Site Notices
8/22/2014 4:19:20 PM
ARCHIVED ARCHIVED
  Previous Page
Page:  / 6
Author
Message
Coy_Greer
Member
Military
Offline
Posts: 1269
Feedback: 100% (46)
Posted: 5/5/2011 6:44:44 PM
[Last Edit: 5/5/2011 7:25:13 PM by Coy_Greer]
I didn't want to believe that Sigs quality was as bad as everyone had said. Then I bought a Sig P250. I sent it back because the hammer leaned to the left and the slide stop notched looked like a guy with Parkinsons carved it out with a dull dremmel. Sig sent me back a new sig P250. With the same Slide. Only this time they tried to grind the slide stop notch even(They Didn't) and got the same guy with parkinsons disease to try to ratfile the notch straight. Here are a few pics of the affected area:




Keep in mind that this is AFTER they "Fixed" the pistol. The slide stop barely engaged in that clusterfuck of tool chatter and dremmel sanding. A mild shake would make the slide drop. I emailed these pics and 8 more shots to Sig, and asked them to please replace the slide with one that is made correctly. here was their reply:

I did get word back from the gunsmiths and they explained that they did not see anything that was out of specs. They furthermore explained that the slide stop is not supposed to sit all the way up in the notch. When it does, it becomes very difficult to disengage and release the slide. I even then went to my Boss, Scott Therrien, and he looked at the photos. At this point it has been determined by all of them that it is within specs for look, fit, and finish. If you have any other questions please feel free to let me know.

And here is my reply back:
eh, Im just gonna dump the gun, cut my losses and move on to another manufacturer. I really didnt want to believe all the hype about Sigs Quality being in the Toilet. I certainly believe it now. Thanks

V/R
Coy R. Greer

So folks, when your looking at that next Sig Sauer, think about these pictures and the quality of Sigs machine work on a simple right angle, and remember, this is made to Sigs standard.
In closing I would just like to add......

FUCK YOU SIG SAUER!

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Lawyers are like firetrucks. No one ever thinks about them until they need one, and when they do need one, they want a really good one. -Clint Smith
ED_P
Member
Offline
Posts: 8986
Feedback: 100% (27)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 6:54:53 PM
I like my older model SIG 229. A great gun.

I brought a SIG 228 recently (they had a few batches appear in the US market with a rail in the last two years). I was disappointed how quickly the slide and frame were beating each other up and leaving gouges in the frame. I still own it, but it's a disappointment in comparison. Would not buy another SIG again.

Marksman14
Member
Offline
Posts: 15135
Feedback: 100% (143)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 7:16:56 PM
Can't be.

This is all internet myth.
Spartan16
Offline
Posts: 574
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 7:19:38 PM
I thought it was well known the 250 was a POS and should be avoided...?

Anyway, still sucks. Guess Sig can't polish a turd.
Hedonist
Keep shooting, my friends...
Offline
Posts: 18143
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 7:34:12 PM
Sig's name has been ruined - the German's made good stuff, but stay away from non-German Sigs is my take.

S-1
Member
Offline
Posts: 2901
Feedback: 100% (9)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 7:40:22 PM
The P250 is a known POS.

The only SIGs that I own are the Classic series, and all have been great, US or German made.
"If one was to choose their weapon based solely on internet bitching, they would end up carrying a rape whistle." - GLOCKREAPER
colklink
Member
Offline
Posts: 20095
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 7:49:34 PM
Thats a damn shame. Sig used to be among the top notch firearms makers around at any price. Fuck
If obama is the answer, the question must be really stupid to begin with.

Taft
Coy_Greer
Member
Military
Offline
Posts: 1270
Feedback: 100% (46)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 8:02:20 PM
Originally Posted By colklink:
Thats a damn shame. Sig used to be among the top notch firearms makers around at any price. Fuck


I concur. My 239 from 2002 is my constant companion. The machining looks like a work of art. It is flawless, and works flawlessly as well. If Hans the machininst would have turned some shit like this out back then, they would have flogged his ass out back behind the shop. Frankly, the fact that this gun happens to be a P250 dosen't excuse this. The P250 design is known shit, however that should not affect the basic machine work, especially a cut as simple as this. If this slide stop notch is to their standard on this pistol, you can bet your ass this is their standard for slide stop notches across the the entire product line.

