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Posted: 12/24/2014 11:35:34 AM EDT
[#1]
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Wat? I got 6 MOA with the M&P9 at 25 and 8 MOA with the G17 at the same distance. The M&P is hands down the winner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I believe the 9 accuracy issues. The two FS9s I owned had terrible accuracy with the first one getting an average of 8-10" groups at 15 yards. Even after a barrel swap in the original it only went down to 6" groups with any brand or weight of ammo. I had a 9c that got 4" groups at 15 yards with any brand or weight of ammo. I had a Shield that was good for 3-4" groups at 15 yards, but it was still unacceptable. I then bought a used FS45 and it's a tack driver. I then found another used FS45 and it's a tack driver as well. Bottom line is my M&Ps will only be in 45acp and my Glocks will only be in 9mm. I got 6 MOA with the M&P9 at 25 and 8 MOA with the G17 at the same distance. The M&P is hands down the winner. I'm not joking. I sent the original FS9 back twice to S&W. First time they adjusted the rear sight to shoot to far to the left, the second time they replaced the barrel after I requested it. The patterns were all a perfect circle splatter pattern, not left, right, low or high. I used 124gr. +P HST and PDX-1, 124gr. FMJ RWS, 115gr. FMJ Federal, Winchester and S&B and 147gr. Gold Dots. I shot all of that ammo in all of the M&P 9s. I gave up on the FS9s which is why I went with the 9c. That turned out to have poor accuracy although much improved from the FS9s I had. Then I got the Shield and noticed it wasn't all that accurate either. I own many different brands of guns so this isn't a brand thing, especially since my M&P FS45 is just awesome when it comes to accuracy. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 11:36:44 AM EDT
[#2]
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I'm not joking. I sent the original FS9 back twice to S&W. First time they adjusted the rear sight to shoot to far to the left, the second time they replaced the barrel after I requested it. The patterns were all a perfect circle splatter pattern, not left, right, low or high. I used 124gr. +P HST and PDX-1, 124gr. FMJ RWS, 115gr. FMJ Federal, Winchester and S&B and 147gr. Gold Dots. I shot all of that ammo in all of the M&P 9s. I gave up on the FS9s which is why I went with the 9c. That turned out to have poor accuracy although much improved from the FS9s I had. Then I got the Shield and noticed it wasn't all that accurate either. I own many different brands of guns so this isn't a brand thing, especially since my M&P FS45 is just awesome when it comes to accuracy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I believe the 9 accuracy issues. The two FS9s I owned had terrible accuracy with the first one getting an average of 8-10" groups at 15 yards. Even after a barrel swap in the original it only went down to 6" groups with any brand or weight of ammo. I had a 9c that got 4" groups at 15 yards with any brand or weight of ammo. I had a Shield that was good for 3-4" groups at 15 yards, but it was still unacceptable. I then bought a used FS45 and it's a tack driver. I then found another used FS45 and it's a tack driver as well. Bottom line is my M&Ps will only be in 45acp and my Glocks will only be in 9mm. I got 6 MOA with the M&P9 at 25 and 8 MOA with the G17 at the same distance. The M&P is hands down the winner. I'm not joking. I sent the original FS9 back twice to S&W. First time they adjusted the rear sight to shoot to far to the left, the second time they replaced the barrel after I requested it. The patterns were all a perfect circle splatter pattern, not left, right, low or high. I used 124gr. +P HST and PDX-1, 124gr. FMJ RWS, 115gr. FMJ Federal, Winchester and S&B and 147gr. Gold Dots. I shot all of that ammo in all of the M&P 9s. I gave up on the FS9s which is why I went with the 9c. That turned out to have poor accuracy although much improved from the FS9s I had. Then I got the Shield and noticed it wasn't all that accurate either. I own many different brands of guns so this isn't a brand thing, especially since my M&P FS45 is just awesome when it comes to accuracy. Did you ever slug your barrel to determine groove and bore size? |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 12:13:41 PM EDT
[#3]
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I have owned S&W products since I first started shooting and I have no idea who this person is that did this review, I must not be in crowd of knowing who this is. Can someone just give me a quick run down of who Costa is and why should his handful of guns that he just post in a blog that are bad is important? http://www.costaludus.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=4 |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 1:07:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wat? I got 6 MOA with the M&P9 at 25 and 8 MOA with the G17 at the same distance. The M&P is hands down the winner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I believe the 9 accuracy issues. The two FS9s I owned had terrible accuracy with the first one getting an average of 8-10" groups at 15 yards. Even after a barrel swap in the original it only went down to 6" groups with any brand or weight of ammo. I had a 9c that got 4" groups at 15 yards with any brand or weight of ammo. I had a Shield that was good for 3-4" groups at 15 yards, but it was still unacceptable. I then bought a used FS45 and it's a tack driver. I then found another used FS45 and it's a tack driver as well. Bottom line is my M&Ps will only be in 45acp and my Glocks will only be in 9mm. I got 6 MOA with the M&P9 at 25 and 8 MOA with the G17 at the same distance. The M&P is hands down the winner. Sounds like two lemons. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 1:58:21 PM EDT
[#5]
