Sig Quality - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sig Quality (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 5/10/2011 3:31:48 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Most of you know how I feel about Sig these days. They flat out SUCK ass!!! I posted many of my problem with newer Sigs and posted pictures of the problems. Pre 2004 Sigs are still some of the best pistols ever made but anything coming out of their factory today is garbage. Plus their prices have sky rocketed and for what? More shitty quality control!

Huh... I must be the luckiest man alive! All of SIGs work great, and I keep on paying less for them than I did before. Several years ago when I traded in a "standard" P226 in on a P226R, the price on the "R" model was $799. The P228R that I bought last August was $699 and the P239 that I bought a couple of months ago was $609. All were NIB and have NS. The "custom shop" 2-tone P239 SAS w/ NS & SRT trigger that I bought my wife in December of last year, was the same price that I paid for my P226R. It's obvious that your shopping skills suck.

Please tell me how new SIGs "suck ass" compared to other brands now. If my armorer told me that I could no longer carry a SIG, the only weapon brand that I would buy to replace them is H&K. The SIGs (new or old) and H&K's are above all others from my experience.

There is NO point in arguing, the haters are going to hate, regardless of any data you could present.

You could show data (assuming we had it) that shows that post 2004 Sigs have a failure rate that is slightly better than the industry average set by all major brands (Smith, Glock, Sig, FNH, Ruger, Beretta, Kimber, Springer, etc...) and the Sig haters would still say things like "all new sigs are junk".

When what they really mean is "I'm pissed off that I have to be careful about a Sig purchase, because I loved that in the past I never had to exercise care, if it said SigSauer, it was GTG".

I share their disappointment, but to say "all new sigs are junk" is an overstatement of grand proportions.

Posted: 5/10/2011 4:54:05 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
There is NO point in arguing, the haters are going to hate, regardless of any data you could present.

You could show data (assuming we had it) that shows that post 2004 Sigs have a failure rate that is slightly better than the industry average set by all major brands (Smith, Glock, Sig, FNH, Ruger, Beretta, Kimber, Springer, etc...) and the Sig haters would still say things like "all new sigs are junk".

Exactly. No one here knows what the failure/return rates of the major manufactures are. If S&W sells 400k handguns a year and H&K only sells 50k, you will hear more about S&W's issues even though they are both running at a 5% failure rate. It's simple math, really.

Quoted:
When what they really mean is "I'm pissed off that I have to be careful about a Sig purchase, because I loved that in the past I never had to exercise care, if it said SigSauer, it was GTG".

I share their disappointment, but to say "all new sigs are junk" is an overstatement of grand proportions.

Honestly, I don't trust ANY firearm "out of the box." It doesn't matter what name is stamped on the side. All manufactures put out lemons, have a bad run of parts, or accidently put the wrong spring in etc, including H&K. I don't think you have to be any more "careful" if you're buying a classic SIG than you do other brands.

Another thing to remember is that 15-20 years ago, people couldn't bitch about something at a click of a button. For every 1 person that kicks and screams about an item, there are a thousand that are very happy with their purchase.

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:21:05 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There is NO point in arguing, the haters are going to hate, regardless of any data you could present.

You could show data (assuming we had it) that shows that post 2004 Sigs have a failure rate that is slightly better than the industry average set by all major brands (Smith, Glock, Sig, FNH, Ruger, Beretta, Kimber, Springer, etc...) and the Sig haters would still say things like "all new sigs are junk".

Exactly. No one here knows what the failure/return rates of the major manufactures are. If S&W sells 400k handguns a year and H&K only sells 50k, you will hear more about S&W's issues even though they are both running at a 5% failure rate. It's simple math, really.

Quoted:
When what they really mean is "I'm pissed off that I have to be careful about a Sig purchase, because I loved that in the past I never had to exercise care, if it said SigSauer, it was GTG".

I share their disappointment, but to say "all new sigs are junk" is an overstatement of grand proportions.

Honestly, I don't trust ANY firearm "out of the box." It doesn't matter what name is stamped on the side. All manufactures put out lemons, have a bad run of parts, or accidently put the wrong spring in etc, including H&K. I don't think you have to be any more "careful" if you're buying a classic SIG than you do other brands.

Another thing to remember is that 15-20 years ago, people couldn't bitch about something at a click of a button. For every 1 person that kicks and screams about an item, there are a thousand that are very happy with their purchase.

Well technically based on that logic, Sig may be producing the same thing as they always have been, except up until the recent boom of the internet, nobody could tell anyone else how much they really sucked?

And don't worry, yes that was a joke.

Seriously man, you've gotta switch to decaf. Anytime anyone says anything about Sig that doesn't ooze awesomeness, you pop up and give the same story every single time because you have a handful of Sigs that work. Nobody here has a bone to pick with Sig, and this isn't some vast conspiracy to make you believe that the weapon that has worked well for you is a complete POS. People are reporting more problems with Sigs now than they were before, or maybe its simply that they have the ability to communicate it easier...who knows and frankly who cares. Take that for what it is, and understand that the perception of the masses is going to reflect it...but its nothing personal, and we all know that there are plenty of Sigs out there that work. There are plenty of posters in this thread who have had as many or more Sigs as you, and yes, some of their experiences differ from yours. So be it.

Posted: 5/10/2011 5:42:39 PM EDT

[#4]

I have several Sigs, love them, carry them sometimes, shoot IDPA with them. Only ONE of them has ever given me a problem, Sig picked up shipping both ways and had it fixed and back to me in around a week.
Took it out and abused it with my Osprey, no problems at all.

Posted: 5/10/2011 8:34:39 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Seriously man, you've gotta switch to decaf. Anytime anyone says anything about Sig that doesn't ooze awesomeness, you pop up and give the same story every single time because you have a handful of Sigs that work. Nobody here has a bone to pick with Sig, and this isn't some vast conspiracy to make you believe that the weapon that has worked well for you is a complete POS. People are reporting more problems with Sigs now than they were before, or maybe its simply that they have the ability to communicate it easier...who knows and frankly who cares. Take that for what it is, and understand that the perception of the masses is going to reflect it...but its nothing personal, and we all know that there are plenty of Sigs out there that work. There are plenty of posters in this thread who have had as many or more Sigs as you, and yes, some of their experiences differ from yours. So be it.

