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Posted: 5/26/2014 9:35:54 AM EDT
These sorts of questions are frequent here, so I thought I’d put together a post I can link to as a primer.

Size matters, and it’s probably the one thing guys most frequently get wrong when helping their friend choose a new gun to keep around the house. In such situations, there almost always seems to be a mutual understanding between the guy and his friend that they’re looking for some dainty little handgun for her to keep in the house.

The biggest problem with this is that physics applies to handguns just as much as everything else. Consider two handguns of the same caliber, like a Ruger LC9 and a CZ SP01. The LC9 is a slim, lightweight, polymer framed gun weighing in at a nice 17.1oz. The SP01 is a very large steel gun weighing 38.4oz. Newton’s third law tells us that when a 9mm projectile is being pushed out of these guns, there is an equal force pushing back against the firearm. That’s the source of recoil. Newton’s first law tells us that an object at rest tends to stay at rest, and an object with more mass is going to be more resistant to a change in motion. Because the SP01 is significantly heavier than the LC9, it has significantly less felt recoil and is much more pleasant to shoot.

There are other drawbacks to smaller handguns, too. A smaller handgun is going to have reduced ammo capacity. If we stick to 9mm for comparison purposes, smaller subcompacts usually hold around seven rounds, and full size guns usually hold 15-20 rounds. I’d like to think seven rounds is enough, but you never know. Smaller handguns are also going to have a shorter sight radius, or distance between the front and rear sight. Generally speaking, a longer sight radius is going to make it easier to shoot more accurately. Another tradeoff is muzzle velocity. There are other variables, and it’s a bit more complicated than this, but an extra inch of barrel can be good for 50-100 feet per second.

Long story short, so far, is that you should try to stick to a full size service pistol like a Glock 17, M&P 9, Beretta 92, or CZ 75. A midsize gun like a Glock 19 or M&P 9c is okay. The small concealed carry guns should be left for concealed carry. If they don’t mind spending a little extra, consider a competition oriented long slide gun like a Glock 34 or a M&P 9 Pro Series. They really are the “even better” versions of the guns they’re based on.

What about revolvers? The popular thought is that revolvers are simple, easy to operate, and completely reliable. That’s not exactly accurate. The side plate of a revolver hides some lockwork that tends to be more complicated than it looks. Precision is everything, and damaged internals or a bent crane can ruin your timing, or worse. Something like a protruding primer or a bit of sediment pushing on a case can lock up a revolver. A semiauto stoppage can usually be cleared rapidly, but a bound up revolver tends to take some time and effort to deal with. If it locks up during a fight, it’s done.

Revolver ease of use is an interesting discussion. On a very basic level, revolvers are easier to operate. It is very easy to load, unload, or check a revolver… if speed isn’t an issue. In a defensive situation, revolvers are more demanding to operate than a semiauto. The double action trigger is more difficult to master, and reloading is probably out of the question without significant training and practice.

The best thing to do when helping someone choose a handgun is to take him or her shooting. If they’re completely new to shooting, use a .22lr target pistol to teach fundamentals, then try a few other guns out and see what they gravitate to. “Perfect” probably won’t be found the first time out, and that’s okay. It will take some trigger time for him or her to get a feel for what fits and develop preferences. In the meantime, it’s okay to settle on a quality firearm as “good enough.”

Being a technical forum, there is much debate about the advantages and disadvantages of some features, and no debate draws more purse swinging than safeties. I find this hilarious and ironic because no one complains about the safety on the rifle our site is named for, but the existence of a safety on a handgun draws plenty of criticism. Either way, with or without a safety, there’s a training consideration. Opponents of safeties will say that the safety is a crutch to protect against poor awareness of the trigger, and there’s truth to that. They also say that the safety can prevent a person from being able to fire in the heat of the moment, and again, there’s truth to that. The training requirements are simple. Regardless of whether or not a firearm has a safety, the individual needs to ensure that nothing snags the trigger. If a firearm with a safety is chosen, a muscle memory link between presenting a firearm and flipping off the safety needs to be established. It’s not rocket surgery. The presence of a safety probably shouldn’t be part of your GO-NO GO criteria.

