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Posted: 11/10/2014 11:38:44 PM EDT
Now that I have access to a range that allow's me to draw from my holster and shoot as many steel targets as I please ( ) I find myself practicing reloading just as much.....however, the ground is concrete, not dirt or grass.....Maybe this is nothing to fret about, but considering mags are 40+ bucks should I be more aware of letting them just drop to the ground on such a hard surface?

Link Posted: 11/10/2014 11:49:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Mags are meant to hit the ground, and as long as you aren't dropping them loaded (which completely screws up the balance and how they drop) they should hit base plate first.  If it really concerns you, pick up some carpet remnants you can take with you to the range, and just throw them down in front of you when you are going to be dropping mags.
Link Posted: 11/10/2014 11:56:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes I do.


...but they are range magazines.
Link Posted: 11/10/2014 11:59:54 PM EDT
[#3]
I customized my dump pouch to practically hover around my magwell.
Link Posted: 11/11/2014 12:11:02 AM EDT
[#4]
Get a scrap piece of carpet to throw down if you are worried about mags hitting the concrete....don't over complicate things.
Link Posted: 11/11/2014 12:33:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Empty mags on concrete should be no problem. I dropped G21 mags on asphalt 4 days in a row at MAG-40, no problems.
Link Posted: 11/11/2014 2:56:48 AM EDT
[#6]
It depends on the mags and their replacement costs.  I don't worry about empty plastic mags falling.  Even partially loaded plastic mags falling on concrete can take a beating without too much fuss.

Metal mags with metal base pads are where I try a little harder.  Back when I carried SIG handguns, their mags were expensive and had metal floor plates.  Sure, they could survive a fall on concrete, but it would dent and mar up the mag bottoms.  Sometimes the dents would be bad enough the floor plates couldn't be easily removed for cleaning.  Those SIG zippered backed mags were not cheap even back then.  A trick we used at range day would be to bring a roll of weather stripping foam.  I'll post a pic bellow; its available at any hardware store.  Basically we'd cut a piece long enough for the mag bottom, then peal the tape off and stick it on the mag base.  It would last the day, and if not, just get a new piece.  It did a decent job of keeping the mag bases from getting too banged up.  The roll lasted a long time and was shared among multiple shooters.  Just another idea out there to ponder.

Link Posted: 11/11/2014 3:06:10 AM EDT
[#7]
i just let mine hit the ground, but to be fair, most of my range mags are kind of rough. but that is because they are actually used to shoot
Link Posted: 11/11/2014 3:27:06 AM EDT
[#8]
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Empty mags on concrete should be no problem. I dropped G21 mags on asphalt 4 days in a row at MAG-40, no problems.
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Because they are Glock mags.
You can dump Glock mags on concrete all day long without issue.
A lot of all-metal mags don't fare so well, with the base plates dislodging and the resulting jack-in-the-box reaction.
Link Posted: 11/11/2014 11:13:45 AM EDT
[#9]
My range has some grass and soft sand caliche mix so dropping has never been any issue.
Link Posted: 11/11/2014 4:03:30 PM EDT
[#10]
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Get a scrap piece of carpet to throw down if you are worried about mags hitting the concrete....don't over complicate things.
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This is the answer.
Link Posted: 11/12/2014 4:07:24 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

This is the answer.
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Quoted:
Get a scrap piece of carpet to throw down if you are worried about mags hitting the concrete....don't over complicate things.

This is the answer.


Yep.

To the people saying "mags are meant to hit the ground", that's true, but mags are also meant to be disposable. Take care of them and you won't have to replace them so often. Try not to drop them directly on hard concrete if you can avoid it
Link Posted: 11/12/2014 4:28:30 AM EDT
[#12]
I don't worry about where most all of my various mags drop.  I don't want to induce a training scar and start worrying about where stuff is going to drop.   Mags are relatively cheap and I've never damaged any from dropping.   The only ones I worry about are my P6 mags as they haven't been made in a while and are way expensive for a single stack pistol mag.  