I couldn't care less if people don't care for a particular firearm, they just need to stop making blanket statements. Sure, I have only owned a handful (9) of SIGs, but I do get to see all of the main players and calibers at work/training, which a lot of people here do not. They take their sample of one or two and blow it out of proportion. Do I go into every Glock thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen them kaboom, break frame rails, malfunction with lights and get shipped with out of spec barrels? Nope. Do I go to every M&P thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen the magazine problems, rust, terrible triggers and one that the slide locked to the rear and wouldn't go back forward? Nope. I don't because I know, and see, that the majority of them work just fine.

I will switch to decaf when you can stay out of the XD threads and let the owners enjoy them.

Btw... I think Paul Hotaling summed it up best at another forum. It was in response to a thread asking "are there any reliable handguns available?' Paul works for Grey Group Training and happens to go to a lot of firearms classes with the top trainers in the industry. Here it is...

Oddly enough I go to allot of training classes and weapons malfunctions of any kind are rare. I personally think the Internet “The Sky Is Falling” on damn near every handgun known to man is getting completely out of hand. I just watched a Gen4 G19 run like a raped ape, multiple Sig’s w/o issues, etc. I see 1911’s of all price ranges run just fine in classes. Like I said, malfunctions of any kind are rare and when they do happen a quick lube usually fixes it. If you trust the internet these guns should have all exploded into pieces. It’s getting completely out of hand. Personally I blame allot of it on certain individuals wanting to be seen as experts.

IMO: Buy a service quality Glock, Beretta, Sig, Smith & Wesson, HK, etc and go shoot it.

Posted: 5/11/2011 6:26:35 AM EDT

[#6]

S-1 I hear you for sure.

I'm not a Sig fanboy, but the company has treated me very well, I trust my life to my SP2340 as well as my Sig556...not because they say Sig on them, but because I've run them through a gauntlet of tests and I KNOW they work.

I also do not trust any firearm out of the box.

My only problem is the blanket statements of certain doom such as "Sig is junk now". Such a ridiculous statement to make, and the irony is that you mostly hear it in reference to the BETTER manufacturers.

I honestly think that when you can find people bashing a brand like Glock, that has (to the best of my knowledge) the best track record in the industry for reliability, you know that something is deeply askew in the gun enthusiast community.

Posted: 5/11/2011 9:58:43 AM EDT

[#7]

Here is my experience with SIG-SAUER:

SIG P228 - Nice gun, very accurate, but it would constanly fail to lock back with FMJ range loads. It also ejected every and single brass directly towards my forehead. Trade it for a SIGP229

SIG P229 - Flawless gun, never jammed, accurate, no complains whatsoever.

SIG P220R Combat - The model with the FDE frame. It jammed all the time, sights were poorly adjusted at the factory and the recoil was spring was too light, almost like someone put the wrong recoil spring in the gun. I replaced the recoil spring, but never managed to get rid of jamming problems. Sold it.

SIG P220R Stainless Steel frame - Excelent gun, never had a problem with it. Will shoot any ammo I fed it. Sold it because It was too bulky to carry and I was sitting on my safe for months w/o use.

SIG 1911 TACOPS - Got it a couple of weeks ago. Perfect finish, worked right out of the box with loads ranging from 165 to 230 grains, hollow points and SWC. Awsome gun !

Posted: 5/11/2011 10:02:52 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Here is my experience with SIG-SAUER:

SIG P228 - Nice gun, very accurate, but it would constanly fail to lock back with FMJ range loads. It also ejected every and single brass directly towards my forehead. Trade it for a SIGP229

SIG P229 - Flawless gun, never jammed, accurate, no complains whatsoever.

SIG P220R Combat - The model with the FDE frame. It jammed all the time, sights were poorly adjusted at the factory and the recoil was spring was too light, almost like someone put the wrong recoil spring in the gun. I replaced the recoil spring, but never managed to get rid of jamming problems. Sold it.

SIG P220R Stainless Steel frame - Excelent gun, never had a problem with it. Will shoot any ammo I fed it. Sold it because It was too bulky to carry and I was sitting on my safe for months w/o use.

SIG 1911 TACOPS - Got it a couple of weeks ago. Perfect finish, worked right out of the box with loads ranging from 165 to 230 grains, hollow points and SWC. Awsome gun !

I'm curious why you didn't send the P220R Combat back to Sig for inspection/repair?

I would feel bad about selling a gun that I know didn't run right, I know its buyer beware, but personally I'd rather get the manufacturer to make it right.

Of course, I've also never owned a firearm that had problems, every one I've ever owned has been flawless over thousands of rounds put through each one.

Posted: 5/11/2011 1:51:32 PM EDT

[#9]

Love my 1997 P229 40sw

Posted: 5/11/2011 5:31:23 PM EDT

[#10]

Sometimes I do, but on this case I was really frustaded and expecting more of that pistol. It was a lemon. Luckly I got almost the same price I paid for it. However like i wrote, my sig 1911 is perfect

Posted: 5/12/2011 6:41:50 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Seriously man, you've gotta switch to decaf. Anytime anyone says anything about Sig that doesn't ooze awesomeness, you pop up and give the same story every single time because you have a handful of Sigs that work. Nobody here has a bone to pick with Sig, and this isn't some vast conspiracy to make you believe that the weapon that has worked well for you is a complete POS. People are reporting more problems with Sigs now than they were before, or maybe its simply that they have the ability to communicate it easier...who knows and frankly who cares. Take that for what it is, and understand that the perception of the masses is going to reflect it...but its nothing personal, and we all know that there are plenty of Sigs out there that work. There are plenty of posters in this thread who have had as many or more Sigs as you, and yes, some of their experiences differ from yours. So be it.

