I hope so.  I have an original Model 51 and I love the design, I will not forgive Remington if they botch this.

I will get to shoot my R51 today. I'll let you know how it shoots.

I've been playing with it some more, raking the slide etc., and it is starting to loosen up a bit.

The grip safety was a little rough feeling so I put a few drops of oil on it and worked it quite a bit. It is now operating smoothly.

When you rack the slide there is a noticeable resistance when the bolt unlocks. After some oil and racking the slide this is smoothing out as well.

I think after a few hundred rounds it will loosen up nicely. Can't wait to shoot it later today.

Comparing it to a Shield, it is pretty much the same size except the barrel is 1/2 " longer. It should conceal just as well as a Shield from the looks of it.

I haven't seen one locally yet, even though I keep stopping at all the dealers in my city and and keep bugging them. Today I checked gunbroker to see if there were any dealers auctioning them that were near me and sure enough I see a pawn ship selling one in the next town over. However, the auction clearly states the pistol is also available in their store and they have the right to cancel if it sells locally. I called them up, told them I'm local, and that I would come right over if they would sell it now. They told me they only had the one and it was mine for $399.99 if I wanted it. I jumped in my car and ran over their as quick as I could.

My initial impressions? Well... it's heavy for it's size. Which is a good thing in my book. The last few compact pistols I have handled were polymer frames and I prefer all metal firearms. The frame and slide are flawless, and the rear sight is certainly not loose. I haven't actually shot it yet, but the trigger and grip safety don't seem gritty to me. There is a noticeable effort when engaging the grip safety, unlike a 1911, but that makes sense since this is the ONLY safety on the pistol. My only complaint is the fit and finish of the barrel. It has noticeable tooling marks and the crown of the barrel is chipped.

I will update this after I get some range time in next week. I have some 124 gr. JHP defensive rounds from Remington, as well as some 115 gr. FMJ target rounds, also from Remington.

I hate the design and shape of the trigger other than that looks good

I put about 150 rounds through the R51 yesterday. They were all my reloads with about half being light target loads with plated round nose bullets, and the other half were hotter loads with jacketed hollow point bullets. Both bullet types were 124 grain.  Overall it performed quite well with no malfunctions except for a few first round feeding issues described below.

The first few magazines it was a little reluctant to chamber the first round. Out of the first three mags I had to nudge it twice to get the first round to chamber. It happened once again on a later mag. The last ten mags or so did not exhibit this problem. I attribute most of this to the gun being new and tight and needing to be broken in. Part of it could have been my reloads because I had a similar feed issue on two other pistols that have never done this before.

The gun was comfortable to shoot and did seem to absorb the recoil better than a S&W Shield I was also shooting. Normally I notice a big difference between the mild and hotter loads. With the R51 it was almost hard to tell which load I was shooting.

The grip feels a little different from anything else I have. Not bad, just different. It is quite thin and the grip panels don't stick out hardly at all. I think it could benefit from some thicker rubber grip panels. The front strap has fairly aggressive checkering on it. It is a bit abrasive for an extended range session, but is a plus IMO for self defense use. If you plan to shoot it a lot and have soft hands you might want to wear some gloves.

The trigger is similar to a non-tuned 1911 trigger that is on the heavy side. It has a little bit of pre-travel then breaks clean at 6 lbs. according to my gauge. Mine is not gritty feeling at all. It is perfectly acceptable for a self defense weapon. For carrying I think I would leave it alone. It will probably get smoother and a little lighter with more use.

Someone commented on it not have a take-up and reset like a Glock. That is true, because it's a hammer fired single action pistol. It's not designed to.

Accuracy was quite good. I was only shooting at 5 yards because the main goal of the session was for my GF to wring out her new LCR. I was shooting more to break the R51 in and test overall function. But when I did slow down and do my part it put the rounds where I aimed them. It is more than accurate enough for a defensive pistol.

The one issue that concerns me is the funny looking primer bulges I am seeing. I'm not sure if this is a characteristic of the gun, or if my firing pin hole is too big. My Glocks leave rectangular bulges in the primers. These might just seem worse because they are smaller and round. I want to resolve this before I shoot it more.

Pics of bulged primer






Overall I am pleased with the R51. It still needs some more rounds put through it before I would consider it reliable enough to use as a carry piece. I am going to get the primer issue resolved and put a lot more rounds though it. I'll update you guys later.

Nice report, thx! I'm thinking of the R51 for the wife, jury is still out on that.
Are your bulging primers from your hotter loads? Almost looks like extruded from too much pressure.
Keep us posted...
Tomac

I'd try some factory loaded stuff and see how they look.

Thanks for the report.

It's not only Glock that has a reset, lots of triggers of single action and striker types have a discernible reset.  It's become the accepted norm of how to shoot anymore.

ran about 60 misc.rounds thru mine yesterday....

1. Accurate, much more so than I am.
2. Problems with the cycling.....seems it didn't want to go all the way back into battery and needed a nudge on the rear of the slide a few more times that I'd like.