Lawyers are like firetrucks. No one ever thinks about them until they need one, and when they do need one, they want a really good one. -Clint Smith
BillyDoubleU
Killing is bedong
Military
Offline
Posts: 2457
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 8:09:16 PM
Originally Posted By Spartan16:
I thought it was well known the 250 was a POS and should be avoided...?

Anyway, still sucks. Guess Sig can't polish a turd.


Yep, stick with the classics. P220-228/9.
<If you can see the big picture then you are not focusing on your front sight>

<Superior gear will not make up for lack of skill or training>
Hedonist
Keep shooting, my friends...
Offline
Posts: 18145
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 8:16:56 PM
I have a P225 that I purchased before civilians were able to easily do so - It's a wonderful, reliable gun I used to shoot stages with for fun.

The P250 my youngest son picked out turned into a disaster - that's not what your son's first handgun should be - ended being sold. It should have been cherished for his lifetime. I sunk a lot of money into that as it was new and endorsed by industry awards or such. Bought the "short" trigger conversion, extra mags - because at that point Sig thought they had a winner and only supplied a single mag, night sights, whatnot. What a piece of shit.

I still love my P225 though - but it just sits in the safe these days, replaced by special purpose handguns like PPS for carry and M&P for home.

I made the mistake of buying a 522, and Sig screwed that by not supplying sights, forcing people to buy rails and iron sights - or mounting optics.

I'm done with Sig. I wish they are what they used to be 10 years ago - but I think they were done in by quality short cuts and other bad decisions.

America-first
Member
Offline
Posts: 21324
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 10:25:35 PM
[Last Edit: 5/5/2011 10:35:23 PM by America-first]
IMO, these days, the quality of the product turned out by any firearms manufacturer is only as good as the last gun you bought from them.

In light of the popularity of Internet forums; it's stupid for a company who has shipped a customer a defective gun to resist making it right, I just can't understand why they wouldn't give you another slide since you were already inconvenienced by them shipping a defective gun in the first instance.

SIG's customer service is supposed to be it's strong suit but I don't believe they did right by you or their own interests by chintzing on making the gun right.

The best customer service is that which you never need and too many manufacturers are making their customers test pilots for their products.

"But they have excellent customer service and they will make it right" isn't an acceptable substitute for not letting crap leave the factory in the first place.

I just bought a beautiful looking pistol from another manufacturer and it's been a total and complete jammomatic and I have to send it back to the factory.

Calling it a jammomatic is being kind; I hope they fix it properly.

But it should never have been shipped in the first place.

It isn't only SIG that has quality issues, it's most of them; but too many people refuse to admit that their new firearm hasn't passed muster and instead tell everyone that it's never had any issues.

These days the manufacturers find it cheaper to ship crap and have you send it back, rather than to ensure things are as they should be in the first place.

Some have developed good reputations for "customer service" but as I said, the best customer service involves shipping a properly made, reliable
product in the first instance.

Fixing your new gun after you have to send it back is, IMO, a damned poor second.

And refusing to do it right is a disgrace as well as a stupid business decision.

I'm going to start a thread regarding the many problems I've been having with my new E Series 1911 Tactical and how well S&W performs the necessary repairs.

They already sent me a pre paid label, I'm sending it back next week when I have the time to schedule a Fedex pickup at my home.

But IMO, the pistol, for which I paid $ 1119.00 plus sales tax, shouldn't have been craptastic in the first place.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
S-1
Member
Offline
Posts: 2902
Feedback: 100% (9)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 10:53:57 PM
Originally Posted By America-first:
SNIP


Good post.

I can post a link to a 10+ page thread on another forum where people are complaining about the latest flavor of the month (coughm&pcough). Everything from accuracy problems, magazine issues to broken parts with very few rounds (less than 2k), and one former HSLD Tier 1 instructor calling them "shit."

Every company puts out turds, and if you buy a known turd, you will probably have a higher percentage of getting one.

"If one was to choose their weapon based solely on internet bitching, they would end up carrying a rape whistle." - GLOCKREAPER
BillyDoubleU
Killing is bedong
Military
Offline
Posts: 2464
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 11:18:38 PM
My brother just got a brand new P229, straight stock, nothing fancy. We'll shoot it on Sunday. I am wondering how it will do? I checked it out and nothing popped out at me and everything felt tight and crisp. Though I will say, when it is empty I do not like the way it balances. Buddy told me the 228's were balanced much better then the new 229's and I hadn't held one so I took him at his word. Now I know what've was talking about.