I couldn't care less if people don't care for a particular firearm, they just need to stop making blanket statements. Sure, I have only owned a handful (9) of SIGs, but I do get to see all of the main players and calibers at work/training, which a lot of people here do not. They take their sample of one or two and blow it out of proportion. Do I go into every Glock thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen them kaboom, break frame rails, malfunction with lights and get shipped with out of spec barrels?Nope. Do I go to every M&P thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen the magazine problems, rust, terrible triggers and one that the slide locked to the rear and wouldn't go back forward? Nope. I don't because I know, and see, that the majority of them work just fine.

I will switch to decaf when you can stay out of the XD threads and let the owners enjoy them.

Btw... I think Paul Hotaling summed it up best at another forum. It was in response to a thread asking "are there any reliable handguns available?' Paul works for Grey Group Training and happens to go to a lot of firearms classes with the top trainers in the industry. Here it is...

Oddly enough I go to allot of training classes and weapons malfunctions of any kind are rare. I personally think the Internet “The Sky Is Falling” on damn near every handgun known to man is getting completely out of hand. I just watched a Gen4 G19 run like a raped ape, multiple Sig’s w/o issues, etc. I see 1911’s of all price ranges run just fine in classes. Like I said, malfunctions of any kind are rare and when they do happen a quick lube usually fixes it. If you trust the internet these guns should have all exploded into pieces. It’s getting completely out of hand. Personally I blame allot of it on certain individuals wanting to be seen as experts.

IMO: Buy a service quality Glock, Beretta, Sig, Smith & Wesson, HK, etc and go shoot it.

Actually no, you do that in every thread where someone says something about Sig that you don't like to try and defend your brand by ensuring everyone that Sig isn't the only brand that has issues.

I'm flattered that you follow me around arfcom to think you know my posting habits

Posted: 5/12/2011 7:18:47 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I'm flattered that you follow me around arfcom to think you know my posting habits

Ditto.

Posted: 5/12/2011 7:23:27 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm flattered that you follow me around arfcom to think you know my posting habits

Ditto.

Posted: 5/12/2011 4:22:02 PM EDT

[#14]

Just picked up a 226R 9mm today (my first Sig), ran fine - pleasure to shoot. Mechanics were all tight, nice fit and finish. Love the ergo's. No complaints so far.

Posted: 5/12/2011 4:48:43 PM EDT

[#15]

My experience with sig

Pre 2000 P226- (friends) shot great but had issues with light hammer strikes resulting in multiple trigger pulls. He had a short trigger put in and some 'work' done and the problem went away.

Post 2000 pre 2004 P226- (brothers) same problem with light hammer strikes. New springs didn't help and still has problems with light hammer strikes.

2010 P226R - (Mine) solid gun one random jam that I haven't repeated. Over 4k rounds through it. It did have the illumination vile on the front sight brake off. Night sight still works :)

2010 P229R - (Brothers) so far after a few hundred rounds it's gtg.

Take it for what uts worth.

Posted: 5/13/2011 4:48:37 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Seriously man, you've gotta switch to decaf. Anytime anyone says anything about Sig that doesn't ooze awesomeness, you pop up and give the same story every single time because you have a handful of Sigs that work. Nobody here has a bone to pick with Sig, and this isn't some vast conspiracy to make you believe that the weapon that has worked well for you is a complete POS. People are reporting more problems with Sigs now than they were before, or maybe its simply that they have the ability to communicate it easier...who knows and frankly who cares. Take that for what it is, and understand that the perception of the masses is going to reflect it...but its nothing personal, and we all know that there are plenty of Sigs out there that work. There are plenty of posters in this thread who have had as many or more Sigs as you, and yes, some of their experiences differ from yours. So be it.

I couldn't care less if people don't care for a particular firearm, they just need to stop making blanket statements. Sure, I have only owned a handful (9) of SIGs, but I do get to see all of the main players and calibers at work/training, which a lot of people here do not. They take their sample of one or two and blow it out of proportion. Do I go into every Glock thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen them kaboom, break frame rails, malfunction with lights and get shipped with out of spec barrels?Nope. Do I go to every M&P thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen the magazine problems, rust, terrible triggers and one that the slide locked to the rear and wouldn't go back forward? Nope. I don't because I know, and see, that the majority of them work just fine.

I will switch to decaf when you can stay out of the XD threads and let the owners enjoy them.

Btw... I think Paul Hotaling summed it up best at another forum. It was in response to a thread asking "are there any reliable handguns available?' Paul works for Grey Group Training and happens to go to a lot of firearms classes with the top trainers in the industry. Here it is...

Oddly enough I go to allot of training classes and weapons malfunctions of any kind are rare. I personally think the Internet “The Sky Is Falling” on damn near every handgun known to man is getting completely out of hand. I just watched a Gen4 G19 run like a raped ape, multiple Sig’s w/o issues, etc. I see 1911’s of all price ranges run just fine in classes. Like I said, malfunctions of any kind are rare and when they do happen a quick lube usually fixes it. If you trust the internet these guns should have all exploded into pieces. It’s getting completely out of hand. Personally I blame allot of it on certain individuals wanting to be seen as experts.

IMO: Buy a service quality Glock, Beretta, Sig, Smith & Wesson, HK, etc and go shoot it.

Actually no, you do that in every thread where someone says something about Sig that you don't like to try and defend your brand by ensuring everyone that Sig isn't the only brand that has issues.

I'm flattered that you follow me around arfcom to think you know my posting habits

What the fuck do you even do in these threads besides troll?

Posted: 5/14/2011 4:41:23 AM EDT

[#17]

ITT we now demonstrate why handgun discussion needs more mods.

Posted: 5/14/2011 7:44:40 AM EDT

[#18]

I used to have a P220 and a P226, both of them West German, and they were fine firearms.

The US made Sigs on the other hand, have had a large amount of QC issues. I would not own a domestically made Sig, If you want one find a German Sig

And the 250 series are just a attempt to get in the mainstream polymer gun market, and only cost $359 for a reason. Both the Glock and M&P I feel are a better platform.

Posted: 5/14/2011 8:21:15 AM EDT

[#19]

I'll only buy buying older sigs for the foreseeable future.