It's still Very tight-and now very dirty.  I hope to find a box or 2 this week and run them thru as well.  I liked the felt-recoil compared to my previous boating accident pistols....It'll be a good shooter, if I can get it to open up and run correctly

Seen 2 at my local gun shop priced at $402, I was disappointed with how big they were. I was thinking they would be smaller and they were also much uglier in person. I had been interested in one until today...always a good feeling when you save yourself $400+ dollars!

The blazer case on the left in the top pick is the hotter of the two loads. It's still not even a max load. The bulged one on the right is a light target load,  Those are CCI primers.

I am going to shoot some factory loads too. I suspect they will bulge as well since the light reload did.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else is seeing this on their primers.

Have you tried +P ammo yet? I read of someone who had a similar problem with cycling standard 9mm but had no issues with 9mm +P ammo.

Of course, I haven't even shot mine yet. And I don't have any +P ammo at the moment.

To each his own. I'm not going to take a chance on short stroking a trigger when the adrenaline is pumping. If it works for you, great.

If short stroking is a concern, you should probably do a bit more practice...reset return does not matter much.

I don't have a problem with my trigger operation and it's really no concern of yours.. You shoot how you want and I'll shoot how I want.

And I would practice more if I had a range in my back yard...oh wait...I do.

There is a difference between practicing right and practicing.  

If the R51 does not have a Glock like reset, I do not see the problem.  It should not cause a shooter to short stroke the trigger.  If it does, you don't know what you are doing.

 

It's an odd world we've come into. Where people talk about Glocks and use them as an example of a good trigger.

I shoot my Glocks so much I'm very used to the trigger reset. No real complaints about them and I've shot many thousands of rounds through them so I'm used to them. When I pick up my 3913 I notice my finger is far past reset before it stops moving forward after a shot. Almost off the trigger in fact.  The 3913 has a hard reset but a much different one than the Glocks with a lot less forward travel.

Which one is better? Does it matter? It's my belief most of the discussion about trigger reset is BS. Shooting slowly and carefully you notice these things. But wearing gloves or running fast or when pumped those fine motor movements and the ability to feel small changes in trigger pressure disappear. Swapping often from one gun to another what I notice is that the 'muscle memory' ( I hate that shitty term ) involved isn't the feel of reset at all but of the minimum travel required to reset the trigger. That's seems to be the thing I've 'learned' not any feeling or lack of feeling. If I shoot a particular gun enough I have that and it doesn't go away even wearing gloves when feel for that is almost non existent.

You have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm not going to waste any more keystrokes on you,

Sorry this thread got derailed. If someone wants to comment on my lack of shooting abilities without ever seeing me shoot please start another thread.

Now back to the topic of this thread.

If you want a Glock like trigger the R51 is probably not for you. Like I said, mine at least, is more like a 1911 trigger that is a bit on the heavy side. It averaged around 6 lbs. according to my trigger gauge.

I would appreciate if anyone else that has shot theirs could comment on the bulged primer issue I posted above. Thanks.

That's all well and good until you get a little lint or dirt in there and there isn't enough return force on the trigger for it to reset.  Or your glove fabric is against it and it can't reset.  It's not just a question about the feel of the trigger.  It does have a "reset", it has to go all the way forward to its rest position, and it has very little energy behind it to do that.

I don't think anyone is trumpeting Glock as a "good trigger", but Glock and essentially every other modern firearm has a positive trigger reset.

Erm....

Ive shot pistols in some pretty DISGUSTING conditions and ive never had a pistol fail in that manner.  Im not saying it cant happen but that really seems like a HUGE stretch.  Even my M&P's which had some of the "weakest" reset's imaginable never failed to actually, mechanically reset (beyond the dead trigger issue related to sear bounce).

I think most of the people here are complaining about a lack of a tactile feel and not a weak reset but i may be wrong.  To the owners out there, please chime in and let us know if you're having that issue.  Having never disassembled the R51 i cant say how the disconnector is designed but im pretty sure the pistol will mechanically reset pretty much just like every other modern pistol, ie well enough to conform to modern reliability expectations.

The comment wasn't about the R51 in particular but the subject in general. I wasn't aware the pistol had so little reset force. If that's the case it's certainly an issue. If it's just one of not enough feel it sounds a lot less of a problem than it's being made out to be.

back on subject to the bulged primers.  If over pressure were a concern I think you'd see flattening of the primer too.  CCI small pistol primers arent the hardest primers either.

real stretch but if the gun is really tight and stays locked longer, the pressure has to find its way somewhere and a weak primer into an oversized hole could be a prob... but I doubt it really.

if it continues with other ammo contact Rem.

kids policed brass yesterday, and every one they found looked just like those pictured above......brass and steel case....every single one.

For those of you that have tried the others, what does Remington do better than the Shield, PPS, Nano, etc ?

Thanks for your input. It may just be a characteristic of the gun? My Glocks do a similar thing just rectangular shaped and not as pronounced.

I am going to run some factory rounds through mine before I contact Remington to see it it's a problem. If I tell them they are reloads they might not be too accommodating.

