For those of you who have an interest in the FEG Hi Power and Hi Power style pistols, I spent most of the winter writing a definitive article  about the FEG and Argentine Hi Powers. You'll find them on a blog a friend and I started at http://feghp.blogspot.com/. It starts out with a fairly short article on the Argie FM 90's and if you'll scroll down to the article entitled "Decoding the FEG Hi Power" you'll find I basically wrote a book on them. As a Word document it was 16 pages long and has 23 photos. Be ready for a long read if you go there. I originally started work on it as a post for internet gun forums like AR 15.com, but it grew so long and had so many photos I just couldn't make it work as such and had to go to a blog format. Hope you enjoy it and I hope I'm not violating any rules by posting this here.

And yes, I actually own a REAL Browning Hi-Power....a 1979 Sport Model with beer can sights.

MilMatch

Thanks, I'll check this out tomorrow!

I'm interested in a new Hi-Power variant to go along with my Nazi proofed Browning.

tag for later reading and comment



(I have Inglis, FN, and FEG Hi-Powers)

Can somebody hot-link it as I am intersted in buying an FEG hi-power. Oh,I'm using my phone right now(no cut and paste).

Sure, here it is http://feghp.blogspot.com/

Thanks Prof!! I'll read it tomorrow.

I am very interested in your and/or friends experience with these different pistols as to feeding reliability with ammo other then FMJ.
In other words, what can you bet your life on. I'm not saying FMJ won't do the job, but would seriously rather hav a Cor-bon 115 JHP at work.

WOW...great info. Thanks!

Sure Shadiwick,

Most of the single-action FEG Hi Power semiautomatic pistols ever built are basically reverse engineered pre-Mark II FN/Browning Hi Powers (allbeit some with FEG's own in-house slide stop setup) and are equipped with the "humped" feed ramp also seen in those earlier FN/Browning guns. These early "humped" feed ramps were designed to feed round nosed full metal jacketed ammunition, not the more blunt nosed jacketed hollow points. There's much more to it than this, but this will get us started on answering your question about feeding JHP ammo.

There are those who have gunsmiths "de-hump," or straighten out these ramps to achieve feeding reliability with JHP ammo, and I have had this done on a FEG PJK-9HP and also on my Charles Daly Hi Power, which is also a FEG . There has been quite a lot written on the gun forums about the problem of feeding JHP loads in guns having the "humped" ramps being solved by simply using MecGar magazines, which are said to hold the top round at a slightly higher angle to the feed ramp so they will feed JHP's reliably. I have tried this fix also.

The pistols I had the ramps "de-humped" in fed JHP's flawlessly, and, so far, my early-90's KBI PJK-9HP with the factory-stock "humped" ramp and MecGar 13 and 15 round magazines have reliably fed several magazines of Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P JHP's, Fiocchi Extrema 115 grain and 124 grain JHP's, and the bulk Remington 115 grain JHP (L9mm1B), stagger loaded with each other and stagger loaded with each other and some other FMJ loads to try and force a hiccup, which the gun did not do. It fed them all without a hitch. But then this test did not involve a vast volume of test ammunition - just a few magazines full.

According to all the reading I have done on the subject, some of these "humped" feed ramps will feed JHP loads OK, others will feed this JHP but not that one, while still others won't feed anything reliably but round nosed FMJ loads. It tends to be a very iffy subject and each gun can be relied on to be a total individual. I know this isn't the answer you wanted, but after all is said and done, the only true test of whether these feed ramps will feed a particular JHP bullet is by actual test in your gun using your magazines and the ammo you wish to use.  If using a gun with a "humped" feed ramp for defensive purposes, I would begin with an assumption that it will NOT reliably feed jacketed hollow points and go from there.  I would personally not assume that any particular fix will enable reliable feeding of JHP ammo without testing it myself, but then I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that.

Just one final note.....in its closing years of gunmaking, the FEG conglomerate changed its Hi Power style pistols over completely to a Smith and Wesson system of barrel/slide/frame interaction, completely abandoning the Colt/Browning system. This is explained thoroughly in the blog I referred you to. I'd say more, but it took me 16 pages of text to explain it the first time  

I hope I've answered your question nonetheless.  Best wishes.