I hope I just keep getting lucky with any new gun I buy. But I'd never buy a 250 though...
<If you can see the big picture then you are not focusing on your front sight>

<Superior gear will not make up for lack of skill or training>
Coy_Greer
Member
Military
Offline
Posts: 1272
Feedback: 100% (46)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/5/2011 11:56:37 PM
[Last Edit: 5/5/2011 11:59:26 PM by Coy_Greer]
Originally Posted By S-1:
Originally Posted By America-first:
SNIP


Good post.

I can post a link to a 10+ page thread on another forum where people are complaining about the latest flavor of the month (coughm&pcough). Everything from accuracy problems, magazine issues to broken parts with very few rounds (less than 2k), and one former HSLD Tier 1 instructor calling them "shit."

Every company puts out turds, and if you buy a known turd, you will probably have a higher percentage of getting one.



Could you IM me the link to that thread? I despise the M&P and would like to read what problems others are now having and validating with the gun. I gave it three chances, and all 3 had issues. Every one of them had machining artifacts left on the slide that essentially formed small chisels. When fired, these chisels ate the sides of the dust cover and then buried themselves into the frame at the end of the slides rearward movement. Every single pistol I look at has these artifacts, and the subsequent dust cover being eaten away and the divets where the chiseled artifacts are slamming into the frame. I had 1 come to me rusted because of a piss poor Melonite application (when done wrong, melonite promotes rust, since it is salt based), 1 dropped mags randomly, the triggers all sucked hard ass. S&W is basically living up to their previous reputation when it comes to auto pistols, and apparently people are catching on and its starting to show.

Lawyers are like firetrucks. No one ever thinks about them until they need one, and when they do need one, they want a really good one. -Clint Smith
DEGOLDCUP
Offline
Posts: 140
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 3:56:55 AM
Current Sig manufactured and new offerings sucks. The current company is making money off of old 226/229 reputation and the Sig brand. I will never buy another Sig! Over priced for what you pay.
S-1
Member
Offline
Posts: 2907
Feedback: 100% (9)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 4:55:49 AM
Originally Posted By DEGOLDCUP:
Current Sig manufactured and new offerings sucks. The current company is making money off of old 226/229 reputation and the Sig brand. I will never buy another Sig! Over priced for what you pay.


And how much experience do you have with them? New vs. old?
"If one was to choose their weapon based solely on internet bitching, they would end up carrying a rape whistle." - GLOCKREAPER
America-first
Member
Offline
Posts: 21327
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 7:20:47 AM
[Last Edit: 5/6/2011 7:25:50 AM by America-first]
SIG is taking it on the chin more than other manufacturers on internet forums because IMO they fell to the market's current standard from a position of loftier quality than the others, but IMO, from time to time, in fact too often, they all ship crap these days.

The guys in my club all have various SIGs and they have been exemplary, as has the P220 Carry Equinox I picked up last August; I'm extremely satisfied with it and it has run 2000 absolutely flawless rounds with terrific accuracy.

I regret not choosing to buy the SIG Platinum Elite 1911 rather than the S&W E tactical rail E series I chose instead, I could have had it for over $300 cheaper and it sure as hell had to be better.

The guys in my club who own the SIG 1911s love them and for good reason.

I've got a pair of M&Ps that have gone through almost 20,000 rounds between them without a stoppage of any sort and although they have been my carry guns for almost 4 years, their finish appears virtually NIB.

I'm beginning to think that regardless of the brand, too much crap is being purposely allowed to leave the factory with the understanding that
"customer service" after the fact has replaced quality control at the factory.

The "Don't worry, they'll take care of you" fanboy nonsense I hear far too often these days isn't all that comforting when you figure the cost of buying a new gun, especially a premium priced gun from any of the manufacturers.

I just don't believe that it is a SIG only problem, it's industry wide.

We can help ourselves by not perpetuating Internet memes and being more honest about our experiences both good and bad.

The fanboys shit is hurting us all, as well as those that complain about a product incessantly simply because they read something on the Internet.

No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
XMM
Member
Offline
Posts: 7230
Feedback: 100% (32)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 9:53:29 AM
Originally Posted By Spartan16:
I thought it was well known the 250 was a POS and should be avoided...?

Anyway, still sucks. Guess Sig can't polish a turd.


No shit, does nobody research a gun before buying?

The hamster died from blunt force trauma, liver damage and a brain hemorrhage, he said.