Where I've found mags more often get damaged is when people step on them while doing moving drills or courses of fire.  

Link Posted: 11/12/2014 4:43:47 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:


Because they are Glock mags.
You can dump Glock mags on concrete all day long without issue.
A lot of all-metal mags don't fare so well, with the base plates dislodging and the resulting jack-in-the-box reaction.
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Empty mags on concrete should be no problem. I dropped G21 mags on asphalt 4 days in a row at MAG-40, no problems.


Because they are Glock mags.
You can dump Glock mags on concrete all day long without issue.
A lot of all-metal mags don't fare so well, with the base plates dislodging and the resulting jack-in-the-box reaction.


Others with 1911s, M&Ps, a USP, a CZ-75 and a Walther P99 IIRC seemed to have no problems.
Link Posted: 11/12/2014 5:55:40 AM EDT
[#14]
Sounds like the perfect place to practice tactical reloads anyone can do speed reloads
Link Posted: 11/12/2014 9:05:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Put down a pad if it bothers you.

I've dropped my mags onto just about every surface know to man. My mags usally go about 100 each when set up.
Link Posted: 11/12/2014 10:26:06 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Sounds like the perfect place to practice tactical reloads anyone can do speed reloads
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This.
Exackitickly what are you really learning by allowing your mags to drop to the ground?

This is my attitude.
I have read lots of posts about how guys routinely “train” by dropping mags on the ground, stepping on then, letting them fill up w/dirt, etc.  All this is well and good except that my experience with semi-automatic weapons has taught me that it’s a faulty assumption to assume that a solid, perfectly functioning magazine can be easily replaced with a new, equally good one.  This isn’t necessarily true.  Older, but totally good, equipment goes out of production and manufacturers also routinely make subtle changes to their products that can negatively affect how well they will work in any particular firearm.  And then there is always politics.  Panic buying can dry up supply and new laws can eliminate supply.  And then there is also the little point about whether or not one is made of money and can afford to just keep replacing good equipment.
The approach that I have found works best is to figure out what works best with a particular firearm, then in a timely manner buy as many identical spares as I think I will ever need, and then take care of them.
I treat perfectly functioning magazines with respect until the day comes when I can’t.  
The magazine is the weakest link in a semiautomatic weapons system.  My advice is to be careful about wearing out your best equipment in “training and practice” (fun stuff) and then not having it available when your life depends upon it.

Link Posted: 11/12/2014 11:05:42 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


This.
Exackitickly what are you really learning by allowing your mags to drop to the ground?

This is my attitude.
I have read lots of posts about how guys routinely “train” by dropping mags on the ground, stepping on then, letting them fill up w/dirt, etc.  All this is well and good except that my experience with semi-automatic weapons has taught me that it’s a faulty assumption to assume that a solid, perfectly functioning magazine can be easily replaced with a new, equally good one.  This isn’t necessarily true.  Older, but totally good, equipment goes out of production and manufacturers also routinely make subtle changes to their products that can negatively affect how well they will work in any particular firearm.  And then there is always politics.  Panic buying can dry up supply and new laws can eliminate supply.  And then there is also the little point about whether or not one is made of money and can afford to just keep replacing good equipment.
The approach that I have found works best is to figure out what works best with a particular firearm, then in a timely manner buy as many identical spares as I think I will ever need, and then take care of them.
I treat perfectly functioning magazines with respect until the day comes when I can’t.  
The magazine is the weakest link in a semiautomatic weapons system.  My advice is to be careful about wearing out your best equipment in “training and practice” (fun stuff) and then not having it available when your life depends upon it.

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Quoted:
Sounds like the perfect place to practice tactical reloads anyone can do speed reloads


This.
Exackitickly what are you really learning by allowing your mags to drop to the ground?