Posted: 5/14/2011 8:52:44 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I used to have a P220 and a P226, both of them West German, and they were fine firearms.

The US made Sigs on the other hand, have had a large amount of QC issues. I would not own a domestically made Sig, If you want one find a German Sig

And the 250 series are just a attempt to get in the mainstream polymer gun market, and only cost $359 for a reason. Both the Glock and M&P I feel are a better platform.

Since you used to have two German SIGs, what is your experience with the US made guns?

Yes, the P250 is garbage.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:22:04 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I used to have a P220 and a P226, both of them West German, and they were fine firearms.

The US made Sigs on the other hand, have had a large amount of QC issues. I would not own a domestically made Sig, If you want one find a German Sig

And the 250 series are just a attempt to get in the mainstream polymer gun market, and only cost $359 for a reason. Both the Glock and M&P I feel are a better platform.

Since you used to have two German SIGs, what is your experience with the US made guns?

Yes, the P250 is garbage.

I have not owned one, A guy I worked with got a US made P220 and the machining marks on the underside of the slide were not as nice and smooth as my German P220, and there was a little play between the slide and frame.

It functioned fine with no failures, I just feel like the standards have dropped since Sig Sauer started making them domestically. Please understand I am not trashing the US made Sig's, just stating that the original German models seem to have more care taken in production.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:27:02 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Seriously man, you've gotta switch to decaf. Anytime anyone says anything about Sig that doesn't ooze awesomeness, you pop up and give the same story every single time because you have a handful of Sigs that work. Nobody here has a bone to pick with Sig, and this isn't some vast conspiracy to make you believe that the weapon that has worked well for you is a complete POS. People are reporting more problems with Sigs now than they were before, or maybe its simply that they have the ability to communicate it easier...who knows and frankly who cares. Take that for what it is, and understand that the perception of the masses is going to reflect it...but its nothing personal, and we all know that there are plenty of Sigs out there that work. There are plenty of posters in this thread who have had as many or more Sigs as you, and yes, some of their experiences differ from yours. So be it.

I couldn't care less if people don't care for a particular firearm, they just need to stop making blanket statements. Sure, I have only owned a handful (9) of SIGs, but I do get to see all of the main players and calibers at work/training, which a lot of people here do not. They take their sample of one or two and blow it out of proportion. Do I go into every Glock thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen them kaboom, break frame rails, malfunction with lights and get shipped with out of spec barrels?Nope. Do I go to every M&P thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen the magazine problems, rust, terrible triggers and one that the slide locked to the rear and wouldn't go back forward? Nope. I don't because I know, and see, that the majority of them work just fine.

I will switch to decaf when you can stay out of the XD threads and let the owners enjoy them.

Btw... I think Paul Hotaling summed it up best at another forum. It was in response to a thread asking "are there any reliable handguns available?' Paul works for Grey Group Training and happens to go to a lot of firearms classes with the top trainers in the industry. Here it is...

Oddly enough I go to allot of training classes and weapons malfunctions of any kind are rare. I personally think the Internet “The Sky Is Falling” on damn near every handgun known to man is getting completely out of hand. I just watched a Gen4 G19 run like a raped ape, multiple Sig’s w/o issues, etc. I see 1911’s of all price ranges run just fine in classes. Like I said, malfunctions of any kind are rare and when they do happen a quick lube usually fixes it. If you trust the internet these guns should have all exploded into pieces. It’s getting completely out of hand. Personally I blame allot of it on certain individuals wanting to be seen as experts.

IMO: Buy a service quality Glock, Beretta, Sig, Smith & Wesson, HK, etc and go shoot it.

Actually no, you do that in every thread where someone says something about Sig that you don't like to try and defend your brand by ensuring everyone that Sig isn't the only brand that has issues.

I'm flattered that you follow me around arfcom to think you know my posting habits

What the fuck do you even do in these threads besides troll?

Took you long enough to get here

Posted: 5/14/2011 10:14:04 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Seriously man, you've gotta switch to decaf. Anytime anyone says anything about Sig that doesn't ooze awesomeness, you pop up and give the same story every single time because you have a handful of Sigs that work. Nobody here has a bone to pick with Sig, and this isn't some vast conspiracy to make you believe that the weapon that has worked well for you is a complete POS. People are reporting more problems with Sigs now than they were before, or maybe its simply that they have the ability to communicate it easier...who knows and frankly who cares. Take that for what it is, and understand that the perception of the masses is going to reflect it...but its nothing personal, and we all know that there are plenty of Sigs out there that work. There are plenty of posters in this thread who have had as many or more Sigs as you, and yes, some of their experiences differ from yours. So be it.

I couldn't care less if people don't care for a particular firearm, they just need to stop making blanket statements. Sure, I have only owned a handful (9) of SIGs, but I do get to see all of the main players and calibers at work/training, which a lot of people here do not. They take their sample of one or two and blow it out of proportion. Do I go into every Glock thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen them kaboom, break frame rails, malfunction with lights and get shipped with out of spec barrels?Nope. Do I go to every M&P thread and say that they "suck ass" because I have seen the magazine problems, rust, terrible triggers and one that the slide locked to the rear and wouldn't go back forward? Nope. I don't because I know, and see, that the majority of them work just fine.

I will switch to decaf when you can stay out of the XD threads and let the owners enjoy them.

Btw... I think Paul Hotaling summed it up best at another forum. It was in response to a thread asking "are there any reliable handguns available?' Paul works for Grey Group Training and happens to go to a lot of firearms classes with the top trainers in the industry. Here it is...

Oddly enough I go to allot of training classes and weapons malfunctions of any kind are rare. I personally think the Internet “The Sky Is Falling” on damn near every handgun known to man is getting completely out of hand. I just watched a Gen4 G19 run like a raped ape, multiple Sig’s w/o issues, etc. I see 1911’s of all price ranges run just fine in classes. Like I said, malfunctions of any kind are rare and when they do happen a quick lube usually fixes it. If you trust the internet these guns should have all exploded into pieces. It’s getting completely out of hand. Personally I blame allot of it on certain individuals wanting to be seen as experts.