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He's former Coast Guard, no combat time, and arf for the most worships him. That C clamp grip on the AR? Yep, you can thank him for that of which arf adores. Myself I don't take him serious, so I have no opinion or dog in his reviews...but now I seriously question him because I'd like to see this gun and what broke if it broke. Integrity on reviews is everything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have owned S&W products since I first started shooting and I have no idea who this person is that did this review, I must not be in crowd of knowing who this is. Can someone just give me a quick run down of who Costa is and why should his handful of guns that he just post in a blog that are bad is important? For the record, he's also probably one of the most fundamentally sound and best shooters I have ever seen, and I'd been lucky enough to train with some of the best. As far as weapons manipulation instructors go (which is what 98% of the available to civvy courses are), he is one of the best instructors you will find, period. Tactics wise, I can't speak to him or many other instructors, because despite what your average class-taking arf commando would want the world to believe, a weapons manipulation course doesn't teach you how to fight with a gun. For the type of course he is teaching, I am sure his background is just fine....and I'd be the training he received doing what he did was enough to give him some pretty sound tactics too. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 2:07:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the record, he's also probably one of the most fundamentally sound and best shooters I have ever seen, and I'd been lucky enough to train with some of the best. As far as weapons manipulation instructors go (which is what 98% of the available to civvy courses are), he is one of the best instructors you will find, period. Tactics wise, I can't speak to him or many other instructors, because despite what your average class-taking arf commando would want the world to believe, a weapons manipulation course doesn't teach you how to fight with a gun. For the type of course he is teaching, I am sure his background is just fine....and I'd be the training he received doing what he did was enough to give him some pretty sound tactics too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have owned S&W products since I first started shooting and I have no idea who this person is that did this review, I must not be in crowd of knowing who this is. Can someone just give me a quick run down of who Costa is and why should his handful of guns that he just post in a blog that are bad is important? For the record, he's also probably one of the most fundamentally sound and best shooters I have ever seen, and I'd been lucky enough to train with some of the best. As far as weapons manipulation instructors go (which is what 98% of the available to civvy courses are), he is one of the best instructors you will find, period. Tactics wise, I can't speak to him or many other instructors, because despite what your average class-taking arf commando would want the world to believe, a weapons manipulation course doesn't teach you how to fight with a gun. For the type of course he is teaching, I am sure his background is just fine....and I'd be the training he received doing what he did was enough to give him some pretty sound tactics too. I'd like to see this pistol, I own a few M&P's, so no pistol and damage is relevant to me, which brings an integrity issue. I do not take things as gospel. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 2:42:36 PM EDT
[#7]
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Did you ever slug your barrel to determine groove and bore size? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I believe the 9 accuracy issues. The two FS9s I owned had terrible accuracy with the first one getting an average of 8-10" groups at 15 yards. Even after a barrel swap in the original it only went down to 6" groups with any brand or weight of ammo. I had a 9c that got 4" groups at 15 yards with any brand or weight of ammo. I had a Shield that was good for 3-4" groups at 15 yards, but it was still unacceptable. I then bought a used FS45 and it's a tack driver. I then found another used FS45 and it's a tack driver as well. Bottom line is my M&Ps will only be in 45acp and my Glocks will only be in 9mm. I got 6 MOA with the M&P9 at 25 and 8 MOA with the G17 at the same distance. The M&P is hands down the winner. I'm not joking. I sent the original FS9 back twice to S&W. First time they adjusted the rear sight to shoot to far to the left, the second time they replaced the barrel after I requested it. The patterns were all a perfect circle splatter pattern, not left, right, low or high. I used 124gr. +P HST and PDX-1, 124gr. FMJ RWS, 115gr. FMJ Federal, Winchester and S&B and 147gr. Gold Dots. I shot all of that ammo in all of the M&P 9s. I gave up on the FS9s which is why I went with the 9c. That turned out to have poor accuracy although much improved from the FS9s I had. Then I got the Shield and noticed it wasn't all that accurate either. I own many different brands of guns so this isn't a brand thing, especially since my M&P FS45 is just awesome when it comes to accuracy. Did you ever slug your barrel to determine groove and bore size? No I didn't, but the first FS9 I sent in went down to a 6" group after the new barrel so there was a major problem with the original. The accuracy went from terrible to not that great between all four 9mm models, but the FS45 is perfect. Compared to my other dozen plus 9mm handguns in different sizes and brands, they were the worse. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 2:51:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Call me naive, but I would not worry about this in the least. Any quality firearms manufacturer, Glock, S&W, ect, is going to stand behind their product if there is an issue. Worst case scenario, they replace your barrel if something is off about a given batch.