This is my attitude.
I have read lots of posts about how guys routinely “train” by dropping mags on the ground, stepping on then, letting them fill up w/dirt, etc.  All this is well and good except that my experience with semi-automatic weapons has taught me that it’s a faulty assumption to assume that a solid, perfectly functioning magazine can be easily replaced with a new, equally good one.  This isn’t necessarily true.  Older, but totally good, equipment goes out of production and manufacturers also routinely make subtle changes to their products that can negatively affect how well they will work in any particular firearm.  And then there is always politics.  Panic buying can dry up supply and new laws can eliminate supply.  And then there is also the little point about whether or not one is made of money and can afford to just keep replacing good equipment.
The approach that I have found works best is to figure out what works best with a particular firearm, then in a timely manner buy as many identical spares as I think I will ever need, and then take care of them.
I treat perfectly functioning magazines with respect until the day comes when I can’t.  
The magazine is the weakest link in a semiautomatic weapons system.  My advice is to be careful about wearing out your best equipment in “training and practice” (fun stuff) and then not having it available when your life depends upon it.



No.

Even though I enjoy shooting and collecting firearms, their primary function is my preservation.  With that in mind, the most important thing when you run dry is getting a full mag in your weapon as fast as possible.  Tactical reloads are fine situation dependent, but you should be training to observe the chamber and then dump the mag/reload when you feel the slide locking back, not worry about your empty mag.  If you train yourself to always retain your mags you will do this in combat.  I've seen it.  It's stupid.  My team trained extensively in reloading, particularly on the move.  It saved my life.  

Most of my mags have rubber base plates (HK).  Those that don't (HiPower) have never had a problem with being dropped.  Rubber attachments to base plates are available, or just go the easy route like the above poster recommended and get some weather stripping.  Training mags and regular (defensive) mags should not mix.  Buy enough that you can train and potentially replace magazines and have others set aside for defensive use.  Mags are cheap now.  Buy them now.
Link Posted: 11/12/2014 11:51:43 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:


This.
Exackitickly what are you really learning by allowing your mags to drop to the ground?

This is my attitude.
I have read lots of posts about how guys routinely “train” by dropping mags on the ground, stepping on then, letting them fill up w/dirt, etc.  All this is well and good except that my experience with semi-automatic weapons has taught me that it’s a faulty assumption to assume that a solid, perfectly functioning magazine can be easily replaced with a new, equally good one.  This isn’t necessarily true.  Older, but totally good, equipment goes out of production and manufacturers also routinely make subtle changes to their products that can negatively affect how well they will work in any particular firearm.  And then there is always politics.  Panic buying can dry up supply and new laws can eliminate supply.  And then there is also the little point about whether or not one is made of money and can afford to just keep replacing good equipment.
The approach that I have found works best is to figure out what works best with a particular firearm, then in a timely manner buy as many identical spares as I think I will ever need, and then take care of them.
I treat perfectly functioning magazines with respect until the day comes when I can’t.  
The magazine is the weakest link in a semiautomatic weapons system.  My advice is to be careful about wearing out your best equipment in “training and practice” (fun stuff) and then not having it available when your life depends upon it.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like the perfect place to practice tactical reloads anyone can do speed reloads


This.
Exackitickly what are you really learning by allowing your mags to drop to the ground?

This is my attitude.
I have read lots of posts about how guys routinely “train” by dropping mags on the ground, stepping on then, letting them fill up w/dirt, etc.  All this is well and good except that my experience with semi-automatic weapons has taught me that it’s a faulty assumption to assume that a solid, perfectly functioning magazine can be easily replaced with a new, equally good one.  This isn’t necessarily true.  Older, but totally good, equipment goes out of production and manufacturers also routinely make subtle changes to their products that can negatively affect how well they will work in any particular firearm.  And then there is always politics.  Panic buying can dry up supply and new laws can eliminate supply.  And then there is also the little point about whether or not one is made of money and can afford to just keep replacing good equipment.
The approach that I have found works best is to figure out what works best with a particular firearm, then in a timely manner buy as many identical spares as I think I will ever need, and then take care of them.
I treat perfectly functioning magazines with respect until the day comes when I can’t.  
The magazine is the weakest link in a semiautomatic weapons system.  My advice is to be careful about wearing out your best equipment in “training and practice” (fun stuff) and then not having it available when your life depends upon it.