What about caliber? Keep it simple, and keep it standard. Avoid limited market calibers like 5.7, .357sig, and .25acp. If you do decide to go the revolver route, a .38 special or a .357 magnum loaded with .38 special is probably the only way to go. On the semiauto side, I’d suggest 9mm, .40s&w, .45acp, and maybe .380. 9mm is an all-around good choice. If the recoil of 9mm is too much, try something heavier. .45acp is also popular because the recoil has a slow, strong impulse. I don’t recommend a small .45 like the XD-S for novice shooters, but some of the ladies I’ve taken out have enjoyed the 1911. .40s&w is hotly debated. The recoil on .40s&w firearms does tend to be a bit sharper, but it’s not unreasonable, and larger guns manage it well. .380 is a bit borderline. It’s more expensive than 9mm, yet it’s less powerful. The only advantage is that it can be used in very small guns like the LCP, but those are snappy. .380 can be nice in the larger examples like the Beretta 84, Sig P232, and CZ 83.

Questions of brand tend to draw fierce fanboyism. I’d suggest sticking with major players like Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Glock, Springfield Armory, Sig Sauer, Beretta, CZ, and HK. All of these companies generally produce very good guns. At the risk of sounding like a snob, I don’t recommend super low budget brands like Bryco, Jennings, and Jimenez, and I don’t recommend Taurus. Taurus has produced some decent guns (older PT92s were good), but I’ve seen way too many failures to recommend them for self-defense. The $50 you might save is not enough for the difference in quality. All manufacturers have produced lemons. Any defensive firearm needs to be tested before use, and that means more than one box of ammo.

Go shooting, and have fun with it.

If anyone has anything to add, go for it.
Link Posted: 5/26/2014 9:42:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Good information.....
Link Posted: 5/26/2014 9:47:04 AM EDT
[#2]
I think you hit the nail on the head on many points.  Primarily the "take them out and let them try it" point.

I have the opposite problem; stopping her from buying too many pistols

You're 100% correct ln the size and shape being determining factors in recoil.  My wife only shoots 9mm.  There is a significant change in recoil beteween her G26, LC9, and Sig 938.  We tried a wheel gun a few years ago and she kept saying it was too complicated, too many movements to reload compared to a SA.  Let them try different things.  For my wife it's like picking out a dress or new shoes, could take days

(I'd like to get that little 938 from her, sweet litle shooter),
Link Posted: 5/26/2014 11:54:38 AM EDT
[#3]
One thing you don't mention is that for many newer shooters, especially women, it's not the "recoil" they have a problem with, but the muzzle blast.  Often they will have a hard time articulating this, saying the gun has too much "kick".  Since the recoil and muzzle blast occur at the same time, they can get  conflated.

Only mentioning this because it's not always obvious when this is the issue.
Link Posted: 5/26/2014 12:28:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Great post.

I think it's so important not to get locked into a specific handgun.

I think of one female shooter I was helping. Her groups nearly reduced to half going from her Glock 19 to a Kahr PM9.
Link Posted: 5/26/2014 3:50:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
One thing you don't mention is that for many newer shooters, especially women, it's not the "recoil" they have a problem with, but the muzzle blast.  Often they will have a hard time articulating this, saying the gun has too much "kick".  Since the recoil and muzzle blast occur at the same time, they can get  conflated.

Only mentioning this because it's not always obvious when this is the issue.
View Quote


I always recommend that new shooters go to an outdoor range, preferably when there aren't many other shooters around.
Link Posted: 5/27/2014 7:42:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
One thing you don't mention is that for many newer shooters, especially women, it's not the "recoil" they have a problem with, but the muzzle blast.  
View Quote


Not my SO, as a range trip with her is usually involves at least one mag dump.

Going to a big gun store with lots of inventory is the easiest way to find something that fits in my experience with helping others.
Link Posted: 5/27/2014 8:18:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Not my SO, as a range trip with her is usually involves at least one mag dump.

Going to a big gun store with lots of inventory is the easiest way to find something that fits in my experience with helping others.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
One thing you don't mention is that for many newer shooters, especially women, it's not the "recoil" they have a problem with, but the muzzle blast.  


Not my SO, as a range trip with her is usually involves at least one mag dump.

Going to a big gun store with lots of inventory is the easiest way to find something that fits in my experience with helping others.