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Posted: 12/24/2014 3:11:45 PM EDT
[#9]
People are far too emotionally invested in their chosen guns. Many manufacturers have ongoing issues with certain products. Glock had trouble with the .40 guns for years, and then when they optimized the design for .40 with the Gen 4, they started having issues with the 9mm that they eventually got sorted out. It's no secret that there have been QC and design issues with the M&P that Smith has been working on over the years, particularly with the 9mm models.
I neither like nor dislike Costa (although I have no use for the "reach-around" rifle grip), but I do think the guy knows guns, and I can't think of any particular reason he'd make this up. Everyone jumping to the "Smith must not be paying him anymore" conclusion clearly does not know the importance of not burning bridges. Costa knows that, and that's why he's made a lot of money. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 3:22:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Has anyone seen anything like what was being described?
This is the 3rd gun in 9mm I’ve seen shotgun the target at 7 yards. Barrels are breaking apart at the crown Pix of this would be appreciated so that we truly know WTF is being discussed. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 4:00:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the record, he's also probably one of the most fundamentally sound and best shooters I have ever seen, and I'd been lucky enough to train with some of the best. As far as weapons manipulation instructors go (which is what 98% of the available to civvy courses are), he is one of the best instructors you will find, period. Tactics wise, I can't speak to him or many other instructors, because despite what your average class-taking arf commando would want the world to believe, a weapons manipulation course doesn't teach you how to fight with a gun. For the type of course he is teaching, I am sure his background is just fine....and I'd be the training he received doing what he did was enough to give him some pretty sound tactics too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have owned S&W products since I first started shooting and I have no idea who this person is that did this review, I must not be in crowd of knowing who this is. Can someone just give me a quick run down of who Costa is and why should his handful of guns that he just post in a blog that are bad is important? For the record, he's also probably one of the most fundamentally sound and best shooters I have ever seen, and I'd been lucky enough to train with some of the best. As far as weapons manipulation instructors go (which is what 98% of the available to civvy courses are), he is one of the best instructors you will find, period. Tactics wise, I can't speak to him or many other instructors, because despite what your average class-taking arf commando would want the world to believe, a weapons manipulation course doesn't teach you how to fight with a gun. For the type of course he is teaching, I am sure his background is just fine....and I'd be the training he received doing what he did was enough to give him some pretty sound tactics too. 100% agree. He's also one of the most likeable people you can train with. Can't get my head around all the negative sentiment towards him. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 4:13:47 PM EDT
[#12]
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100% agree. He's also one of the most likeable people you can train with. Can't get my head around all the negative sentiment towards him. Edit: Leave the funny pics for GD. - Maynard |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 5:07:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's former Coast Guard, no combat time, and arf for the most worships him. That C clamp grip on the AR? Yep, you can thank him for that of which arf adores. Myself I don't take him serious, so I have no opinion or dog in his reviews...but now I seriously question him because I'd like to see this gun and what broke if it broke. Integrity on reviews is everything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have owned S&W products since I first started shooting and I have no idea who this person is that did this review, I must not be in crowd of knowing who this is. Can someone just give me a quick run down of who Costa is and why should his handful of guns that he just post in a blog that are bad is important? Hes not a former CAG guy, but he's so a very knowledgeable and experienced guy. Prior to Costa Ludus, Chris Costa spent 4 years as the President of Magpul Dynamics. Before founding Magpul Dynamics, Costa spent 7 years in the private sector at Applied Marine Technologies Inc. (AMTI) on assignment with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Risk Management Division (RMD). At AMTI, Costa specialized in teaching Police Tactical Assault Operations for both Maritime and Critical Infrastructure take-back. Costa also provided Red Team Vulnerability Assessments on critical infrastructures for the US Government. Prior to this, Costa spent 12 years with the United States Coast Guard, conducting counter-drug operations and special missions in Europe, the Middle East, and South America with such units as: the International Training Division (ITD), Maritime Law Enforcement Academy, Plank-Owner of Port Security Unit 302, and the Taclet Law Enforcement Team North. He's also a very proficient shooter and instructor. But sure, you don't like the style of shooting he's a proponant of so he's obviously not qualified to teach people how to pull a trigger. Hes not teaching people how to react to an ambush. From everything I've seen he teaches well within his lane and is up to the student to apply the specifics of their problems (combat, police work, competition) to the pure shooting skills he teaches. To many here think being combat is the goal of shooting. Shooting is just one of many SKILLS that had to be adapted to the PROBLEM of combat. The goal of shooting is putting rounds on target accurately and quickly. All applications of shooting have problems that need to be adapted to. Infantry work is fat from the only problem where the skill set of shooting is used. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 7:58:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Cool story, I still don't care for him.
