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Posted: 3/13/2017 3:26:38 AM EDT
This was advertised as a gunsmith special on gunbroker and there isn't a single matching number on the gun, it has a 1950s slide, early 60s barrel and a late mk2 (1992) forged frame. I had my local smith do a brushed blue finish to it and it came out very nice indeed. The trigger is excellent and I haven't even bothered to remove the mag disconnect yet. I did put some nice aftermarket grips on it to replace the really beat up plastic ones not pictured, still need to do a bit of fitting but overall this one came out great.

from this:





to this!



Link Posted: 3/13/2017 3:38:37 AM EDT
[#1]
Amazing what a cleanup, nice finish, and nice grips can do.  Original pictures look like someone went magnet fishing off a bridge, last pictures look like new. Good rescue.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 5:06:36 AM EDT
[#2]
Damn that cleaned up nice!  Congrats!
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 6:48:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Very nice! Can you tell us what you spent?
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 7:02:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Very nice! Can you tell us what you spent?
View Quote
pistol was $350 plus shipping to my FFL/gunsmith, plus another $250 for the reblue.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 7:03:51 AM EDT
[#5]
That looks awesome. Did he do the blueing himself?

V
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 7:06:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That looks awesome. Did he do the blueing himself?

V
View Quote
that FFL is a full service gunsmith/SOT. They're about the best game in the state for 1911/BHP gunsmithing, plus they do just about anything anyone would want with ARs/Glocks/etc
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 8:07:53 AM EDT
[#7]
Very nice!
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 10:52:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Looks really nice. Where did you get the grips?
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 11:03:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Nice job. Love to see it when a classic comes back from the dead.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 11:18:49 AM EDT
[#10]
From what I can see here it looks like an FEG 'counterfeit' slide.

FEG made P9s (a near identical clone of the Pre-Mk II high power for middle eastern countries under an arms embargo.  Since they didn't want to make it obvious, they roll marked the slides with FN markings.   They all have B pre-fixes and 5 digit serials, although there is usually some space between the "B" and the number.

The slide also has the slight waviness that is common on FEGs, although it could also be an artifact of less than perfect polish in the refinish.

Not that it matters in the least, it's still a nice looking Hi Power.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 11:56:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Wow!  Excellent save.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 3:00:24 PM EDT
[#12]
like how he did the edges
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 3:42:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From what I can see here it looks like an FEG 'counterfeit' slide.

FEG made P9s (a near identical clone of the Pre-Mk II high power for middle eastern countries under an arms embargo.  Since they didn't want to make it obvious, they roll marked the slides with FN markings.   They all have B pre-fixes and 5 digit serials, although there is usually some space between the "B" and the number.

The slide also has the slight waviness that is common on FEGs, although it could also be an artifact of less than perfect polish in the refinish.

Not that it matters in the least, it's still a nice looking Hi Power
View Quote
you honestly think that FEG made slides with internal extractors? I've never seen one, and I doubt they ever did. Please note that there's no letter prefix to the s/n on the slide or the one piece barrel for that matter. I'm sure the waviness is due to my gunsmith trying to remove pits more than anything else. BTW, I've had a couple of FEGs, I even made a franken hi power with an FN/Browning slide and FEG frame/barrel with all FN internals I scrounged at Sarco back when they were in NJ. I've had several people look at it and think it's a factory gun. yes, the s/n on the frame and barrel is a dead giveaway that they're FEG parts, but the slide is authentic since I bought it used for $40 from a local gunshop back in the day along with some other factory Browning slides. BTW, I kept the frankenhipower over a few factory P35s since it had a better trigger and was more accurate, plus I have about $225 into it total since I got more for the FEG slide than I paid for the browning slide and herrett grips. BTW, that gun in original condition cost me $175 at a pawn shop.

Link Posted: 3/13/2017 3:57:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks really nice. Where did you get the grips?
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Thanks, I got the grips from Sarco, they were very inexpensive and required more fitting than I'm used to since hi power grips usually drop right in, but for the price $17.50, they'll do until I can find a decent pair of original grips.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 4:41:50 PM EDT
[#15]
btw, thanks to all for all the nice comments, I'm super happy with how this one came out. I have another Izzy surplus P35 that I left ugly, but it's a mk2.5 with the narrow sight rib, put the newly reintroduced uncle mikes grips now made by budsgunshop. That one is destined for a threaded barrel at some point.

