep is a personal attack now? What word should I use to describe people that blindly follow a popular opinion? I think we should ban 12er, 13er, 14er, and 15er cause that is offensive. Just because our join date says xxx doesn't make people ignorant. Yes, of course it is and we don't talk about people in tech forums, we talk about technical related, thoughts, ideas and information. None of the terms relating to a user's join date will be tolerated here, that's for GD. This isn't GD and no one called you ignorant in the specific forum. Please stay on topic and refrain from attacking other users with any sort of label. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 8:49:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, of course it is and we don't talk about people in tech forums, we talk about technical related, thoughts, ideas and information. None of the terms relating to a user's join date will be tolerated here, that's for GD. This isn't GD and no one called you ignorant in the specific forum. Please stay on topic and refrain from attacking other users with any sort of label. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Saying sheep is a personal attack now? What word should I use to describe people that blindly follow a popular opinion? I think we should ban 12er, 13er, 14er, and 15er cause that is offensive. Just because our join date says xxx doesn't make people ignorant. Yes, of course it is and we don't talk about people in tech forums, we talk about technical related, thoughts, ideas and information. None of the terms relating to a user's join date will be tolerated here, that's for GD. This isn't GD and no one called you ignorant in the specific forum. Please stay on topic and refrain from attacking other users with any sort of label. Wait a second. Wasn't this a GD thread at one point? The whole time this thread has been going on I didn't realize it was in handgun, so if it's always been in handgun then sorry. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 9:20:18 AM EDT
[#15]
No, it's always been a handgun discussions thread.
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Posted: 8/18/2015 2:44:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know of at least one, large FLEA that is *probably* dropping the .40. I just dont really see any value to the cartridge. Decreased life of parts, increased recoil, decreased capacity, slower follow up shots, all for an ever shrinking, extremely modest increase in terminal ballistics. I'll take a 9mm, thank you. What type of shortened life span are we talking? It's not like ANY of the major handgun calibers wear out a firearm in a few thousand rounds. We're talking many tens of thousands of rounds before frames start to give out. Any handgun is going to wear out springs, slide stops, even barrels, etc. Inexpensive wear parts. How much does a recoil spring cost? Some makes wear out certain parts faster than others. Honestly, if you've got the ammo to wear a handgun out beyond repair you've spent many times the $$$ of a new firearm by then. How much does .40 slow you down? I always see people on the internet say the increased recoil causes slower follow up shots. Have you compared between them on a shot timer? I don't see a big change when shooting 9, 40 or 45. From my experience I doubt very much that 40 causes a shooter with solid fundamentals to turn to molasses. Do you refrain from +P or +P+ 9mm because it causes increased recoil and slower follow up shots? (not meant as an attack) My point above being that I don't think the "negatives" are nearly as bad as some would like to believe. The trade offs exist with each of the major calibers, you don't get something for nothing. I carry 9 and shoot a lot of 40 and 45 too. Like 'em all. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:09:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Never did understand the perpetual fight over calibers.
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:36:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ain't going anywhere.... how manh agencies dumped the .45 ACP? I guarantee you that there are more LE Agencies carrying 9mm and .40 S&W than .45 ACP. Even today with all the switching and such. .40 S&W is here to stay. It is an entrenched cartridge and isn't going anywhere. So say the Supreme Leader & Dictator For Life of the People's Party of .40 S&W! So be it sayeth!!! 
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Posted: 8/18/2015 4:00:08 PM EDT
[#19]
Continuing Shenanigans In A Technical Forum
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