Now where are the pictures for reference of these faults? |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 8:05:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prior to Costa Ludus, Chris Costa spent 4 years as the President of Magpul Dynamics. Before founding Magpul Dynamics, Costa spent 7 years in the private sector at Applied Marine Technologies Inc. (AMTI) on assignment with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Risk Management Division (RMD). At AMTI, Costa specialized in teaching Police Tactical Assault Operations for both Maritime and Critical Infrastructure take-back. Costa also provided Red Team Vulnerability Assessments on critical infrastructures for the US Government. Cannot speak to his shooting abilities but I have done risk management and critical vulnerability assessments for strategic assets before and that really has nothing nothing to do with gun fighting or tactics but instead with observation and filling out check lists. I guess it sounds good on a BIO or CV though. |
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Posted: 12/24/2014 11:56:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like two lemons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wat? I got 6 MOA with the M&P9 at 25 and 8 MOA with the G17 at the same distance. The M&P is hands down the winner. Sounds like two lemons. |
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Posted: 12/25/2014 6:08:34 PM EDT
[#17]
This is not meant to be funny, but this is the man for those that don't recognise the name.
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Posted: 12/25/2014 6:58:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has anyone seen anything like what was being described? Pix of this would be appreciated so that we truly know WTF is being discussed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has anyone seen anything like what was being described? This is the 3rd gun in 9mm I’ve seen shotgun the target at 7 yards. Barrels are breaking apart at the crown Pix of this would be appreciated so that we truly know WTF is being discussed. I have been around a lot of M&P's in USPSA, not to mention the 5 I own which have tens of thousands of rounds through them. Not once I have seen any crowns coming apart in real life or on the web. Now I have seen jacket bullets fragment like that. I personally have had Berry's plated and the bi-metal jacket of Tula fragment into a target, slicing it like the photos posted. |
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Posted: 12/25/2014 10:59:29 PM EDT
[#19]
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I have been around a lot of M&P's in USPSA, not to mention the 5 I own which have tens of thousands of rounds through them. Not once I have seen any crowns coming apart in real life or on the web. Now I have seen jacket bullets fragment like that. I personally have had Berry's plated and the bi-metal jacket of Tula fragment into a target, slicing it like the photos posted. Didn't he say all the affected pistols had 500 or less rnds on them, IE: new production..... |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 12:24:07 AM EDT
[#20]
This thread is about stupid with all the naysayers rushing in to criticize the m&p. Uh, haven't we seen a good number of glock kabooms? I think I have seen more in glock than any other handgun. Does it make it a bad pistol? No, just capable of having an issue with a certain ammo. EVERY firearm is capable of problems because they, and the ammo that goes into them, has a large human element in their production. So SW may have let a bad run of barrels leave the factory. I'm sure they will make it right. I've never had to use their CS because my two m&p's have been flawless. Am I a fanboy? Don't think so. I use what works best for me. Tried glock, tired xd's and others and the m&p works best for me, especially after a few upgrades. Is it perfect? No, nothing is, not glock or even the 1911. People need to chill the fuck out instead of trying to make a rush judgement on the gun or the person who reported the problem. Some of you act like a bunch of antis with your ridiculous arguments.