Unless the store in question has a range and offers rentals, I disagree with this. Having your friend choose a gun that feels nice at the counter is a good way to set them up for disappointment at the range.
Link Posted: 5/28/2014 3:31:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I always recommend that new shooters go to an outdoor range, preferably when there aren't many other shooters around.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
One thing you don't mention is that for many newer shooters, especially women, it's not the "recoil" they have a problem with, but the muzzle blast.  Often they will have a hard time articulating this, saying the gun has too much "kick".  Since the recoil and muzzle blast occur at the same time, they can get  conflated.

Only mentioning this because it's not always obvious when this is the issue.


I always recommend that new shooters go to an outdoor range, preferably when there aren't many other shooters around.

Big plus one to that.
Both my kids and my wife hated their first range trip because of all the other shooters.  Hearing pro was irrelevant.
Link Posted: 5/28/2014 4:59:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
These sorts of questions are frequent here, so I thought I’d put together a post I can link to as a primer.

Size matters, and it’s probably the one thing guys most frequently get wrong when helping their friend choose a new gun to keep around the house. In such situations, there almost always seems to be a mutual understanding between the guy and his friend that they’re looking for some dainty little handgun for her to keep in the house.

The biggest problem with this is that physics applies to handguns just as much as everything else. Consider two handguns of the same caliber, like a Ruger LC9 and a CZ SP01. The LC9 is a slim, lightweight, polymer framed gun weighing in at a nice 17.1oz. The SP01 is a very large steel gun weighing 38.4oz. Newton’s third law tells us that when a 9mm projectile is being pushed out of these guns, there is an equal force pushing back against the firearm. That’s the source of recoil. Newton’s first law tells us that an object at rest tends to stay at rest, and an object with more mass is going to be more resistant to a change in motion. Because the SP01 is significantly heavier than the LC9, it has significantly less felt recoil and is much more pleasant to shoot.

There are other drawbacks to smaller handguns, too. A smaller handgun is going to have reduced ammo capacity. If we stick to 9mm for comparison purposes, smaller subcompacts usually hold around seven rounds, and full size guns usually hold 15-20 rounds. I’d like to think seven rounds is enough, but you never know. Smaller handguns are also going to have a shorter sight radius, or distance between the front and rear sight. Generally speaking, a longer sight radius is going to make it easier to shoot more accurately. Another tradeoff is muzzle velocity. There are other variables, and it’s a bit more complicated than this, but an extra inch of barrel can be good for 50-100 feet per second.

Long story short, so far, is that you should try to stick to a full size service pistol like a Glock 17, M&P 9, Beretta 92, or CZ 75. A midsize gun like a Glock 19 or M&P 9c is okay. The small concealed carry guns should be left for concealed carry. If they don’t mind spending a little extra, consider a competition oriented long slide gun like a Glock 34 or a M&P 9 Pro Series. They really are the “even better” versions of the guns they’re based on.

What about revolvers? The popular thought is that revolvers are simple, easy to operate, and completely reliable. That’s not exactly accurate. The side plate of a revolver hides some lockwork that tends to be more complicated than it looks. Precision is everything, and damaged internals or a bent crane can ruin your timing, or worse. Something like a protruding primer or a bit of sediment pushing on a case can lock up a revolver. A semiauto stoppage can usually be cleared rapidly, but a bound up revolver tends to take some time and effort to deal with. If it locks up during a fight, it’s done.

Revolver ease of use is an interesting discussion. On a very basic level, revolvers are easier to operate. It is very easy to load, unload, or check a revolver… if speed isn’t an issue. In a defensive situation, revolvers are more demanding to operate than a semiauto. The double action trigger is more difficult to master, and reloading is probably out of the question without significant training and practice.

The best thing to do when helping someone choose a handgun is to take him or her shooting. If they’re completely new to shooting, use a .22lr target pistol to teach fundamentals, then try a few other guns out and see what they gravitate to. “Perfect” probably won’t be found the first time out, and that’s okay. It will take some trigger time for him or her to get a feel for what fits and develop preferences. In the meantime, it’s okay to settle on a quality firearm as “good enough.”