While I tend to agree, my "training and practice" is for my actual job...not just, (fun stuff) ....Just never had the pleasure of being over concrete while training until now.
Link Posted: 11/12/2014 10:36:09 PM EDT
[#19]
I've been dropping magazines on the concrete of the indoor range I shoot USPSA matches at for the last 20 years.  Sig, Beretta, STI, SV, various 1911 mags, Glocks, whatever.  Never ruined any of them. The worst thing that ever happened was the corners of some Sig 20 round mags got battered a bit. Still work fine. I've been using those particular Sig mags for 15 years.

I have match mags and carry mags.
Link Posted: 11/12/2014 11:32:12 PM EDT
[#20]
When I used to compete pretty heavily mostly on concrete ranges my 1911 mags started to lose their welded base plates at the damnest times. Like when you reload and the fresh mag you just slammed in. You'd be amazed how fast 8 rounds, a spring, and follower can spit out the base of your gun when that happens. After that I made damn sure I had rubber pads on my baseplates. Concrete eventually will beat the hell outta metal mags.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 7:41:19 PM EDT
[#21]
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If you train yourself to always retain your mags you will do this in combat.
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This is true.  I had to break myself of this habit and it was tough.
Link Posted: 11/13/2014 9:30:51 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:


This is true.  I had to break myself of this habit and it was tough.
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If you train yourself to always retain your mags you will do this in combat.


This is true.  I had to break myself of this habit and it was tough.


I don't care what my mags bounce off of, if they break I'll buy more. I'm not a superfly elite operator but I try to train and practice appropriately. This post on TOS really drove the notion that you'll fight like you train home to me and I hope others take it to heart as well.


Lessons Learned In Combat
I originally wrote and posted this in the AAR for my recent carbine course on the Alumni Forum. It has since been published in the March 2010 issue of SWAT Magazine. Feel free to cross-post or share it where and how you see fit, as I want it to have as much of an impact as possible and drive several key points home on those who go in harms way, both on foreign soil (military and PMCs) and here at home (LEOs and civilian sheepdogs). Combat vets and PMCs, as well as police officers and civilians who've been in a gunfight, also feel free to post your own lessons learned in combat.



Lessons Learned In Combat



Please note that the purpose of this article is not to "blame" the Marine Corps for my injury, or to whine about my circumstances, but instead to impact in a positive manner all of those who go in harms way both on foreign soil (Military and Private Military Contractors) and here at home (Law Enforcement Officers and civilian sheepdogs).


I am a Wounded Warrior. I served as a Marine Rifleman during the initial 2003 invasion of Iraq some 7 years ago, and was severely wounded while engaging the enemy in a gunfight on April 12, 2003 in the city of Al Tarmiyah, a small suburb just northwest of Baghdad.

I just got back into shooting again a little more than a year ago now, and several months ago I attended a Trident Concepts Combative Carbine 1 course instructed by Jeff Gonzales. Prior to attending Jeff’s class I thought I was already extremely competent and deadly with the carbine, but I was very wrong. After completing that 3-day course I can now say with complete confidence that had I somehow been able to attend a Trident Concepts, EAG Tactical, Gunsite, or MagPul Dynamics carbine course (or similar training offered by a quality instructor) before I deployed to war back in 2003, and had been able to learn and put into practice all of the things taught in the carbine courses they offer, I would NOT have been shot in the manner in which I was on that Sunday afternoon in Iraq.

That's not to say I wouldn't have been wounded or killed later on in my deployment or in a subsequent deployment, but I would not have been shot that day and wouldn't be paralyzed from the waist down for the rest of my life, which ultimately means I would’ve been able to continue taking the fight to the enemy for at least a little while longer… possibly even still to this day. For the Military and Law Enforcement Officer readers, and those who are planning on enlisting in either of those fields sometime in the future, please take a minute to let that sink in a bit.

