I respectfully disagree with this. I have never had any of the first rounds in DA mode go into the dirt my GF's FNP40.

I sold my SCAR for the same reason.

I wanted a bbl and they wouldn't/couldn't sell me one.

That doesn't mean they don't support their pistol line, but it irritated me enough to not want to keep the rifle.

Jeff Cooper has been dead for almost 10 years. He mentioned hammer bite many decades ago. Revisions to the shape of the hammer on the Hi-Power were done primarily to deal with hammer bite. They also predate your imaginary 10 year line. So the idea that hammer bits is a recent contrivance is nonsense.



There are former SAS guys out there that have spoken about it. Hell, they even went on a TV show called Weaponology and talked about it.

They encountered the same problems with the weapon that the FBI HRT encountered when they experimented with the HP. What you don't seem to understand is that the HP was looked at seriously by pretty much every western counter-terrorism unit in the world who was looking for a high capacity sidearm and was rejected because of how poorly it handled a high volume of shooting. They tended to wear out quicker and require more maintenance. Novak (who knows his HP's) is on record talking about the steps necessary to keep a HP happy over the long haul...one of which is not using +P ammo, which happens to be the standard spec for 9mm ammo overseas and in the US military.



Yes, it is the case. As I said, pretty much every counter terrorism unit in the west that's worth anything looked at the HP as a potential sidearm, especially in countries where the HP was the sidearm issued to their military forces. High capacity and large caliber (because for Europe 9mm was a "big" cartridge compared to their standard sidearms for police and the military) made it an attractive option. Actual testing and experimentation with the weapon usually ruled it out and led to acquiring or seeking out other weapons. This is why, for example, HRT's flirtation with the HP as a sidearm was short-lived.

Other guns they looked at that didn't pan out include double-stack 1911's of various manufacture and design.



Bureaucrats were not spec'ing the handguns selected by HRT. Or Delta. Or DEVGRU. Or FBI regional SWAT teams. Guys who had experience as trigger pullers were running the tests and making the recommendations.



To give you some idea of what we're talking about here, there is a particular branch of SOF where they will fire 4,000 handgun rounds in a week (many of them suppressed) in the process of a trainup for a deployment. The weapons they use at the training center then get used by the next group put through that block. And the next one. And the next one. Somewhere around the 20,000-25,000 round mark they get cleaned (most likely by being dropped into an ultrasonic tank) and then they go back out for another round.

And that's one reason why that group doesn't use HP's.

Which goes back to my original point: In today's age when there are pistols on the market which don't require armorer level attention but every 25,000 rounds, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to spend the same money on a more maintenance intensive, less ergonomic, less adaptable weapon like the HP. Which is why they wouldn't do well on today's market and why CDNN was selling off a bunch of them for $400 bucks a pop. (I bought one at that price just because I wanted a HP) In 1935 it was light years ahead of most other weapons in the world.

To give some perspective on how long ago that was, trans-Atlantic flight was relatively new. Modern police and military agencies have different expectations of sidearms, and it's police and military contracts that drive the market. The market direction is cheaper firearms that don't require much in the way of maintenance or TLC to run for tens of thousands of rounds. That is not a description of the HP. Enthusiasts and collectors may love the heck out of them, but enthusiasts and collectors are not how companies like FN stay in business. Enthusiasst and collectors are how companies like Heirloom Precision stay in business.

Jeff Cooper had a hardon for the 1911 and tried to find as much fault as possible with anything that smelled of 9mm.....I take his opinions of the Hi Power with a grain of salt.

Again, hammer bite on a Hi Power is almost always caused by incorrect grip technique. Heck, I've seen a guy get cut by gripping his Glock too high.....is that the fault of the Glock design?


Weaponology? Oh good grief. Maybe i should have asked for a source more credible than Entertainment Tonight.


As well as the 1911? heck the FBI has used nearly three dozen handguns as "official issue".........you again offer nothing as evidence of your claim that the Hi Power has durability or reliability issues.



Again CITATION PLEASE.
Pretty amazing that the Hi Power handles .40 pretty easily, yet 9mm+P is a problem? Nonsense.
The only reference to OLDER (forged frame) HP having an issue with +P is by Bill Laughlin of C&S and referenced forged frame HP's he saw in a repair facility.

Then provide the citation.


Are you ignorant of political and economic reasons that a particular firearm would be chosen over another?
These "counterterrorism units" you are giving so much credence to are generally post 1972.......when post war Germany wanted to outfit their police, military and secret squirrels with "Made in Germany" guns. As did nearly every country.....if they had a home grown arms manufacturer they got preference. And that preference was due to political and economic reasons.....not because the Hi Power was unreliable .