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Posted: 12/26/2014 3:34:09 AM EDT
[#21]
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I will be citing his post for years to come in glock vs m&p discussions!!! Haha Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1700386_My_Glock_23_broke_yesterday____bummer_.html&page=1 Haha, now what? |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 11:17:35 AM EDT
[#22]
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Didn't he say all the affected pistols had 500 or less rnds on them, IE: new production..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have been around a lot of M&P's in USPSA, not to mention the 5 I own which have tens of thousands of rounds through them. Not once I have seen any crowns coming apart in real life or on the web. Now I have seen jacket bullets fragment like that. I personally have had Berry's plated and the bi-metal jacket of Tula fragment into a target, slicing it like the photos posted. Didn't he say all the affected pistols had 500 or less rnds on them, IE: new production..... Just because a gun has 500 rounds through it does not mean its new production. There are all kinds of guns out there that are 20 years old, the don't even have a hundred rounds run through it. I would still like to see pictures of these so-called crowns that are disintegrating. |
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Posted: 12/26/2014 1:26:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Couple pics of my new production M&P's. Shit happens. Yes S&W will take care of it but don't hold your breath on getting it back.
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Posted: 12/26/2014 6:09:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wat? I got 6 MOA with the M&P9 at 25 and 8 MOA with the G17 at the same distance. The M&P is hands down the winner. Me? I like both the M&P and Glock, but completely discounting a handgun due to 1/2" difference at 25 yards? You must be a very precise shooter! |
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:39:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Here is what a split muzzle on another make of pistol looks like. A squib load followed by a normal round. Fortunately, the shooter was not hurt and the pistol has a regardless lifetime warranty.
We really need to see a pix of this muzzle to understand the full context of the statement. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 11:05:34 AM EDT
[#26]
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And I will cite this years to come in replies!!! http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1700386_My_Glock_23_broke_yesterday____bummer_.html&page=1 Haha, now what? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will be citing his post for years to come in glock vs m&p discussions!!! Haha Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1700386_My_Glock_23_broke_yesterday____bummer_.html&page=1 Haha, now what? 1) .40 glock is not part of Glock 9mm master race 2) Not posted by ninja-delta coastie instructor ... no cares given. 
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Posted: 12/29/2014 11:55:31 AM EDT
[#27]
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1) .40 glock is not part of Glock 9mm master race 2) Not posted by ninja-delta coastie instructor ... no cares given.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will be citing his post for years to come in glock vs m&p discussions!!! Haha Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1700386_My_Glock_23_broke_yesterday____bummer_.html&page=1 Haha, now what? 1) .40 glock is not part of Glock 9mm master race 2) Not posted by ninja-delta coastie instructor ... no cares given.
No such thing as a master race pistol, physics, ever heard of it? Everything breaks over time. EVERYTHING. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 11:12:45 AM EDT
[#28]
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For the record, he's also probably one of the most fundamentally sound and best shooters I have ever seen, and I'd been lucky enough to train with some of the best. As far as weapons manipulation instructors go (which is what 98% of the available to civvy courses are), he is one of the best instructors you will find, period. Tactics wise, I can't speak to him or many other instructors, because despite what your average class-taking arf commando would want the world to believe, a weapons manipulation course doesn't teach you how to fight with a gun. For the type of course he is teaching, I am sure his background is just fine....and I'd be the training he received doing what he did was enough to give him some pretty sound tactics too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have owned S&W products since I first started shooting and I have no idea who this person is that did this review, I must not be in crowd of knowing who this is. Can someone just give me a quick run down of who Costa is and why should his handful of guns that he just post in a blog that are bad is important? For the record, he's also probably one of the most fundamentally sound and best shooters I have ever seen, and I'd been lucky enough to train with some of the best. As far as weapons manipulation instructors go (which is what 98% of the available to civvy courses are), he is one of the best instructors you will find, period. Tactics wise, I can't speak to him or many other instructors, because despite what your average class-taking arf commando would want the world to believe, a weapons manipulation course doesn't teach you how to fight with a gun. For the type of course he is teaching, I am sure his background is just fine....and I'd be the training he received doing what he did was enough to give him some pretty sound tactics too. From when I spoke with him he talked about his time doing drug interdiction work. Including quite a bit in South America apparently working with locals on land, which was apparently very frowned upon by those in DC and was discovered by accident when someone forgot to remove his insignia and was seen on the news. I believe it lead to someones early retirement/firing, though it's been many years so pardon me if the details are fuzzy. I guess my point is while he may not have seen "combat" he has been in harms way. I certainly don't see that as a reason to discount him, I found him to be extraordinarily competent in his training in my limited experience. