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Posted: 6/21/2012 7:14:53 PM
[Last Edit: 6/21/2012 7:25:44 PM by Mr45auto]
Newer production M&Ps have greatly improved triggers. My buddy's M&P 9 has nowhere near the trigger of my M&P 45 which I just bought a couple months ago. I have since swapped out to an APEX DCAEK which puts it on par with a stock 1911. I still dont shoot my M&P quite as well as my 1911s but it's getting there. I do significantly better with the M&P tho than I do with glocks. There's just something about them that doesnt work for me. I'm no bullseye shooter by any means but the M&P is the first centerfire handgun I've owned that I shoot nearly as well as with 1911s. So far I've got about 1K or so through my M&P without a hiccup. A bonus is that it shoots very well with 200gr LSWCs.
My 4" .45acp has no issues with early unlocking and poor accuracy. I am looking for an aftermarket source for recoil springs though as I'm sure they'll cost less than S&W factory parts. I burn alot of .45acp  |
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Tirador223
Perdona a tus enemigos pero recuerda sus nombres.
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Joined: Sep 2001  VA, USA
 Posts: 3691 Feedback: 100% (43) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/22/2012 5:24:45 AM
I got rid of my apexed-out M&P and dumped my G19. Now straight Walther products across the board for me.
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Hero
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Posted: 6/22/2012 7:03:38 AM
Originally Posted By Tirador223:
I got rid of my apexed-out M&P and dumped my G19. Now straight Walther products across the board for me. With the PPQ and the PPS, Walther is looking very attractive, IMO. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 5:03:15 PM
[Last Edit: 6/22/2012 5:04:15 PM by Nakanokalronin]
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something?
Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 5:30:58 PM
[Last Edit: 6/22/2012 5:34:20 PM by postwheel]
i just put 1800 rounds give or take throught my m&p vtac 9mm at costa ludus handgun 1 not one failure,of any type missfire, fail to feed, double feed, stovepipe, nothing!!! and i didnt clean it during the course, i froglubed it prior to the class but not again during the 3 days, it is filthy and some of the shooting was prone so it has dirt also but its 100% reliable
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ken_mays
The Power of Browning Compels You
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Joined: May 2001 USA
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Posted: 6/22/2012 5:36:01 PM
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something? Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. 4" @ 25 yards? |
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Marksman14
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Joined: Mar 2001 IL, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2012 6:36:22 PM
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something? Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. If you can't get those drifted....I've got an MGW. Glad to see the spring tightened things up. Never understood why S&W put a 16lbs spring in there anyways. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:17:53 PM
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something? Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. 4" @ 25 yards? 15 yards, which IMO is terrible. I've seen people say "Good shooting!" or "Man, you're a trick shot!" to other people's groups that I would honestly be ashamed of so I'm not sure what the skill level of some people are when they say "Mine is really accurate with great groupings." Grant it, the 20# spring helped, but not enough. I'm still getting the Apex block when it comes out. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:23:46 PM
[Last Edit: 6/22/2012 8:28:25 PM by Nakanokalronin]
Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something? Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. If you can't get those drifted....I've got an MGW. Glad to see the spring tightened things up. Never understood why S&W put a 16lbs spring in there anyways. I drifted it with a Delrin punch and hammer as soon as I came home. The thing is, if you look at the front of the gun, the slide is cocked to the left. I can move it back to center and it stays there, but it can't be shifted the other way (right) which is why I told them about the sloppy slide/frame fit. Why they adjusted the sights, I'll never know. They were perfectly fine and they end up "adjusting" them,making it shoot to the right. Like I said, I must of had the worst "tech" in the place look at the gun or maybe they told the janitor to take over for a minute why they went out back to have a smoke. ETA: I did shoot my newly purchased Shield at the same time. I got a nicely centered 2.5" with the first 7 shots I ever put through the gun at 15 yards. This was the same ammo I was shooting in the FS M&P so I know it's not the ammo either. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:25:54 PM
This gentleman thinks highly of them:
http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/04/glock-vs-m-why-i-shoot-m.html |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:26:42 PM
[Last Edit: 6/22/2012 8:28:48 PM by Geohans]
4 inches at 15 yards slow fire using a sandbag: I would call that terrible. If that's the best your PISTOL is capable of, it is unlikely that you will ever get enough feedback to improve yourself as a shooter.
4 inches at 15 yards slow fire unsupported: I would call that fairly embarrassing. But there are certainly many shooters who would be okay with that. However, achieving that degree of accuracy unsupported requires a pistol that is mechanically more accurate than 4 inches. This is a level of inaccuracy that could contribute to a miss under pressure. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:30:11 PM
Hmmm..the accuracy claims are a bit concerning. I've always been very pleased with my G19s accuracy. Granted, I'm not expecting match accuracy, but some of what I'm hearing from the M&Ps "accuracy" are a little disheartening.