The reason for this belief of mine is fairly simple: When I was engaged in combat the day I was wounded, I made several critical mistakes resulting either from training scars or from simply not being trained how to manipulate and fight with my rifle in the proper manner. I’m well aware that the training, tactics and procedures (TTPs) and Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) have been greatly improved over the past 7 years since I was wounded, but I guarantee that they are still lacking and could continue to be improved upon. There are some things that can truly only be learned through actual combat, but in my opinion and experience there is a lot of enhanced weapons training widely available in the private sector that is simply going to waste and not being implemented in a unit's training and work-up, and should definitely be included as the "standard" in which all abide by. I believe that it will save lives and prevent a lot of men and women from being needlessly wounded or killed. However, once these skills are attained they absolutely have to be practiced on a routine basis, as gunfighting is most definitely a perishable skill.

Below is a summary of the events that I strongly feel led to my being shot that day and permanently paralyzed from the waist down. This is not an "official" After Action Review (AAR) of the entire firefight that my platoon was involved in, but rather a small look at only a few moments of combat involving just myself.


On April 12, 2003, my platoon was involved in a very well executed ambush (the receiving end, unfortunately) in the Iraqi town of Al Tarmiyah. The firefight that ensued would last an astounding 3 hours, which even today is rather uncommon. The firefight was basically my platoon -around 55 Marines- versus roughly 150+ Fedayeen Saddam Fighters, or so I was told several months afterwards. I was also later informed that we killed around 100 of the bastards that day. Thankfully we suffered no Killed In Actions (KIAs), but had several Wounded In Actions (WIAs), mostly from shrapnel from RPGs and hand grenades, with mine being the most severe injury of the day. It was because of engagements such as these that the enemy adapted and quickly learned not to go head-to-head with American forces... or suffer the consequences. Soon thereafter the insurgency began and they started using guerilla tactics, such as performing hit-and-run ambushes and placing Improvised Explosive Devices on the country's roadways to inflict casualties on our side without the grave consequences of head-to-head engagements against us.

We were initially ambushed by Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPGs) and small arms fire from enemy fighters to both our north and south, while dismounted from our Amphibious Assault Vehicles (AAVs) and pulling security in a T-shaped intersection. Soon thereafter my platoon split up and punched outward from the kill zone to take the fight to the enemy in both directions. The bad guys weren't expecting us to be so aggressive. But we were Marine Infantrymen, and they had just pissed us off. We were already aggravated as hell that all of the Abrams tanks and Cobra gunships, which were always positioned just in front of us in our column of vehicles during the march to Baghdad (for obvious reasons), had been "stealing" our kills ever since we’d crossed the border several weeks earlier, so we had literally been hoping that some bad guys would poke us with a stick and pick a fight with us.

About an hour and a half into the fight, I found myself in the backyard of a two-story residence. Five to eight enemy fighters had fled the house after our 0351 Assaultmen fired a Shoulder launched Multi-purpose Assault Weapon (SMAW) rocket into it. About five of them were using an adobe style guesthouse/storage building in the backyard as a makeshift bunker, while other fighters were positioned outside of it. When I entered the backyard, my hasty “plan” was to either find something to use as cover while I engaged the bunker, or to make entry inside the house and shoot out of a window or door. I just knew that I needed to find some cover so I could kill some of the bastards from relative safety.

As I rounded the corner of the house and entered the backyard, I immediately spotted an enemy fighter roughly 20 yards away at my 11 o'clock, low-crawling away from the bunker and dragging an AK47 with him. I assumed he was doing exactly what I was doing: trying to get into a better position to kill his enemy.

I stopped moving immediately and began engaging him. I fired at least 15 rounds at him, with most of the bullets impacting his body. Each time I scored a hit, his body let me know it by violently thrashing around. My adrenaline was pumping like crazy, which is why I continued to pummel him with rounds. I had never engaged an enemy that close before, and this was the very first time I could actually see my bullets impacting another human being's flesh. It was just such a shock to my psyche and I didn't know what else to do other than completely annihilate the threat in front of me. The only reason I quit firing is because another fighter stepped halfway out of the doorway to the bunker at my 1 o'clock and began firing wildly at me. I responded by shifting my fire over to him. I fired only 5-7 rounds at him before my bolt locked to the rear on an empty magazine. I scored 1 hit somewhere on his torso, though I have no idea where. He fell backwards into the bunker's doorway and out of my sight.