Link Posted: 3/13/2017 5:59:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Looks fantastic. I'm on the fence about doing a similar refresh, this is real encouraging!
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 6:44:33 PM EDT
[#17]
That was a very good job they did, but I kinda like ugly ducklings.




Link Posted: 3/13/2017 8:58:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks, I got the grips from Sarco, they were very inexpensive and required more fitting than I'm used to since hi power grips usually drop right in, but for the price $17.50, they'll do until I can find a decent pair of original grips.
View Quote
I've been on a casual hunt for some original Hi Power grips for awhile. They come up from time to time, but are very pricey. I may just have to settle for a reasonable replica version. Those are around for about $50 or so.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 10:30:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From what I can see here it looks like an FEG 'counterfeit' slide....
View Quote

FEG never produced HP's with an internal extractor or "thumbprint.
Link Posted: 3/13/2017 11:18:26 PM EDT
[#20]
It's funny, I hear from time to time about how "delicate" old Hi-Power frames and slides are and yet I see time after time guys like you rescue those old parts and make great looking and performing shooters out of them. That looks like a really great rescue, congrats!
Link Posted: 3/14/2017 5:27:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That was a very good job they did, but I kinda like ugly ducklings.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/johnrippert/40sBHP1_zpsc9bc7231.jpg
View Quote
agreed, and I love yours, I just wanted to have a nice looking one for this particular example. Plus I have a more or less correct slide for the 1992 vintage frame that will get novak sights and a modern barrel.
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 12:16:36 AM EDT
[#22]
finally got a chance to fire it yesterday at a friends house, and it performed flawlessly. It ate everything I put through it, including old  wolf steel case ball, crap lead reloads, hornady xtp 115gr and federal hydrashock 124gr. I took a look at the feed ramp and it looks like the Israelis removed the hump which explains why it functioned so well.
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 12:41:12 AM EDT
[#23]
That came out awesome 
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 1:07:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 9:55:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
finally got a chance to fire it yesterday at a friends house, and it performed flawlessly. It ate everything I put through it, including old  wolf steel case ball, crap lead reloads, hornady xtp 115gr and federal hydrashock 124gr. I took a look at the feed ramp and it looks like the Israelis removed the hump which explains why it functioned so well.
View Quote
I know the pre Mk II humped feed ramp has a reputation for poor reliability with hollow points, but in my experience with 3 personally owned FEG Hi Powers to date, all of them fed Hornady XTP and Remington Golden Saber hollow points with zero failures to feed.

From that I've concluded that the FEG's humped feed ramp feeds at least some hollow points quite well and/or the criticism of the Pre- Mk II FN style feed ramp is over blown.
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 10:13:48 AM EDT
[#26]
very nice!
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 10:32:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's funny, I hear from time to time about how "delicate" old Hi-Power frames and slides are and yet I see time after time guys like you rescue those old parts and make great looking and performing shooters out of them. That looks like a really great rescue, congrats!
View Quote
I think the "delicate" comments come from two perspectives:

-  the Hi Power is significantly smaller than pistols like the Beretta 92 - which is quite frankly much larger than a 9mm handgun should be or needs to be; and
- the SAS had a habit of using 9 mm Mark IIz sub machine gun ammunition in their Hi Powers rather than the standard 9mm Mk Iz ammo and had some issues with cracks at the lower rear of the ejection port.

The Mk III has more metal in this area, but it needs to be noted that the cracks in the SAS issued Hi Powers were in very old military Hi Powers that had extremely high round counts with the hot loaded SMG ammo, while using the standard 17 pound recoil spring.   In short, yes, you can crack a Pre-MK II Hi Power, but you'll have to spend an awful lot of money on hot loaded ammo to do it.  