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:31:09 PM
Originally Posted By Geohans:
4 inches at 15 yards slow fire using a sandbag: I would call that terrible. If that's the best your PISTOL is capable of, it is unlikely that you will ever get enough feedback to improve yourself as a shooter. 4 inches at 15 yards slow fire unsupported: I would call that fairly embarrassing. But there are certainly many shooters who would be okay with that. However, achieving that degree of accuracy unsupported requires a pistol that is mechanically more accurate than 4 inches. This is a level of inaccuracy that could contribute to a miss under pressure. Exactly. They're terrible groups. I was shooting it today and all I was thinking was "I would never want to use this thing in a defensive situation. I would miss way more than I would make hits." I hope nobody in LE has an M&P FS 9mm shoot that way and think "yea, that's fine."  |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:35:12 PM
I nearly shit myself when I saw PSA's deal on M&Ps. Then I remembered the look my wife had on her face when I bought my last gun. I'll stick to my Glocks for now (and keep building my M16A4 clone in secret
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:35:30 PM
[Last Edit: 6/22/2012 8:41:33 PM by Nakanokalronin]
Originally Posted By youngAR:
This gentleman thinks highly of them: http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/04/glock-vs-m-why-i-shoot-m.html I did everything in 5 shot groups like in one of the pictures on the 10-8 sight. If I did it at 25 yards like they did, I'll bet there would of been at least 3 rounds that would of not even hit the target. ETA: Remember, not all M&Ps are effected. It seems the Shields, .40s and .45s are fine for the most part and only the larger 9mm models like the full size, some long and and even fewer pro models. I haven't heard to many Compact problems, but their introduction seems to be the reason why the FS models are a crap shoot when it comes to accuracy. |
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Daytona955i
Donate your body to physics.
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Joined: Jun 2004 NY, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2012 11:01:12 PM
Originally Posted By Geohans: 4 inches at 15 yards slow fire using a sandbag: I would call that terrible. If that's the best your PISTOL is capable of, it is unlikely that you will ever get enough feedback to improve yourself as a shooter. 4 inches at 15 yards slow fire unsupported: I would call that fairly embarrassing. But there are certainly many shooters who would be okay with that. However, achieving that degree of accuracy unsupported requires a pistol that is mechanically more accurate than 4 inches. This is a level of inaccuracy that could contribute to a miss under pressure. I drilled 3 headshots faster than you can clap your hands three times using my M&P in IDPA last night. From 15 yards. Not all guns 9mm M&P's are afflicted. |
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Posted: 6/23/2012 7:52:09 AM
Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
Originally Posted By Geohans:
4 inches at 15 yards slow fire using a sandbag: I would call that terrible. If that's the best your PISTOL is capable of, it is unlikely that you will ever get enough feedback to improve yourself as a shooter. 4 inches at 15 yards slow fire unsupported: I would call that fairly embarrassing. But there are certainly many shooters who would be okay with that. However, achieving that degree of accuracy unsupported requires a pistol that is mechanically more accurate than 4 inches. This is a level of inaccuracy that could contribute to a miss under pressure. I drilled 3 headshots faster than you can clap your hands three times using my M&P in IDPA last night. From 15 yards. Not all guns 9mm M&P's are afflicted. Is there a way of telling before hand (serial number ranges, etc), or is it just a gamble? |
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Posted: 6/23/2012 10:01:05 AM
I just picked up a brand new M&P9c last week and am very surprised at it's quality. It looks like a bigger gun than a g26/27 but when I put it next toy G27 it ppeared only a small fraction of an inch taller and a little bit longer. The M&P also feels like it gives you more to hang onto because of the shape of the grip and, therefore, feels like you can use a grip more like that used on a larger gun. It carries an extra 2 rounds standard over the g26 so the size/capacity comparison is a wash between the two. Where the Glock has the M&P beat out of the box is the trigger. My M&P felt like it had a tough break witha lot of overtravel at first but started feeling like the striker was rolling off the sear more pleasently after justna few rounds, thus mitigating what previously felt like a jerky overtravel.