I assumed that I had taken him out of the fight for good, either by killing him or wounding him badly. However this assumption would prove to be a huge error in judgment on my part.

Since my M16A2 was “dry” and I needed to reload, I moved about 10 feet to my right. I knew that I wasn't behind any cover and was just concealed, but I thought that if anyone else came out of the bunker’s doorway they wouldn't be able to see me. Besides, I was just going to quickly reload my rifle and get back into the fight, right? Wrong.

The Marine Corps had shown me in boot camp how to reload my M16 on the rifle range, but speed reloads and tactical reloads were simply never taught. There was one instance during a training exercise before we deployed where a British Royal Marine, who was part of a team doing a training evaluation on my unit, demonstrated how to reload our rifles quickly and put the empty magazine in our cargo pocket so that we wouldn't waste time trying to put it back into our super-tight standard-issue mag pouches. Not to mention that you never want to re-insert an empty magazine into the same pouch that you are going to instinctively index your fresh magazines from. But we never once went over that or practiced it afterwards, so I didn’t retain it and my body never memorized the motions of that technique. We actually never went over or practiced doing ANY kind of reloads; it was just something you were expected to know how to do: when your weapon runs dry, you stick another magazine in it. That sounds simple, but I've discovered that it's a lot more complicated than that... especially when doing it under stress.

So, what did I do when it was time for me to reload my M16 that fateful day? I pressed the magazine release, pulled the empty magazine out of the mag well and inserted the empty magazine back into one of my mag pouches. This took a couple extra seconds to do, especially considering I was inserting it into a pretty tight pouch that already had a magazine in it. The fresh magazine in the pouch was positioned bullets-up as well, because way too many rounds would fall out of it when I tried carrying bullets down in the pouch. I'm guessing that's because the feed lips on the magazine were worn, but I knew nothing about what constituted a bad magazine back then and especially didn't know that magazines were a disposable component. After indexing a fresh magazine, I shoved it into the mag well until it seated and then finally, after at least 8 seconds, pressed the bolt release and sent another round flying into the chamber.

I was also looking down at my weapon and gear the entire time I was reloading. Thus, when I was finally done reloading and looked back in the direction of the enemy bunker only 20 yards away from me, the very same enemy fighter who I'd just shot and assumed that I had permanently put down was now standing at my 11 o’clock, at the corner of the bunker, and aiming directly at me with his AK47 assault rifle.

While I had been performing my slow and nasty reload, the Iraqi had gotten back up to his feet and stepped out of the doorway of the bunker in order to search for the American asshole who just greased his comrade and shot him too. When he didn't immediately see me in my previous location, he moved down the wall of the bunker until he spotted me standing there performing my abortion of a reload, while staring down at my weapon and gear. I had basically allowed... no, invited the bastard to get the drop on me.

It is also worth noting that I was standing in the classic “known distance” rifle range bladed stance as well, exposing the unprotected left side of my chest to the enemy. At that time the Marine Corps never taught us to square up to the target and take full advantage of our ballistic Small Arms Protective Insert (SAPI) plates. The only "standing" position that I knew of was the bladed one taught to me by my Primary Marksmanship Instructor back in boot camp, which of course is only worth a damn on the “one way range” when qualifying with the rifle during training, definitely not for use on the “two way range” in combat when wearing body armor to protect your vital organs and spinal cord. It should also be known that I was a "double-award" Expert rifleman, which means jack shit in combat.

To make matters worse, my rifle was in the Low Ready position as well, instead of keeping it pointed downrange and up in my “workspace” the entire time I was reloading. So once I sent the bolt flying home and chambered another round, I actually had to raise my rifle up in order to engage the enemy, instead of my rifle already being raised and at the Ready, pointing downrange and ready to rock following my reload.