Being a technical forum, there is much debate about the advantages and disadvantages of some features, and no debate draws more purse swinging than safeties. I find this hilarious and ironic because no one complains about the safety on the rifle our site is named for, but the existence of a safety on a handgun draws plenty of criticism. Either way, with or without a safety, there’s a training consideration. Opponents of safeties will say that the safety is a crutch to protect against poor awareness of the trigger, and there’s truth to that. They also say that the safety can prevent a person from being able to fire in the heat of the moment, and again, there’s truth to that. The training requirements are simple. Regardless of whether or not a firearm has a safety, the individual needs to ensure that nothing snags the trigger. If a firearm with a safety is chosen, a muscle memory link between presenting a firearm and flipping off the safety needs to be established. It’s not rocket surgery. The presence of a safety probably shouldn’t be part of your GO-NO GO criteria.

What about caliber? Keep it simple, and keep it standard. Avoid limited market calibers like 5.7, .357sig, and .25acp. If you do decide to go the revolver route, a .38 special or a .357 magnum loaded with .38 special is probably the only way to go. On the semiauto side, I’d suggest 9mm, .40s&w, .45acp, and maybe .380. 9mm is an all-around good choice. If the recoil of 9mm is too much, try something heavier. .45acp is also popular because the recoil has a slow, strong impulse. I don’t recommend a small .45 like the XD-S for novice shooters, but some of the ladies I’ve taken out have enjoyed the 1911. .40s&w is hotly debated. The recoil on .40s&w firearms does tend to be a bit sharper, but it’s not unreasonable, and larger guns manage it well. .380 is a bit borderline. It’s more expensive than 9mm, yet it’s less powerful. The only advantage is that it can be used in very small guns like the LCP, but those are snappy. .380 can be nice in the larger examples like the Beretta 84, Sig P232, and CZ 83.

Questions of brand tend to draw fierce fanboyism. I’d suggest sticking with major players like Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Glock, Springfield Armory, Sig Sauer, Beretta, CZ, and HK. All of these companies generally produce very good guns. At the risk of sounding like a snob, I don’t recommend super low budget brands like Bryco, Jennings, and Jimenez, and I don’t recommend Taurus. Taurus has produced some decent guns (older PT92s were good), but I’ve seen way too many failures to recommend them for self-defense. The $50 you might save is not enough for the difference in quality. All manufacturers have produced lemons. Any defensive firearm needs to be tested before use, and that means more than one box of ammo.

Go shooting, and have fun with it.

If anyone has anything to add, go for it.
View Quote


















LOL JK....good info and pretty much how I try to steer people.
Link Posted: 5/28/2014 9:47:05 AM EDT
[#10]
My first piece of advice to people who want to buy a gun for themselves, or especially someone else is... Go to the gun show and feel up every single handgun you can get your hands on.
Link Posted: 5/28/2014 3:44:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Unless the store in question has a range and offers rentals, I disagree with this. Having your friend choose a gun that feels nice at the counter is a good way to set them up for disappointment at the range.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
One thing you don't mention is that for many newer shooters, especially women, it's not the "recoil" they have a problem with, but the muzzle blast.  


Not my SO, as a range trip with her is usually involves at least one mag dump.

Going to a big gun store with lots of inventory is the easiest way to find something that fits in my experience with helping others.


Unless the store in question has a range and offers rentals, I disagree with this. Having your friend choose a gun that feels nice at the counter is a good way to set them up for disappointment at the range.



Pretty much. My MIL wanted a pistol, had been shooting with me 5 times and shot M&P 40 mid size and compacts, 1911's in .45acp, a .357 revolver with .38 specials, and even a Mac11 with an extended barrel/fake can, just for shits and giggles. The .357 mag felt the best... but she hated the "flame" coming out from in between the cylinder and forcing cone. She simply couldn't get over it. She loved the M&P's and my "NM" Springfield Loaded 1911. The 6th visit we decided to rent half the rental case inventory, she loved the CZ 75 B SA the best of all. She could put 10 rounds in the 8 to 10 ring in 10 to 15 seconds at 8 yards. It had little recoil and she could manipulate the slide and safety very easily. She could even load the mags easier than that of a G19. It's all about personal preferance. I would hate to think someone but me chose my weapon and it's the only one I could carry and use for recreation and home defense... It's this simple; let them try and shoot as many as they can and choose the one they like/handle/shoot & operate the very best.
Link Posted: 5/28/2014 4:11:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
These sorts of questions are frequent here, so I thought I’d put together a post I can link to as a primer.