IMO: Buy a service quality Glock, Beretta, Sig, Smith & Wesson, HK, etc and go shoot it.

Actually no, you do that in every thread where someone says something about Sig that you don't like to try and defend your brand by ensuring everyone that Sig isn't the only brand that has issues.

I'm flattered that you follow me around arfcom to think you know my posting habits

What the fuck do you even do in these threads besides troll?

Took you long enough to get here

LOL I can only fight the urge to stay away from a SIG quality thread for s o long.

Posted: 5/14/2011 10:38:17 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I have not owned one, A guy I worked with got a US made P220 and the machining marks on the underside of the slide were not as nice and smooth as my German P220, and there was a little play between the slide and frame.

It functioned fine with no failures, I just feel like the standards have dropped since Sig Sauer started making them domestically. Please understand I am not trashing the US made Sig's, just stating that the original German models seem to have more care taken in production.

Nothing of what you wrote is a "QC issue." Plus, you have zero experience with them other than with some guy that you worked with had one. So, basically you're regurgitating what you have read on the net. That's about par for the course for 98% of these threads.

So it did its job by functioning fine and had no failures, but you feel like standards have dropped in the Classic line because of "not as nice and smooth machining marks under the slide." That's exactly like the folks who say that Bushmasters are "just as good as" the Colts because their Bushy didn't have a scratch out of the box, and the Colt looked a little rough.

This is why people have to take what you read on the net with a grain of salt. You have ZERO experience with a product, but you have no problem typing out "The US made Sigs on the other hand, have had a large amount of QC issues. I would not own a domestically made Sig, If you want one find a German Sig."

And Marksmen14 wonders why I get bent out of shape....

Posted: 5/14/2011 2:33:40 PM EDT

[#25]

I'm actually starting to get a little tired of posting this, but I feel compelled.....

My usual statement on the subject copied from another post....

"And by the way, you may hear, or may have already heard, about all the QC issues with SIG these days. Truth is between my brother and myself, we've purchased seven new SIGs over the last two or three years...220, 226, 228, 229 (2), 238 (2), and ALL have been perfect out of the box. Great guns. Apparently some folks have had issues but we've been very pleased."

Hell, I don't even know anybody that has had issues with their SIG. Not saying there haven't been issues, just not even a fraction of what you would conclude if you believed all the "internet experts". Geez. Give it a rest.

Everybody buy a SIG (okay, a classic model anyway) and you'll love it!!

Posted: 5/14/2011 4:57:40 PM EDT

[#26]

Another thing to remember is that 15-20 years ago, people couldn't bitch about something at a click of a button. For every 1 person that kicks and screams about an item, there are a thousand that are very happy with their purchase.]Quoted:

Sorta reminds me of this Jeff Bezos (Amazon.com) quote:

"It used to be that if you had a bad consumer experience, you might tell six of your friends. Now, with the Internet, you're just as likely to tell 6,000 of your friends."

But that's all the more reason companies like SIG need to manage QC and their public handling of the same. We are now in the "reputation economy". Companies that don't understand that, and don't re-tune their business model accordingly, will suffer.

Posted: 5/14/2011 5:08:14 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I'm actually starting to get a little tired of posting this, but I feel compelled.....

My usual statement on the subject copied from another post....

"And by the way, you may hear, or may have already heard, about all the QC issues with SIG these days. Truth is between my brother and myself, we've purchased seven new SIGs over the last two or three years...220, 226, 228, 229 (2), 238 (2), and ALL have been perfect out of the box. Great guns. Apparently some folks have had issues but we've been very pleased."

Hell, I don't even know anybody that has had issues with their SIG. Not saying there haven't been issues, just not even a fraction of what you would conclude if you believed all the "internet experts". Geez. Give it a rest.

Everybody buy a SIG (okay, a classic model anyway) and you'll love it!!

Thats right, everybody buy a Sig. And when you have a slide stop notch that is barely functional, and looks like it was cut with a rat file by a jonesing crack addict, you'll love it!! You better love it, cause that shitty machine work is to Sig's standard. I didnt get that second hand off the internet, I got the Goddamn pictures and email from the horses mouth to prove it. Just see my first post in this thread. There is your PROOF of shitty Sig QC and its acceptability to Sig.

Posted: 5/14/2011 7:06:53 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have not owned one, A guy I worked with got a US made P220 and the machining marks on the underside of the slide were not as nice and smooth as my German P220, and there was a little play between the slide and frame.

It functioned fine with no failures, I just feel like the standards have dropped since Sig Sauer started making them domestically. Please understand I am not trashing the US made Sig's, just stating that the original German models seem to have more care taken in production.

Nothing of what you wrote is a "QC issue." Plus, you have zero experience with them other than with some guy that you worked with had one. So, basically you're regurgitating what you have read on the net. That's about par for the course for 98% of these threads.

So it did its job by functioning fine and had no failures, but you feel like standards have dropped in the Classic line because of "not as nice and smooth machining marks under the slide." That's exactly like the folks who say that Bushmasters are "just as good as" the Colts because their Bushy didn't have a scratch out of the box, and the Colt looked a little rough.

This is why people have to take what you read on the net with a grain of salt. You have ZERO experience with a product, but you have no problem typing out "The US made Sigs on the other hand, have had a large amount of QC issues. I would not own a domestically made Sig, If you want one find a German Sig."

And Marksmen14 wonders why I get bent out of shape....

Ok Internet commando,

So your saying if you pay a premium price, you should not get a premium product, void of shitty machining marks that look like it came out of a high school shop class?

So your saying that the OP should just be happy with his SIG, just because its a goddamn SIG and just ignore the fact that the thing looks like a cracked up monkey assembled it?

So your saying that just by seeing obious QC issues on a firearm that I am holding in my own two hands, it holds no watter just because I am not the owner?

And I also take it that you are too hung up on your brand cool-aid that you dont realize that the older German SIG were made with more care and pride in there product...