So when I finally looked up and saw him aiming at me with his AK47, I began to raise my rifle in an attempt to put him down for good. But it was already too late. The last thing I saw was a bright muzzle flash from his AK47 as it fired a short burst of 7.62mm projectiles at me. One of those bullets impacted me just under my left armpit, in the exposed area that isn't protected by the ballistic SAPI plates, and tumbled downward through my body. After shredding my spleen (which had to be removed), puncturing and collapsing my left lung, lacerating my stomach and left kidney, and blowing out a large chunk of my vertebrae, the bullet severed my spinal cord at the T12/L1 level, which instantly and completely paralyzed me from the waist down.

There's a lot more to this story obviously, but this small piece is all that's relevant in this particular article.

The point of this story is that muscle memory obtained through repetition can be a great thing when the tactics, techniques and procedures that you're ingraining are good and effective ones. But it works both ways, meaning that, for example, if you handle certain scenarios during training in a relaxed and "administrative" fashion, then you can damn near guarantee that you will handle those scenarios in combat the same way.

For a quick summary, here are the mistakes I made in combat that I believe led to my severe injury and permanent disability:

Assuming I killed the bad guy with one shot to the torso area
Performing such a slow reload
Retaining my empty magazine during the middle of such an intense gunfight
Stowing an empty magazine in the same location as my fresh magazines
Looking down at my weapon while reloading instead of downrange in the direction of the threat(s)
Having my rifle in the Low Ready while reloading
Standing bladed and not taking advantage of the protection that my ballistic plates offered


If you are currently in the military, a law enforcement officer, a Private Military Contractor or even just a civilian sheepdog, I strongly believe it would behoove you to get some advanced weapons training outside of your unit or department. Everything I learned in just the first day of the Trident Concepts Combative Carbine 1 course easily could've helped to prevent the wound that I needlessly sustained... I say that with complete and utter confidence.

If you do decide to attend a weapons training course, be sure to take lots of notes and pictures at your class so that you can go back to your unit or department and spread the knowledge to your fellow brothers-in-arms. If you are a squad leader, you have an obligation to ensure that your young Marines or Soldiers can perform speed reloads quickly, know when and where not to retain, how and when to perform a tactical reload, etc. Practice these things until they become second nature and fluid movements; part of that good ol' muscle memory.

When you attend good courses given by quality companies like those mentioned earlier, these things are taught to you, and they are taught for a reason. These tactics, techniques and procedures are taught this way in order to prevent deaths and injuries like mine. So pay attention and learn in class so that you don't get schooled in the middle of a gunfight instead, like I did.

Oh and just so you know, the oxygen thief who shot me, along with all of his Fedayeen buddies inside the bunker, was obliterated shortly thereafter with lots of 5.56, a few 40mm High Explosive grenades and fragmentation grenades, and last but not least, one of their very own RPGs that they kindly left behind for us to use against them.


Semper Fidelis!!

-Paul


Train, Train, Train!! And never give up!




Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/15/2014 8:12:56 AM EDT
[#23]
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No.

Even though I enjoy shooting and collecting firearms, their primary function is my preservation.  With that in mind, the most important thing when you run dry is getting a full mag in your weapon as fast as possible.  Tactical reloads are fine situation dependent, but you should be training to observe the chamber and then dump the mag/reload when you feel the slide locking back, not worry about your empty mag.  If you train yourself to always retain your mags you will do this in combat.  I've seen it.  It's stupid.  My team trained extensively in reloading, particularly on the move.  It saved my life.  

Most of my mags have rubber base plates (HK).  Those that don't (HiPower) have never had a problem with being dropped.  Rubber attachments to base plates are available, or just go the easy route like the above poster recommended and get some weather stripping.  Training mags and regular (defensive) mags should not mix.  Buy enough that you can train and potentially replace magazines and have others set aside for defensive use.  Mags are cheap now.  Buy them now.
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Sounds like the perfect place to practice tactical reloads anyone can do speed reloads


This.
Exackitickly what are you really learning by allowing your mags to drop to the ground?