Jer

P.S.You will find excellent discussions and reviews on this subject written by a real master at http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/HiPowerComments.html

Wow! Thanks for you answer, I believe your correct on all points.

I read a long time ago that if you had feed problems with JHP's to give the Remington 124gr JHP+P a try since it's shape and profile closely remembles FMJ ball.

When you said, that FEG went to a S&W style barrel system, are you saying that it tended to handle JHP's pretty well compared to the "humped," Browning bbl?

No, I'm not saying that. I have never seen any evidence that the Smith and Wesson operating system improved reliability with JHP ammo. I believe it was done to reduce costs since the Smith and Wesson system was obviously easier to manufacture. I have never seen a report on how well these newer S&W systems feed JHP's or didn't feed them, so once again you would need to do some personal testing.

Another consideration in using JHP ammo in the FN/Browning Hi Powers and their clones is that prolonged or high volume use of high pressure ammo tends to damage them or accelerate wear appreciably unless one installs the Wolff 18.5 recoil spring and extra power firing pin rebound spring, and this is difficult and hazardous to install in the FEG pistols having the S&W style operating systems - a problem I devoted a lengthy section to in my blog.

The basic FN/Browning Hi Power platform, regardless of operating system or manufacturer, is small for a 9mm, lightweight, and less than beefy, so using +P ammo in any of them in quantity brings about an entirely different set of problems. This is all covered in the link I gave you to Mr. Camp's work on the subject.

While lots of reports exist on the performance of the FN/Browning Hi Power pistols with +P ammo, I have never seen a report concerning the performance of the FEG pistols when using high pressure ammo in quantity, nor have I ever seen an authoritative comparison of the steels used in the FN/Browning guns compared to the steels used in the FEG pistols. The FN/Browning guns switched to a stronger cast frame a few years ago, but FEG did not follow suit, so I'm sure the newer cast frames would be stronger than the FEG frames, but I can't be sure how the FEG stacks up against an older FN/Browning gun with the conventional forged frame.

As for your Remington load, Speer makes its Gold Dot 124 grain JHP round in a standard pressure load (not +p), and it too has a bullet shape somewhat similar to a round nose bullet. It is the standard load of the New York City Transit Police so it has to have something going for it. It's pricey as heck, but if you get to the point of testing JHP ammo in these guns, you might give it a try too.

Hope some of this helps.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your time and consideration!

I did not know that about the Gold Dot, it would be interesting to find out about the "on the street," performance of this round.

You're welcome sir. If the Gold Dot standard pressure load is in use by the NYC transit police I'd bet you could do a google search and find some actual police experiences with it.  It's +P version uses the same bullet and is the standard load of the NYPD. I'm also told that the Remington Golden Sabre is now available in a standard pressure, non-+P load, and I'm pretty sure it has somewhat of a round nose bullet as well. I have a box of it somewhere and if I can dig it out I'll let you know. Glad to help. Us East Tennesseans have to help our North Carolina neighbors all we can - otherwise you guys will cut off our supply of Sourwood Honey. [:D

Jer

I don't know if you ever got a definitive answer on what system the PJK-9HP uses, but mine uses the BHP setup and not the S&W system.

Thank you very much. The fact that your FP9 (factory model number) has the in-house FEG slide stop system is very interesting. Now I will have to keep my ears open to determine if this model was ever marketed as the PJK 9HP with the standard Browning slide stop. The plot is always thickening with these guns. Thanks again.

MM

Thank you sir for such an excellent and well written article. The conflicting bits & pieces of info out there on the internet has been mind boggling about these pistols, and now I feel like I am much more informed. In viewing online & handling various examples of these I have noticed the many differences and was always confused as to whether they were even made by the same firm or farmed out. I currently own a Portugal assembled Mark III, but want to acquire a Hungarian pistol. Now I know what to look for. Again, excellent article, you certainly have done your homework!