America-first
Member
Offline
Posts: 21329
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 10:40:11 AM
Originally Posted By XMM:
Originally Posted By Spartan16:
I thought it was well known the 250 was a POS and should be avoided...?

Anyway, still sucks. Guess Sig can't polish a turd.


No shit, does nobody research a gun before buying?



I did plenty of research and still got a jammomatic from S&W for my troubles.

As for the 250, either SIG gets it right the first time, or at the very least fixes it for the customer who gets stuck with a lemon; or pulls it from the market and hands out refunds.

It's got their name on it; they need to make it right.

Too much Internet research these days consists of either fanboy bullshit or unwarranted complaints from people who merely read this or that on the internet anyway and are just embellishing it and passing it on as factual.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

AN EMPTY BARREL ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE.
XMM
Member
Offline
Posts: 7231
Feedback: 100% (32)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 11:43:24 AM
Originally Posted By Coy_Greer:
Originally Posted By S-1:
Originally Posted By America-first:
SNIP


Good post.

I can post a link to a 10+ page thread on another forum where people are complaining about the latest flavor of the month (coughm&pcough). Everything from accuracy problems, magazine issues to broken parts with very few rounds (less than 2k), and one former HSLD Tier 1 instructor calling them "shit."

Every company puts out turds, and if you buy a known turd, you will probably have a higher percentage of getting one.



Could you IM me the link to that thread? I despise the M&P and would like to read what problems others are now having and validating with the gun. I gave it three chances, and all 3 had issues. Every one of them had machining artifacts left on the slide that essentially formed small chisels. When fired, these chisels ate the sides of the dust cover and then buried themselves into the frame at the end of the slides rearward movement. Every single pistol I look at has these artifacts, and the subsequent dust cover being eaten away and the divets where the chiseled artifacts are slamming into the frame. I had 1 come to me rusted because of a piss poor Melonite application (when done wrong, melonite promotes rust, since it is salt based), 1 dropped mags randomly, the triggers all sucked hard ass. S&W is basically living up to their previous reputation when it comes to auto pistols, and apparently people are catching on and its starting to show.



You despise the S&W M&P - a series that has had overall excellent reviews - yet you bought.......a SIG P250. I seeeeeee.........

The hamster died from blunt force trauma, liver damage and a brain hemorrhage, he said.

parabellum_9x19
Member
Offline
Posts: 1260
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 11:48:03 AM
OP: Did the gun run correctly?

I see the problem you described, but you never stated if the gun ran right or not.
"What's done in the dark, will be brought to the light.
Tell em that God's gonna cut you down."
~Johnny Cash
XMM
Member
Offline
Posts: 7232
Feedback: 100% (32)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 11:59:01 AM
Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:
OP: Did the gun run correctly?

I see the problem you described, but you never stated if the gun ran right or not.


Yes, he did. He said his gun ran/runs fine.

The hamster died from blunt force trauma, liver damage and a brain hemorrhage, he said.

parabellum_9x19
Member
Offline
Posts: 1264
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 12:03:01 PM

Originally Posted By XMM:
Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:
OP: Did the gun run correctly?

I see the problem you described, but you never stated if the gun ran right or not.


Yes, he did. He said his gun ran/runs fine.


I just re-read every post of the OP and I still can't see where he stated that the gun ran correctly?

I still haven't had coffee, maybe I have a reading comprehension issue this morning.



"What's done in the dark, will be brought to the light.
Tell em that God's gonna cut you down."
~Johnny Cash
Coy_Greer
Member
Military
Offline
Posts: 1274
Feedback: 100% (46)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 2:13:03 PM
[Last Edit: 5/6/2011 2:53:28 PM by Coy_Greer]
Originally Posted By XMM:
Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:
OP: Did the gun run correctly?

I see the problem you described, but you never stated if the gun ran right or not.


Yes, he did. He said his gun ran/runs fine.



Umm, damn guy, did you even read the thread. Apparently you dont seeeeeee...as well as you fuckin think you do. With your apparent level of reading comprehension, Im gonna guess the screw eyed down syndrom face was you trying to seeeeeee...what was and was not said by me. I never said 1 fucking word about running the gun. And I doubt it would "run fine" when I can barely shake the gun and get the slide to release.Here is a hint. Before you speak for me, you should probably read and know what I did and didnt say in the first place.