And even though other posters have stated that they would rather have a origional german SIG, you only felt the need to "enlighten" me with your endless wisdom

My point is that I would only purchase a German SIG and I could not possibly care less what you do with your paycheck's

Posted: 5/14/2011 8:03:33 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Ok Internet commando,

Really?

I also own German SIGs, and I can tell you this. They have shitty triggers, shitty finishes, less rust resistant, require more maintenance and are less durable compared to the Classic SIGs made today. Yes, that is a fact. The reason why they don't make the old folded slide models anymore is because .mil contracts requested the change to the stainless steel slides for he reasons that I mentioned. SIG Germany has also switched to the milled slides for the above reasons.

Also, if you actually shoot your weapons, you may want to rethink how many rounds that you put through your "older superior" SIGs, as replacement parts for them are not being made anymore and will dry up eventually.

Posted: 5/14/2011 8:15:05 PM EDT

[#30]

Ummm, aside from this little disagreement about Sigs,and him being tipsy on the crack laced Sig Kool-Aid, I generally like and agree with what S-1 has to say. Also, if I remember correctly, S-1 is not an "Internet Commando" he is the "Real Deal" as far as trigger pullers go.

Posted: 5/14/2011 8:42:20 PM EDT

[#31]

3 years ago we issued about 20 new Sigs in our district. About 1/2 were 226R's the other half were 229R's. The armory told us to make sure the officers field stripped them and lubed them before firing. When they did so, on 4 pistols the slides would not go back on the frame. We found out later the cause was an oversized barrel ramp. 3 of the pistols would fail to feed half of the rounds from every mag. We found out later the extractor hooks were rough and would not allow the case rim to slide underneath them. One pistol shot about 15 inches to the left at 25 yards. We didn't even try to adjust the sights. We have found that the firing pin positioning pin will crack and start walking out of the slide quite often. According to Sig this is due to dry firing. You need to use snap caps. And on the German made Sigs we saw broken extractors, broken trigger bar springs, cracked and broken locking inserts, and the slide would rust over if you left it in the Sahara for more than 20 minutes. All of these problems occurred with guns that were shot on average about 500 rounds or less (usually about 300) per year. I've been working with Sigs for 20 years and they have had their issues. I'm not saying other brands are better, but in my experience Sigs have never demonstrated the "to hell and back reliability" that they advertise.

Posted: 5/14/2011 8:45:40 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
3 years ago we issued about 20 new Sigs in our district. About 1/2 were 226R's the other half were 229R's. The armory told us to make sure the officers field stripped them and lubed them before firing. When they did so, on 4 pistols the slides would not go back on the frame. We found out later the cause was an oversized barrel ramp. 3 of the pistols would fail to feed half of the rounds from every mag. We found out later the extractor hooks were rough and would not allow the case rim to slide underneath them. One pistol shot about 15 inches to the left at 25 yards. We didn't even try to adjust the sights. We have found that the firing pin positioning pin will crack and start walking out of the slide quite often. According to Sig this is due to dry firing. You need to use snap caps. And on the German made Sigs we saw broken extractors, broken trigger bar springs, cracked and broken locking inserts, and the slide would rust over if you left it in the Sahara for more than 20 minutes. All of these problems occurred with guns that were shot on average about 500 rounds or less (usually about 300) per year. I've been working with Sigs for 20 years and they have had their issues. I'm not saying other brands are better, but in my experience Sigs have never demonstrated the "to hell and back reliability" that they advertise.

lol sounds like you got the last batch made at about 4:30 friday afternoon

Posted: 5/14/2011 8:56:58 PM EDT

[#33]

Yeah, they were definitely headed to the lake when they finished up that batch.

Posted: 5/14/2011 8:57:42 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ok Internet commando,

Really?

I also own German SIGs, and I can tell you this. They have shitty triggers, shitty finishes, less rust resistant, require more maintenance and are less durable compared to the Classic SIGs made today. Yes, that is a fact. The reason why they don't make the old folded slide models anymore is because .mil contracts requested the change to the stainless steel slides for he reasons that I mentioned. SIG Germany has also switched to the milled slides for the above reasons.

Also, if you actually shoot your weapons, you may want to rethink how many rounds that you put through your "older superior" SIGs, as replacement parts for them are not being made anymore and will dry up eventually.

I agree with you on the finish and the rust resistance, thats one of the reasons I sold my SIG's. After the countless thousands of rounds I put through my 226, and the constant holstering during 3-Gun and IDPA, left most of my slide bare metal. and the fact that they were not SS slides made them a quick rust magnet. And rather than having them re-finished I opted to sell them and get a brand new handgun.

If you would get off of the offensive you would realize the only point I have been trying to make here is that SIG does not put the effort to detail they used to. And I consider the shitty mill-work to be a QC issue considering that people are paying almost a grand for these handguns. If im forking over 1k for a handgun I expect more than that, If you dont, thats your choice.

I have had enough of this bickering, I have been here long enough I should have known better than to ever post in a SIG QC thread...

Merc Out

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:00:49 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Ummm, aside from this little disagreement about Sigs,and him being tipsy on the crack laced Sig Kool-Aid, I generally like and agree with what S-1 has to say. Also, if I remember correctly, S-1 is not an "Internet Commando" he is the "Real Deal" as far as trigger pullers go.

I'm not .mil if that's what you mean by "trigger puller." My job does require me to carry a gun(s), if that means anything.

My tolerance for the crack laced SIG kool-aid has evened out, and I need something stronger. After trying all of the other kool-aid flavors, the only crack laced kool-aid that can top my SIGs, is a flavor called H&K. I feel that an HK45C can give me the fix that I need, but I will have to hold off until Safariland makes an ALS holster for it.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:06:41 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Ummm, aside from this little disagreement about Sigs,and him being tipsy on the crack laced Sig Kool-Aid, I generally like and agree with what S-1 has to say. Also, if I remember correctly, S-1 is not an "Internet Commando" he is the "Real Deal" as far as trigger pullers go.

I'm not .mil if that's what you mean by "trigger puller." My job does require me to carry a gun(s), if that means anything.