For the design features offered I really lile the M&Pc and didn't notice any mechanical accuracy issues. I am Going to buff the fire control parts to see if that helps amd perhaps drop in some APEX parts to see what the full potential of the design is. I am not going to get rid of any Glocks but I do see the M&P9c potentially filling a gap if I can figure out the trigger. |
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ken_mays
The Power of Browning Compels You
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Joined: May 2001 USA
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Posted: 6/23/2012 11:28:04 AM
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something? Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. 4" @ 25 yards? 15 yards, which IMO is terrible. I've seen people say "Good shooting!" or "Man, you're a trick shot!" to other people's groups that I would honestly be ashamed of so I'm not sure what the skill level of some people are when they say "Mine is really accurate with great groupings." Grant it, the 20# spring helped, but not enough. I'm still getting the Apex block when it comes out. I think mine will do about 6" @ 25 yards, maybe a shade better, at least with 124 grain bullets. The last time I tried 147 grainers, they were keyholing at 15 yards. I have another M&P 9mm as a backup that I need to bench to see if suffers from the same problem. |
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Winn
Ready aye Ready
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Posted: 6/23/2012 12:17:48 PM
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something? Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. 4" @ 25 yards? 15 yards, which IMO is terrible. I've seen people say "Good shooting!" or "Man, you're a trick shot!" to other people's groups that I would honestly be ashamed of so I'm not sure what the skill level of some people are when they say "Mine is really accurate with great groupings." Grant it, the 20# spring helped, but not enough. I'm still getting the Apex block when it comes out. I think mine will do about 6" @ 25 yards, maybe a shade better, at least with 124 grain bullets. The last time I tried 147 grainers, they were keyholing at 15 yards. I have another M&P 9mm as a backup that I need to bench to see if suffers from the same problem. Was that out of a full size gun or a compact? |
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ken_mays
The Power of Browning Compels You
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Joined: May 2001 USA
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Posted: 6/23/2012 12:20:03 PM
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something? Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. 4" @ 25 yards? 15 yards, which IMO is terrible. I've seen people say "Good shooting!" or "Man, you're a trick shot!" to other people's groups that I would honestly be ashamed of so I'm not sure what the skill level of some people are when they say "Mine is really accurate with great groupings." Grant it, the 20# spring helped, but not enough. I'm still getting the Apex block when it comes out. I think mine will do about 6" @ 25 yards, maybe a shade better, at least with 124 grain bullets. The last time I tried 147 grainers, they were keyholing at 15 yards. I have another M&P 9mm as a backup that I need to bench to see if suffers from the same problem. Was that out of a full size gun or a compact? 4.5" Service model. |
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Winn
Ready aye Ready
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Joined: Jan 2006 CO, USA
Posts: 6029 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/23/2012 9:06:34 PM
[Last Edit: 6/23/2012 9:07:02 PM by Winn]
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Turns out S&W adjusted my sight to shoot to the right. Did it with every ammo I brought with me and when I got home, my laser bore sighter confirmed it. The only thing they did was make something worse. Did the new lackey tech that hates his job look at my gun or something? Either way, it seems the 20# recoil spring did tighten things up to about a 4" group. Now it's time to wait for Apex to get that locking block rolling. 4" @ 25 yards? 15 yards, which IMO is terrible. I've seen people say "Good shooting!" or "Man, you're a trick shot!" to other people's groups that I would honestly be ashamed of so I'm not sure what the skill level of some people are when they say "Mine is really accurate with great groupings." Grant it, the 20# spring helped, but not enough. I'm still getting the Apex block when it comes out. I think mine will do about 6" @ 25 yards, maybe a shade better, at least with 124 grain bullets. The last time I tried 147 grainers, they were keyholing at 15 yards. I have another M&P 9mm as a backup that I need to bench to see if suffers from the same problem. Was that out of a full size gun or a compact? 4.5" Service model. Ugghhh. |
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Posted: 6/24/2012 12:56:14 AM
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Originally Posted By youngAR:
This gentleman thinks highly of them: http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2012/04/glock-vs-m-why-i-shoot-m.html I did everything in 5 shot groups like in one of the pictures on the 10-8 sight. If I did it at 25 yards like they did, I'll bet there would of been at least 3 rounds that would of not even hit the target. ETA: Remember, not all M&Ps are effected. It seems the Shields, .40s and .45s are fine for the most part and only the larger 9mm models like the full size, some long and and even fewer pro models. I haven't heard to many Compact problems, but their introduction seems to be the reason why the FS models are a crap shoot when it comes to accuracy. my 40 full size had the problem (I say had because I got rid of it) - see my pics on page 3 |
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Posted: 6/24/2012 1:18:35 AM
I guess my problem is that I would not own a gun of which existed even one example capable of shooting 12 inch groups at 25 yards, or that would keyhole certain ammo weights at 15 yards.
i just don't know what's wrong with me! Ergonomics schwergonomics! Please someone announce when they've fixed all this. . . . . |
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Posted: 6/24/2012 1:55:58 AM
[Last Edit: 6/24/2012 1:56:23 AM by Nakanokalronin]
Originally Posted By Geohans:
I guess my problem is that I would not own a gun of which existed even one example capable of shooting 12 inch groups at 25 yards, or that would keyhole certain ammo weights at 15 yards. i just don't know what's wrong with me! Ergonomics schwergonomics! Please someone announce when they've fixed all this. . . . . The accuracy is the only issue I've experienced. I think Apex will fix it before S&W does. |
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