I took a couple guys from my PD out to the range yesterday for qualifications. As we were finishing up, one of them kB!ed his issued Glock 22. Magazine self ejected, extractor took off for parts unknown. Officer was fine and finished the last stage with another G22. I brought the gun home last night and detail stripped it today to pull the case, examine the gun to make sure it was OK and replace the extractor (yes, I'm an armorer). We lucked out and found the case head that separated.

At first, I thought it was another case of the dreaded Glock .40 poor case head support. I had a 2nd Gen G23 several years ago that had a case head separation with factory ammo that blew the extractor and mag out because of the incredibly poor case support at the feed ramp. A week or so after mine blew out, another Officer at my PD had a separate 2nd Gen G23 do the exact same thing, again with factory ammo, because of the poor case support at the feed ramp. I thought this was exactly the same thing.......until I pulled the case out of the chamber and started looking. See, I used to be issued this exact same gun, a Cen4 G22. When I got it, I checked the case head support at the feed ramp and found that it was a LOT better than the older guns and was as good as a lot of other guns I had seen pics of the chamber and head support. After checking the gun and what's left of the case, I think it fired slightly out of battery. Pics follow. Opinions?















Thanks for looking.

Bub75

Breach face pic?
Ammo used? Standard pressure or +p
Approximate mileage of pistol?

I may be wrong, but I don't think there is a +P for.40?

I wonder if the bullet could have been pushed back into the case which greatly increases pressure.  Another possible ammo failure could be a double charge of powder.  I've never seen a Glock 22 fire slightly out of battery but anything is possible, even a high primer could be the culprit.

Is the primer strike centered? It won't be if it was an out of battery discharge.

I agree that it looks to have fired slightly out of battery.  I have never seen it happen myself, but I've heard of it.  The usual result is a misfire.  I have heard of it happening though.  Does this pistol have an aftermarket disconnector?

9mm and 40 S&W are the same pressure.

Can the FP even move forward out of battery?

Theoretically, no, but I had an out of battery primer strike with a G21 once. The gun did not fire, though. It was caused by running a 14 lb recoil spring.

if you look at the pic with the brass in the barrel you can see the case mouth has a space from it to the end of the chamber OOB it was

And you can see the swelled up ring of brass just forward of the rim in the last two pictures.

Comment removed, keep it tech related - Maynard

Comment removed, keep it tech related - Maynard

I'll be damned, you can. I missed that when I was checking it out.

Gun was pretty new. Guns were bought about 3 years ago. We had a new Chief who wanted everyone carrying the same gun, even though policy before that had been that you could carry personally issued. I carried this same gun for about 2 years, till we got yet another new Chief who changed policy back to being able to carry personally issued guns and I started carrying my G19. Gun had about 1000 rds through it and was well taken care of, looking like brand new. I honestly don't think it even had any "character marks" on it when I turned it back in.

Ammo was commercial reloads bought from a local company, 180gr JHP. This particular case was Winchester, which really doesn't mean anything since it is reloaded. I didn't even bother sending it back to Glock, I replaced the extractor, checked it out and test fired it myself. On a side note, although I don't know if they will still do it or not, at one time Glock didn't care if you used reloads in LE pistols, they would fix/replace them anyway in the event of an ammo related problem. That came right from the Instructor in one of my armorer recerts many years ago. I got a pic of the case head and forgot to post it because I was in a hurry.



Primer hit actually looks pretty well centered.

I also got the breech face and, like the case head, I forgot to post it, also. Being in a hurry causes that sometimes as you get older.



Everything checked out as OK after replacing the extractor and a quick test fire confirmed that it functioned just fine. I was going to go on about my .40 hate, but I guess in this case, it doesn't really apply. I have read about Glocks being able to fire slightly out of battery but have never actually seen it nor have I been able to replicate it by holding the slide slightly OOB and trying to pull the trigger. Just a REALLY good case about making sure you use your safety equipment (safety glasses/goggles and hearing protection) when shooting.