Parabellum- This obviously means that YOUR comprehension is not the comprehension that is the problem here. Thanks for actually reading what I said in the first place.

ETA: I did dump the piece of shit yesterday, and picked up a New Gen4 Glock 19. Took it to the range, ran 250 rounds of Speer +P 124 Grain Gold Dot and 100 rounds of Winchester Q4318 NATO through it. There were absolutly no issues or malfunctions. All rounds fed, fired, extracted, and ejected fine, and none of them hit me in the head. The grip was perfect for me. This particular Gen 4 worked perfectly with full power service ammunition, which I expected it would. Overall I like the Gen 4 better than the Gen3, and this particular example is definetly a keeper. In case anyone is wondering, the manufacture date was January 25, gun had 04 spring installed from the factory, serial number range series is RATXXX.

Lawyers are like firetrucks. No one ever thinks about them until they need one, and when they do need one, they want a really good one. -Clint Smith
parabellum_9x19
Member
Offline
Posts: 1286
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 2:48:20 PM

Originally Posted By Coy_Greer:
Originally Posted By XMM:
Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:
OP: Did the gun run correctly?

I see the problem you described, but you never stated if the gun ran right or not.


Yes, he did. He said his gun ran/runs fine.



Umm, damn guy, did you even read the thread. Apparently you dont seeeeeee...as well as you fuckin think you do. With your apparent level of reading comprehension, Im gonna guess the screw eyed down syndrom face was you trying to seeeeeee...what was and was not said by me. I never said 1 fucking word about running the gun. And I doubt it would "run fine" when I can barely shake the gun and get the slide to release.Here is a hint. Before you speak for me, you should probably read and know what I did and didnt say in the first place.

Parabellum- This obviously means that YOUR comprehension is not the comprehension that is the problem here. Thanks for actually reading what I said in the first place.


Ah, ok that makes sense...it would SUCK to be in the middle of a mag change and have the slide release before the mag was fully seated.

I have a SigPro SP2340 with a swiss frame, and a 2010 built Sig556 that is also absolutely perfect....It really saddens me to see so many people have problems with Sig these days.

God I can remember back in 04, if you asked "What about the Sig XXX" people would respond with an instant "Its a Sig, buy it you idiot", but now it seems that Sig is like Ruger and many other brands, where its a bit of a gamble to see if you are going to get one that is up to spec, or one that has problems.


"What's done in the dark, will be brought to the light.
Tell em that God's gonna cut you down."
~Johnny Cash
XMM
Member
Offline
Posts: 7241
Feedback: 100% (32)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/6/2011 3:01:14 PM
Originally Posted By Coy_Greer:
Originally Posted By XMM:
Originally Posted By parabellum_9x19:
OP: Did the gun run correctly?

I see the problem you described, but you never stated if the gun ran right or not.


Yes, he did. He said his gun ran/runs fine.



Umm, damn guy, did you even read the thread. Apparently you dont seeeeeee...as well as you fuckin think you do. With your apparent level of reading comprehension, Im gonna guess the screw eyed down syndrom face was you trying to seeeeeee...what was and was not said by me. I never said 1 fucking word about running the gun. And I doubt it would "run fine" when I can barely shake the gun and get the slide to release.Here is a hint. Before you speak for me, you should probably read and know what I did and didnt say in the first place.

Parabellum- This obviously means that YOUR comprehension is not the comprehension that is the problem here. Thanks for actually reading what I said in the first place.

ETA: I did dump the piece of shit yesterday, and picked up a New Gen4 Glock 19. Took it to the range, ran 250 rounds of Speer +P 124 Grain Gold Dot and 100 rounds of Winchester Q4318 NATO through it. There were absolutly no issues or malfunctions. All rounds fed, fired, extracted, and ejected fine, and none of them hit me in the head. The grip was perfect for me. This particular Gen 4 worked perfectly with full power service ammunition, which I expected it would. Overall I like the Gen 4 better than the Gen3, and this particular example is definetly a keeper. In case anyone is wondering, the manufacture date was January 25, gun had 04 spring installed from the factory, serial number range series is RATXXX.



I just reread the posts. I missed that it was your 239 that you said ran flawlessly. Apologies for that.

But wow, man, you need to calm down. You're gonna die young with your attitude. No excuse for that sort of short fuse.

The hamster died from blunt force trauma, liver damage and a brain hemorrhage, he said.

  Previous Page
Page:  / 6
ARCHIVED ARCHIVED