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 11:20:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From when I spoke with him he talked about his time doing drug interdiction work. Including quite a bit in South America apparently working with locals on land, which was apparently very frowned upon by those in DC and was discovered by accident when someone forgot to remove his insignia and was seen on the news. I believe it lead to someones early retirement/firing, though it's been many years so pardon me if the details are fuzzy. I guess my point is while he may not have seen "combat" he has been in harms way. I certainly don't see that as a reason to discount him, I found him to be extraordinarily competent in his training in my limited experience. What? |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 11:23:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From when I spoke with him he talked about his time doing drug interdiction work. Including quite a bit in South America apparently working with locals on land, which was apparently very frowned upon by those in DC and was discovered by accident when someone forgot to remove his insignia and was seen on the news. I believe it lead to someones early retirement/firing, though it's been many years so pardon me if the details are fuzzy. I guess my point is while he may not have seen "combat" he has been in harms way. I certainly don't see that as a reason to discount him, I found him to be extraordinarily competent in his training in my limited experience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have owned S&W products since I first started shooting and I have no idea who this person is that did this review, I must not be in crowd of knowing who this is. Can someone just give me a quick run down of who Costa is and why should his handful of guns that he just post in a blog that are bad is important? For the record, he's also probably one of the most fundamentally sound and best shooters I have ever seen, and I'd been lucky enough to train with some of the best. As far as weapons manipulation instructors go (which is what 98% of the available to civvy courses are), he is one of the best instructors you will find, period. Tactics wise, I can't speak to him or many other instructors, because despite what your average class-taking arf commando would want the world to believe, a weapons manipulation course doesn't teach you how to fight with a gun. For the type of course he is teaching, I am sure his background is just fine....and I'd be the training he received doing what he did was enough to give him some pretty sound tactics too. From when I spoke with him he talked about his time doing drug interdiction work. Including quite a bit in South America apparently working with locals on land, which was apparently very frowned upon by those in DC and was discovered by accident when someone forgot to remove his insignia and was seen on the news. I believe it lead to someones early retirement/firing, though it's been many years so pardon me if the details are fuzzy. I guess my point is while he may not have seen "combat" he has been in harms way. I certainly don't see that as a reason to discount him, I found him to be extraordinarily competent in his training in my limited experience. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 11:34:06 AM EDT
[#31]
The conversation has devolved to Costa's background and is no longer tech related.
Let's get it back on track. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 2:01:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The conversation has devolved to Costa's background and is no longer tech related. Let's get it back on track. Indeed. I wonder, if there actually is an issue with certain M&Ps, if they found themselves in the hands of law enforcement. That would be a good way to figure out whether or not this is a trend of just coincidence. |
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Posted: 12/30/2014 2:08:29 PM EDT
[#33]
EDIT: NM, no point in derailing the thread. If something is unclear I'd be happy to take it to IM.
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Posted: 12/30/2014 11:10:42 PM EDT
[#34]
So typical of people in this board. Costa could out "operate" 99.9% of people on this board. Who cares if he was a coastie, a marine or a mall cop. Guy is still good at what he does and knows hiis shit.
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Posted: 12/30/2014 11:32:38 PM EDT
[#35]
here's the benchrested 25 yard groups from my M&P 40. The poor accuracy was very noticeable shooting offhand as well. notice how the shots are mostly high. the barrel "unlocks" from the slide and begins tilting before the bullet has left the barrel. what pisses me off is S&W is putting these CRAP pistols into the hands of LE. it's a warmed over SMEGMA.
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Posted: 12/31/2014 1:12:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
here's the benchrested 25 yard groups from my M&P 40. The poor accuracy was very noticeable shooting offhand as well. notice how the shots are mostly high. the barrel "unlocks" from the slide and begins tilting before the bullet has left the barrel. what pisses me off is S&W is putting these CRAP pistols into the hands of LE. it's a warmed over SMEGMA. http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l69/rocketfish_2006/DSC00244.jpg?1419996431638 Never seen or even heard of a 40 with accuracy issues. Just saying. |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 10:13:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
here's the benchrested 25 yard groups from my M&P 40. The poor accuracy was very noticeable shooting offhand as well. notice how the shots are mostly high. the barrel "unlocks" from the slide and begins tilting before the bullet has left the barrel. what pisses me off is S&W is putting these CRAP pistols into the hands of LE. it's a warmed over SMEGMA. http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l69/rocketfish_2006/DSC00244.jpg?1419996431638 |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 10:14:24 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
snip |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 10:24:12 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So typical of people in this board. Costa could out "operate" 99.9% of people on this board. Who cares if he was a coastie, a marine or a mall cop. Guy is still good at what he does and knows hiis shit. What does out operate mean? |
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Posted: 12/31/2014 10:26:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Derailed
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