Thank you for your kind comments, Mr. Duck. After all the fooling around I've done with these guns I've reached a conclusion that FEG operated like the American pistol companies of the late 1800's - they would build you anything they offered with any features you wanted as long as you bought enough of them. This is the only explanation I can offer as to the multitude of variations in features that are undistinguished by model number variations, etc.....that and a suspicion that they sometimes used any parts they had in stock just in the name of economy. I've actually identified four different models of KBI's PJK-9HP and three of TGI's P9M. All in all though, I think they built a very good pistol.

MM

My FEG PJK-9HP shoots HP. In fact, 115gr hollow-points is all I've ever loaded it with. It is completely original (I bought it new) and has the 'humped feed ramp. One major thing that has really confused the issue over the years was KBI's (the principle importer) habit of indiscriminately naming models after family members' initials (PJK, GKK, etc.) and having FEG so roll-mark the guns during manufacture. Then, you also have most every FEG seller calling the double-action FEGs 'Hi-Powers'. These are the P9R, GKK92, P9RK and GKK-92C, and they are not Hi-Powers in any way. Good pistols, though, based on the S&W Model 59 series. I term the FEG pistols in the same category as the FEG AK-style rifles - excellent military quality in materials, fit and finish. Yes, the Browning Hi-Power is better in fit and finish, but the FEGs certainly perform in keeping with the military/police manufacturing history of FEG - now defunct, although somebody in Hungary is still supplying AK parts and receivers, such as the FEG SA2000M receivers used on many 'AMD-65s' now being sold. There is also some assembly of these in Hungary. It may be a group of ex-employees who perhaps bought out the machinery and parts at the end of FEG. It would be great if they managed to start making the P9 again but I don't see that happening.
If you can find a new or like-new PJK-9HP with the original polished-blue finish, you will be surprised at the depth and color of the bluing which is at least as good if not better than FN's. Unfortunately the polishing was not as good in some spots so you usually get machining marks here and there, but this is all in keeping with FEG's military heritage, having supplied Hungary and other nations' military and police weapons for about a century.
Here's my Browning 69C (top) and PJK-9HP.

Extremely well said and entirely true.

Here is a photo illustrating your point about the beautiful blue job on the FEG pistols. This is a P9 (PJK-9HP), the true BHP clone. I was lucky enough to find in unfired condition a year and a half ago and it is probably my favorite pistol of all. The grips are Herrett's Cocobolo grips and I have since replaced the small safety with a FEG safety from a Charles Daly Hi Power. Her she is:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj314/jaypee3843/PICT0070-1.jpg

This is a P9M (PJK-9HP) with the in house FEG slide stop arrangement. Another beautiful blue job.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj314/jaypee3843/PICT0401.jpg

Jer

If anybody is interested, there appears to be a NIB FP-9 on gunbroker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=193169100

A few years ago I had a FEG, but I sold it and regretted it ever since.





But then I found this and snapped it up.















Now I want to add an extended safety, remove the mag disconnect, and maybe add Novak sights...maybe.

I did exactly the same thing. You did very well. Beautiful pistol.

I read MilMatch's blog before and then exchanged a few emails with him after I bought the FEG P9M pictured below.  I got it on GB from Tenn. Guns Int'l who were one of the importers of the FEG hi-power copies and it is marked accordingly.  It was described as NIB old stock with box and all accessories except a magazine.  Apparently that was what kept the bidding from going very high

As you can see, it has a deep nearly black bluing.  It also has minimal machining marks and none of the sharp internal surfaces which are usually common in the FEGS.  It has the hi-power operating system and a slightly larger rear sight with a 3 dot system.  It also seems to be some sort of transitional model since it has the Browning style slide stop but also has the extended FEG designed safety rather than the tiny Browning one many dislike.  Jer has concluded this is yet another FEG anomaly and the third different variation bearing the P9M model number.

In addition, it has a spur hammer vice the typical ring hammer.



Interesting.

Tennessee Guns had another NIB P9M the consecutive S/N to mine (also w/o a magazine) on GB.  I was tempted, but held off so I had the money for something else.

For any of you gents who have an interest in the FEG Hi-Powers, we've been able to identify a couple of previously unknown FEG's at http://feghp.blogspot.com/

JayPee

Very cool!