My tolerance for the crack laced SIG kool-aid has evened out, and I need something stronger. After trying all of the other kool-aid flavors, the only crack laced kool-aid that can top my SIGs, is a flavor called H&K. I feel that an HK45C can give me the fix that I need, but I will have to hold off until Safariland makes an ALS holster for it.

pffftttt your such a SEAL fan boy.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:09:09 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
pffftttt your such a SEAL fan boy.

But isn't that the weapon that killed OBL?

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:13:41 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
pffftttt your such a SEAL fan boy.

But isn't that the weapon that killed OBL?

A HK with a 4 in it but no 5 I belive.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:23:02 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
pffftttt your such a SEAL fan boy.

But isn't that the weapon that killed OBL?

A HK with a 4 in it but no 5 I belive.

DAMMIT! Now I have to rethink things...

No seriously, the reason why I have been thinking of going to a .45 is that the "flying ashtrays" have proven to be very effective here in the past few years. It would be easy to get a P220 so that I can use my current holsters/gear, but I have had one before and for some reason I did not care for it. Glocks are a no go for me, and the M&P's are definitely at the bottom of my list. In my experience, the H&K's have been very reliable, and I like the "C" model more than the full size, so I may give one a try.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:23:12 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

The Gen 4 was designed to run with 124 Grain, 1200 FPS Nato ball and LEO +P rounds. I just bought one, droped some clp in it, loaded it up with Nato/+P ammo, and it ran like a damn top. I imagine if I were useing the weak dirty shit, I would have had a problem or two. For some this may be considered a failure, but im okay with it. I would much rather have a Glock that is designed and able to digest and operate on a steady diet of 9mm Nato/+P,and have to feed it quality 124 grain WInchester Nato Spec and full power Ball/hollowpoint, than one that is sprung low enough to run all the severly underpowered, light weight US/Russian bottom shelf branded product ammo that the ammo companies put out for the guy who will only buy the cheapest available. A gun sprung to that standard is gonna be beating itself to death if and when you decide to get serious and start useing Full power hot 9mm loaded to Europen/Nato Specs.

FUCK YOU SIG SAUER!

So you think that's ok? I run the cheap 115 gr factory ammo (no reloads) @ the range (Magtech, WWB, etc) w/ no problems at all out of my Gen 3 G19. When I practice w/ the good stuff (147 gr Ranger Ts) no problems there either. And going back and forth certainly won't cause the gun to "beat itself to death".

Why would I want to spend approx 73 cents a bullet for my SD/HD ammo all the time, when I can practice w/ the 115 gr stuff for around 14 cents a bullet

That's why I passed on the Gen 4, and am very glad I did! That double stacked recoil spring was originally designed for the .40 {duh}. I think Glock screwed up big time w/ that choice, which was supposed to make production cheaper and easier (the 9s and 40s would share a common recoil spring). Anyway, sorry for getting off topic.

I almost bought a used Sig 226 but went w/ the new Glock instead. I liked Sig from years ago but am disappointed in what they've been doing lately. For the record, that used Sig looked ok, but I wan't able to fire it. In the end though, I'm glad I went w/ the Glock - Gen 3.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:25:51 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
pffftttt your such a SEAL fan boy.

But isn't that the weapon that killed OBL?

A HK with a 4 in it but no 5 I belive.

DAMMIT! Now I have to rethink things...

No seriously, the reason why I have been thinking of going to a .45 is that the "flying ashtrays" have proven to be very effective here in the past few years. It would be easy to get a P220 so that I can use my current holsters/gear, but I have had one before and for some reason I did not care for it. Glocks are a no go for me, and the M&P's are definitely at the bottom of my list. In my experience, the H&K's have been very reliable, and I like the "C" model more than the full size, so I may give one a try.

I like my 220 alot but have you looked at the FN45? Those things are awesome but no doubt alot fatter then the HK45C.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:26:56 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Ummm, aside from this little disagreement about Sigs,and him being tipsy on the crack laced Sig Kool-Aid, I generally like and agree with what S-1 has to say. Also, if I remember correctly, S-1 is not an "Internet Commando" he is the "Real Deal" as far as trigger pullers go.

I'm not .mil if that's what you mean by "trigger puller." My job does require me to carry a gun(s), if that means anything.

My tolerance for the crack laced SIG kool-aid has evened out, and I need something stronger. After trying all of the other kool-aid flavors, the only crack laced kool-aid that can top my SIGs, is a flavor called H&K. I feel that an HK45C can give me the fix that I need, but I will have to hold off until Safariland makes an ALS holster for it.

Funny you should mention that. I picked up an HK USPC 40, and it is by far my current most favorite handgun. The weapon inspires a trait that is important in a weapon. When I draw and fire the weapon, it inspires confidence. I trust that the thing won't let me down if I need it. Sig used to do that for me, not so much now. It appears that out of the box confidence, for me, now lies with HK.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:35:24 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I like my 220 alot but have you looked at the FN45? Those things are awesome but no doubt alot fatter then the HK45C.

I would take a look at the FN, but they aren't on the "approved" list.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:36:00 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The Gen 4 was designed to run with 124 Grain, 1200 FPS Nato ball and LEO +P rounds. I just bought one, droped some clp in it, loaded it up with Nato/+P ammo, and it ran like a damn top. I imagine if I were useing the weak dirty shit, I would have had a problem or two. For some this may be considered a failure, but im okay with it. I would much rather have a Glock that is designed and able to digest and operate on a steady diet of 9mm Nato/+P,and have to feed it quality 124 grain WInchester Nato Spec and full power Ball/hollowpoint, than one that is sprung low enough to run all the severly underpowered, light weight US/Russian bottom shelf branded product ammo that the ammo companies put out for the guy who will only buy the cheapest available. A gun sprung to that standard is gonna be beating itself to death if and when you decide to get serious and start useing Full power hot 9mm loaded to Europen/Nato Specs.

FUCK YOU SIG SAUER!