Interestingly enough, it was a bad day for guns. That same session, the other guy I took out drew his personally owned, early 3rd Gen G23 and the front sight had taken off for parts unknown. It was an old enough gun that it had the front sight held on with the pin in the bottom of the sight, not a screwed on sight. I had also heard about this with Glocks, but hadn't personally seen it till today. The Officer really needed to qualify with the G23 because he carries it when working his part time job with another Agency and when he gets called out for the County SRT. To his credit, he actually shot it without the front sight and passed the course. His shots were really spread out on the target, but he passed. I tried it after he ran the course and couldn't even hit the preferred area target without the front sight, let alone being able to pass the course. I was duly impressed and made sure and told him I was. He is going on vacation this weekend and is supposed to bring the G23 by so I can replace the front sight for him while he is gone. If he does, I'll get some pics. The gun has the "frying pan" finish and the finish is TRASHED! Worn off of the front, on the angles on the sides, looks like absolute shit. But it still runs well, so I guess that's all that matters.

Bub75

The case was probably a little bulged and kept the round from chambering completely. I've had it happen with 9mm reloads. Luckily for me, the round wouldn't fire.

I have a lot of 9 MM brass which was shot in 2nd and 3 rd Generation S&W which after sizing still would not fit in my Glock 43 barrel.  I just loaded 500 rounds of 9's but I had to cull about 50 pieces because they were to tight in the Glock chamber and would not fully seat.  I plan on keeping my Glock brass separate from other brass shot in my S&W.  I could see this causing the OOB on this Glock since it was re manufactured ammo.  No matter how I adjusted my carbide sizing die I could not get a lot of these cases to fit the Glock chamber.  Fortunately all my 40 brass was shot in Glocks and I haven't had any problems with my 40 hand loads.

Interesting, huh? They're the reason I don't shoot Freedom Munitions reloads anymore.

Is there a quality replacement barrel available for the g23 that would prevent this type of kaboom.

Txl

Do you know if this happened when the officer pulled the trigger for a shot, or if it was a double?  It looks like the firing pin/striker is sticking out from the breech face. No way to tell if it was like that prior to the boom.  Firing pin blocks are supposed to prevent OOB firing. If the slide is OOB, it simply doesn't line up for the block to be pushed out of the way. But if the striker broke or got stuck forward, it could strike the primer while cycling the next round. However, I would actually expect the next round to get caught on the pin tip and fail to feed.

Nope, it was the first round he fired in that particular string of fire. The firing pin sticking out of the breech face like that is completely typical for Glocks after being field stripped. You cycle the action to verify it is clear, pull the trigger, pull the slide back very slightly, pull the takedown latch and slide the slide off. Pull the recoil spring and barrel out and that is how it looks, firing pin sticking out the breech face. Firing pin was just fine, albeit dirty as hell with powder residue and brass shavings from the case head separation. In fact, if the tip of the firing pin isn't sticking out after field stripping, that would be a red flag that something is wrong. You literally cannot get the slide off if the action is (semi) cocked. The trigger bar holding the firing pin back won't let the slide come off the frame. The action has to be completely decocked so that the trigger bar isn't interacting at all with the firing pin in order to remove the slide from the frame, which means the firing pin is sticking out of the breech face. In fact, with the slide off, the spring tension on the firing pin safety actually holds the firing pin sticking out. It only takes a slight push for the firing pin to go back in, but it won't go back in on its own. When the gun is fired and the action cycles, the trigger bar catches the firing pin when the slide comes back forward and holds it so that the firing pin cannot come forward to hit the primer. No, this is a case of firing slightly out of battery.