Size matters, and it’s probably the one thing guys most frequently get wrong when helping their friend choose a new gun to keep around the house. In such situations, there almost always seems to be a mutual understanding between the guy and his friend that they’re looking for some dainty little handgun for her to keep in the house.

The biggest problem with this is that physics applies to handguns just as much as everything else. Consider two handguns of the same caliber, like a Ruger LC9 and a CZ SP01. The LC9 is a slim, lightweight, polymer framed gun weighing in at a nice 17.1oz. The SP01 is a very large steel gun weighing 38.4oz. Newton’s third law tells us that when a 9mm projectile is being pushed out of these guns, there is an equal force pushing back against the firearm. That’s the source of recoil. Newton’s first law tells us that an object at rest tends to stay at rest, and an object with more mass is going to be more resistant to a change in motion. Because the SP01 is significantly heavier than the LC9, it has significantly less felt recoil and is much more pleasant to shoot.

There are other drawbacks to smaller handguns, too. A smaller handgun is going to have reduced ammo capacity. If we stick to 9mm for comparison purposes, smaller subcompacts usually hold around seven rounds, and full size guns usually hold 15-20 rounds. I’d like to think seven rounds is enough, but you never know. Smaller handguns are also going to have a shorter sight radius, or distance between the front and rear sight. Generally speaking, a longer sight radius is going to make it easier to shoot more accurately. Another tradeoff is muzzle velocity. There are other variables, and it’s a bit more complicated than this, but an extra inch of barrel can be good for 50-100 feet per second.

Long story short, so far, is that you should try to stick to a full size service pistol like a Glock 17, M&P 9, Beretta 92, or CZ 75. A midsize gun like a Glock 19 or M&P 9c is okay. The small concealed carry guns should be left for concealed carry. If they don’t mind spending a little extra, consider a competition oriented long slide gun like a Glock 34 or a M&P 9 Pro Series. They really are the “even better” versions of the guns they’re based on.

What about revolvers? The popular thought is that revolvers are simple, easy to operate, and completely reliable. That’s not exactly accurate. The side plate of a revolver hides some lockwork that tends to be more complicated than it looks. Precision is everything, and damaged internals or a bent crane can ruin your timing, or worse. Something like a protruding primer or a bit of sediment pushing on a case can lock up a revolver. A semiauto stoppage can usually be cleared rapidly, but a bound up revolver tends to take some time and effort to deal with. If it locks up during a fight, it’s done.

Revolver ease of use is an interesting discussion. On a very basic level, revolvers are easier to operate. It is very easy to load, unload, or check a revolver… if speed isn’t an issue. In a defensive situation, revolvers are more demanding to operate than a semiauto. The double action trigger is more difficult to master, and reloading is probably out of the question without significant training and practice.

The best thing to do when helping someone choose a handgun is to take him or her shooting. If they’re completely new to shooting, use a .22lr target pistol to teach fundamentals, then try a few other guns out and see what they gravitate to. “Perfect” probably won’t be found the first time out, and that’s okay. It will take some trigger time for him or her to get a feel for what fits and develop preferences. In the meantime, it’s okay to settle on a quality firearm as “good enough.”

Being a technical forum, there is much debate about the advantages and disadvantages of some features, and no debate draws more purse swinging than safeties. I find this hilarious and ironic because no one complains about the safety on the rifle our site is named for, but the existence of a safety on a handgun draws plenty of criticism. Either way, with or without a safety, there’s a training consideration. Opponents of safeties will say that the safety is a crutch to protect against poor awareness of the trigger, and there’s truth to that. They also say that the safety can prevent a person from being able to fire in the heat of the moment, and again, there’s truth to that. The training requirements are simple. Regardless of whether or not a firearm has a safety, the individual needs to ensure that nothing snags the trigger. If a firearm with a safety is chosen, a muscle memory link between presenting a firearm and flipping off the safety needs to be established. It’s not rocket surgery. The presence of a safety probably shouldn’t be part of your GO-NO GO criteria.