----

The newer cast frames are stronger and are well suited to 9mm +P use, but it's not a big deal for the older Hi Powers either.  The cast frames used on the Mk III Hi Powers were an outgrowth of development of the Hi Power for use with the .40 S&W, but the older forged Hi Power frames are plenty strong enough for 9mm Para and, with some caveats, 9mm +P loads.  

The potential issue with 9mm +P loads is that the cam in the Hi Power can eventually break if too a light a recoil spring is used.  In addition, a recoil spring that is too light results in the slide unlocking too quickly, which leads to rounding of the locking lugs in the slide and barrel, just like it does in a 1911 (and no one calls a 1911 "delicate").  

Consequently, if you choose to shoot a Hi Power with 9mm +P loads, it's a good idea to put in a heavier 18.5 pound recoil spring.   Like any pistol, a steady diet of +P loads will accelerate wear, but it's not going to break a Hi Power, particularly with an 18.5 pound recoil spring.

A related issue with 9mm +P and older Hi Powers is that many Hi Power shooters install a 26 pound hammer spring in place of the standard 32 pound hammer spring in order to improve the trigger pull.  They do that because the hammer spring weight was increased from 26 to 32 pounds in 1975 - not long after the SAAMI 9mm +P standard was adopted.   Having an older 26 pound hammer spring or installing a lighter one in a newer Hi Power is a problem with 9mm +P ammo as it is not just the recoil spring that slows the unlocking of the slide, but also the force required for the slide to cock the hammer, particularly in the first bit of reward motion of the slide.  

Not all +P ammo is the same either - some are friendlier than others.

The Remington 124 gr Golden Saber +P  and Speer 124 gr Gold Dot +P  both feed well in Hi Powers and both have a velocity of about 1200 fps, which doesn't beat up the Hi Power.  Thus they make good choices for a self defense found if an agency plans to put large numbers of them through a Hi Power.   Remington's 115 gr JHP +P has a velocity of  1250 fps in a Hi Power and is also very Hi Power friendly.

The standard pressure 124 gr Gold Dot gives up about 100 fps in a Hi Power while the standard pressure 124 gr Golden Saber is only about 70 fps slower than it's +P counterpart, so yu don't lose much going with a standard pressure round.

The Federal 115 gr JHP also feeds well in Hi powers and has a velocity around 1170 fps in a Hi Power.

The 124 gr XTP also feeds well in the Hi Power and doesn't need +P velocities to get reliable expansion and penetration.  

----

There's also the issue of how most military issue handguns are actually used.   They exist primarily to provide a self defense weapon to rear echelon troops.  Most get carried very little and get shot even less.  Wear tends to come in the form of stupidity/abuse (pounding tent pegs, etc) and neglect, rather than actual wear.  It's not uncommon to find one of these surplus FEG pistols that is rough on the outside but shows little wear from actual use on the inside.   They make great candidates for re-bluing.  

-----

It's worth noting that the Israeli Hi Powers being imported include:

1) FN made military Hi Powers acquired as post WWII surplus by Israel;  
2) FN made Hi Powers purchased by Israel;
3) FEG made "counterfeit" Hi Powers that FEG roll marked as FN Hi Powers (but using FEG B range serial numbers) for sale to counties like Syria that were under an arms embargo, some of which were subsequently captured and used by Israel;
4) FEG made Hi Powers purchased by Israel; and
5) "Kareem" marked Hi Powers which were finished, assembled and inspected in Israel using FEG supplied parts.
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 3:04:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Looks good.  I probably would've just slapped some hogues on it and shot it.  
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 6:21:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I think the "delicate" comments come from two perspectives:

-  the Hi Power is significantly smaller than pistols like the Beretta 92 - which is quite frankly much larger than a 9mm handgun should be or needs to be; and
- the SAS had a habit of using 9 mm Mark IIz sub machine gun ammunition in their Hi Powers rather than the standard 9mm Mk Iz ammo and had some issues with cracks at the lower rear of the ejection port.

The Mk III has more metal in this area, but it needs to be noted that the cracks in the SAS issued Hi Powers were in very old military Hi Powers that had extremely high round counts with the hot loaded SMG ammo, while using the standard 17 pound recoil spring.   In short, yes, you can crack a Pre-MK II Hi Power, but you'll have to spend an awful lot of money on hot loaded ammo to do it.  