While the firing pin safety kinda sorta acts to keep the gun from firing out of battery, it isn't reliable for that nor was it designed for that. The real purpose for the firing pin safety is to keep the firing pin from coming forward to hit the primer in the event you drop the gun on the muzzle. If the gun is out of battery enough, then yes, the trigger bar wouldn't contact the firing pin safety. However, you can pull the slide slightly out of battery and the gun can still fire. I've heard and read about OOB problems with Glocks for years but this is the first one I've ever actually seen.

Bub75

Huh. Don't like the grip angle so down own any Glocks. So my experience is the PPQ that requires the trigger pull to disassemble and the firing pin doesn't stick out. I also had a batch of reloads from what used to be a trusted reloader that had some bulged cases. Had run through 700 or so rounds of the case without an issue. Only found out cuz they locked up my PPQ just slightly OOB. The slide and barrel were matched, but the slide wasn't fully forward. Thank goodness the pistol wouldn't fire.

Anyway, none of that helps you since I don't have experience with Glock. Glad no one was hurt. Good luck!

I understand. I have dealt with Glocks for so long that if I strip any of my other guns and the firing pin isn't sticking out, I have to stop and think no, this isn't a Glock. No big deal.

I had the same issue with some of my reloads and bulged cases when I first started reloading. I had done some .45 ACP and didn't get the bullet seated deep enough. All my friends said no problem, just run them back through the seater die and adjust it a little deeper. I did so and ended up with a bunch of cases with bulges at the bottom because I had been reading about having to use a firm crimp on ammo for autos to avoid bullet setback and reasoned that if a firm crimp is good, firmer is better. I had them crimped so firmly that the bullet didn't seat deeper, the cases bulged a little at the bottom. I didn't even notice till one tied up my Glock 21 so badly that I had to push the front of the slide against the 4x4 backstop to get the round unjammed from the chamber.

It could well be a problem with the reloader. I had ordered some .380 FMJ from the same place I got the .40 ammo. I took my LCP out to try it out after I bought the ammo and started having problems with the LCP, where it had never had any problems at all before. Several FTFeed where the round went nose up and was so steep that the nose started into the chamber, then hit the top of the chamber and stopped. I had several FTExtract where the extractor lost the case and left it partially in the chamber. When I went back to factory FMJ, the issues stopped, so it wasn't the gun. Guess I'll have to check a few boxes of the .40 when I get a chance and see if there are any issues. I also think that when I order ammo next year, we'll go back to buying factory ammo on the State bid. New stuff that I can buy for the PD (if it is for PD use, the PD doesn't pay excise taxes) for about the same price as these reloads, maybe even less. The Chief wanted to help support a local company, which I understand and completely agree with, but if we're going to have ammo issues, then we're going back to what I know works and that we'll have factory support for if we do have issues.

Bub75

At my first agency, we used commercial reloads for training and while they were generally good, we had problems from time to time. That company y is no longer in business.
My current department and last, we all used factory ammo. Other than finding one set back bullet in a new box of Winchester 165 FMJ, we have not had any issues.

I thin we were truly blessed we did not lose any guns  while using the commercial reloads.

I really wish people would stop perpetuating this mis-information......
Unless it's prior to 2003 the support has been fixed. And if you want to make sure it's fixed buy a factory barrel for less then $100.
Gen4's certainly have perfectly fine case support!

Actually, its not misinformation when talking about older .40 Glocks. I had an older 2nd Gen G23 that had absolute shit case head support that blew up. And, if you read my first post, I noted that Gen4 .40s, in particular, have pretty good case head support. Glock did fix the issue but, in typical Glock fashion, they never notified anyone, they just did it. I like Glocks (in 9mm and .45) but absolutely HATE .40 guns. Why should I have to buy a new barrel to fix their issue?

Bub75

I would be curious as to how it was able to fire out of battery. Using snap caps, I have never been able to get a glock or any of my pistols to fired OOB, not even slightly OOB.

I may be paranoid but I do the drop/plunk test with every round, and I only shoot factory ammo. Dropping 50 rds. in a barrel takes no time, plus you get to inspect each round for defects prior to loading the magazine.