So you think that's ok? I run the cheap 115 gr factory ammo (no reloads) @ the range (Magtech, WWB, etc) w/ no problems at all out of my Gen 3 G19. When I practice w/ the good stuff (147 gr Ranger Ts) no problems there either. And going back and forth certainly won't cause the gun to "beat itself to death".

Why would I want to spend approx 73 cents a bullet for my SD/HD ammo all the time, when I can practice w/ the 115 gr stuff for around 14 cents a bullet

That's why I passed on the Gen 4, and am very glad I did! That double stacked recoil spring was originally designed for the .40 {duh}. I think Glock screwed up big time w/ that choice, which was supposed to make production cheaper and easier (the 9s and 40s would share a common recoil spring). Anyway, sorry for getting off topic.

I almost bought a used Sig 226 but went w/ the new Glock instead. I liked Sig from years ago but am disappointed in what they've been doing lately. For the record, that used Sig looked ok, but I wan't able to fire it. In the end though, I'm glad I went w/ the Glock - Gen 3.

I suspect alot of people "Pass" on the Generation 4 Glock because they are heavily invested financially and emotionally in the Generation 3, and either can't afford to switch over, or have their nuts and their wallet controlled by a wife unit who will not allow it. So they talk down the newer updated design,and talk up the "superiorty" of their current emotional and financial investment, the Gen 3. That much easier than cutting loose of their emotional investment in an inanimate object, getting their nuts and wallets back, and actually buying/useing a Generation 4. 147 Grain is NOT my definition of the "good Stuff". Run a few hundred Speer +P 124 Gold Dot, or 500 rounds of NATO 9mm, then google "Glock Slide Peening", and get back with me.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:39:31 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I like my 220 alot but have you looked at the FN45? Those things are awesome but no doubt alot fatter then the HK45C.

I would take a look at the FN, but they aren't on the "approved" list.

No reason not to get the HK then. JW_777 will be mailing you your HK fan club membership form any day now

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:46:45 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Funny you should mention that. I picked up an HK USPC 40, and it is by far my current most favorite handgun. The weapon inspires a trait that is important in a weapon. When I draw and fire the weapon, it inspires confidence. I trust that the thing won't let me down if I need it. Sig used to do that for me, not so much now. It appears that out of the box confidence, for me, now lies with HK.

Yeah, the H&K's that I've shot and been around have been very reliable. The USP .45's are very popular here among the "shooters." I like them, but they are a little too big for my hands.

I've told you before, and it's only my opinion, but I think that you shouldn't let a known turd get you down about a brand. The CS may have sucked, but a talk with their manager usually fixes the problems.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:48:41 PM EDT

[#47]

I've had my USP 9mms before I had my SIGs

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:53:21 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
JW_777 will be mailing you your HK fan club membership form any day now

LOL!

I don't think I will be getting the card, it won't have the "Todd Green" LEM trigger installed. I think that's a pre-req to be a member of their P30/HK club.

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:54:34 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The Gen 4 was designed to run with 124 Grain, 1200 FPS Nato ball and LEO +P rounds. I just bought one, droped some clp in it, loaded it up with Nato/+P ammo, and it ran like a damn top. I imagine if I were useing the weak dirty shit, I would have had a problem or two. For some this may be considered a failure, but im okay with it. I would much rather have a Glock that is designed and able to digest and operate on a steady diet of 9mm Nato/+P,and have to feed it quality 124 grain WInchester Nato Spec and full power Ball/hollowpoint, than one that is sprung low enough to run all the severly underpowered, light weight US/Russian bottom shelf branded product ammo that the ammo companies put out for the guy who will only buy the cheapest available. A gun sprung to that standard is gonna be beating itself to death if and when you decide to get serious and start useing Full power hot 9mm loaded to Europen/Nato Specs.

FUCK YOU SIG SAUER!

So you think that's ok? I run the cheap 115 gr factory ammo (no reloads) @ the range (Magtech, WWB, etc) w/ no problems at all out of my Gen 3 G19. When I practice w/ the good stuff (147 gr Ranger Ts) no problems there either. And going back and forth certainly won't cause the gun to "beat itself to death".

Why would I want to spend approx 73 cents a bullet for my SD/HD ammo all the time, when I can practice w/ the 115 gr stuff for around 14 cents a bullet

That's why I passed on the Gen 4, and am very glad I did! That double stacked recoil spring was originally designed for the .40 {duh}. I think Glock screwed up big time w/ that choice, which was supposed to make production cheaper and easier (the 9s and 40s would share a common recoil spring). Anyway, sorry for getting off topic.

I almost bought a used Sig 226 but went w/ the new Glock instead. I liked Sig from years ago but am disappointed in what they've been doing lately. For the record, that used Sig looked ok, but I wan't able to fire it. In the end though, I'm glad I went w/ the Glock - Gen 3.

I suspect alot of people "Pass" on the Generation 4 Glock because they are heavily invested financially and emotionally in the Generation 3, and either can't afford to switch over, or have their nuts and their wallet controlled by a wife unit who will not allow it. So they talk down the newer updated design,and talk up the "superiorty" of their current emotional and financial investment, the Gen 3. That much easier than cutting loose of their emotional investment in an inanimate object, getting their nuts and wallets back, and actually buying/useing a Generation 4. 147 Grain is NOT my definition of the "good Stuff". Run a few hundred Speer +P 124 Gold Dot, or 500 rounds of NATO 9mm, then google "Glock Slide Peening", and get back with me.

For the record, the gen 4 was only $40 more. Not a big deal for me. So price played no part in my decision making. Only concern was, would the relaibilty be there w/ the lighter 115 gr stuff I like to shoot @ the range.

What's wrong w/ the Ranger T in 147 gr? Not being sarcastic but genuinely interested. I thought they were considered to be just as good as the Speer Gold Dots for SD/HD? Is this not true? Thanks

Posted: 5/14/2011 9:55:40 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
I've had my USP 9mms before I had my SIGs

Oh, the SIGs aren't going anywhere, and I won't get the HK unless Safariland gets off of their ass and makes the holster that I want.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sig Quality (Page 2 of 3)

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