I shot the R51 side by side with my Shield. To  me, the R51 is a softer shooter. And I like the grip safety better than the safety on the Shield (I know a lot of people hate them).

The trigger is different. That may be good or bad depending what you are used to.

For now, I don't trust the R51 enough to carry it. Just not enough rounds through it yet. I do trust the Shield to carry.

Friend of mine picked his up last Wednesday.  Ran a hundred rounds thru on Saturday.  Or tried to.  Half of them jammed.  Pistol is on its way back to Remington.  Don't know the kind of jam, I wasn't there.  Experienced shooter, I doubt it was anything like limp wristing.  

I'm still interested in these but think I may wait a bit.

Those primers look pretty well bulged; not sure how much more they could 'bulge' before they let go?

I'm curious to see what Remington says about it, to be honest. This gun is on my radar, and that's putting me kind of off it.


Larry

Yeah, when I noticed them I was a little concerned. After I run some factory rounds through it this weekend I will be contacting Remington. If I tell them it happened with reloads they will probably blame it on the ammo.

It's called primer flow.

It is caused by the firing pin hole being too big or the pin too small.
Either way, it is bad ju-ju.  
That will quickly open up even bigger until the primer fails and you get a KB.

Auto Ordinance had a lot of badly made 1911s in the 80s that had that problem, among others.

i'd guess it's caused by firing pin too "weak", not enough force, the material from the indent has to go somewhere, so they either bulge to the side, or be pushed forward by stronger pin with bigger forward force (which is what it should be)

The RO at my gun range can do the same thing with his polymer CZ 9mm.

I shot a few mags of PMC Bronze factory ammo through it yesterday. As I expected the primers exhibited the same bulge as my reloads.

I am going to take some pics and send them to Remington and see what they say.

Man, I really want to like this little pistol.  I haven't shot mine lately, but I did strip it to clean it tonight since I'm having a buddy make a kydex holster for it.  The process is getting easier, but it isn't what I'd call "user friendly".  Remington markets the gun with the "easy to rack" slide and "user friendly", but I'd say the little "watch-outs" on reassembly aren't really things the novice shooter/owner might notice right away.

About that easy to rack slide, I call BS on that claim too. I used a clamp on the slide to give me an anchor point to try my fish weight scale to get a reading on how many pounds of force were necessary to retract the slide.  It ranged from 18 to 20 lbs on the scale, but mostly 20.  And it was the, shall we say, "characteristic" slide action: choppy and jerky.  

I then put the clamp to my Springer 1911.  18 to 20 lbs on the scale, mostly towards the 18 range, and butter-smooth on the slide action.  Clamped up my CZ Tactical Sports (single action) and guess what?  Just like the 1911:  Mostly 18's with an occasional 20.  Also, butter-smooth slide action.  My Glock and M&P were upstairs, and I'm lazy after hiking 8.5 miles today, so I'll get to those later.

But in terms of "easy to rack", I'd say the 1911 and TS kick the R51's ass in both feel (smoothness) and effort.

Not sure this one will be a long-timer in my personal collection.....

I'm already trying to figure out what I want to replace mine with....

please do walk the miles and measure glock/m&p and whatever else you have, thank you

You're comparing full size guns to a small carry pistol, of course the larger guns are going to have lighter recoil springs.  An officer 1911 has a recoil spring of about 22 lbs vs 16 for a government model, which do you think is easier to manipulate? This "test" is absolutely meaningless unless you compare it to pistols in its own class.

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No, the SHOT demonstrations and sales reps didn't say "easier to rack the slide than similar guns for it size", they said "easier to rack, ideal for female shooters or those with strength challenges."  The implication was that the racking force would be less overall, not less in comparison to similar size pistols.

http://www.waltherarms.com/ccp/#.UznYNFcUBUo
Maybe.  Something to keep your eye on anyway.

M&P40 4.25": 18-20 lbs, mostly on the 18 end of things after 10 pulls.
Glock 23: 20-22 lbs, mostly on the 22 side after 10 pulls.

That's all I've got at the moment, so I can't test any other handguns at this time.  Home-based, part-time FFL, so I don't have a selection of guns to monkey with.


Got my kydex holster made today for it.  Mostly geared towards being able to quickly use the holster on my existing rigs and not for concealed carry.  I've got a Safariland QLS19 on it so I can attach it to my UBL.

That is interesting.

OK...IM me for selling details :)

Same width as a Glock. Might as well carry my G23.

Gotcha. I interpreted that statement to be in comparison to similar pistols instead of a blanket statement but I see what you heard. Besides, it's not like you can trust a salesman anyway.

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How do know when a salesman or politician is lying?



Their lips are moving!

That is one badly drawn pig.

It seems that others are seeing the primer flow/bulges in addition to some other issues.

Rem owners forum R51 issues

If you were thinking about buying one you might want to wait for a resolution by Remington.

Hit a gun show over the weekend, asked a guy from one of the big vendors about the R51. He cringed and told me some horror stories from their in-store range - parts falling off, jams that had to be cleared with a beating, etc. I know to take everything from a gun show with a sack of salt, but the guy didn't seem to be bullshitting.