What about caliber? Keep it simple, and keep it standard. Avoid limited market calibers like 5.7, .357sig, and .25acp. If you do decide to go the revolver route, a .38 special or a .357 magnum loaded with .38 special is probably the only way to go. On the semiauto side, I’d suggest 9mm, .40s&w, .45acp, and maybe .380. 9mm is an all-around good choice. If the recoil of 9mm is too much, try something heavier. .45acp is also popular because the recoil has a slow, strong impulse. I don’t recommend a small .45 like the XD-S for novice shooters, but some of the ladies I’ve taken out have enjoyed the 1911. .40s&w is hotly debated. The recoil on .40s&w firearms does tend to be a bit sharper, but it’s not unreasonable, and larger guns manage it well. .380 is a bit borderline. It’s more expensive than 9mm, yet it’s less powerful. The only advantage is that it can be used in very small guns like the LCP, but those are snappy. .380 can be nice in the larger examples like the Beretta 84, Sig P232, and CZ 83.

Questions of brand tend to draw fierce fanboyism. I’d suggest sticking with major players like Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Glock, Springfield Armory, Sig Sauer, Beretta, CZ, and HK. All of these companies generally produce very good guns. At the risk of sounding like a snob, I don’t recommend super low budget brands like Bryco, Jennings, and Jimenez, and I don’t recommend Taurus. Taurus has produced some decent guns (older PT92s were good), but I’ve seen way too many failures to recommend them for self-defense. The $50 you might save is not enough for the difference in quality. All manufacturers have produced lemons. Any defensive firearm needs to be tested before use, and that means more than one box of ammo.

Go shooting, and have fun with it.

If anyone has anything to add, go for it.
View Quote


Amen. Agree 100%. Also agree that the way a gun feels in your hand in the gun store doesn't matter nearly as much as how you shoot it.
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 7:45:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Do not help someone buy a handgun. They won't listen to anything you say. Also, don't give anyone the time of day who says something like, "And I only want to spend $300". These people are total wastes of time.
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 12:04:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Don't discount .22 for those with weak hands.

My mom is great with a .38 in single action, but due to arthritis, can't pull the trigger in DA.  We got her started on the SR22 and it's the first gun out of many that she's been able to manipulate and shoot straight.  

I tell people, carry the biggest caliber that you can completely handle.  If that's a .22 then that's a .22.  A .22 in the hand is better than a 9mm in the gun safe.
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 1:08:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Good post.  Probably should be a sticky as often  as that question comes up.
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 1:12:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Good post.  Probably should be a sticky as often  as that question comes up.
View Quote

+1

Well said, OP.
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 5:02:36 PM EDT
[#17]
I personally think the OP missed one of the BIGGEST issues with female shooters, one that destroys his own suggestions and one which most men totally miss.  That issues, is the fact that most females hands are significantly smaller than mens hands.  The recommended full size double stack pistols DON'T FIT THEIR HANDS.
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 7:56:16 PM EDT
[#18]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I personally think the OP missed one of the BIGGEST issues with female shooters, one that destroys his own suggestions and one which most men totally miss.  That issues, is the fact that most females hands are significantly smaller than mens hands.  The recommended full size double stack pistols DON'T FIT THEIR HANDS.
View Quote


Also, many of them have long nails which prevents a good grip on the gun, assuming they have the hand strength in the first place....



 
Link Posted: 6/5/2014 7:41:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I personally think the OP missed one of the BIGGEST issues with female shooters, one that destroys his own suggestions and one which most men totally miss.  That issues, is the fact that most females hands are significantly smaller than mens hands.  The recommended full size double stack pistols DON'T FIT THEIR HANDS.
View Quote


My experience has been otherwise. I've takes several females to the range, and none have had issues with the frame sizes. The only area where I've seen smaller hands being challenged is the reach to the trigger on some double action firearms.

These ladies don't seem to have trouble with their full size double stacks, either...

Link Posted: 6/19/2014 5:21:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't discount .22 for those with weak hands.

My mom is great with a .38 in single action, but due to arthritis, can't pull the trigger in DA.  We got her started on the SR22 and it's the first gun out of many that she's been able to manipulate and shoot straight.  