----

The newer cast frames are stronger and are well suited to 9mm +P use, but it's not a big deal for the older Hi Powers either.  The cast frames used on the Mk III Hi Powers were an outgrowth of development of the Hi Power for use with the .40 S&W, but the older forged Hi Power frames are plenty strong enough for 9mm Para and, with some caveats, 9mm +P loads.  

The potential issue with 9mm +P loads is that the cam in the Hi Power can eventually break if too a light a recoil spring is used.  In addition, a recoil spring that is too light results in the slide unlocking too quickly, which leads to rounding of the locking lugs in the slide and barrel, just like it does in a 1911 (and no one calls a 1911 "delicate").  

Consequently, if you choose to shoot a Hi Power with 9mm +P loads, it's a good idea to put in a heavier 18.5 pound recoil spring.   Like any pistol, a steady diet of +P loads will accelerate wear, but it's not going to break a Hi Power, particularly with an 18.5 pound recoil spring.

A related issue with 9mm +P and older Hi Powers is that many Hi Power shooters install a 26 pound hammer spring in place of the standard 32 pound hammer spring in order to improve the trigger pull.  They do that because the hammer spring weight was increased from 26 to 32 pounds in 1975 - not long after the SAAMI 9mm +P standard was adopted.   Having an older 26 pound hammer spring or installing a lighter one in a newer Hi Power is a problem with 9mm +P ammo as it is not just the recoil spring that slows the unlocking of the slide, but also the force required for the slide to cock the hammer, particularly in the first bit of reward motion of the slide.  

Not all +P ammo is the same either - some are friendlier than others.

The Remington 124 gr Golden Saber +P  and Speer 124 gr Gold Dot +P  both feed well in Hi Powers and both have a velocity of about 1200 fps, which doesn't beat up the Hi Power.  Thus they make good choices for a self defense found if an agency plans to put large numbers of them through a Hi Power.   Remington's 115 gr JHP +P has a velocity of  1250 fps in a Hi Power and is also very Hi Power friendly.

The standard pressure 124 gr Gold Dot gives up about 100 fps in a Hi Power while the standard pressure 124 gr Golden Saber is only about 70 fps slower than it's +P counterpart, so yu don't lose much going with a standard pressure round.

The Federal 115 gr JHP also feeds well in Hi powers and has a velocity around 1170 fps in a Hi Power.

The 124 gr XTP also feeds well in the Hi Power and doesn't need +P velocities to get reliable expansion and penetration.  

----

There's also the issue of how most military issue handguns are actually used.   They exist primarily to provide a self defense weapon to rear echelon troops.  Most get carried very little and get shot even less.  Wear tends to come in the form of stupidity/abuse (pounding tent pegs, etc) and neglect, rather than actual wear.  It's not uncommon to find one of these surplus FEG pistols that is rough on the outside but shows little wear from actual use on the inside.   They make great candidates for re-bluing.  

-----

It's worth noting that the Israeli Hi Powers being imported include:

1) FN made military Hi Powers acquired as post WWII surplus by Israel;  
2) FN made Hi Powers purchased by Israel;
3) FEG made "counterfeit" Hi Powers that FEG roll marked as FN Hi Powers (but using FEG B range serial numbers) for sale to counties like Syria that were under an arms embargo, some of which were subsequently captured and used by Israel;
4) FEG made Hi Powers purchased by Israel; and
5) "Kareem" marked Hi Powers which were finished, assembled and inspected in Israel using FEG supplied parts.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's funny, I hear from time to time about how "delicate" old Hi-Power frames and slides are and yet I see time after time guys like you rescue those old parts and make great looking and performing shooters out of them. That looks like a really great rescue, congrats!
I think the "delicate" comments come from two perspectives:

-  the Hi Power is significantly smaller than pistols like the Beretta 92 - which is quite frankly much larger than a 9mm handgun should be or needs to be; and
- the SAS had a habit of using 9 mm Mark IIz sub machine gun ammunition in their Hi Powers rather than the standard 9mm Mk Iz ammo and had some issues with cracks at the lower rear of the ejection port.