So....your privy to the handguns that were tested and evaluated? Please provide a citation.
I seriously doubt that these units tested the Hi Power AT ALL.......please tell us what 9mm single action handgun those units chose?
FN has not submitted a Hi Power to the US military in DECADES! They prefer to push the cheaper to manufacture plastic guns (yielding a higher profit) than a heavy steel gun with thirteen round mag.

You made the claim that the High Power was not durable or reliable..............that flies in the face of every military that has issued the HP. You have not provided one shred of evidence (beyond Weaponology) that ANY military or "agency" has found the FN HP to be unreliable. Sure, if your specs say a handgun has to run 100,000 without needing parts replacement then the HP probably wont meet that spec. BUT....with proper maintenance it will

Unreliable?
Poor ergonomics?
Not durable?

Complete horseshit.

Joe Bonar, Wayne Novak, Bruce Gray, and Bill Laughridge (among others) have all stated that the BHP won't stand up to a lot of shooting. I think it was Bruce Gray who once said "No matter who built it or what you do to it, the HP is at best a 15,000 round gun." The newer cast frame guns, which were only introduced in 1993 IIRC (and represent a tiny fraction of the HPs floating around in civilian hands) seem to hold up better. The slides have also been beefed up, which is good since they're what tend to crack. Patrick Sweeney has a documented 23k rounds through his cast frame gun.

What the upper round count is on the gun, I'm not really sure. But aside from the durability concern, the HP has design flaws that make me prefer something else. Narrow magwell, trigger which is crappy in several dimensions, unusable safety until we get to the MKIII guns, and hammer bite.

The current HPs have mostly fixed all my gripes, but to claim that the HP offers any functional performance that newer platforms like the Glock and M&P won't offer for less money is simply not reality.

double tap

[
No shit. As I said DECADES.....that design was discontinued in the EIGHTIES.
(and this pistol despite FN slapping the name "Hi Power" on it is not simply a double action version of the HP.....few if any parts including the magazine interchange.

It's never a good idea to start an argument with JW777. He is one of a handful of people on this forum that when he talks, you should just sit back and listen. Even if you don't agree with him, you probably should listen as he is certainly more informed. Ask him who's STG he is shooting in his avatar pic. His knowledge and experience isn't just form books. No disrespect to the other posters. They are helping this become a very informative thread.

"Believe" whatever you wish to believe, but if you look at actual Requests For Proposal put out by various military and LE organizations (a step in the contracting process where companies are allowed to put bids in) you won't see something like "polymer frame" in the requirements for the pistols. Look at the recent BATFE pistol contract process and you'll get an apparently badly needed clue as to how the process works.

The FBI wanted a single-action, double stack handgun that was reliable. They looked at the HP and double stack 1911's and ended up not sticking with either because they were too problematic in high volume shooting.

Those who make the decisions about purchasing for large contracts aren't interested in expensive, finicky pistols with heavy maintenance requirements these days. When you look around at what departments/agencies are buying, they tend to go for durable, relatively low maintenance, relatively inexpensive pistols...which rules out the Hi-Power and is, again, the reason why they don't sell well today. This is not some abstraction I came up with out of nowhere, it's a statement based on the reality that FN couldn't move the damn things when they were in the catalog. FN came up with pistols like the FNP precisely because nobody looking for contracts was remotely interested in the HP.

Marketing can sell a lot of goofy shit for sure (just look at the Serpa) but there are limits to what marketing can do. The HP was conceived of as a military pistol designed to get around patents that JMB sold to Colt. Today as a general issue sidearm it is simply outclassed by modern designs which are cheaper, require less maintenance, tend to be more durable, and are more adaptable. Hate it all you want, that's just the way it is.

I was referring to the FNP series. But I do agree with your comments regarding the HP, except for the marketing part. It has low relative capacity, no light rail, and it is heavy.

Primarily, Glocks (gen 2, 3, and 4), M&P's, and 1911's. Longevity and not reliability or ergonomics is the limiting factor for the Hi Power, IMO.

That makes more sense. I was not too impressed with FNP series. I'd take an M&P over that any day (or any other non-HP pistol, maybe with the exception of a 1911).

I bought an FNX9 and sold off my glock19. the trigger is way better than the glock. Never had a Da shot go in the dirt. its a great gun and i would be willing to bet half the people who have posted about them sucking have never fired one. i put 500 rounds through mine at a pistol class got it all dirty never had a problem.