This is my attitude.
I have read lots of posts about how guys routinely “train” by dropping mags on the ground, stepping on then, letting them fill up w/dirt, etc.  All this is well and good except that my experience with semi-automatic weapons has taught me that it’s a faulty assumption to assume that a solid, perfectly functioning magazine can be easily replaced with a new, equally good one.  This isn’t necessarily true.  Older, but totally good, equipment goes out of production and manufacturers also routinely make subtle changes to their products that can negatively affect how well they will work in any particular firearm.  And then there is always politics.  Panic buying can dry up supply and new laws can eliminate supply.  And then there is also the little point about whether or not one is made of money and can afford to just keep replacing good equipment.
The approach that I have found works best is to figure out what works best with a particular firearm, then in a timely manner buy as many identical spares as I think I will ever need, and then take care of them.
I treat perfectly functioning magazines with respect until the day comes when I can’t.  
The magazine is the weakest link in a semiautomatic weapons system.  My advice is to be careful about wearing out your best equipment in “training and practice” (fun stuff) and then not having it available when your life depends upon it.



No.

Even though I enjoy shooting and collecting firearms, their primary function is my preservation.  With that in mind, the most important thing when you run dry is getting a full mag in your weapon as fast as possible.  Tactical reloads are fine situation dependent, but you should be training to observe the chamber and then dump the mag/reload when you feel the slide locking back, not worry about your empty mag.  If you train yourself to always retain your mags you will do this in combat.  I've seen it.  It's stupid.  My team trained extensively in reloading, particularly on the move.  It saved my life.  

Most of my mags have rubber base plates (HK).  Those that don't (HiPower) have never had a problem with being dropped.  Rubber attachments to base plates are available, or just go the easy route like the above poster recommended and get some weather stripping.  Training mags and regular (defensive) mags should not mix.  Buy enough that you can train and potentially replace magazines and have others set aside for defensive use.  Mags are cheap now.  Buy them now.


What if you actually train to not let your weapon run dry ? Running your weapon to empty isn't a good idea if it can be helped.
Link Posted: 11/15/2014 1:56:42 PM EDT
[#24]
I really only 'train' with my Glocks, 1911s, and ARs. I let the mags land where they may, concrete or otherwise. I do have dedicated training magazines for the 1911s though. With range guns like my BHPs and P7s I remove the mags and set them on the bench.


RC
Link Posted: 11/15/2014 2:39:29 PM EDT
[#25]
When you shoot USPSA indoors, you will drop partially loaded mags on concrete all through a match.  There are better things to worry about.
Link Posted: 11/15/2014 4:08:33 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm Glock only, but I've been dropping mags on concrete for a long time and I've never had a mag fail me.
Link Posted: 11/15/2014 5:00:20 PM EDT
[#27]
I have nearly 40k through one XD-40 Tactical spread across twelve magazines.  In that time I have had one Arrendondo +3 base pad fail from dropping it on concrete.  I let'em drop, don't matter if its concrete, gravel, grass, sand, mud or snow.  I have never had to replace anything but that one base pad and I did all the springs, once.  I have pounded dents out of a couple bodies after they got stepped on, they still work.  If they stop working I will rebuild/replace as needed.  They are not so expensive that I feel they need to be babied.  If I had a gun that magazine where hard to find I might feel differently but I would also probably not be competing with or carry that gun either.
Link Posted: 11/17/2014 6:23:53 AM EDT
[#28]
My clubs range has gravel on the handgun range. I always let my mags drop and hit the ground.
Unlike the Marine in the earlier cited story, in my reserve unit at qualifications we were always told to let them drop.
I do use dedicated range mags for my pistol so as not to risk my nice 18 and 20 rounders getting damaged.
Link Posted: 11/17/2014 11:38:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Add rubber bumpers.
4-40 screws are the correct size.
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