I tell people, carry the biggest caliber that you can completely handle.  If that's a .22 then that's a .22.  A .22 in the hand is better than a 9mm in the gun safe.
View Quote


I agree with the basic message of your post, but I'm hesitant to recommend .22lr or any rimfire caliber. It's not as much about the lethality, but rimfire ammo is much more likely to fail.

For most people leaning towards a .22lr, I'd generally suggest a revolver like the LCR so the shooter can simply move on with another pull of the trigger. I realize that in the case of your mother, that's a catch 22.

The SR22 isn't a bad choice, but I'd make sure she knows how to clear a malfunction if a round fails to ignite.
Link Posted: 6/20/2014 6:27:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I personally think the OP missed one of the BIGGEST issues with female shooters, one that destroys his own suggestions and one which most men totally miss.  That issues, is the fact that most females hands are significantly smaller than mens hands.  The recommended full size double stack pistols DON'T FIT THEIR HANDS.
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Unless the woman's name is Lana Kane, but that goes without saying.

Phrasing, BOOM.
Link Posted: 6/22/2014 7:44:20 PM EDT
[#22]
As a personal trainer that studies biomechanics/body proportions, I would add that hand size/shape is everything.  Points to consider:
1.  With as high a grip as possible, can they pull the trigger with proper finger placement?
2.  Can they form the strongest grip possible, the cylinder grip, where the fingers contact the thumb wrapped around the grip(or close to it)?
3.  Can they hit all the necessary controls without shifting the grip or shifting it too much?
4.  Can they rack the slide?
5.  Does the gun's grip hammer against the thumb joint closest to the hand during recoil?
6.  Can they pull the trigger in double action(I believe someone else stated this)?

My other job is working at the nation's largest indoor shooting range, and fitting the person to the gun and vice versa is critical to a good shooting experience.  When helping someone decide on a rental gun, I try to consider all of these variables.  People with small hands usually are better off with CZ, 1911 and Springfield Armory XD.  Medium hands probably Sig, FN, H&K P30, S&W, maybe Glock.  Large hands Glock, all other H&Ks, S&W, Beretta.
Link Posted: 7/22/2014 8:05:13 PM EDT
[#23]
I shot the Glock 42 today. I think it's worth consideration if concealed carry is the goal. LINK
Link Posted: 8/21/2014 4:08:06 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm just going to give this a bump to keep it out of the archives.
Link Posted: 8/21/2014 11:44:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
<snip>

What about revolvers? The popular thought is that revolvers are simple, easy to operate, and completely reliable. That’s not exactly accurate. The side plate of a revolver hides some lockwork that tends to be more complicated than it looks. Precision is everything, and damaged internals or a bent crane can ruin your timing, or worse. Something like a protruding primer or a bit of sediment pushing on a case can lock up a revolver. A semiauto stoppage can usually be cleared rapidly, but a bound up revolver tends to take some time and effort to deal with. If it locks up during a fight, it’s done.

Revolver ease of use is an interesting discussion. On a very basic level, revolvers are easier to operate. It is very easy to load, unload, or check a revolver… if speed isn’t an issue. In a defensive situation, revolvers are more demanding to operate than a semiauto. The double action trigger is more difficult to master, and reloading is probably out of the question without significant training and practice.

<snip> .380 is a bit borderline. It’s more expensive than 9mm, yet it’s less powerful. The only advantage is that it can be used in very small guns like the LCP, but those are snappy. .380 can be nice in the larger examples like the Beretta 84, Sig P232, and CZ 83.

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The ease of use for revolvers has little to do with offline operations like loading, checking, et al.  Certainly nice perks for the novice, but in an SD situation they are easy because they operate in a totally intuitive way and require little firearms insight.  No slide to jack, no safety to take off, no concern if the mag is properly seated, no question of whether or not there is one in the chamber.  Pull the trigger and it fires.  They are not more demanding than a semi when the operator is pumped full of adrenalin.. particularly true with a novice not used to semi's.  They are as simple as a handgun gets.  That and failures in quality revolvers are so rare they aren't even worth getting into.  Lock ups?  Bent cranes?  Damaged internals?  Have you been using yours for a hammer?

And .380 is a poor choice in any size pistol.  It's the round, not the platform.  Effective choices start with .38 special and 9mm.
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