MilMatch,

Great write up and info on your blog.  Any chance of some info on the FN marked FEG copies?  I acquired one last week and the more I inspect it, the more the history of it calls to me!

I've owned an FEG Hi-Power clone for a long time....mine I believe to be an earlier imported version...was a bit crude on the machine work. Had the front sight visably off-center on the slide.. cocking serrations on the left side were not cut very deep...front facet of the hammer was cut crooked/at a slant...

I milled a 1/4" dovetail where the sight went..and fitted a new front sight...delicately re-cut the left side serrations..and straightened up the hammer flats. Works great...aside from being a bit primitive to begin with.

Mine is KBI imported..a Model PJK-9HP....bought in the mid 1990's used..probably traded because the front sight was so horribly off-center..that the rear sight was drifted halfway off the slide to sight it in.

Later versions I've seen were much better looking..however my old crude one works fine. I wish I had picked up the Argentine clone when they were cheap.

Thank you for the kind words. I wish we could get some solid information on the counterfeit FN's made by FEG. But those guns were made while Hungary was still a Communist nation and member of the Warsaw Pact, and FEG was totally government controlled. So I doubt that, in view of this and FEG's demise in '04, that we'll ever see any authoritative work on the subject. About the only authoritative information I've seen on them is information on how to recognize them posted on gun forums by fellows who have researched their markings and characteristics. But authoritative historical information on the subject is rare-to-nonexistant as far as I know. Best wishes.

JayPee

Huh!!?....Paula Joe Kassner-9HP?

I thought it meant 'Pistol, Jacketed Kartridge-9High Power'.

Mine says 'K.B.I. ,INC. Harrisburg, PA' on the right-side slide. It is a true High Power clone..not equipped with a S&W type barrel system.

I figured it was an earlier version because it was so flawed...similiar FEG HP clones I had seen were much better finished out than mine...the badly off-center front sight in particular...Like a 'factory seconds'

Noy knocking the FEG...I love mine..and believe it or not traded off a MkIII High Power not too long after getting this one...This one just needed some attention to the front sight blade..and it's perfect in the shooting department....I would buy another in a heart-beat.

Me too. I have to stay off of GB or risk ruunning up my SDI (Sudden Divorce Index).  Every time I see one NIB I start trying to figure out a way to buy it. Best wishes.

MM

Having just bought a FEG pistol and being very happy with the purchase, I have to bump this thread because it contains a wealth of information about these guns.

This one for $249.95?  It appears to be a later one.  My P9M has the same slide markings and FEG extended safety, but has the original Browning style slide stop/release and a spur hammer.  This SOG one has the FEG style slide stop as well as (obviously) a ring hammer.
I'd like to see a good picture of the right side of the frame to be sure it has the crossbolt (indicating original Browning Hi-Power mechanicals) rather than the S&W system they later went to.

Is it just me, or does it look like there are two cross pins in the trigger of the pistol in the SOG photograph?

Nice pick up.  Might just be some sort of rollmark, but there's only one in mine:

For those following this very informative thread, here is a question:  since my purchase for cheap of a FEG HP clone I've become very interested in the pistol as a project gun.  After digging around in my parts box I came up with an unused C&S extended safety and a Mk II Browning High Power spur hammer.

Before rooting around in my new FEG, does anybody want to offer odds as to if these parts will work in the FEG?  I am waiting delivery of a set of punches and a bench block from Brownell's so I don't muck the pistol up, but have been wondering if the experiment of substitution of parts will work while I am waiting for the brown truck with my Brownell's box.

In any event, I shot the pistol yesterday and despite the famous humped feed ramp, it shot all manner of Gold Dots, flat-nosed Federal subsonic, WWB, Golden Saber, and several different shapes of bullet profile.  I did take the precaution of using Mec-Gar magazines, which are supposed to cure many feed ramp issues associated with the humped ramp.  I was hugely pleased with my new cheapo FEG.

Your thoughts on my upcoming parts swap are appreciated.  No telling when that brown truck will show up and it is go time.