The Mk III has more metal in this area, but it needs to be noted that the cracks in the SAS issued Hi Powers were in very old military Hi Powers that had extremely high round counts with the hot loaded SMG ammo, while using the standard 17 pound recoil spring.   In short, yes, you can crack a Pre-MK II Hi Power, but you'll have to spend an awful lot of money on hot loaded ammo to do it.  

----

The newer cast frames are stronger and are well suited to 9mm +P use, but it's not a big deal for the older Hi Powers either.  The cast frames used on the Mk III Hi Powers were an outgrowth of development of the Hi Power for use with the .40 S&W, but the older forged Hi Power frames are plenty strong enough for 9mm Para and, with some caveats, 9mm +P loads.  

The potential issue with 9mm +P loads is that the cam in the Hi Power can eventually break if too a light a recoil spring is used.  In addition, a recoil spring that is too light results in the slide unlocking too quickly, which leads to rounding of the locking lugs in the slide and barrel, just like it does in a 1911 (and no one calls a 1911 "delicate").  

Consequently, if you choose to shoot a Hi Power with 9mm +P loads, it's a good idea to put in a heavier 18.5 pound recoil spring.   Like any pistol, a steady diet of +P loads will accelerate wear, but it's not going to break a Hi Power, particularly with an 18.5 pound recoil spring.

A related issue with 9mm +P and older Hi Powers is that many Hi Power shooters install a 26 pound hammer spring in place of the standard 32 pound hammer spring in order to improve the trigger pull.  They do that because the hammer spring weight was increased from 26 to 32 pounds in 1975 - not long after the SAAMI 9mm +P standard was adopted.   Having an older 26 pound hammer spring or installing a lighter one in a newer Hi Power is a problem with 9mm +P ammo as it is not just the recoil spring that slows the unlocking of the slide, but also the force required for the slide to cock the hammer, particularly in the first bit of reward motion of the slide.  

Not all +P ammo is the same either - some are friendlier than others.

The Remington 124 gr Golden Saber +P  and Speer 124 gr Gold Dot +P  both feed well in Hi Powers and both have a velocity of about 1200 fps, which doesn't beat up the Hi Power.  Thus they make good choices for a self defense found if an agency plans to put large numbers of them through a Hi Power.   Remington's 115 gr JHP +P has a velocity of  1250 fps in a Hi Power and is also very Hi Power friendly.

The standard pressure 124 gr Gold Dot gives up about 100 fps in a Hi Power while the standard pressure 124 gr Golden Saber is only about 70 fps slower than it's +P counterpart, so yu don't lose much going with a standard pressure round.

The Federal 115 gr JHP also feeds well in Hi powers and has a velocity around 1170 fps in a Hi Power.

The 124 gr XTP also feeds well in the Hi Power and doesn't need +P velocities to get reliable expansion and penetration.  

----

There's also the issue of how most military issue handguns are actually used.   They exist primarily to provide a self defense weapon to rear echelon troops.  Most get carried very little and get shot even less.  Wear tends to come in the form of stupidity/abuse (pounding tent pegs, etc) and neglect, rather than actual wear.  It's not uncommon to find one of these surplus FEG pistols that is rough on the outside but shows little wear from actual use on the inside.   They make great candidates for re-bluing.  

-----

It's worth noting that the Israeli Hi Powers being imported include:

1) FN made military Hi Powers acquired as post WWII surplus by Israel;  
2) FN made Hi Powers purchased by Israel;
3) FEG made "counterfeit" Hi Powers that FEG roll marked as FN Hi Powers (but using FEG B range serial numbers) for sale to counties like Syria that were under an arms embargo, some of which were subsequently captured and used by Israel;
4) FEG made Hi Powers purchased by Israel; and
5) "Kareem" marked Hi Powers which were finished, assembled and inspected in Israel using FEG supplied parts.
excellent post. both of the izzy returns I got were 100% FN, although the one pictured in my initial post is a serious mixmaster.
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 6:28:06 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 9:11:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Very nice. I have an '85 Israeli that is on the back burner for now. Will get new Novak sights and a cerakote burnt bronze/black controls with VZ grips eventually. 
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