This thread has me quite excited about ordering one of these from SOG!  I'm interested in hearing about the internal parts swaps.  On my BHP Mk III, I dumped the stock trigger for the wider one that Brownells sells and love it.  An added bonus is that is disposed of the magazine disconnect as well.

ETA:  I've got one on order from SOG and I'll post pics and review after I've had some quality range time.

MilMatch is the real expert, but I've found that (depending on the FEG) most HP parts will fit just fine, or with some minor tweaking.  My FN HP slide will fit just fine on my FP9, and I've used a C&S ambi safety on a different FEG with minimal problems.

Sorry gents, I have no experience at all in substituting Browning sears and hammers for FEG sears and hammers. It is very important to recognize that FEG's can be a little inconsistent in their manufacturing tolerances and you really need to proceed with caution in fitting someone else's hammers, sears, and safeties in them. Granted I have used a lot of Browning parts in my FEG's, including a C&S trigger made for the Browning Hi Power. But I'm not qualified to mess around with the fit of sears to hammer hooks and I have never done any of it in these guns or in any other. So if you decide to do it, proceed with caution and even get some professional advice.

You might consider using new FEG parts if they are still available at Numrich. Just go here: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=13062 and scroll down and see if they have the parts you need. Best of luck whichever way you decide to go.

MM

I'm looking at buying a PJK locally for $300.  It has the original grips, pachmyer wrap arounds (blechg), and two mags.

The plan is to try out the BHP platform, and if I take to it, trade it in on an FN a little down the road and have a few tasteful mods done to it (sights, safety, stippling, etc)

Does this sound like a decent price?  I still regret not picking up the FM Argentine for $199 with those nice slim wood grips pictured above at the same dealer last year.  I wanted the slim look of the BHP, and the FM did not have the cuts at the front of the slide and was a nasty painted-on finish.  The FEG is a nice polished blue and is truer to the original.  

I've been buying exclusively Glocks lately.  I need some steel in my life  Let me know what you guys think.  There is a much newer CZ-75B in the running for another $50 more along with a Turkish Beretta 92 clone for $100 more.

I hear people ranting and raving about CZ products, but have no experience with them so don't know what to say about that.  I'll also admit to being hugely biased, but I think your reasoning is sound and getting exposure to the BHP design at a reasonable price is a good idea.  

I paid about the same for my FEG and have been very pleased with it, considering it a good value even at $300. I immediately started swapping parts around and fiddling with it, which I enjoy a lot.  As an example, I never liked that ring hammer on the FEG, and instead put a spur hammer on it from the parts box.  

My vote is for the FEG.

I own an FEG-HP. Mine has been flawless from out-of-the-box. It feeds 115gr-147gr., FMJ and HP without issue. I don't shoot +P through it and I have read reports of "soft steal" but after more than 1000 rounds I have seen no indication of that. I shoot it with a Wolff x-tra power recoil spring. I have exchanged complete FN slides, mags, grips and springs without interchangeability issues. GREAT gun IMHO. I paid less tha $200 for it in 1998 after the sales tax and phone call.

Well, I got the PJK HP9.  What a fairly charming little pistol initial impression are very positive.  But the grips, sights, safety all have to go.  Especially the mag safety.  Trigger break is not bad at all.  Just that gritty slack to take up.  Honestly, not that different in mechanics than the Glock trigger that I do favor.  Just with grit and a longer reset.

I'm off to the range in the a.m.  I'll post impressions and the Obligatory pics after that.

Thanks for the good info folks!

update on my FEG PJK 9HP's first range-day......

Quote me on this if you'd like, a $300 hi-power clone is twice as good as a $600 1911 clone.  

250 rounds of mostly S&B and PPU ammo with a few dozen 124gr rem golden sabers went through it 100%  Shot very well, just a little to the left of POA (about 1.5" at 7 yards)  No jams or FTE.  MUCH better than expected. Accuracy was better than I could shoot.   Trigger is a little heavy, but I like the mechanics of the take-up and then the snap like my Glocks.  The reset was a little longish, but I can get used to that.  Rapid fire was pretty decent.  

I'm really liking this pistola so far  Now for some of those nice VZ rosewood grips.......


Some pics during breakfast before I hit the range....